The rising price (and associated costs) of Oil / Petrol Discussion Thread.

[sgt_doofey]

Can you go around Australia for less than $800?

http://www.peugeot.com.au/PEUGEOT/AU...nshow&FFFF2391

Originally Posted by Peugeot Website

Two New Fuel Economy Guinness World Records!!

25 DAY ROUND AUSTRALIA DRIVE CONCLUDES

- Super Fuel Efficient Peugeot 308 HDi arrives back in Melbourne with two new World Records under its belt (Subject to final Guinness World Record confirmation)

- Averaging 1919km per 60-litre tank, the Peugeot 308 breaks the record set by the previous model in 2004

- John and Helen Taylor have battled the elements to break their own record, encountering rain, storms and even a cyclone as they drove 14,580km around the country

- Final fuel consumption figure of only 3.13 litres per 100km or 90.75 mpg!! Breaks the previous record belonging to a Peugeot 307 of 3.49 litres per 100km
Only 90.3* grams of CO2 produced per km (includes fuel supply chain) which compares to a national vehicle average of 285* grams per km (*according to figures from the Department of Climate Change and the Australian Bureau of Statistics).

- Fast Facts - Only 7.59 (60 litre) tanks used, 453.94 litres of diesel consumed, total cost only $703.93, best tank achieved 1988km from 58.98 litres, giving a theoretical range of 2020km if all 60 litres were used

This would have been done with the 1.6L Turbo Diesel 307, not the bigger, more powerful 2.0L engine.

[ECOJET]

Originally Posted by Green X

Because I'm 6ft3 a smart car isn't exactly built for people like my-self. I drive 500km a week to and from work, i often do long distance country driving I like the comfort and style of a falcon, as long as i pay my Taxes and work 5-6 day's a week i will drive what ever car i feel like.

At the end of the day i will not buy that carton off beer or just work a extra 30 minutes overtime and keep driving my Falcon.

I accept that is cost money but to say the price is not being artificially inflated is a bit hard to swallow $140 down to $126 in under a week come on, the fuel price shot up soon as crude jumped, but funny thing is the fuel prices didn't drop back down as quickly when the price of crude dropped.

so if you're going to drive so much, what exactly is the reason you haven't got an lpg conversion, long ago? just curious...

[kempster1]

Originally Posted by kempster1

Interesting listening to most of the city based people whinging about paying around $1.50 per litre.

Have a thought for the people in rural Australia..
We are currently paying the following:
ULP $1.99 per litre (Just went down a bit it was over $2 also)
Diesel $2.10 per litre

There are plenty of other members on here from rural locations, what are you paying?

ULP $2.01
Diesel $2.13

:

[ECOJET]

it evens out by the fact u guys arent accelerating and stopping every 50metres with traffic lights :p

[ea90gl]

Funny thing is currently my work hack EA on gas is now more cheaper to run then my fiances 06 Lancer 2.0ltr (considering petrol is $1.55 as opposed to 65 c/ltr). Yes I know LPG will still rise but hopefully not as much as petrol has risen. I done a 370km trip the other day in the Ford, used just under a full tank and that cost me around $35. Judging by the avearge highway mileage/cost we recorded in the Lancer we got from Adelaide to melbourne that same trip would have costed about $48, roughly $13 more just for that one trip.. Thats 100/8.3 = 12ish, 370/12 = 31is, then finally 31 X 1.55 = $48ish. That right there is close to bizarre

[ea90gl]

Originally Posted by ECOJET

it evens out by the fact u guys arent accelerating and stopping every 50metres with traffic lights :p

lol so true dont forget having to accelerate after hitting the brakes cause some guy has just pulled out infront, plus you dont have to floor it past morons who sit on 10 kays under the limit etc etc

[Pinch]

What about that Hybrid LPG Elantra that Hyundai are talking about? Sounds ok as a commuter/run around car. Would never be the only thing in my garage though. My first new car was a Hyundai and the reliability, and before and after sales service sadly ran rings around the two new Fords that I have owned (last new Ford was the BA).

A new and interesting concept that I would consider.

[ECOJET]

Originally Posted by Pinch

What about that Hybrid LPG Elantra that Hyundai are talking about? Sounds ok as a commuter/run around car. Would never be the only thing in my garage though. My first new car was a Hyundai and the reliability, and before and after sales service sadly ran rings around the two new Fords that I have owned (last new Ford was the BA).

A new and interesting concept that I would consider.

finally someone does it!! hybrid lpg would be cheaper to run than a scooter

[SeXC]

it would also be slower than a scooter, haha

jj i thinki it would be a great idea. Still waiting though for someone to make a diesel electric car though (different to hybrid)

[sgt_doofey]

Originally Posted by SeXC

Still waiting though for someone to make a diesel electric car though (different to hybrid)

Peugeot have made a 308 as a diesel Hybrid. It's only a concept at this point in time, but would be nice and cheap to run.

[Quasi]

Originally Posted by Green X

I’m sure somebody understands it all, but to me, Oil is a given it’s not a mystery how much is needed day to day is it??

Like I am fairly sure the amount of oil nodded on a day to day is fairly F*&*ing constant so how the price can change day to day or there are supply fears that make it spike is beyond me, cause to me when a Oil rig gets taken out by a tidal wave that is a supply problem, not yeah a band of Hobo's in hi-luxes might target a oil pipeline in Afghanistan somtime in the next 2 weeks mabey perhaps.

The part of that scenario that bothers me the most, is that when this happens, and the per barrel price goes up, so does the pump price, yet the fuel we are paying for was produced from oil bought and stockplied three price rises ago.

[SeXC]

Originally Posted by Quasi

The part of that scenario that bothers me the most, is that when this happens, and the per barrel price goes up, so does the pump price, yet the fuel we are paying for was produced from oil bought and stockplied three price rises ago.

much the same as when a person buys an xwgt in the 90s for 20k and sellits today for 150k

[ebxr8240]

At the expense of repeating myself...
We need a national scheme like snowy river scheme ..
To produce our own fuel / alcohol .. But IMO sell it SEPERATE from normal
petrol service stations. SO its TRUE competition !!!
So Woolworthless and Clueless { Coles] are ripping us off..
Leaving politics out of it....

[GTPete]

Originally Posted by SeXC

much the same as when a person buys an xwgt in the 90s for 20k and sellits today for 150k

Not really. No one is forcing you to buy the XW. Fuel is a need not a want....

[stera]

Without being shot, can I say that in my HUMBLE opinion, the majority of people crying about the price in petrol need a gigantic slap across the face to rattle some common sense into them!

These people that cry poor about the price of petrol are also the same morons screaming past you in peak hour traffic, gingerly waving some form of non welcoming gesture and slamming on the brakes to get that extra car ahead!!

Congratulations c**khead you beat me to the red light!

I dont consider myself a grandpa and do not have a hat in my car, but its the simple things that add up. Forgive me for seeing no point racing between red lights and coasting up to the lights at a sensible speed!

Dont get me wrong, there are clowns on the road, but what happened to tolerance? Would you act the same way if it was a friend or your Mother or Father in the other car??

Id like to be honest and just say people are too lazy to care and it easier to complain. If people REALLY cared they would by petrol on certain days, supposedly 'boycott' Mobil, or BP and not buy petrol for a certain period, but I dont know the answer!

All I am suggesting is that if some people showed a little more for-thought for the repercussions of their actions, maybe things would be alittle different!

But I think its just more a sign of the 'victim' society that we live in!!

Maybe wake up 10 minutes earlier, cos that 10 minutes does nothing anyway and leave earlier, so its much more a relaxing drive - Who knows, maybe you will enjoy the drive, share my opinion and Im sure it will have a ensuing effect on your WHOLE day!!

Once again, just my HUMBLE opinion!! ha!

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by stera

Without being shot, can I say that in my HUMBLE opinion, the majority of people crying about the price in petrol need a gigantic slap across the face to rattle some common sense into them!

These people that cry poor about the price of petrol are also the same morons screaming past you in peak hour traffic, gingerly waving some form of non welcoming gesture and slamming on the brakes to get that extra car ahead!!

Congratulations c**khead you beat me to the red light!

I dont consider myself a grandpa and do not have a hat in my car, but its the simple things that add up. Forgive me for seeing no point racing between red lights and coasting up to the lights at a sensible speed!

Dont get me wrong, there are clowns on the road, but what happened to tolerance? Would you act the same way if it was a friend or your Mother or Father in the other car??

Id like to be honest and just say people are too lazy to care and it easier to complain. If people REALLY cared they would by petrol on certain days, supposedly 'boycott' Mobil, or BP and not buy petrol for a certain period, but I dont know the answer!

All I am suggesting is that if some people showed a little more for-thought for the repercussions of their actions, maybe things would be alittle different!

But I think its just more a sign of the 'victim' society that we live in!!

Maybe wake up 10 minutes earlier, cos that 10 minutes does nothing anyway and leave earlier, so its much more a relaxing drive - Who knows, maybe you will enjoy the drive, share my opinion and Im sure it will have a ensuing effect on your WHOLE day!!

Once again, just my HUMBLE opinion!! ha!

WTF???? :

The people getting hit the most are the poor sods who have to commute a huge distance towork. These are the people who can't afford to buy a new "efficient" car as they have enough trouble making payments on their EA Falcon which they need to commute from the middle of the sticks in to the sawmill at Bunjalung.

The real to$$ers are ones like at my work who have a cry about petrol prices over their expensive cafe' lunch and then their solution is to go out and buy a brand new Corolla. The real people affected by petrol prices will never buy a brand new car and live in the country or the outer suburbs.

When I was younger I had an after school job at Big W. One day my old man told me to quit my job because it was costing more to pick me up from work then I was making at work. That is the real face of petrol prices.

The biggest mistake I ever made was selling my 250cc motorbike. Now I am at the stage where I could be paying $100 a week in petrol when I am only on apprentice wages. I really don't want to have to go into debt to buy a motorbike but it looks like I have little choice.

[ieatsports_cars]

i have a friend in new zeland and they are paying 239.9 today !

[ltd_on20s]

just thought i'd chip in on this whole "end of the world is near scenario" with regards to oil. a lot of fear mongering by governments and scientists really messes with peoples thought processes on oil...

No1. oil companies dont have any ethics. when a oil company is willing to do a deal with corrupt cronies in power like those in nigeria, and allow nearly 350 million dollars to "dissapear" per month!!!! while the rest of country lives on less then 2 bucks a day, that company should have its license revoked on a worldwide stage. addition to this, as the price of oil has risen, profits for oil companies have skyrocketed

no2. opec should be broken up . it is a cartel by any other name. the US had the balls to breakup standard oil back in 1911 as it was a monopoly. no one group should be able to control how much oil comes on the market.

no3. 30% of all oil profits should be reinvested back into renewable energy technology. the shareholder should come second to advancement of technology, with ethical consideration of course. this should be law.

no4. ANYTHING can actually be made into oil. not yanking your chain here peoples but you name it it can be broken down into oil. what you put in your car today is really just broken down trees,plants and animals. the oil we dig up out of the ground is just the process thats taken millions of years, when we ccan get it done in a few months.

seriously look into it, sugar cane, plastics, woodchip, fabrics, grass... anything organic can become oil. so there is no "peak oil" crap, just peak oil from drilling.

the problems we have? companies who are more powerful then the governments of the day and people that say that things cant be done.

ill leave you guys with this. there was a study commisioned into the use of solar energy in sydney, it was calculated that if 85% of the houses in sydney had the latest solar panels installed on roofs, and plugged into a national grid, there would only be a need for 2 coal fired power stations in all of sydney. sobering thought huh when you pay 200+ bucks every three months when we could get if almost free from the sun....

[YOOT]

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

sobering thought huh when you pay 200+ bucks every three months when we could get if almost free from the sun....

Nothing comes for free. Its like water Tanks, in Brisbane you can have a 5000L tank installed with a pump to your house for nearly nothing with government rebates, but it 5 years time they will be taxing every household that has a tank for storing water on their property.

Same as LPG will be taxed in the near future, so you can bet your bottom dollar that if there was a mass movement towards solar panels that the local council would be taxing you on the amount of power you receive from it. :

[SSbaby]

When you consider the ECOmmodore concept a few years back when Holden hopped into bed with the CSIRO to develop the capacitor based battery pack the decision by Rudd to give Toyota a $70m grant seems like a backward step.

Whatever happened to development/progress? If the program was such a waste, why did the CSIRO put its name to it?

May 24th, 2000

ECOmmodore is Australia’s first ‘green’ car


Holden has unveiled a leading edge concept vehicle that uses up to 50 per cent less fuel than a conventional family car and dramatically reduces exhaust emissions.

ECOmmodore 1.jpg (17501 bytes)Developed jointly by Holden and CSIRO, the advanced hybrid-electric powered ECOmmodore has been and is designed with the emphasis on practicality and achievable technology. It is the first hybrid-electric vehicle to be produced by an Australian automotive manufacturer and is the only one of its type in the world.

Like the top-selling Holden Commodore it is based on, the ECOmmodore is a full-sized family car.

Its unique hybrid-electric powertrain - which combines an electric motor powered by supercapacitors and advanced lead-acid batteries with a four-cylinder aluminium alloy petrol engine - delivers the same level of performance as a standard 3.8 litre V6.

ECOmmodore’s technologies are specifically targeted at improving overall vehicle efficiency. These include significant mass reduction through the use of advanced, lightweight materials, clever aerodynamics, reduced rolling resistance and regenerative braking.

Holden chairman and managing director, Peter Hanenberger, says the ECOmmodore illustrates the high level of technological innovation that is achievable in Australia.

"It is a rolling showcase of all-Australian ingenuity. The ECOmmodore incorporates some of the materials, components and manufacturing technologies that will be needed in the future. It also demonstrates that hybrid technology can conceivably be used in a large family car at a realistic cost," he said.

"The ECOmmodore is a recognition of the increasing influence that social and environmental issues are bringing to bear on the uptake of new technologies. While it is not a prototype for the next model Commodore, it provides our engineers with a hands-on learning tool to experiment with emerging technologies that will be incorporated into Holden vehicles in coming decades," Mr Hanenberger concluded.

A major aim of the Holden/CSIRO ECOmmodore project was to demonstrate that a full- sized family car can meet future fuel consumption and emissions requirements without compromising the safety and engine performance of the current Commodore.

Supporting Holden’s role as Team Millennium Partner for the Sydney 2000 Olympic Games and Provider to the Sydney 2000 Olympic Torch Relay, the ECOmmodore will make its on-road debut in the opening leg of the Olympic Torch Relay at Uluru on 8 June. It has been nominated as the official guest relations vehicle in the Torch Relay convoy during its first day and will carry a VIP guest, yet to be named by SOCOG.

Reducing energy wastage the key
The low-emission ECOmmodore derives its remarkable fuel efficiency and performance capabilities from a number of sources.

Holden and CSIRO engineers and technicians began by focusing their abilities on reducing the estimated 87 per cent in energy wastage that occurs during normal suburban driving. They targeted stringent fuel consumption goals by reducing the energy needed during acceleration and cruising, reclaiming some of the energy lost during braking and improving engine efficiency.

Lightweight materials
Weight reduction was a major focus. Without compromising on safety, performance and comfort levels, significant gains were made by using high-strength, lightweight materials to form an efficient body structure.

The floor is constructed in embossed aluminium: stronger than normal steel flooring and one third the weight. Other panels are made from carbon fibre and fibreglass.

All windows, with the exception of the windscreen, are polycarbonate. Seats and door trims are lightweight, as are the steering column and suspension system. Brake system mass is significantly reduced via lightweight calipers and an electrically operated parking brake.

Slippery aerodynamics
ECOmmodore 3.jpg (18690 bytes)The ECOmmodore’s striking looks combine form and function.

Using computer simulation techniques and making relatively subtle changes to the Commodore shape, Holden engineers targeted a drag co-efficient of 0.28.

Changes to the Commodore’s shape include a lowered roof, which decreases the vehicle’s frontal area. The rear was modified by using sharper edges to better control airflow separation and minimise wake size.

The underbody - a major source of aerodynamic drag - is lowered and flat; exhaust systems and brake lines are contained in channels above the floor. Ride height is also lowered, minimising overall drag by reducing the amount of air passing beneath the vehicle.

Rolling resistance reduction
To reduce the four per cent of total fuel consumption normally lost to rolling resistance, the ECOmmodore sits on 18-inch, lightweight alloy wheels and narrow, low-profile tyres featuring a special low rolling resistance compound and tread pattern. This combination also reduces the frontal area of the tyres and improves the drag coefficient.

Performance Efficiency
The parallel hybrid technology used in the ECOmmodore - where a 50kW electric motor and a lightweight 95kW petrol engine share the drive load - is not new.

ECOmmodore 2.jpg (27657 bytes)What makes this hybrid powertrain unique (also low-cost, practical and powerfully effective) is a creative combination of CSIRO-developed supercapacitors, which absorb energy and can deliver it to the electric motor very quickly; long-lasting lead acid batteries and advanced electronic control systems.

When the ECOmmodore is accelerating, petrol and electric engines combine to deliver the necessary surge of power. When it is cruising, or idling, the petrol engine switches off and the electric motor alone takes over.

Features of the compact 2.0 litre Holden engine include an all-aluminium block, spun cast iron alloy liners, floating piston pins for reduced friction and an electric water pump.

Accessory loads - air conditioning, compressor, alternator, etc - have been deleted. Recently developed lubricants are used for engine and drive systems.

Regenerative braking
The ECOmmodore further reduces energy wastage via a regenerative braking system which converts the kinetic energy normally lost in braking into electric energy, which is stored in its supercapacitors and batteries for later use.

Solar cooling
The use of solar energy for cabin cooling also minimises fuel consumption by reducing the load on ECOmmodore’s air conditioning system. Energy generated by a solar panel bonded to its roof drives a fan which continually pumps fresh air into the car, even when it is parked, replacing warm air with ambient temperature air.

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by SSbaby

When you consider the ECOmmodore concept a few years back when Holden hopped into bed with the CSIRO to develop the capacitor based battery pack the decision by Rudd to give Toyota a $70m grant seems like a backward step.

Whatever happened to development/progress? If the program was such a waste, why did the CSIRO put its name to it?

7:30 report had a story on it on Thursday night, they had to drag Holden kicking and screaming to the table is what the CSIRO engineer claimed.

[SeXC]

Originally Posted by GTPete

Not really. No one is forcing you to buy the XW. Fuel is a need not a want....

no one is forcing you to buy fuel either, you buy fuel because you WANT a car. The only person that NEEDS fuel is a person in a transport industry or a person in the middle of nowhere( but only if they ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO be in the middle of nowhere)

You DO NOT need a car, so you cant use that argument,

And then the people who NEED fuel would not need to complain because demand pressure is down and oil becomes worth less.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by SeXC

no one is forcing you to buy fuel either, you buy fuel because you WANT a car. The only person that NEEDS fuel is a person in a transport industry or a person in the middle of nowhere( but only if they ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO be in the middle of nowhere)

You DO NOT need a car, so you cant use that argument,

And then the people who NEED fuel would not need to complain because demand pressure is down and oil becomes worth less.

Ah. Said no doubt, by someone who lives in a city with a half decent public transport system.

[SeXC]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Ah. Said no doubt, by someone who lives in a city with a half decent public transport system.

maybe, i dont really have anything to compare it by. But the bottom line is, is you dont need a car. I have a clevo. It costs me an arm and a freakin leg to fuel but if i wanted to not use oil, i could catch a bus, (I am aware buses use oils....) or a train, or ride a bike or if i was too lazy, i could get a scooter which would cost 10 a week to fuel for 400kms.

But it is my choice to drive a clevo. A choice I like thoroughly.

Its still a choice.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by SeXC

maybe, i dont really have anything to compare it by. But the bottom line is, is you dont need a car. I have a clevo. It costs me an arm and a freakin leg to fuel but if i wanted to not use oil, i could catch a bus, (I am aware buses use oils....) or a train, or ride a bike or if i was too lazy, i could get a scooter which would cost 10 a week to fuel for 400kms.

But it is my choice to drive a clevo. A choice I like thoroughly.

Its still a choice.

What you mean is that YOU dont need a car.

Try thinking outside your little circle. Like hundreds of others here I live in a country town, public transport is patchy.

If I did'nt have a car I'd have to catch a taxi at 1:00am every day to get to work.... Oops, hang on. Thats a car!!

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

What you mean is that YOU dont need a car.

Try thinking outside your little circle. Like hundreds of others here I live in a country town, public transport is patchy.

If I did'nt have a car I'd have to catch a taxi at 1:00am every day to get to work.... Oops, hang on. Thats a car!!

At least you've got a Taxi service.

It will be regional areas that will suffer the most from fuel prices. See how the government reacts when a loaf of bread is $30

[ivorya]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

At least you've got a Taxi service.

It will be regional areas that will suffer the most from fuel prices. See how the government reacts when a loaf of bread is $30

I can see it now......

Sorry but due to the inflationary pressures due to the loaf of bread now at record prices of $30, we have to increase interest rates to a record level of 20%.....

[SeXC]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

What you mean is that YOU dont need a car.

Try thinking outside your little circle. Like hundreds of others here I live in a country town, public transport is patchy.

If I did'nt have a car I'd have to catch a taxi at 1:00am every day to get to work.... Oops, hang on. Thats a car!!

and if you had of read my previous posts before jumping on the whiney express, you would read that i said remote areas were an exception.

And if it was close enough that you could warrant catching a taxi, you could ride a bike or walk. I have done it in times when i couldnt afford to fix my car (45minute bike ride to the train station)

AND you completely ignored the part where i said if fuel was a problem then buy a scooter and only pay 10 bucks per week.

No one has an excuse to complain until they have ABSOLUTELY no other option.

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by SeXC

and if you had of read my previous posts before jumping on the whiney express, you would read that i said remote areas were an exception.

And if it was close enough that you could warrant catching a taxi, you could ride a bike or walk. I have done it in times when i couldnt afford to fix my car (45minute bike ride to the train station)

AND you completely ignored the part where i said if fuel was a problem then buy a scooter and only pay 10 bucks per week.

No one has an excuse to complain until they have ABSOLUTELY no other option.

If fuel costs are that bad that it is affecting you then I very much doubt you can budget in the cost of a scooter.

Besides motorbikes/scooters don't help if it is cold, raining or you are an older fellow with bad back etc. or need to take equipment to work. Even small things like picking up stuff after work or your motorbike jacket crumpling your work clothes and hair (office or retail).

Try asking a poor bloke who has just finished a 10 hour shift at the sawmill to ride 100 kays home on a scooter in the middle of winter.

[hypnodoc]

Far worse is yet to come. When you consider that petrol is never ever going to come down, you have to then consider the coming inflation that will accompany the continual price rises, our fleet of 11 cars (2 X F6s, 2X Bfs, & 7 X Focus's) monthly fuel bill has risen by more than $1500 a month. Have to pass the $18k per year on to somewhere. Everything we do or use requires fuel so it's scary when you multiply it. If oil hits $200 a barrell like the futures market assumes that it will. Inflation will eat up at least 25% of the average present family disposal income. When that happens, as simple mathematics dictates it must, a lot of people are gonna be in deep financial poo :evil3:
Trust a Government or a Multi National for even a moment and they will eat your lunch :