3L - 195kw, 620nm, 6.1L/100km - Build a bloody Turbo Diesel Falcon already!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by naddis01

I would have thought the 2.7 TDCi out of the Territory in the Falcon would do low 7's at worst. Our Mazda 6 (near enough to 1600kg) is rated at 5.9L/100km and is averaging only a touch over 6 in real figures.

And you'd be right too because the previous 2.7 Jag XF was
Combined 7.5
Urban - 10.4
Extra Urban - 5.8

Jag have now fitted the TT 3.0, improved performance and economy into the 6s.
Also, XF is slightly heavier than FG.....

PS, I've found that Extra Urban equates to best fuel economy you can reasonably expect.
A Falcon that gets 5.8 l/100 km, that's bloody incredible......

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

If they fitted the 2.7 TDCi out of the Territory to the Falcon with a manual option I would bet my bottom dollar that it would better the Territory's 8.2L/100klm combined cycle...being a lighter more aerodynamic car and all. Maybe 7.9L/100klm combined cycle?

Interesting that the ZF gets better fuel economy then the manual on the I6's.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Interesting that the ZF gets better fuel economy then the manual on the I6's.

ZF converter locks up in all gears improving efficiency and reducing transient throttle movements.

[kpcart]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yeh always 18 months.

I really liked the 2009 supercharged V8 commodore.
Oh and the 2003 6 speed auto commodore.
Come to thing of it the 2001 turbo commodore was a ripper......

Anyone who thinks that people buy holdens because they really want fords but ford just does not have the exact model they dream about should not be on here at the moment as the "One eye fanboi association" are having their weekly after school meeting at maccas car park and you are late.....

whats your problem? you sound like the fanboy with your defence. by the way holden had a supercharged motor long ago with the v6.

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by kpcart

whats your problem? you sound like the fanboy with your defence. by the way holden had a supercharged motor long ago with the v6.

The same SCV6 that was belted by a standard Falcon 6?
Right, can you link me to the threads you started
On any Holden or Toyota forum where you whined and moaned about the
Lack of diesels in their
Large car range?


If you haven't started a thread there yet you find it worthwhile to moan about the fact they also won't have as many as 5 different motors with up to 7 different power levels in their large car ranges like the Falcon will have in a couple of months from now.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by kpcart

From Wheels: http://motoring.ninemsn.com.au/cars/...class-facelift

the new c-class mercedes (nearly as heavy as a falcon these days):
"Its upgraded 3.0-litre turbo-diesel V6 now produces 195kW and 620Nm (up 30kW/110Nm), yet the slurp drops to 6.1L/100km (ADR average, down from 7.4)"

I have driven a 2007 merc c-class. it had a 1.9L 4cyl turbo diesel which made 400nm torque! and felt super smooth with the torque and quite rapid.

why cant they at least put that 2.7/3.0L jaguar turbo-diesel into the falcon like they have with the territory? imagine how sweet and smooth it would be to drive a 500nm falcon that only uses about 7-8l of diesel per 100km?

Interestingly enough it take a 4.5l twin turbo V8 from Toyota to make the same power and 30nm more torque from their diesel engine. That's an extra 2 cylinders and 1.5 litres required to match the Euro diesels. Just saying

[4.0i OHC]

Originally Posted by kpcart

whats your problem? you sound like the fanboy with your defence. by the way holden had a supercharged motor long ago with the v6.

VY Supercharged V6- 171 kw and 375 Nm
BA Naturally Aspirated I6- 182 kw and 380 Nm
BA Turbo I6- 240kw and 450 Nm

The Buick motor was a dud. The original VN V6 made less power than an XA 250 almost 20 years older, how behind was Ford then? The Alloytec isn't much better. I know Holden fans gravely disappointed in the performance of Commodore sixes.

[whales]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yeh always 18 months.

I really liked the 2009 supercharged V8 commodore.
Oh and the 2003 6 speed auto commodore.
Come to thing of it the 2001 turbo commodore was a ripper......

Anyone who thinks that people buy holdens because they really want fords but ford just does not have the exact model they dream about should not be on here at the moment as the "One eye fanboi association" are having their weekly after school meeting at maccas car park and you are late.....

Perhaps Maccas is waiting for you.

Dont forget Holden had RTS,IRS,SRS,ESC, LHD, a supercharged and a turbocharged engines all long before Ford did.

So back into your Big Mac box

[whales]

Originally Posted by fairlaneman

VY Supercharged V6- 171 kw and 375 Nm
BA Naturally Aspirated I6- 182 kw and 380 Nm
BA Turbo I6- 240kw and 450 Nm

The Buick motor was a dud. The original VN V6 made less power than an XA 250 almost 20 years older, how behind was Ford then? The Alloytec isn't much better. I know Holden fans gravely disappointed in the performance of Commodore sixes.

Your right in what you say but it the original comments wasn't about how good they were purely who had what first.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by whales

Perhaps Maccas is waiting for you.

Dont forget Holden had RTS,IRS,SRS,ESC, LHD, a supercharged and a turbocharged engines all long before Ford did.

So back into your Big Mac box

Just wondering what LHD Australian built holden was for sale in 1989?
Ford built lots of LHDs in Australia and exported them to USA.

Which factory supercharged V8 vehicle did holden make in Australia?
While you are at it, tell me about the first holden with a V8 of any type?

How about Australian built car with "sports automatic"?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by whales

Your right in what you say but it the original comments wasn't about how good they were purely who had what first.

That's right, it was about Holden headlining vehicles it was supposedly
developing but could not bring to market due to lack of business case.

It's less about who does what first and more about who can afford to do what..

Holden talks LPG for Commodore and Ford delivers E-gas and EcoLPI
Holden talks V6 diesel for Commodore and Ford delivers V6 diesel Territory
Holden talks I-4 DI Turbo Commodore and Ford delivers Ecoboost falcon.


Anyone see the pattern?

Holden talks.....Ford delivers.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by jpd80

It's less about who does what first and more about who can afford to do what..

Holden talks LPG for Commodore and Ford delivers E-gas and EcoLPI
Holden talks V6 diesel for Commodore and Ford delivers V6 diesel Territory
Holden talks I-4 DI Turbo Commodore and Ford delivers Ecoboost falcon.


Anyone see the pattern?

Holden talks.....Ford delivers.

You could make that into an advert.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by vztrt

You could make that into an advert.

No, I'm not that nasty, I'm just saying that:

Holden is getting support for exports but maybe missing key home products
Ford is getting support for key home products but missing out on exports....

Different strokes for different folks...

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by jpd80

No, I'm not that nasty, I'm just saying that:

Holden is getting support for exports but maybe missing key home products
Ford is getting support for key home products but missing out on exports....

Different strokes for different folks...

Ford are missing out on exports but I don't see this happening unless they go GRWD. Otherwise say bye bye to Falcon.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Ford are missing out on exports but I don't see this happening unless they go GRWD. Otherwise say bye bye to Falcon.

Why?
All Ford has to do is share power train and electrical systems with F150/Mustang and most of the
high end costs are covered, you don't have to "zeta" Falcon and Mustang to get scales of economy.

[z80]

Originally Posted by flappist

Just wondering what LHD Australian built holden was for sale in 1989?
Ford built lots of LHDs in Australia and exported them to USA.

While you are at it, tell me about the first holden with a V8 of any type?

How about Australian built car with "sports automatic"?

I'll have a guess or two...

He probably meant LSD instead of LHD....

First Holden V8 was HK/HT/HG series 1968 to 1971...253/307/350 V8's
all damn good engines....optional LSD.

First Australian built car with sports automatic was Magna, which incidentally blew away both Holden and Ford 6's.

Being first ain't the recipe for success...in fact quite the opposite, you are more likely to go broke according to history if you are first..

Anyone who thinks that an AWD falcon is the way to go.....

Which defunct australian car maker is the only one to have made an AWD sedan ?

Should Ford be first? Is Holden playing it smarter?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by z80

Being first ain't the recipe for success...in fact quite the opposite, you are more likely to go broke according to history if you are first..

GM should know all about that because they went broke in 2009.......

[b0son]

Originally Posted by fairlaneman

VY Supercharged V6- 171 kw and 375 Nm
BA Naturally Aspirated I6- 182 kw and 380 Nm

Conveniently, you ignore weight. The marginally higher power couldnt overcome the amount of pork the BA put on.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by flappist

How about Australian built car with "sports automatic"?

how about australian built car with paddle shift?

[landau460]

This is a see saw game. Ford do something better or first before holden then holden do something better or before ford.
Holden did the coupe four 4wd.
What about ford the first to win at Bathurst
Ford the first v8 to win at Bathurst
Ford the first to win the Tooheys 1000
The first to win the FAI 1000
Ford put an overhead cam v8 first before Holden
Ford first four wheel disc brake set up in australia
Ford came with a v8 first
But im sure Holden did a lot of things first just sayin lol

[b0son]

were Ford first with ABS? friend's EA S had it... dont recall it being on the commodore at the time.

[4.0i OHC]

Originally Posted by b0son

how about australian built car with paddle shift?

True, but it's not useful on road cars, and was promptly removed in the next model.

[4.0i OHC]

Originally Posted by b0son

Conveniently, you ignore weight. The marginally higher power couldnt overcome the amount of pork the BA put on.

The BA was also a larger car than the VY.

The power delivery was smoother. The BA was also more refined, had a better engine note, handled better, had much more comfortable seats, a better driving position, and better steering feel. I also found it to be better looking (even though the Commodore wasn't bad compared to the previous model). I know which car I'd rather drive.

Oh, and the Falcon was available in manual, even if not many specified it that way.

[4.0i OHC]

Originally Posted by z80

Anyone who thinks that an AWD falcon is the way to go.....

Why would we need an all wheel drive Falcon?

[HULK EF]

Originally Posted by fairlaneman

Why would we need an all wheel drive Falcon?

ask the american honchos that think an AWD and fwd platform are good for us in a couple of years time!!!

[4.0i OHC]

Originally Posted by HULK EF

ask the american honchos that think an AWD and fwd platform are good for us in a couple of years time!!!

Maybe.... but not in a Falcon, which has always been and should always stay RWD!

Edit: Does anyone remember that ugly ovoid Taurus brought to Australia around the time of the EF Falcon? Ford hyped it up so much, positioning it as a 'premium' alternative to the Falcon. Car magazines of the time described it as leading to the future of the Falcon.

What ended up happening?

It FAILED. The car simply wasn't very good. After the launch hype had worn off, Wheels printed a comparison between an EF II Fairmont and the Taurus Ghia. The RWD I6 Fairmont bettered the FWD V6 Taurus in every respect.

Wheels rightly asked the question: "Why is the Taurus here?"

If the bosses over in the US believe that the Australian public is going to accept the Taurus (be it brought here as a Taurus or rebadged as a Falcon), then they are deluding themselves.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by fairlaneman

Maybe.... but not in a Falcon, which has always been and should always stay RWD!

Edit: Does anyone remember that ugly ovoid Taurus brought to Australia around the time of the EF Falcon? Ford hyped it up so much, positioning it as a 'premium' alternative to the Falcon. Car magazines of the time described it as leading to the future of the Falcon.

What ended up happening?

It FAILED. The car simply wasn't very good. After the launch hype had worn off, Wheels printed a comparison between an EF II Fairmont and the Taurus Ghia. The RWD I6 Fairmont bettered the FWD V6 Taurus in every respect.

Wheels rightly asked the question: "Why is the Taurus here?"

If the bosses over in the US believe that the Australian public is going to accept the Taurus (be it brought here as a Taurus or rebadged as a Falcon), then they are deluding themselves.

I am led to understand that whilst proposals have been finalised, the final decision has been postponed to next year to see whether the Falcon's fortunes improve with a facelift and some new powertrain tech.

[arm79]

Originally Posted by fairlaneman

Maybe.... but not in a Falcon, which has always been and should always stay RWD!

If the bosses over in the US believe that the Australian public is going to accept the Taurus (be it brought here as a Taurus or rebadged as a Falcon), then they are deluding themselves.

The one thing we all have to ultimately remember, as much as we dont like it, is that the profits and turnover of Ford Australia manufacturing plants generate is a pi$$y drop in the ocean compared to the rest of the company.

And ultimately that will decide its fate, and we will get what we are given. From a global business perspective, I can't see dropping the Falcon and Territory as no great loss to Ford. If they give us an AWD Taurus and we don't buy it, no great loss to them. Its not like they have a whole factory and staff sitting around building cars they can't sell, tying up cash. It's just 500 build slots they will fill with US spec cars.

The only tangible thing Ford will loose is the brains and long term RWD engineering experience our guys have.

The old Taurus they tried here only proves they are happy to throw a few bucks at trying to get us to like it, and it it don't work, just walk away, nothing really lost.

[whales]

Originally Posted by flappist

Just wondering what LHD Australian built holden was for sale in 1989?
Ford built lots of LHDs in Australia and exported them to USA.

Which factory supercharged V8 vehicle did holden make in Australia?
While you are at it, tell me about the first holden with a V8 of any type?

How about Australian built car with "sports automatic"?

Blah blah blah

Holden are selling at least 3 commodores to every falcon and making a truck load more profit.

Holden must be laughing at the way Ford is going

[arm79]

Originally Posted by whales

Holden are selling at least 3 commodores to every falcon and making a truck load more profit.

Holden must be laughing at the way Ford is going

I suppose you haven't actually read that Holden are technically broke and would struggle to get a loan to buy one of their own cars.

2010 was their first year in the black in 6 years after 5 consecutive years of losses totalling over $500mil.

And of their 2010 profit of $112 mil, $100mil was contributed by taxpayers via funding to put the Cruze line in.

In the same year, Ford Aus made a profit of $25 mil.

They might be making more cars and they might be keeping their dealers in some cash, but the HQ is definitely on the side of poor and needy.