Anyone heard anything on the Falcon wagon yet?

[FTE217]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Exactly...sort of create your own death warrant. Cost cutting led to no BA Fairmont or FG wagon derivative or major Terry updates, this leads to sales drops which then decreases the overall r&d budget, which then leads to decisions on which products are kept and axed....robbing Peter to pay Paul except they are in the same family. Just goes to show how a decision made 10 years ago has massive effects long after. EG if the AU was a sales success would the slow starvation of funds have occurred and would more money have allowed for better product provision to meet the changing customer buying decisions.

Dr Dr they had been making market blunders way before the AU......
As I said in an earlier post our local manufacturers have been taking consumers for a ride for years, not offering accesories that were in imported competitors cars std.....heck was it pov pack AU's and prior you only got power front windows ?
You had to beg to get up spec options if you ordered say an SR where as other competitors naming GM would do no worries if your willing to pay.
As you mention in your in your own sentence "create your own death" heck they started that dropping the V8 its been down hill since really.....
Playing catch up with limited funds and to this day marketing stratergies hardly hitting the mark and don't forget the average standard customer service standard at dealers has all contributed to the decline !
Its a comedy of errors TBH, when they had a strangle hold on the market the opposition was GM only with some imports......they have not read the market soon enough and as I said "reaction" is not the way to salvage lost business.

In saying the gloom above I dearly hope this restructure picks up the ball so to speak and runs but heck I'm sitting on the edge of my seat with HOPE !

[OZQUAD44]

1. If you don't water a plant it dies, do we blame the plant if it dies? Seems that there are a few people on here happy to write off the wagon as a bad business case. The fact is that the Falcon wagon hasn't had a drink since about 2002, some could argue longer than that. Its not that the market doesn't exist, its that the wagon was never taken to the market. Thats the only reason it is a bad business case now. Lets not forget that. Losing the falcon wagon is the best of a bad situation, not a smart business move.

2. Its too hard to get the Wagon to meet emission standards... What the hell did I miss here? Does the Falcon sedan meet emission standards? If it don't now it soon will and guess what, apart from some recent upgrades the Sedan and Wagon share the same motor, as they have for the past fifty years. Just plonk that latest version of the sedan motor into the wagon. Not bloody hard. The emissions argument is a cop out.

3. Has the Taurus been around for fifty years? No, Has the Mondeo been around for fifty years? No. Someone explain to me why these are better options than the Falcon? Taurus UgLeY!, Mondeo LaMe! Just because everyone else is doing it doesn't make it right. If America and England want to jump in the lake, are we going to join them? They wouldn't know a decent family sedan if it smacked them in the face! Never have never will. Look at a Lincon Town Car FFS, or even worse, look at a Zefer. These are the types of cars from whence the US and the UK markets came. Australia took a Yank throw away in the sixtys, the humble Falcon. Then gave it a make over to handle our environment and here we are fifty years later listening to Yanks and Brits waffle on about how great a Taurus and a Mondeo is. How dumb are we! No serious point here just me venting!

4. I think the butt ugly AU Falcon has put us here (helped in no small part by the reliability issues that plagued the EA). Poor sales back then, not enough investment money for now, not enough shiney new looking product to take to the market. FoMoCo had to cut somewhere. The only reason we still have the Falcon Sedan at the moment, is that the BA and the FG upgrades were both great piece's of work. Lets hope they nail the next Falcon upgrade, lest we all drive around in front wheel drive shopping trollys without soul for the rest of time. (I'll keep my, front heavy, slow as a wet week, Blah Blah Blah, GT, thanks very much. Because it is the best car I've ever owned, bar none)

P.S. I also blame the fugly over the bonnet headlight treatment on one of the latter model Magnas (the dame edna everage headlight look if you know what I'm on about) as one of the contributing factors for the failure of the 380, but thats a whole other story.

5. Yeah yeah, it cost Australia to have a car industry. So what! do you honestly think that our hospital system will suddenly be fixed overnight if we lose Ford, Holden, and Toyota manufacturing. Not likely my brothers, but I can guarantee that no child will live in poverty by 2001..... get a grip! Sure its great to spend money on services, but its equally as important to spend money on things to be produce in this country.. be it cars or whatever. You know that Aussie's make great cars, but politics keeps them down in the land under. Embrace the inner Bogan, don't fall for the prius trick.. Its a big bloody Con! How bout you go out any buy a new Falcon and we would have to worry about this whole mess.

5. OK rant off.... Smash me to bits fellas!

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Dr Dr they had been making market blunders way before the AU......

Very true, but nothing as big during a massive potential market. It led to a huge sales difference opening up between Commo and Falc followed by the costly BA changes to "fix things" which ate into R&D massively. Sales dropped, income drop, BA upgrade was more expense so it was a double reduced income/increase cost whammy. Sure big profits followed with BA for a few years but due to production limitations upstream, total sales couldn't match Commo and outputs have never been as high ever since.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by OZQUAD44

1. If you don't water a plant it dies, do we blame the plant if it dies? Seems that there are a few people on here happy to write off the wagon as a bad business case. The fact is that the Falcon wagon hasn't had a drink since about 2002, some could argue longer than that. Its not that the market doesn't exist, its that the wagon was never taken to the market. Thats the only reason it is a bad business case now. Lets not forget that. Losing the falcon wagon is the best of a bad situation, not a smart business move.

5. OK rant off.... Smash me to bits fellas!

One thing,
When Geoff Polites announced the Ford Territory would be built, he also announced the demise of the S/W.
If GP had his way, we would have had diesel V6 in Terry by 2006 and Falcon S/W would have disappeared.

It was always FoA's plan to migrate S/W buyers to Territory and that was happening in the early days
but thanks to Tom Gorman, the body remained basically unchanged for too many years and it hurt sales.
A new Territory will put things right, especially the diesel.

Ford never shied away from the decision to channel funds into Territory
and away from Fairlane, LTD and Station wagon because that's the way
the market and buyers were heading.

[davids_gxl]

Not good at all.

[spatel]

Shame about the Falcon Wagon but really Ford Oz could have done something about it.
Firstly they should have bought out an FG version to get the customers away from the AU/BA/BF incarnation they had. Yip money had to be spent but then you also advertise the hell out of it.

Territory and Falcon wagon are two seperate vehicles and I don't believe that a person would consider an SUV over a stationwagon for load lugging purposes.

Reason why Mondeo is selling well (in NZ) is because Ford have advertised it amongst fleet customers (and private) which has drummed up interest and therefore sales.

Hope to see an XR5 Mondeo wagon, that would stick it to the Olden Sportwagon!

[Mr Hardware]

Just remember guys, Toyota axed the camry wagon way back in 2002 and to this day the camry has retained its spot as a top ten seller. Don't think this is the start of the end of the falcon. It's just simply people prefer tezzas etc to trad wagons!

[xrford]

Unforntunantly you have to take risks in development to make a gain, a new FG platform with XR or G series models may have been a huge risk, but at the same time may have been a huge success provided they had of got onto it straight away.
A limited edition sports version should of been released at the start of the BF wagon before just letting it die off, this then would have then ended all discussion as to weather or not there was a market for non fleet buyers.
And before anyone says it would have cost too much or would have been to hard......i really dont see the issue if one can be built outside the factory and considering at the time it may very well have been in fords best interest.

In my opinion and without without being right or wrong, i think ticking both boxes for the fleet and private buyers market could have been a huge success instead of just sitting on the fence and killing it off.
I hope for fords sake the mondeo fills its boots but i honelstly dont think it will have much of a decent impact, i will stand corrected however if sales figures rapidly improve from what they are now.
As for the territiory the new diseasel engine can only be a good thing in times to come, but you have to ask yourself how long can you keep on selling an already 6 year old shape for untill that too needs developing?

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by xrford

i think ticking both boxes for the fleet and private buyers market could have been a huge success instead of just sitting on the fence and killing it off.

Private buyers still would not have bought it because it is quite frankly ugly.
Yes the front end with an XR front looks good, but it is the look of the back end that turns people off.

[xrford]

True i dont doubt that they look somewhat similar to a coffin carrier but at the end of the day thats a 12 yr old rear end which was designed for large boot space, better looks would come with a new model but the only way of doing that was to see if there was first more iterest than just fleet sales.

[outback_ute]

Ozquad, nice post but I would make a couple of responses to to things you've made.
1. The big change is the SUV market which has gone from negligible in 1990 to a big percentage of the market now, along with the trend to small cars affecting Falcon in general not just the wagon.
2. I gather they would have to compliance the wagon separately to the sedan, so there is a cost there. While the wagon was not costing anything Ford was clearly happy to keep it. In fact it was costing them in another way - dropping it will mean fewer variations on the production line so they will now be able to pump out more cars overall, including models that sell for a better return than fleet wagons.
3. I agree with you there is definitely an element of cultural cringe, and "we" as Australians are more reserved and don't promote ourselves as much as the US/UK. Surely the FG deserved the same hype as the Taurus and Mondeo, but didn't get it on launch. To some degree this was Ford's fault, they gave obvious targets like no curtain airbags, LPG and wagon models dragging the chain. Of course I many weeks/months later the non-curtain FG achieved 5-stars, but even so surely the cost of developing two side airbag systems in the first place for such a low-volume car was a waste. I would also say that Ford Aus was not on the front foot the same as Holden were with the VE which did get "world-beater" type coverage.
4. I don't think it is valid to be blaming the AU and earlier for the lack of sales. While that does have some effect, I would be looking at more closely at the BA and onwards. Sure the wagon and Fairlane severely dropped the ball in development but I don't think the sedan pulled its weight either, and they did get that right. I don't have figures to hand but it didn't actually sustain the same sales the AU had done, and has been on a slide since.

I think there has been a delay in a lot of programs at Ford Aus and it has really cost them, eg the new LPG system, Territory facelift and diesel.

xrford unfortunately in the current climate Ford is not in a gambling mood, I think they have gone too far the other way. I'm not sure you can successfully combine a fleet hack (which would be a mix between the current wagon and VT wagon) and an appealing family wagon. The Holden experience is not easy to nail down - on one hand you can say the wagon is basically stealing sales of sedans, on the other hand you could say it is what's maintaining sales levels and without it they would be much less, and some customers would be buying Foresters or Mazda 3's.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by spatel

Territory and Falcon wagon are two seperate vehicles and I don't believe that a person would consider an SUV over a stationwagon for load lugging purposes.

But they did,
nearly all the station wagon fraternity migrated over to Territory in the early days (2004/05),
it was just the Gorman didn't properly refresh the Territory or give the long promised diesel...
Had he done either of those two things we would said so long to the BF wagon in 2006.

[vztrt]

http://www.caradvice.com.au/62251/fo...tired-by-june/

Ford Falcon wagon to be retired by June

March 25, 2010 by Matt Brogan

Fairfax media is reporting that the Ford Falcon wagon will be discontinued from June this year as buyers continue to shy away from the large station wagon in favour of smaller wagons and SUVs.

The petrol-powered Falcon wagon, which has been a staple of Ford’s large car lineup since 1960, will be axed on the eve of its 50th anniversary. The Falcon wagon’s E-Gas variant will get a stay of execution until September.

The current Falcon wagon did not receive the latest round of engine and styling updates with the FG model in 2008, instead continuing with the BA/BF shape through a series of minor face-lifts. The wagon was also only made available in one, entry-level specification, the Falcon XT, which may have contributed in steering family buyers toward more highly specified models elsewhere in the Ford lineup.

Falcon wagon sales have steadily declined over the past decade, most notably since Ford introduced its popular Territory SUV model in April 2004. Last year, Ford sold fewer than 2500 Falcon wagon models, accounting for approximately 8 per cent of all Falcon model sales.

As the company car of choice, especially among large fleet buyers, the Ford Falcon wagon was renowned for its load carrying ability and no-nonsense design featuring a leaf sprung rear end straight out of Ford’s Falcon utility models. Sadly, fleet sales alone were not strong enough to keep the model alive.

“It’s done an outstanding job for us over the years and has certainly delivered to customer expectation,” said Ford Australia CEO, Mr Marin Burela.

“We’re very, very comfortable with the decision. It was a great car then … it still is a great car now, but we’re now moving forward.”

Locally, Ford buyers will now have a choice of two wagon derivatives: the slightly smaller European-sourced Mondeo, and the larger, Falcon-based Territory SUV. Ford will offer Territory with a turbo-diesel engine from next year, joining petrol- and LPG-powered variants.

Mr Burela says the demise of the Falcon wagon will allow more capacity for Ford’s Broadmeadows, Victoria plant, allowing greater production numbers of Territory and Falcon sedan models, including a more economic four-cylinder turbocharged Falcon sedan due later this year.

“My expectation – even without wagon as part of our mix in 2010 – is that our build volume will increase between 10 and 15 per cent.” said Mr Burela.

The news comes as the Australian-built Falcon faces an uncertain future with US parent’s ‘One Ford’ policy meaning the manufacturer will build a similar range of vehicles on shared platforms for global consumption. Ford Australia will look to platform sharing with US models such as the Taurus from 2014.

In an interesting twist, the death of the Ford Falcon wagon comes as direct rival, the Holden Commodore Sportwagon, enjoys increasingly strong sales.

Holden sold 14,635 Sportwagon variants in 2009, the figures making up almost half of Commodore’s total yearly sales of 29,752 units.

CarAdvice has contacted Ford Australia for further comment and will update this post as soon as new information comes to hand.

[jpd80]

Holden sold 14,635 Sportwagon variants in 2009, the figures making up almost half of Commodore’s total yearly sales of 29,752 units.

And in 2008 before the sportswagon was launched,
Holden sold over 50,000 Commodore sedans..

[Brazen]

I keep saying that the market is heading back to wagons and I predicted about 6 months ago that one day that we might see wagons becoming the dominant seller in most vehicles ranges like in Europe, I didnt expect it to be so obvious and so soon.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by jpd80

And in 2008 before the sportswagon was launched,
Holden sold over 50,000 Commodore sedans..

I have a feeling that the sales figures for the Commodore in the article are wrong. I think its 15000 wagons PLUS 30000 sedans, im not sure though.

[naddis01]

In 2009 there were over 44000 Commodores sold (sedan and wagon).

From Jan to May 2009 Commodore averaged around 3400 sales per month. In June (roughly when Sportswagon was released) to Dec 2009 Commodore averaged roughly 3920 sales per month.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by naddis01

From Jan to May 2009 Commodore averaged around 3400 sales per month. In June (roughly when Sportswagon was released) to Dec 2009 Commodore averaged roughly 3920 sales per month.

Scratch that. I am looking at the wrong year. : :MrT_anim:

Ok try again.

First half of 08 - Commodore sold 3556/month
Second half 09 - Commodore sold 4628/month (When Sportswagon was released)

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by naddis01

In 2009 there were over 44000 Commodores sold (sedan and wagon).

From Jan to May 2009 Commodore averaged around 3400 sales per month. In June (roughly when Sportswagon was released) to Dec 2009 Commodore averaged roughly 3920 sales per month.

By that logic Holden had a nett increase of 500/month but the
Sportwagon also canabalized sedan sales, approximately 1000/month

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by naddis01

Scratch that. I am looking at the wrong year. : :MrT_anim:

Ok try again.

First half of 08 - Commodore sold 3556/month
Second half 09 - Commodore sold 4628/month (When Sportswagon was released)

So when Sportwagon was released it increased Commodore sales almost 1100 a month? That is fantastic news for Holden and not surprising one bit.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by Brazen

So when Sportwagon was released it increased Commodore sales almost 1100 a month? That is fantastic news for Holden and not surprising one bit.

Not necessarily. You need to look at seasonally adjusted figures rather than just the raw data as it appears that they sell more Commodores in the later half of the year (atleast in 08 and 09).

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Brazen

So when Sportwagon was released it increased Commodore sales almost 1100 a month? That is fantastic news for Holden and not surprising one bit.

Sportwagon increased commodore sales by about 500/month but it also ate
into sedan sales by about 1000/month, something no doubt Ford is mindful of...

The difference between Falcon and Commodore isn't the wagon it's the sales mix,
Holden sell plenty of base model Omegas while Ford sell hardly any XTs.
Not that they're crying about it, mind you....

If Ford were to relaunch XT as R6 with the R6 Ute nose and let's sat the corporate 6R auto,
they would probably do rather well with fleet sales and give Holden a run for their money.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Brazen

So when Sportwagon was released it increased Commodore sales almost 1100 a month? That is fantastic news for Holden and not surprising one bit.

Sportswagon was launched in July 2008.

Compare the 6 months of sales in the second half of 2008 with the second half of 2007.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Brazen

So when Sportwagon was released it increased Commodore sales almost 1100 a month? That is fantastic news for Holden and not surprising one bit.

No, actually it canabalised sedan sales... Net gain not much...
It did show a trend away from sedans though, something Ford have been capitalising on since the Territory was released, its just taken Holden a while to respond...

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

Sportswagon was launched in July 2008.

Compare the 6 months of sales in the second half of 2008 with the second half of 2007.

From the figures I could find they averaged more per month in the second half of 08 compared to 07 yet the large car market was declining.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by naddis01

From the figures I could find they averaged more per month in the second half of 08 compared to 07 yet the large car market was declining.

"pipe fill" to build dealer stock will make the first 6 months over represented too....

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

"pipe fill" to build dealer stock will make the first 6 months over represented too....

Also when was the FG introduced, that would impact sales. If the Commodore was on a downward trend I think a graph showing Commodore sales and the introduction of the sportwagon would illustrate any influence.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Also when was the FG introduced, that would impact sales. If the Commodore was on a downward trend I think a graph showing Commodore sales and the introduction of the sportwagon would illustrate any influence.

The sales graphs show Commodore sales have reduced since Sportswagon launch..

There are no incremental sales.

Russell's sales graphs

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

The sales graphs show Commodore sales have reduced since Sportswagon launch..

There are no incremental sales.

Russell's sales graphs

I can see an upswing in the underlying trend, also these are 10 year graphs a time scale which will smooth out a lot of the influences affecting sales. A 12 month to 2 year time scale is more appropriate.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I can see an upswing in the underlying trend, also these are 10 year graphs a time scale which will smooth out a lot the influences affecting sales. A 12 month to 2 year time scale is more appropriate.

The visual trend is "status quo"... There is a pipe fill spike then return to "trend".
I understand why you're pushing the sportshatch barrow hard, but its not the messiah you're making it out to be.