Wheels Mag: The Top 20 Aussie Muscle Cars - Page 6

THE4RD · 28-08-2008, 08:42 AM

Wheels Magazine - credible?

They selected the Leyland P76 as a 'Car of the Year'

AND they called the Landau useless.

I prefer Street Fords Magazine's Top 20.

4Vman · 28-08-2008, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ianmcw

Wheels Magazine - credible?

They selected the Leyland P76 as a 'Car of the Year'

AND they called the Landau useless.

I prefer Street Fords Magazine's Top 20.

What a contrast in accuracy hey..!!!! (just kidding)

4Vman · 28-08-2008, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Ever wondered why the GT-HO was far more desirable than the GTS 350, its competitor at the time? Because it was simply quicker. Had it not been, I dare say the GT-HO wouldn't be as desirable as it is today.

Quicker as in it won the last true production based Bathurst combined with its a race engineered limited production Homologation "race special" status is the main reason..

FTE72 · 28-08-2008, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSbaby

I know I won't be popular by stating the T3 TE50's inclusion is also very dubious given it was only as quick as a Clubby... but the Clubby was mild in tune by comparison. The LS1s would put it to pasture fairly easily... that means a lot of SS Commodores. I don't understand why it's so deserving of its place in the top 20?

You are mistaken and obviously have not driven a T3. SS commodore put it to pasture.. get off the grass (pun intended)My STOCK T3 eats clubbies from its own era as well as the new ones, staight line or round corners.
And I would say unlike you, I have owned both cars, but the VX is long gone.

SSbaby · 28-08-2008, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FTE72

You are mistaken and obviously have not driven a T3. SS commodore put it to pasture.. get off the grass (pun intended)My STOCK T3 eats clubbies from its own era as well as the new ones, staight line or round corners.
And I would say unlike you, I have owned both cars, but the VX is long gone.

My cammed SS is long gone too!

You don't need to prove anything to me but... as I said, there were better HSVs around than your car. If you want to debate this further, I'd say ls1.com.au is your best bet. I'm sure the members there would be most happy to assist you ...

Need I remind you that this topic is about the article in Wheels mag, not about whose appendage is larger.

FTE72 · 28-08-2008, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSbaby

My cammed SS is long gone too!

You don't need to prove anything to me but... as I said, there were better HSVs around than your car. If you want to debate this further, I'd say ls1.com.au is your best bet. I'm sure the members there would be most happy to assist you ...

Need I remind you that this topic is about the article in Wheels mag, not about whose appendage is larger.

Then why do you make this sort of statement? You do not need to remind me of anything. You asked why the T3 was on the list and stated incorrecty about the competition, it is called right of reply.I do not need to have a debate with LS1 . com, as you post crap.

4Vman · 28-08-2008, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSbaby

My cammed SS is long gone too!

You don't need to prove anything to me but... as I said, there were better HSVs around than your car. If you want to debate this further, I'd say ls1.com.au is your best bet. I'm sure the members there would be most happy to assist you ...

Need I remind you that this topic is about the article in Wheels mag, not about whose appendage is larger.

Regardless of which one is "better" i don't see the point trolling yourself here just to stir the pot and push your obvious holden bias.

**Polyal** · 28-08-2008, 04:57 PM

Problem here is that its impossible to make a "muscle car" list when there is no clear definition really; its all opinion.

My opinion would be that the EB XR6 is just as deserving as the XR GT. Both are not quick, but for there time where market leaders and pushed the envelope.

The T3 is most definitely a modern muscle car, and as mentioned previously the first Ford in ages to finally match and eclipse GMH.

Another problem is the generation gap, and its simply to hard to compare cars that are 30-40 years apart! Again, the older crew on here would laugh at anything post 80's called a muscle car; even though those post 80's cars trounce the real "muscle" cars in just about every aspect other than fond memories.

nugget378 · 28-08-2008, 05:03 PM

Rubbish,there is a clear and accepted definition which has been in use for many years...

**Polyal** · 28-08-2008, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugget378

Rubbish,there is a clear and accepted definition which has been in use for many years...

Fine ill bite..which is? Wikipedia doesn't count.

**Falcon Coupe** · 28-08-2008, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Fine ill bite..which is? Wikipedia doesn't count.

This is close to the mark.

http://www.answers.com/topic/muscle-car

Scroll down to Australian muscle cars.

4Vman · 28-08-2008, 05:43 PM

This statement is as true as it gets:

"The Australian muscle car era is generally considered to have ended with the release of the Australian Design Rule regarding emissions in ADR27a in 1976."

Factory Musclecars only existed during the "musclecar era"...

nugget378 · 28-08-2008, 05:48 PM

I would have thought it was obvious,
Accepted definition of an Australian "muscle car"
must be a "sports style car" but not a sports car.
Must have a manual trans (at least as an option)
must have the most powerfull engine for the model..
steel bumpers (preferably chrome :P)
must be a model of obvious racing heritage or a homologation special.
must be made and sold primarily as a "race type" car,not just a sticker kit.

4Vman · 28-08-2008, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugget378

I would have thought it was obvious,
Accepted definition of an Australian "muscle car"
must be a "sports style car" but not a sports car.
Must have a manual trans (at least as an option)
must have the most powerfull engine for the model..
steel bumpers (preferably chrome :P)
must be a model of obvious racing heritage or a homologation special.
must be made and sold primarily as a "race type" car,not just a sticker kit.

EXACTLY...

Bathurst herritage is mandatory IMO.

Oh and made in Australia between 1967 and 1976!

SSbaby · 28-08-2008, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FTE72

Then why do you make this sort of statement? You do not need to remind me of anything. You asked why the T3 was on the list and stated incorrecty about the competition, it is called right of reply.I do not need to have a debate with LS1 . com, as you post crap.

Fine. I can deal with that. I also gave my reasons but you've missed the context. Sorry if I offended an emotional owner. I also think Wheels publish crap...

I just think Wheels could have better chosen their best muscle cars from each era rather than lumping 20 cars together without giving any second thought about their list. That's basically the gist of my comments. Having said that, the GT-HO is probably the most famous even though the E49 was reportedly quicker... in that regard it's hard to split them and probably both deserve their place as they were the best of that era. That's essentially how I would pick my muscle cars... and you might be surprised to know I haven't included the Torana in my personal top ten.

nugget378 · 28-08-2008, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nugget378

I would have thought it was obvious,
Accepted definition of an Australian "muscle car"
must be a "sports style car" but not a sports car.
Must have a manual trans (at least as an option)
must have the most powerfull engine for the model..
steel bumpers (preferably chrome :P)
must be a model of obvious racing heritage or a homologation special.
must be made and sold primarily as a "race type" car,not just a sticker kit.

Ill add one more thing to the list,it should be worth more today than the original purchase price

b2tf · 28-08-2008, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

This statement is as true as it gets:

"The Australian muscle car era is generally considered to have ended with the release of the Australian Design Rule regarding emissions in ADR27a in 1976."

Factory Musclecars only existed during the "musclecar era"...

I must say I find it very amusing that you make this statement yet only a few posts above you accuse another member of pushing his "biased opinion".

**Falcon Coupe** · 28-08-2008, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b2tf

I must say I find it very amusing that you make this statement yet only a few posts above you accuse another member of pushing his "biased opinion".

It's common knowledge not opinion.

If Wheels magazine decide to call my XA a late model performance car does that mean it is ?

The term Muscle car refers to the era as well as the type, they may not be as powerful as "Modern performance/sports cars" and that should not take anything away from new cars like some owners seem to think.

The new car owners feel they are being excluded from recognition but they have it in their own right.

4Vman · 28-08-2008, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b2tf

I must say I find it very amusing that you make this statement yet only a few posts above you accuse another member of pushing his "biased opinion".

Like others have confirmed its not just my opinion, its a widely held belief.

4Vman · 28-08-2008, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Having said that, the GT-HO is probably the most famous even though the E49 was reportedly quicker... in that regard it's hard to split them and probably both deserve their place as they were the best of that era. .

The XY GTHO Phase 3 is a far more revered musclecar than the E49.. infact id say most of the GT range is more revered too...
If price alone is any indication of its level of status an E49 can be bought for about 120K, about the same price as an XWGT or XAGT coupe, a Phase 3 will set you back 600+K... even a Phase 2 is over 250K...
The 1972 E49 isnt a patch on the 1971 XY GT-HO: a car that won what most consider to be the ultimate showroom Bathurst. A fact most people keep over looking is the correct model to compare with the Phase 3 is the E38... The Phase 4 was Fords answer to the E49, yet the Phase 3 still wooped it.
The fact is the XY GTHO was far faster, more powerful, better handling and better braking car than the E49, its lap times proved it and that's not opinion, its a fact.

mongoloid · 28-08-2008, 06:33 PM

surely definitions change over time to adapt to new models...

classic muscle vs modern muscle perhaps?

4Vman · 28-08-2008, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mongoloid

surely definitions change over time to adapt to new models...

classic muscle vs modern muscle perhaps?

That's a very good idea, i think i floated the idea once before:

"Classic Muscle": 1967 to 1976(ish).
"Post Classic Muscle": 1977(ish) to 1990
"Contemporary Muscle Performance": 1991 to present?

**Falcon Coupe** · 28-08-2008, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

That's a very good idea, i think i floated the idea once before:

"Classic Muscle": 1967 to 1976(ish).
"Modern Muscle": 1977(ish) to 1990
"Contemporary Performance": 1991 to present?

I was thinking categorising like that would be a good idea.

bingoTE50 · 28-08-2008, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

We didnt make skylines or sierras either.. someone didnt read the OP...

Just came back to this...Yes one uppercut for BingoTE50 ...Aussie made ...

: oops...

But still , most of our early cars were derivatives of other designs , Xr Xt had similar design cues from Yank Falcons , VB VC Commodores from Opel ..

Xd from Ford Granada - possibly ?

snakeoil · 28-08-2008, 07:11 PM

Bit harsh on the Chargers here they did get 3rd and 4th in 72 dealing with mechanical issues totally localised to OZ.In my tiny brain I look at the I6 obrut as the Charger and torana of that era

Muscle car nomenclature is maybe not that important in the long run it is all about the fact that aussies have always demanded the choice of good cars as the norm
An XY GT was about double the price of the base model which it kind of still is which I reckon is a bloody good thing

Cheers

**DJM83** · 28-08-2008, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSbaby

My cammed SS is long gone too!

You don't need to prove anything to me but... as I said, there were better HSVs around than your car. If you want to debate this further, I'd say ls1.com.au is your best bet. I'm sure the members there would be most happy to assist you ...

Need I remind you that this topic is about the article in Wheels mag, not about whose appendage is larger.

How about you hop back over to LS12345.com and go at it over there im sure your opinion will be revered over there.
Cammed SS, as in modified. I wonder if holden made them that way... dont think so.
Going from your posts in this thread how are you ever going to get some backing to your statements when you are posting with blinkers on.
T3 deserves to be on there as it IMO is a much better car then an R8 (yes i have drivin and been in both. Going from your comments i doubt you have seen a T3 let alone drivin one.
Also there are some GM models that deserve it aswell (only talking modern muscle)
VN SS GPA
VTII GTS 300
VK SS GPA
VL SS GPA
Whose appendage is larger eh, couldnt possibly a ford owner as i dont think we feel the need to brag as i (me) didnt buy my car to fit in with the crowd like most altezza powered commodores.

Only way holden get the upeer hand with MOST models was to 'get another crate motor' atleast with the T Series cars there was a hell of alot of work went into the motors especially the T3. I wont get started on the handling side of it either, not that that matters as holdens dont go around corners only hectik in a straight line

:
No off you go back to LS12345.com they are calling you

Fordmuscle1965 · 28-08-2008, 07:30 PM

Muscle Car = Factory Hot Rod.

The BEST FACTORY performance and handling package on offer at that time in that particular company's history! name any car and line it up against this quote and it basically summorizes the theory!

:

Bent8 · 28-08-2008, 08:14 PM

BA XR6T = muscle car??

tell us another joke!

I'm sorry but a muscle car must have an engine in V formation and with a minimum of 8 pots!!

Flame away, but this is a fact. (okay okay, it's my opinion ;))

220XR8 · 28-08-2008, 08:19 PM

Quoted in an earlier post

"The fact is the XY GTHO was far faster, more powerful, better handling and better braking car than the E49, its lap times proved it and that's not opinion, its a fact."

Having owned one and driven both of the above i have to disagree that the GTHO was a better handling car, the term "floats like a boat comes to mind". Maybe HO race cars were different but those on the road were ordinary 30+ years ago and still are today. And the brakes, a term I use loosely, were terrible on both.

nugget378 · 28-08-2008, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 220XR8

Quoted in an earlier post

"The fact is the XY GTHO was far faster, more powerful, better handling and better braking car than the E49, its lap times proved it and that's not opinion, its a fact."

Having owned one and driven both of the above i have to disagree that the GTHO was a better handling car, the term "floats like a boat comes to mind". Maybe HO race cars were different but those on the road were ordinary 30+ years ago and still are today. And the brakes, a term I use loosely, were terrible on both.

Put a set of aquajets on any modern car and see how well it handles..