Petrol Price crisis......

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Check out something called the 'heat island effect' - its a problem in outer Western Sydney and also Western suburbs in Melbourne like Tarneit where you have tons of houses jam packed in together, lots of concrete and no green spaces.

Even things like orientation of houses being wrong, then trying to fight nature with things like triple glazed windows, makes the house more expensive to build and then you spent a heap on heating and cooling.

This is Tarneit satellite view - notice hardly anyone has solar panels either on all these new houses:

image

Funny how its always the West in both Melbourne and Sydney, no one cares about the reffos, cheap and nasty houses on tiny blocks for all our mechanical engineers working as Uber/courier drivers

Then because everyone uses more energy on heating and cooling their crappily designed and placed houses, we have 'energy shortages'

I live in the middle of nowhere out on the regional fringe of Melbourne, you can see the difference in planning laws/legislation taking effect, guess where the old part of town is and the new estates are in the below satellite photo:

image

There's a problem and its on the legislation side.

Those places are worst than a big "cheek by gal" caravan parks, less than 2 foot apart, no front yards, little back yard. At least in a C.park you can move.

Just one big heat sink in Summer and tomorrows slums.

There is a good book called "Winning back the Cities" ihough it's more geared (sic) towards a local cycling future but looks at and has some good answers towards more livable cities with community living amongst green corridors and properly designed public transport hubs which actually connect with each other.

[roKWiz]

Again another good reason to use Jatropha.



I remember going through all the requirements to apply for import of the seed here for a personally crop back before this video was posted in 2010 but good ol Govco computer said NO.

And here we are still scratching out nuts (no pun)

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Get Hinge going on your phone and look at all the over-extended 30-somethings looking for someone to shout them overseas holidays and expensive clothes, or the other side who have financed Ranger Raptors with a penchant for $300 a pop nose beers, was at a pub in the CBD a few weeks ago and people were indulging in the nose beers freely in the gents and someone in the middle of the gaming floor at the casino and its not the typical high flyers either

You're on the money - live within your social class, I don't exist on paper because I've paid cash for all my toys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpE9rXSloyk

[Sprintey]

The only thing that could make those heat islands better is siting meteorological stations in them. Don't laugh, it's what they've done.

[Sprintey]

related to self sufficiency, good little thread on why you might want to keep a decent manufacturing footprint

https://twitter.com/WarintheFuture/s...35853860118528

Oz leaders, facepalm

[M&Ms]

I just came back from Singapore, premium petrol is currently $3.80 per litre at the moment. Count ourselves somewhat lucky I guess.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

SA had capabilities to manufacture high quality biodiesel - refer this post:

https://fordforums.com.au/showpost.p...postcount=1479

So it obviously can be done, just needs to be political will which I doubt we'll find due to the nature of the political donations and short sighted nature of our political class.

Diesel is way more important than unleaded I reckon, the price of diesel effects everything where as unleaded basically effects you getting to/from work.

Yep diesel is more important, but you can use the ethanol to cut the oils you grow for the diesel, about 20/80 iirc reading 'From the fryer to the fuel tank'. That it also provides personal transport is even better

Crops like the Jatropha, great idea, we are going to have to do this stuff ourselves, looking to authorities for direction will be a long, long stare...

[ivorya]

I think a much better way of Bio farming would be Algae. It started the oil in the 1st place!

1kg of Algae consumes 1.8kg C02 per day
1 acre Maple Forrest consumes 2.2kg per day.

Fill some old mines with favourable conditions and your favourite algae and away you go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZKbyXCrTG8

[Sprintey]

Yes true, it's mentioned as the crop beyond any plant based oil sources. US researched it a lot in 2000s... How to get the CO2 into the algae quickly at scale? Once all the land next to industry (wot industry?) is taken

[Sprintey]

US Navy synthesises jet fuel out of seawater

https://www.zmescience.com/research/...water-0423432/

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

US Navy synthesises jet fuel out of seawater

https://www.zmescience.com/research/...water-0423432/

That was in 2014, so how come it hasn't taken off?

BTW. I think that Jatropha is a noxious weed in some states, so I can't see that being popular.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

That was in 2014, so how come it hasn't taken off?

BTW. I think that Jatropha is a noxious weed in some states, so I can't see that being popular.

Is on the ****list in WA:

https://www.agric.wa.gov.au/declared...-declared-pest

Frowned upon in QLD and NT

Not tolerant to frost - unlikely to survive in NSW and on their ****list too:

https://weeds.dpi.nsw.gov.au/Weeds/BellyacheBush

Must not be imported into the state, sold, bartered, exchanged or offered for sale.

Also banned in SA

Can't find anything for VIC but she's on the ****list far and wide nationally.

[Franco Cozzo]

Rokwiz, even though you run your trucks on WVO, have you tried making biodiesel out of it and running that? You'd need methanol and sodium hydroxide, then get rid of the glycerine out of it, if you wanted to make soap from the leftover glycerine you'd probably need to boil the methanol out of it first, not sure if there's a market for methanol soap

It wouldn't have the viscosity issues that WVO has, gel point would depend on what the WVO was.

Would be interesting to get your trucks over to an emissions lab, if we could go back in time a decade we could have done it for free at my auto TAFE before they fired the only teacher certified to use their emissions lab

Now its privatised and you pay like $1500-$2250 for a 5 minute test.

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Is on the ****list in WA:

https://www.agric.wa.gov.au/declared...-declared-pest

Frowned upon in QLD and NT

Not tolerant to frost - unlikely to survive in NSW and on their ****list too:

https://weeds.dpi.nsw.gov.au/Weeds/BellyacheBush



Also banned in SA

Can't find anything for VIC but she's on the ****list far and wide nationally.

I wish the chop-chop growers would start padding their wares out with Paterson’s Curse. It would assist a big problem.

Between the doom-mongering of $20000 road trip cars and climbing fuel prices, I really feel like a road trip in one of my shoestring-budget cars. Ideally still on a five year old battery.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

BTW. I think that Jatropha is a noxious weed in some states, so I can't see that being popular.

Gee wiz, how convenient what a surprise. Yeah we wouldn't want a potential future fuel to get in the way of good rabbit breeding country.

Hurdles Franco, there's your answer as to why I run used veggie oil.
Why would anyone put themselves through wasting their time with officialdom.

[kevino]

I hope you dont run that 6v53 on veg oil.
Thats precious now...(the 6v53) and rare.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by kevino

I hope you dont run that 6v53 on veg oil.
Thats precious now...(the 6v53) and rare.

Downloadable PDF is a great bedtime read......

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...76610215027964

In conclusion......The results of this study show that
1 biodiesel has the potential to reduce emissions from 2-stroke Diesel engine
2 It can be used in this engine without modification

Have run it to B50 with no harmful effects along with the 903 V8 Cummins.

Cummins does like to smoke more when cold but that's a trait of all VT903's.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Downloadable PDF is a great bedtime read......

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...76610215027964

In conclusion......The results of this study show that
1 biodiesel has the potential to reduce emissions from 2-stroke Diesel engine
2 It can be used in this engine without modification

Have run it to B50 with no harmful effects along with the 903 V8 Cummins.

Cummins does like to smoke more when cold but that's a trait of all VT903's.

Rokwiz is the original environmentalist, before they lived in huge concrete towers in the inner suburbs, used trains powered by brown coal and brought plastic cups to their baristas shipped from China by a big *** ship burning heavy fuel oil

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Is on the ****list in WA:

https://www.agric.wa.gov.au/declared...-declared-pest

Frowned upon in QLD and NT

Not tolerant to frost - unlikely to survive in NSW and on their ****list too:

https://weeds.dpi.nsw.gov.au/Weeds/BellyacheBush



Also banned in SA

Can't find anything for VIC but she's on the ****list far and wide nationally.

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Gee wiz, how convenient what a surprise. Yeah we wouldn't want a potential future fuel to get in the way of good rabbit breeding country.

Hurdles Franco, there's your answer as to why I run used veggie oil.
Why would anyone put themselves through wasting their time with officialdom.

The devils weed! The devils weed I say! It will melt your mind! (Read: give you transportation freedom)

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Rokwiz is the original environmentalist, before they lived in huge concrete towers in the inner suburbs, used trains powered by brown coal and brought plastic cups to their baristas shipped from China by a big *** ship burning heavy fuel oil

hehe, the correlation between electorates voting green and % of land as concrete in said electorate

[kevino]

A company I worked for in Auckland back
In 2005/2007 we’re running biodiesel.
Seem to remember there were issues with biodiesel and cold weather
Rockwiz?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kevino

A company I worked for in Auckland back
In 2005/2007 we’re running biodiesel.
Seem to remember there were issues with biodiesel and cold weather
Rockwiz?

Depends on the feedstock you use to make biodiesel effects the gel point of the final product.

Biodiesel itself is a broad term that describes the family of Mono Alkyl Esters which vary in properties depending on which fatty acid they are derived from.

For example, Tallow methyl ester (which we made) has a very high energy density, high cetane, does not gel above 0degC, high lubricity, low viscosity and has lower particulate emissions than petro diesel.

Canola methyl ester (which we also made but was expensive) has a lower energy density, high cetane, does not gel above minus 20decC, lower lubricity, lower viscosity and low particulate emissions.

Palm Oil methyl ester (is made in indonesia) has lower energy density, low viscosity, does not gel above 10degC, lower cetane, lower lubricity and has low particulate emission.

Commercially made biodiesel is an extremely pure fuel which allows far higher engine performance than petro-diesel which we proved in trials with diesel powered metro trains and the new (at the time) euro5 Scania metro buses. The uniform molecular size and shape also means the lubricity of pure biodiesel is superior to petro diesel. (think synthetic oil vs mineral oil) A lot of this benefit is still seen at B20 (20% biodiesel). At B5, not much benefit is left.

There you go, from another community.

Canola derived biodiesel doesn't gel under minus 20 degrees C

WVO (that roKWiz uses in his trucks) and biodiesel are two different fuels, basically biodiesel is a process later, its more refined, you can make biodiesel from WVO with some processing using methanol and sodium hydroxide/potassium hydroxide depending on how keen you are playing science experiments at home.

Or in his case you can just get waste vegetable oil, filter the crap out of it and either run it straight or mix it with normal diesel in varying degrees depending on the temperature and how keen your injection pump and injectors are on higher viscosity liquids.

Older diesels no dramas, all the oldskool indirect injection stuff would tolerate it, but anything modern like common rail with their injectors with multiple fine holes creating a very specific spray pattern and massive fuel pressures, one imagines it wouldn't survive very long being fed WVO.

[Franco Cozzo]

There's also people running separate fuel tanks for WVO, separate fuel lines, heat exchangers et al, car starts on regular diesel first, once engine is up to running temperature they switch over to WVO now the heat exchanger is warm and has warmed up the WVO tank/fuel lines.

I saw someone doing this with a glow plug to warm up the WVO in the lines, not a bad method doesn't rely on coolant traveling around the car outside of the cooling circuit.

Given current prices, surely commercial B100 that can be used in modern diesels would be worth considering firing up again?

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by kevino

A company I worked for in Auckland back
In 2005/2007 we’re running biodiesel.
Seem to remember there were issues with biodiesel and cold weather
Rockwiz?

Yes there are issues in really cold weather when the engine is first fired up if you are stupid enough to run straight veggie oil (SVO which was the common term back then, don't know why they call it WVO as Franco uses) in winter without having some sort of pre heaters built into the fuel pipes or tank.

As stated if you read back and going along with what Franco posted.

In Summer my trucks run B90 that is 90% used super finely screened cooking oil with 10% diesel added. The diesel will always stop the problem of gelling and algae on an occasional cold summer morning start.

Before the middle of Winter I'll blend a mix of 50% used cooking oil, 10% Kerosene and 40% diesel. (sometimes the blend is reversed and 40% used oil and 50% diesel) Kerosene is added to fuel around the alps areas here anyway (farming winter mix) in Winter.
Mid seasons the blend will change to B60 60/40 veggie oil /diesel mix.

All the veggie oil I have used so far is from 2 local cafe's, pick it up in 20ltrs drums and is screened filtered several times before blending at the Summer base figure of B90, then stored in 3 separate diesel tanks.

I found all along the Hume and Pacific Hwy corridors, several small town communities dabbling in the voodoo art of Biodiesel where it could be purchased from them to allow travel all up and down the Eastcoast.
The reason I always use some measure of diesel in the blend and have never used straight veggie oil is I'm not keen on needing fuel heating modifications to the fuel systems in them. (apart from replacing all flexible rubber hoses and secondary added filters)

Just adding in here its used in my 2 cylinder Nanni yacht engine as well as a 8Kva genset and heating our little offgrid house.

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by kevino

A company I worked for in Auckland back
In 2005/2007 we’re running biodiesel.
Seem to remember there were issues with biodiesel and cold weather
Rockwiz?

Z fuel company in NZ spent millions setting up a plant and was only moth balled last year it was planned to have 5,10, and i think as high as 20% mixes it was a biofuel made from tallow i think , but as said there were problems even at 5% settling out in tanks in cold weather

fonterra ran it in north island sites but in testing it sounds like economy was adversely affected

A lot of people had said that Tallow wouldnt work ....they had all these fancy chemists develop it but sometimes things dont pan out in reality

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by PooDog

Z fuel company in NZ spent millions setting up a plant and was only moth balled last year it was planned to have 5,10, and i think as high as 20% mixes it was a biofuel made from tallow i think , but as said there were problems even at 5% settling out in tanks in cold weather

fonterra ran it in north island sites but in testing it sounds like economy was adversely affected

A lot of people had said that Tallow wouldnt work ....they had all these fancy chemists develop it but sometimes things dont pan out in reality

Never liked the idea of tallow, would imagine it being a thick substance from the start unlike veggie oil. I'd reckon NZ would be to cold (even the Nth Island) to be running low blends like that year round. Commercially you wouldn't see the benefits for years anyway so it well understood companies are reluctant to do it.
Reasonably successful plant here only recently closed due to no ongoing support from Govco.
The diesel engine will take a while to become cleaned from soots and will need plenty of filter changes when freshly converted. The power will be lower until the internals start to clean themselves. The power always returns stronger.

[kevino]

Rockwiz
Smart operating!!
With diesel around $2.15 here on the Gc and some where round that in Vic you must be saving ****loads of money.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Yes there are issues in really cold weather when the engine is first fired up if you are stupid enough to run straight veggie oil (SVO which was the common term back then, don't know why they call it WVO as Franco uses) in winter without having some sort of pre heaters built into the fuel pipes or tank.

WVO - waste vegetable oil
SVO - straight vegetable oil

They can be used interchangeably I guess but the way I look at it WVO nails it down to used cooking oil.

Check out this setup, this is better than the water/fuel heat exchanger idea I reckon



Basically a fuel sump made out of cast plumbing fittings with a temperature controlled glow plug to heat up WVO on its way to the engine, would cut down your switch over time if running 100% WVO.

Because of the viscosity of WVO, a diesel lift pump like a Walbro FRB51 (or FRB21 if 24V) would work mint I reckon.

https://www.walbro.com/fr-series-fue...ing-fuel-pump/

https://www.walbro.com/fr-series-fue...ing-fuel-pump/

These series of lift pumps are designed for longevity and ****ty fuel, and are available locally, perfect.

I had issues on ambulances with the rear cabin heater doing SFA in VIC winter, what happened was by the time the coolant went from the engine, to the heater in the rear of the van it had already lost a lot of its heat on the way there through the hoses, so it was basically blowing cold air, rendered it absolutely useless at idle, it sort of worked at higher engine speeds but it wasn't much chop. It was solved by ****ing off the heater core for a diesel heater in the back, now it works mint year round and instantly.

I reckon you'd have the same issue with relying on engine coolant to heat fuel lines or through a heat exchanger setup at the tank end, maybe not so much if it was in the engine bay though with a shorter run but warming the fuel lines like I've seen other setups do wouldn't be ideal.

The glow plug idea with the controller is mint, you don't need to plumb coolant lines around the car or increase the volume of the cooling system either, nor wait for the coolant to come up to temperature to warm everything up before switching to WVO - its a lot easier to run wires to a glow plug.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by kevino

Rockwiz
Smart operating!!
With diesel around $2.15 here on the Gc and some where round that in Vic you must be saving ****loads of money.

Ta. Did it years ago but it was never about saving money.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

WVO - waste vegetable oil
SVO - straight vegetable oil

They can be used interchangeably I guess but the way I look at it WVO nails it down to used cooking oil.

Check out this setup, this is better than the water/fuel heat exchanger idea I reckon



Basically a fuel sump made out of cast plumbing fittings with a temperature controlled glow plug to heat up WVO on its way to the engine, would cut down your switch over time if running 100% WVO.

Because of the viscosity of WVO, a diesel lift pump like a Walbro FRB51 (or FRB21 if 24V) would work mint I reckon.

https://www.walbro.com/fr-series-fue...ing-fuel-pump/

https://www.walbro.com/fr-series-fue...ing-fuel-pump/

These series of lift pumps are designed for longevity and ****ty fuel, and are available locally, perfect.

I had issues on ambulances with the rear cabin heater doing SFA in VIC winter, what happened was by the time the coolant went from the engine, to the heater in the rear of the van it had already lost a lot of its heat on the way there through the hoses, so it was basically blowing cold air, rendered it absolutely useless at idle, it sort of worked at higher engine speeds but it wasn't much chop. It was solved by ****ing off the heater core for a diesel heater in the back, now it works mint year round and instantly.

I reckon you'd have the same issue with relying on engine coolant to heat fuel lines or through a heat exchanger setup at the tank end, maybe not so much if it was in the engine bay though with a shorter run but warming the fuel lines like I've seen other setups do wouldn't be ideal.

The glow plug idea with the controller is mint, you don't need to plumb coolant lines around the car or increase the volume of the cooling system either, nor wait for the coolant to come up to temperature to warm everything up before switching to WVO - its a lot easier to run wires to a glow plug.

Run a bit of diesel with it and it solves all those problems.

I was subscribed to Renew magazine for years which featured great articles on all things bio. Seemed at the time the obvious way this country would go but we have an agenda.
Quarter filled the little truck diesel tank today in Benalla @ $2.12 pl which was added to the all ready three quarter tank of the home brewed B90 added yesterday.
Started 2nd go this morning so not as cold.