Vfacts November 2018 - Page 6

hackney · 13-12-2018, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

Theres no way you could survive selling 1 of anything, unless maybe your Toyota. Nearly every dealership in the country is multi franchised. They may not share the same site but they are all part of a larger group.

Its also a lot tougher for dealers to make money out of finance / insurance products now. I can see a rationalization of dealers across many brands in the coming year or so. I think early 2019 will see a bigger sales hit as manufacturers like Holden have been furiously registering demos to keep their numbers looking good, they cannot sustain it for much longer. Ford has also had dealers registering as many demos as they can so they can advertise them online. To advertise a car it needs to have 1500 kms on it. This will affect them sooner then later as they will run out of room to keep registering cars.

I can see Dec and Jan being a bad month for Ford....

Theres been a huge issue with Ranger plant changes which has put some cars back 2 months...

Every dealer in my region ALL multi franchise(except the Toyota dealership)It is becoming the norm now.The Holden dealer that my local Ford dealer now has,if it goes under,he has a lot of other brands around him to survive.Really think he is game taking it on,or,knows something nobody else knows.

prydey · 13-12-2018, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

Same old story we get a car that dated with old motors .

People said the same thing (probably yourself included) when diesel territory was released with the 'old' 2.7 motor. Did it matter? Nope. Widely praised as one of the best vehicles of its type.

Smoke Pursuit · 13-12-2018, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

People said the same thing (probably yourself included) when diesel territory was released with the 'old' 2.7 motor. Did it matter? Nope. Widely praised as one of the best vehicles of its type.

Well given I bought a Titanium 2.7 brand new 7 years ago I don't think I did. I was actually one of the people who praised it for what it was. It was one of my favourite SUV's and I only sold it because it was black with a cream interior, went on a binge and bought a few Mercs after it and here I am back with a Mondeo Titanium. I just cannot understand why you would bring a new model to the market with an old motor when you already have the new motor in the closet. If it had the new motor they could probably justify the prices.

prydey · 13-12-2018, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

Well given I bought a Titanium 2.7 brand new 7 years ago I don't think I did. I was actually one of the people who praised it for what it was. It was one of my favourite SUV's and I only sold it because it was black with a cream interior, went on a binge and bought a few Mercs after it and here I am back with a Mondeo Titanium. I just cannot understand why you would bring a new model to the market with an old motor when you already have the new motor in the closet. If it had the new motor they could probably justify the prices.

I don't think the average buyer would even know or care, as long as it drives well.

does the new motor require adblue? Perhaps Ford know how much Australians don't like change.... or the anti pollution stuff.

Smoke Pursuit · 13-12-2018, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

I don't think the average buyer would even know or care, as long as it drives well.

does the new motor require adblue? Perhaps Ford know how much Australians don't like change.... or the anti pollution stuff.

Thats the thing, the performance between the two is chalk and cheese. Anyways another stuff up from team blue...

**Fordman1** · 13-12-2018, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Europe get the ecoblue
https://www.caradvice.com.au/623633/...-edge-ecoblue/
but I think SP is correct we are still getting the existing donk - all too slowly

There is a single Turbo EcoBlue, Transit has it, there are versions of Ranger that have it overseas also (Asia). Europe don’t have the single Turbo Ranger EvoBlue yet.

**Fordman1** · 13-12-2018, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

Yes we get a MY19 but with the old motor. Don't ask me why but people question me when i say its too dear simply because it is. Same old story we get a car that dated with old motors for top dollar. No different to the Mondeo really, only reason I bought one was because it was dirt cheap and is only a shopping trolley that does 35k a year. By the time I'm done with it it will be worth scrap metal

.

So you’re in the Europe or South America ?

prydey · 13-12-2018, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

Thats the thing, the performance between the two is chalk and cheese. Anyways another stuff up from team blue...

Endura has better power to weight figures than territory, and not too many diesel territory owners complain about how it goes.

jpd80 · 13-12-2018, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

We don't get Ecoblue here... Our Endura has the same Duratorq motor as my Diesel Mondeo with a few more kw. 140kw / 400 nm.

It is an 2.0 Panther Ecoblue engine, just not the one we wanted.

All the old PSA and Duratorq 2.0 engnes are being or have been replaced
by the new 2.0 Ecoblues, none of the old Duratorqs are being fitted with 8AT.

spvd02 · 13-12-2018, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

People said the same thing (probably yourself included) when diesel territory was released with the 'old' 2.7 motor. Did it matter? Nope. Widely praised as one of the best vehicles of its type.

I think you will find Territory was widely criticized for launching what was already a dated engine used in the then previous generation of Land Rover, and had been superceded by a far superior 3.0L producing 600nm torque. Many were disappointed with this choice, perhaps also explaining why sales didn't improve much with the diesel offering.

The 2.7 Terri was also heavily criticized for the significant throttle lag on take-off. They also blew black smoke on throttle application, so not exactly a cutting edge 'clean' diesel (if there even is such a thing). The general vibe was that while it was good, it certainly wasn't groundbreaking, which would explain why most buyers looked elsewhere.

jpd80 · 13-12-2018, 07:46 PM

Diesel Territory was years late, Geoff Polites did a lot of leg work while at Ford Europe but
the local program chief decided to stick with Territory Turbo until it was declared dead.

So frustrating because both vehicles side by side would have really strengthened the Territory
range in the mid 2000s, right when it needed it, tight when the push on diesel SUV gathered pace.

vztrt · 13-12-2018, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spvd02

I think you will find Territory was widely criticized for launching what was already a dated engine used in the then previous generation of Land Rover, and had been superceded by a far superior 3.0L producing 600nm torque. Many were disappointed with this choice, perhaps also explaining why sales didn't improve much with the diesel offering.

The 2.7 Terri was also heavily criticized for the significant throttle lag on take-off. They also blew black smoke on throttle application, so not exactly a cutting edge 'clean' diesel (if there even is such a thing). The general vibe was that while it was good, it certainly wasn't groundbreaking, which would explain why most buyers looked elsewhere.

Sales of the territory didn't increase as the daily build numbers didn't increase (there is more to that then lack of Terri sales btw). But at the end the diesel sold very well. The Terri ended up keeping the plant running more the falcon would of.

b0son · 13-12-2018, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

1) I know this is a Ford website, but I don't know why so many people **** on the Commodore. 700 sales IMO is a great month.

Are they genuine sales, or simply dealer smoke and mirrors? If the former, its a pretty good result given Falcon was selling a lot less towards the end.

kevino · 14-12-2018, 07:40 AM

I drive 300km a day in SE qld and Northern Nsw.

I have a little game each day which is spot new Camrys and spot new commodores.

Camry was 2/1 a day.

Lately its been 3 new commies to 1 new camry.

This area would have a big rental car presence but I think the tide may be turning as more people realise the cars positives.

Dr Smith · 14-12-2018, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

Endura has better power to weight figures than territory, and not too many diesel territory owners complain about how it goes.

Actually I do..complain that is.. however I sold a G6ET when I bought our first diesel Terry...but that lovely G6ET set a bar nothing could match at the same price...and that power to weight favour for Endura is not much to boast about, the 8 speed auto will make a bigger difference...don't you think that buying a territory with 140kW/440Nm and an Endura with similar figures 10 years later and charge considerbaly more just isn't something to drag in all those current Territory owners let alone make a point of difference over other brands.

I might start a thread on Endura after it's release under the title "What would make you buy it over it's opposition"? I sure hope it gets great positive press.

Dr Smith · 14-12-2018, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Diesel Territory was years late, Geoff Polites did a lot of leg work while at Ford Europe but
the local program chief decided to stick with Territory Turbo until it was declared dead.

So frustrating because both vehicles side by side would have really strengthened the Territory
range in the mid 2000s, right when it needed it, tight when the push on diesel SUV gathered pace.

A decision that in hindsight was catastrophic....rumour has it GP didn't speak too nicely to that decision maker at a funeral when back in OZ.

Another factor, if you wanted Terry AWD after SYII it was diesel only, imagine petrol, petrol turbo and diesel in rwd or awd...and a FTA that was fair....probably still have a factory building vehicles in Campbellfield.

Vesper Martini · 14-12-2018, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

It is an 2.0 Panther Ecoblue engine, just not the one we wanted.

All the old PSA and Duratorq 2.0 engnes are being or have been replaced
by the new 2.0 Ecoblues, none of the old Duratorqs are being fitted with 8AT.

According to what I've read the Endura we are getting dosnt have the 8AT. its gets the 6.

I brought up the question previously whether its get the ecoblue and was told yes.

but all the review and specs suggest were getting the old one.

Vesper Martini · 14-12-2018, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

People said the same thing (probably yourself included) when diesel territory was released with the 'old' 2.7 motor. Did it matter? Nope. Widely praised as one of the best vehicles of its type.

I didnt complain.
At the time Ford didn't have access to a better engine than the Lion V6 2.7

Its quite different if we get the Endura if we dont get a new Ecoblue diesel. and 8 speed for that matter

prydey · 14-12-2018, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Actually I do..complain that is.. however I sold a G6ET when I bought our first diesel Terry...but that lovely G6ET set a bar nothing could match at the same price...and that power to weight favour for Endura is not much to boast about, the 8 speed auto will make a bigger difference...don't you think that buying a territory with 140kW/440Nm and an Endura with similar figures 10 years later and charge considerbaly more just isn't something to drag in all those current Territory owners let alone make a point of difference over other brands.

I might start a thread on Endura after it's release under the title "What would make you buy it over it's opposition"? I sure hope it gets great positive press.

I think too much emphasis gets put on the drivetrain. Corolla sold with a 4sp auto long after all the opposition went to 6sp. Go to a supermarket and ask random people in new cars how old their engine is and whether it's the latest and greatest.

I get people's frustration but I just don't think the majority of buyers would know or care, as long as it drives nice.

Vesper Martini · 14-12-2018, 12:25 PM

They do however look at fuel economy Rob, even though the Duratorq has enough power the Ecoblue and 8 speed give game changing economy figures.

Ford need this car to have an Edge (such a shame they changed the name for us too, half the marketing done right there..)

Sprintey · 14-12-2018, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spvd02

I think you will find Territory was widely criticized for launching what was already a dated engine used in the then previous generation of Land Rover, and had been superceded by a far superior 3.0L producing 600nm torque. Many were disappointed with this choice, perhaps also explaining why sales didn't improve much with the diesel offering.

The 2.7 Terri was also heavily criticized for the significant throttle lag on take-off. They also blew black smoke on throttle application, so not exactly a cutting edge 'clean' diesel (if there even is such a thing). The general vibe was that while it was good, it certainly wasn't groundbreaking, which would explain why most buyers looked elsewhere.

I excitedly drove it shortly after launch and came away unimpressed. I do remember the excitement prior to the launch, with company cars driving around with the bodyshape changes. The throttle lag was the bit that got me, and the black smoke ruled it out for the mrs. (Despite no DPF to give headaches, which I rate as a plus). Later I learned the AWD is in 2wd a lot on the diesel AWD. It would have been great if they kept going with the AWD petrol to the end.

**Fordman1** · 14-12-2018, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

According to what I've read the Endura we are getting dosnt have the 8AT. its gets the 6.

I brought up the question previously whether its get the ecoblue and was told yes.

but all the review and specs suggest were getting the old one.

Not sure what you’re reading, but the FoA website makes it quite clear.

8 Spd Auto, hence Ecoblue singe Turbo.

It’s NOT the old diesel sorry.

jpd80 · 14-12-2018, 02:37 PM

Exactly,
the whole reason for the delay with Edge "replacing" Territory was to wait until
all the new changes were batched together in the latest model.

This is an almost off the shelf RHD UK Edge, just with lower power tune.
Honestly don't know why but it looks like a slight re-jigger of the 180PS engine..

Vesper Martini · 14-12-2018, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fordman1

Not sure what you’re reading, but the FoA website makes it quite clear.

8 Spd Auto, hence Ecoblue singe Turbo.

It’s NOT the old diesel sorry.

Was looking for reviews, last time I looked at the FoA website there was little info. now its updated!
That's good it gets the 8 speed, does not mention Ecoblue - why not?

Smoke Pursuit · 14-12-2018, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Was looking for reviews, last time I looked at the FoA website there was little info. now its updated!
That's good it gets the 8 speed, does not mention Ecoblue - why not?

Yeh no mention of it.

I was told by my dealer it would have the same motor as Mondeo. So my apologies BossXR8.

**Fordman1** · 14-12-2018, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

Yeh no mention of it.

I was told by my dealer it would have the same motor as Mondeo. So my apologies BossXR8.

Ha, ha.

The Dealer saw it was a 2 ltr Diesel and put 2 and 2 together to get 5.

jpd80 · 14-12-2018, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

Yeh no mention of it.

I was told by my dealer it would have the same motor as Mondeo. So my apologies BossXR8.

Think about it, all the Edges and Enduras are made at the same canadian plant,
Ford is not building an Endura for Australia that's so different to the UK RHD,
it's a single turbo Ecoblue diesel.

Ford is busy replacing the PSA and older diesels with the new Ecoblue in 1.5T and 2.0T,
they're going in vehicles at each product cycle change.

Dr Smith · 15-12-2018, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

They do however look at fuel economy Rob, even though the Duratorq has enough power the Ecoblue and 8 speed give game changing economy figures.

Ford need this car to have an Edge (such a shame they changed the name for us too, half the marketing done right there..)

I can see a niche marketing opportunity..a small pop up van replacing Endura badges with Edge badges...Ford is blocked from using the Edge name but a private buyer can stick anything on anything...

jpd80 · 15-12-2018, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Ford need this car to have an Edge (such a shame they changed the name for us too, half the marketing done right there..)

It's a damned shame that they didn't use the Territory name, that would have been money for jam..

**Fordman1** · 15-12-2018, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

It's a damned shame that they didn't use the Territory name, that would have been money for jam..

Maybe, but it wouldn’t have been “right”.