Australia’s First F-35 on the Go

[BHDOGS]

6 dollars for the doctor pay up!! couple of jets no worry mates heres 12 billion.

[Charliewool]

Yes indeedy.... 12 BILLION is a LOT of hospital beds, or Dr visits eh?
How bout we only buy 56 or 57 fighters, then with the change buy 8 or 10 Elvis fire-fighting helicopters for our summer threat? (That'd make too much sense though)

This 12 Bil purchase also seems totally at odds with all expert opinion on what fighter we should buy?
Methinks more than ONE Grange Hermitage has changed hands to seal the deal?

[Bucknaked]

The RAAF has a scale model of the F35 which they tow from show to show. It's a 1:1 scale, just used for display purposes. These were taken at the recent Canberra Airport Open Day.

[burnz]

hopefully this will work copy past to you BT remove quotes mark
"magnet:?xt=urn:btih:PLMOUEIF37NOXHCGGWMLQFAODWDHM KKV&xl=641332176&dn=JSF_F-35%20Lightning%20II%20(burnz_au)&tr=udp%3A//tracker.openbittorrent.com%3A80&xs=http%3A//101.176.202.57%3A6346/uri-res/N2R%3Furn%3Abtih%3APLMOUEIF37NOXHCGGWMLQFAODWDHMKK V"

[Silver Ghia]

Why the beat up now? The F-35 purchase was decided on over 10 years ago. And since then several Australian companies have benefited well by working on the project designing and making parts for it. And will continue to.

[Streets]

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

The RAAF has a scale model of the F35 which they tow from show to show. It's a 1:1 scale, just used for display purposes. These were taken at the recent Canberra Airport Open Day.

Ironically this is actually how the finished product will work

ground crew will tow the plane to the target's location, whereupon the pilot will get out of the plane with his service pistol and shoot the target himself

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Yes indeedy.... 12 BILLION is a LOT of hospital beds, or Dr visits eh?
How bout we only buy 56 or 57 fighters, then with the change buy 8 or 10 Elvis fire-fighting helicopters for our summer threat? (That'd make too much sense though)

This 12 Bil purchase also seems totally at odds with all expert opinion on what fighter we should buy?
Methinks more than ONE Grange Hermitage has changed hands to seal the deal?

Yeah why would we buy a plane that can seamlessly integrate with our biggest allies - allies we will depend upon in any serious conflict, and who we will need to support to ensure we get that help if and when required.

Every expert who I have heard constantly talks air superiority. When was the last dogfight? We do not need an air superiority fighter. We need something stealthy that can internally carry a few smart bombs. Networking between planes is critical. The speed of the F111 is so yesterday, low flying isnt as good as it used to be now that AWAC's can look down. Wish we could keep them for airshows though - nothing ever beat a dump and burn...and they looked horn.

What should we buy - Eurofighters......Russian planes? But then again, we are Australia, we need to whinge when we really have little idea what we are talking about.

Defense is like insurance, we all hate paying for it because there are other things that seem to be of greater value. Then one day............

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by tweeked

Yeah why would we buy a plane that can seamlessly integrate with our biggest allies - allies we will depend upon in any serious conflict, and who we will need to support to ensure we get that help if and when required.

Any fighter form the Eurofighter to SU 31 with correct software package can be networked and integrated.

Originally Posted by tweeked

The speed of the F111 is so yesterday, low flying isnt as good as it used to be now that AWAC's can look down. Wish we could keep them for airshows though - nothing ever beat a dump and burn...and they looked horn..

Ask the Malaysian MiG pilots or the US AWACS?F16 fighter screen guys about when they went up against the PIGs and their drivers in excercises, we never lost against them.

Originally Posted by tweeked

What should we buy - Eurofighters......Russian planes? But then again, we are Australia, we need to whinge when we really have little idea what we are talking about.

RAAF pilots tested the SU31 and SU31MK and were impressed with their abilities and the Russian pilots were even more impressed wiht the RAAF pilots abilites ot have one familiarisation flight and to jump in and fly them and do things experienced on type Russian pilots can do.

Typhoon would have suited our budget better and is a an aircraft showing its abilities. Both were offerd to Australia to be built under licence but we opted the expensive no build in Australia option.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by bungarra

Both were offered to Australia to be built under licence but we opted the expensive no build in Australia option.

There has, is and will be significant Australian input into the design and manufacture of parts, for all variants of the F-35's built. That was part of the original agreement, and I can vouch it actually happened.

[Bossxr8]

Marand Engineering are here in Geelong at Fords disused tool room, and they are making the pilot access ladders and verticle tailplanes for the F35.

[rdmr]

Originally Posted by tweeked

Yeah why would we buy a plane that can seamlessly integrate with our biggest allies - we will depend upon in any serious conflict, and who we will need to support to ensure we get that help if and when required.

Every expert who I have heard constantly talks air superiority. When was the last dogfight? We do not need an air superiority fighter. We need something stealthy that can internally carry a few smart bombs. Networking between planes is critical. The speed of the F111 is so yesterday, low flying isnt as good as it used to be now that AWAC's can look down. Wish we could keep them for airshows though - nothing ever beat a dump and burn...and they looked horn.

What should we buy - Eurofighters......Russian planes? But then again, we are Australia, we need to whinge when we really have little idea what we are talking about.

Defense is like insurance, we all hate paying for it because there are other things that seem to be of greater value. Then one day............

Air superiority and dogfighting are two different things.
If you control the air you control the battle. Air superiority is critical.

[Bucknaked]

http://youtu.be/27qdB1D0s9M

Interesting review of the F35.

If it's known for 10 years that the F35 is such a dud, why are they continuing with the purchase.

[Iggle Piggle]

So how much will I be looking at for a second hand Hornet when the F35 arrives?

Just base spec - not ticking option boxes for weapons etc...just some fuel will do.

[BHDOGS]

These will never be used in combat maybe in some whisy washy bullshit peace keeping mission but real war never and they would make zero difference against any real superior power.

[Iggle Piggle]

I dunno about them never seeing combat BHDOGS - Clipsal is war, and their fly-over is going to be freakin' awesome!

[zilo]

One stray inter continental multi nuclear warhead missile can easily get past hundreds of these supposedly superior air powered planes.

Then it's all over.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by zilo

One stray inter continental multi nuclear warhead missile can easily get past hundreds of these supposedly superior air powered planes.

Then it's all over.

Thats been the case for 50 years, but strangely enough fighter jets have been neccessary during that period despite that fact.

[XR Martin]

Do you guys realise it took nearly ten years from the first flight of the Eurofighter to it being introduced? So in other words the timeframe for the F35 is similar.
Oh and add to that the Eurofighter is a generation older, so in reality its little more advanced than the Superhornets that we aleady have.

Oh and with the F35 one of the keys is how many are bought, the more that are sold the cheaper they get. Australia committing to purchase more, may see other countries jump in and buy more; thus dropping the price further.

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

There has, is and will be significant Australian input into the design and manufacture of parts, for all variants of the F-35's built. That was part of the original agreement, and I can vouch it actually happened.

We are building some compnents, not manufacturing most of the components and actually building the whole aircraft, which we should have been doing.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Thats been the case for 50 years, but strangely enough fighter jets have been neccessary during that period despite that fact.

They are dumping obsolete technology on us.

It's an unmanned drone combat arena now...staged far from the battlefront.

Pretty obvious really that that's the way war birds are heading.

[xxx000]

Hockey has spent weeks preparing us for the worst, putting on his serious frown look, telling us we'll have to work harder and through until we turn 70 and then this waste of our tax money comes up.
Why oh why if things are allegedly so bad economically would any government commit at this time to spending billions on aircraft that at best we only might use.

[BA GT-HO]

People do realise Labor signed off on them? K. Rudd in fact. It makes no difference who was in power right now, we would be getting them.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...-1225803790418

[xxx000]

Notice how the announcement was made just prior to Anzac Day when patriotism is at its highest?

[ford man xf]

Originally Posted by xxx000

Hockey has spent weeks preparing us for the worst, putting on his serious frown look, telling us we'll have to work harder and through until we turn 70 and then this waste of our tax money comes up.
Why oh why if things are allegedly so bad economically would any government commit at this time to spending billions on aircraft that at best we only might use.

Its called deterrence. You provide a threat so great, that only sheer stupidity or ignorance would permit someone to "go there". Modern warfare is more about deterrence than anything.

It would be like say, having an aggressive pitbull sitting in your yard, or an alarm system in your house, with visible equipment and stickers on the window so that any thief would think twice about entering.

It's no different to our alliance with the US, people will still criticize it, but the fact we have them as our ally means we can spend a lot lot lot less on our military simply because other nations that could be aggressive are deterred from even thinking about attacking, but of course the left and greens never seem to get this simple concept.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

There has, is and will be significant Australian input into the design and manufacture of parts, for all variants of the F-35's built. That was part of the original agreement, and I can vouch it actually happened.

Depends on your definition of significant, after all Australia is only a level 3 partner in the project...

The Pom's (the only level 1 partner) are still battling the US for more input to design/manufacture parts along with getting increased access to software so they can maintain the aircraft themselves, and they put in 10 per cent of the project development costs.......compared to level 1/2 partners Australia's kickback's are miniscule......

[BHDOGS]

Originally Posted by ford man xf

Its called deterrence. You provide a threat so great, that only sheer stupidity or ignorance would permit someone to "go there". Modern warfare is more about deterrence than anything.

It would be like say, having an aggressive pitbull sitting in your yard, or an alarm system in your house, with visible equipment and stickers on the window so that any thief would think twice about entering.

It's no different to our alliance with the US, people will still criticize it, but the fact we have them as our ally means we can spend a lot lot lot less on our military simply because other nations that could be aggressive are deterred from even thinking about attacking, but of course the left and greens never seem to get this simple concept.

The only deterrence worth **** is nukes anything else is just a con job no real power is going to be deterred by a couple of ****** planes who are we gonna fight New Zealand Antarctica name one decent power near us with the will to invade or even the means in any meaningful way there ain't one. It's a crock of ****

[rdmr]

I wasn't aware f22 production had even stopped. F35 it is then.
Hopefully it will be a Development hell, operational heaven story like the f111 was.
$12 billion could go a very long way into building our own drone industry though. Plenty of joystick warriors around.

[SB076]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

The only deterrence worth **** is nukes anything else is just a con job no real power is going to be deterred by a couple of ****** planes who are we gonna fight New Zealand Antarctica name one decent power near us with the will to invade or even the means in any meaningful way there ain't one. It's a crock of ****

You use nukes you get nuked, as far as decent powers near us, who foresaw Japan as a threat in 1939? I am waiting to see how good or bad these planes are before writing it off as a silly purchase. If they can keep us safe for the next 20 years or so, than they are a worthwhile investment.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by xxx000

Hockey has spent weeks preparing us for the worst, putting on his serious frown look, telling us we'll have to work harder and through until we turn 70 and then this waste of our tax money comes up.
Why oh why if things are allegedly so bad economically would any government commit at this time to spending billions on aircraft that at best we only might use.

On that logic we dont need police either..............hang on..........

[Bucknaked]

Originally Posted by tweeked

On that logic we dont need police either..............hang on..........

Of course not. We can use heat seeking missiles on law breakers. Guaranteed, never to break the law again