W427 finished - Page 6

colossus · 21-04-2009, 08:47 AM

Anyone who has ever studied or worked in marketing would be snickering at this whole excerise by now. It will probably become a textbook case on what not to do at most Aussie universities.

Lets see - research was way off, target market was ill defined, but most of all the thing should never have been built at that price point - you only bring the product to market if you can produce it at a price that your target market will consume. Obviously this was compeltley ignored by HSV, maybe through arrogance, maybe throuh their risk taking culture (nothing wrong with a risk taking culture but sometimes it just dosn't work out).

prydey · 21-04-2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colossus

Anyone who has ever studied or worked in marketing would be snickering at this whole excerise by now. It will probably become a textbook case on what not to do at most Aussie universities.

Lets see - research was way off, target market was ill defined, but most of all the thing should never have been built at that price point - you only bring the product to market if you can produce it at a price that your target market will consume. Obviously this was compeltley ignored by HSV, maybe through arrogance, maybe throuh their risk taking culture (nothing wrong with a risk taking culture but sometimes it just dosn't work out).

their target build to recoup costs was apparently 200 units. lets not also forget the small matter of a financial meltdown around the globe. i would say had that not happened it is likely the 200 units may have been sold.

also a lot of the other info comes via the media. those guys have the sole purpose of selling stories. not exactly the most reliable source for info.

TS50 · 21-04-2009, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

their target build to recoup costs was apparently 200 units. lets not also forget the small matter of a financial meltdown around the globe. i would say had that not happened it is likely the 200 units may have been sold.

also a lot of the other info comes via the media. those guys have the sole purpose of selling stories. not exactly the most reliable source for info.

You are wrong there
Their target was to build 427 of these cars
When they wernt selling, they revised their target to 200, which I would believe was an amount of sales they may just break even (however I doubt that too)
I think even if the "Global Meltdown" hadnt occured, they would have struggled to sell 427 cars at $150K, even struggle to sell 200 of them
Just not enough people around that would spend a $150K on a Holden or Falcon in place of a nice Euro machine for the same price

388cube_edxr8 · 21-04-2009, 03:54 PM

The W427 was waaaaay over priced, but in 20 years when only 50 of the 120 sold are still on the road, they will be worth heaps I reckon.

Pity almost anyone rich enough to spend that on a car probly wont be around in 20 years to cash in on it.

TS50 · 21-04-2009, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 388cube_edxr8

The W427 was waaaaay over priced, but in 20 years when only 50 of the 120 sold are still on the road, they will be worth heaps I reckon.

Pity almost anyone rich enough to spend that on a car probly wont be around in 20 years to cash in on it.

I doubt that too personally
no car is a good investment
ok people are saying look at a phase 3
well ok maybe have gone from $5000 to close to a $1,000,000 (not anymore)
but in 1971/72 if you spent $5000 on land, in the right spot, prob worth more than $2,000,000 yet.
I personally dont believe any car is ever a investment
Buy a car because you love it (or hate it) but buy it to use and love
A car like a T3 or W427 is about passion, not investment
i bought my TS for over $60000 when new
ok its 7 yrs old, i may get half of what i paid for it
i bet in another 7 yrs it will be lucky to be worth what i bought it new for
that is not an investment
I think the W427 will never make anyone rich, just like those that bought the last of the monaros,

I know there are those that wont agree, but we are all allowed to have our own opinions

prydey · 21-04-2009, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TS50

You are wrong there
Their target was to build 427 of these cars
When they wernt selling, they revised their target to 200, which I would believe was an amount of sales they may just break even (however I doubt that too)
I think even if the "Global Meltdown" hadnt occured, they would have struggled to sell 427 cars at $150K, even struggle to sell 200 of them
Just not enough people around that would spend a $150K on a Holden or Falcon in place of a nice Euro machine for the same price

according to 4vman, the build project was worked out over 200 units. from discussions in various threads regarding this car it seems he has some sort of involvement so i would sooner go by his info than that of the media.

everyone here is basing the majority of their opinions on performance figures as though that is the be all and end all to a motor car.

hands up how many have driven this car and can have an informed opinion.

4Vman · 21-04-2009, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TS50

You are wrong there
Their target was to build 427 of these cars
When they wernt selling, they revised their target to 200, which I would believe was an amount of sales they may just break even (however I doubt that too)
I think even if the "Global Meltdown" hadnt occured, they would have struggled to sell 427 cars at $150K, even struggle to sell 200 of them
Just not enough people around that would spend a $150K on a Holden or Falcon in place of a nice Euro machine for the same price

Sorry mate but the original build target was 200 over 2 years.. i know because i was part of the supply chain for the project.. 427 units was floated briefly after initial interest but never looked at seriously.

MITCHAY · 21-04-2009, 08:15 PM

At least HSV had the testicles to have a go with their project. It looks pron but the price sucks ****.

vztrt · 22-04-2009, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Sorry mate but the original build target was 200 over 2 years.. i know because i was part of the supply chain for the project.. 427 units was floated briefly after initial interest but never looked at seriously.

The 427 figure seems it more of a HSV marketing spin, maybe it was put out there to see if they could sell that many.

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...eID=59720&vf=2

There's the article when HSV confirmed the build was to be 200 units.

motorcycles4eva · 22-04-2009, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TS50

personally if i was going to throw $150 K at a car, it would have been a M3 or similar
still a shame it didnt work
however if FPV can keep a HO around a 100K it may well sell
might even put my name on one

i would have bought a 1997 Ferrari F355 GTS Yellow 6sp M Coupe
and kept my xa..
nice machine they produced but i can't afford anything..
but that is me

motorcycles4eva · 22-04-2009, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colac471

It's an instant collectors item, imagine what a nice one will be worth in 30 years

and how much rust these modern cars would have???
(just curious)
do you think that ozzy hsv is trying to show the world what they can do? maybe overseas engineers or supercar makers?? didnt they improve the american chev motor or somewhere along those lines??

prydey · 22-04-2009, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motorcycles4eva

and how much rust these modern cars would have???
(just curious)

plastic doesn't rust

:

TS50 · 22-04-2009, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Sorry mate but the original build target was 200 over 2 years.. i know because i was part of the supply chain for the project.. 427 units was floated briefly after initial interest but never looked at seriously.

Sorry mate, I got suckered in by the PR b/s
I shouldnt be so naive

Wally · 22-04-2009, 09:49 AM

Try as i might, I just can't seem to fathom why there is a need to ridicule Holden in every second topic in this forum. I appreciate there is a high degree of teasing and tongue in cheek, but the denegration is so repetitious that it makes for boring reading.

Negativity towards and poor uptake of the W427 will undoubtedly cause Ford to pause and reflect before attempting a similar niche project, even when the economy upturns.

Refreshing to see you without the flame thrower 4Vman.

Swordsman88 · 22-04-2009, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

Try as i might, I just can't seem to fathom why there is a need to ridicule Holden in every second topic in this forum. I appreciate there is a high degree of teasing and tongue in cheek, but the denegration is so repetitious that it makes for boring reading.
.

While i sympathise with what you are saying wally (particularly when it goes beyond teasing and sarcasm), i think part of the problem is the 'free kick' holden gets in the media and wider public. Abuse of Holden on a ford forum is nothing new (niether is denigration of ford itself from time to time) but i think ford fans should give holden credit for its engineering work on cars like W427 and its work pushed ford to work harder too.

BUT, the largely positive view the media has of holden, and the way the public (even non-holden owners) sees Holden as the 'little aussie battler' while meenwhile rubbishing ford and all its good work doesn't help. People want to push back, and when a car like the W427 falls short in some way (sales) they use that as an excuse to jump on. In their defence, Holden's arrogance and continual PR bull with little to no substance doesn't help.

Holden has a great history and do some great work, but they also have some rubbish and live off their 'we are australian' mantra, which is both false and meaningless. The fall from grace of the VE commodore in most models combined with poor sales of rubbish outdated korean cars doesn't portray a top level company. Niether does the fact Holden belongs to a thoroughly bankrupt operation, from GM, to Opel to GMDAT they are all cactus. Maybe we shouldn't attack holden anymore, they are doing all the damage to themselves anyway.

4Vman · 22-04-2009, 06:38 PM

You people do realise dont you that the plan was 200 over 2 years.. 120 in the first batch and 80 in the second batch for the second year........
Sounds like to me the first batch has sold out..

Swordsman88 · 22-04-2009, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

You people do realise dont you that the plan was 200 over 2 years.. 120 in the first batch and 80 in the second batch for the second year........
Sounds like to me the first batch has sold out..

So HSV is just not going ahead with the second batch then??? Would make sense RE ordering of parts if you were worried with GFC that you wouldn't sell all the next 80.

IF this is so what numbnut at HSV announced there were selling 427?? Was that just a marketing ploy or did the business plan increase to 427 to help reduce the unit cost?

Bossxr8 · 22-04-2009, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

You people do realise dont you that the plan was 200 over 2 years.. 120 in the first batch and 80 in the second batch for the second year........
Sounds like to me the first batch has sold out..

More like they realised they won't sell 200 so decided to shut the program down early to save money, moving the cars offline for engine fitment and various other bits and pieces must be a hassle for them and costly too.

4Vman · 22-04-2009, 07:19 PM

The first year being late 08/09.... meaning the last 80 for 09/10...
Not sure if they will happen but the parts have already been made.
427 units was never an official position, it was a "wish" thrown around by some people, that's all.

More info:

The original plan was for about 16 units a month production, 3 "P" cars for sept.. production from oct.. do the math, 120/16= 7 months or roughly April for completion of the first 120... surprise surprise its april...

It wouldnt surprise me one bit if sales have gone to plan, the second batch isnt flagged for production till the end of the year anyway.

Bossxr8 · 22-04-2009, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The first year being late 08/09.... meaning the last 80 for 09/10...
Not sure if they will happen but the parts have already been made.
427 units was never an official position, it was a "wish" thrown around by some people, that's all.

They way HSV were trying to push it was that they will only build a maximum of 427, trying to talk it up with their usual smoke and mirrors. If they knew they probably could only do 200 then they shouldn't have said it. They have a habit of talking things up that end up being incorrect.

Remember the Holden engineering boss who said they will have a hybrid Commodore on the road by 2010, and how quickly the president backtracked on his comments. Then they talked up a diesel Commodore, which still is showing no signs of ever seeing the light of day.

4Vman · 22-04-2009, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

They way HSV were trying to push it was that they will only build a maximum of 427, trying to talk it up with their usual smoke and mirrors. If they knew they probably could only do 200 then they shouldn't have said it. They have a habit of talking things up that end up being incorrect.

Remember the Holden engineering boss who said they will have a hybrid Commodore on the road by 2010, and how quickly the president backtracked on his comments. Then they talked up a diesel Commodore, which still is showing no signs of ever seeing the light of day.

Nothing to do with HSV.. the media pushed the 427 number, not HSV, HSV merely floated the idea to support interest if it was strong enough....
Then everyone on here grabed it like rabid dogs and ran with it...
Same as the price, HSV never said officialy it was going to be 125K.. yet the media speculated it would be and again everyone here claimed it was going to be 125K, you'll notice from day 1 i said there was no way it would be 125K...
HSV's people were just as bemused.
"IF" 427 people put down a deposit im sure HSV would have found a way to build them, even if it took 2 years to do so, and knowing how Holden treat HSV that could well have been the case.
The other thing to remember is "if" 427 deposits were taken the price "may" have been closer to 130K...
Im sure some of you can read between the lines what that means...

388cube_edxr8 · 23-04-2009, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

plastic doesn't rust

:

Tell that to my old 1990 Toyolden Nova mate. I thought so too until I saw the interior of that thing. It was wierd...

jmack · 23-04-2009, 09:16 PM

well seen a white w427 tonight on ballarat rd in melb .looked like a clubby except for the badges,front bar and bob tail on the wing,but it did sound good.would say the manager of kevin dennis holden driving as was only down the rd.

TS50 · 24-04-2009, 08:22 AM

Well the first time i saw one, I almost mis took it for a standard Clubby
in actual fact if it wasnt for the W427 number plate, I wouldnt have known
Mind you we were both on the highway, going opposite directions at aboutt 110kms each
so was only a quick glimpse

motorcycles4eva · 08-05-2009, 08:56 PM

here is the first i've seen for sale.
http://australianmusclecarsales.com....25921-hsv-w427
not cheep..

Scott · 08-05-2009, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motorcycles4eva

here is the first i've seen for sale.
http://australianmusclecarsales.com....25921-hsv-w427

He's keen considering you can buy new ones with 10km's on them for a fair chunk less.

4Vman · 08-05-2009, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP006

He's keen considering you can buy new ones with 10km's on them for a fair chunk less.

Not as ambitious as some of the "sticker pack" cobra owners!!!

motorcycles4eva · 08-05-2009, 09:25 PM

http://australianmusclecarsales.com....00-shell-helix
this with some spare change suits me

cheek · 08-05-2009, 10:36 PM

i just read in Just Parts that you can buy the W427 engine for $22k :p that would be fairly awesome in a sportwagen...

Scott · 08-05-2009, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Not as ambitious as some of the "sticker pack" cobra owners!!!

Touché - point for point the Cobra buyers win easy... what were they, 150%?