FG2 FPV's

[AMGC63]

Originally Posted by Buttnekid

it really would not be hard to upgrade springs, shocks and swaybars. If it cost me just shy of $2,500 for top of the line eibach's, adjustable konis and whiteline adjustable F & R, given FPV's buying power and they are part owned by Prodrive you woudl think they could get those components for a cost of $1,000, less a rebate from Ford for not using Ford supplied items (if that is what happens at the moment) or less what FPV are currently spending on springs and shocks - increase the price of the car by $1500 (now you have a 50% margin on top of your cost) and you fix the problem of handling. 275's fit on a 9.5 rear rim without any modification and fix the traction problem (to an extent).

I actually cannot understand the reason for this not happening either across the board or as a handling option - would the general public pay say another $2.5k on top of current prices to get better suspension/bigger rear wheels - without blinking I would have thought

The cost implications are more than $2500 though, its the ammortisation of the R+D too, if it costs you $2500 retail to buy the mods it will likely be closer to $5000 as an OEM solution. Because aftermarket bits don't have to conform to OEM standards, OEM validation and ADR testing requirements and recalibration.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by dimka100

The Sydney motor show is almost here … if FPV do not have any FG2 products on display then what are they gonna show??? The Fake Black Edition? The run out deals? Sounds like they need something fresh …

The Sydney motorshow has refused to play ball and has retained its 3rd quart date for 2012 instead of the more desirable mid year date.

[dimka100]

I’m completely with you on this one mate! I totally do not understand why FPV just cannot fit a more appropriate suspension setup for a “performance” car.

I mean really the stiffer springs or sway bars do not actually cost more than the softer variety, better shocks will cost a bit more but that may end up raising the price of an car by no more than $1000.

To me FPV are just plain lazy … and it’s another proof that it is a company run by mostly straight-line only bogan type enthusiasts …

Originally Posted by Buttnekid

it really would not be hard to upgrade springs, shocks and swaybars. If it cost me just shy of $2,500 for top of the line eibach's, adjustable konis and whiteline adjustable F & R, given FPV's buying power and they are part owned by Prodrive you woudl think they could get those components for a cost of $1,000, less a rebate from Ford for not using Ford supplied items (if that is what happens at the moment) or less what FPV are currently spending on springs and shocks - increase the price of the car by $1500 (now you have a 50% margin on top of your cost) and you fix the problem of handling. 275's fit on a 9.5 rear rim without any modification and fix the traction problem (to an extent).

I actually cannot understand the reason for this not happening either across the board or as a handling option - would the general public pay say another $2.5k on top of current prices to get better suspension/bigger rear wheels - without blinking I would have thought

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Marketing 101 - Make the customer think they're getting something fresh and new.

And if the motor vehicle market was so simple that it could be solved using first year student exercises then maybe that would be the way to do it.

It is not hard to sell the first FPV, retaining customer loyality when your pride and joy is diminished and devalued shortly after you buy it and the trade in value has gone through the floor makes it a lot more difficult.

There are a LOT of members on here as well as ordinary people who have no interest in internet fora who have bought at least one and some several NEW FPVs who are currently driving something else or are planning to buy something else. Ask them why.
Solving the problems of resale and build quality would do more for the credibility and market acceptance of FPV than increasing engine power.

Interestingly the best selling FPV models ever did not have any badges depicting engine power at all.

[Rodge]

Flappist - BF2 Typhoon to FG F6 270 kw's increased to 310 kw's.

The market has an expectation that the KW count will go up especially after 4 years and as mentioned above they have the capability and gearbox to do this with very little outlay, so why wouldn;t they want to keep sales of the F6 perculating along ? (Resale and quality control debates are clearly outside the scope of this thread's topic so I'm not going to debate them here).

Dimka100 - All FPV suspension tuning is done by Prodrive on the racetrack. If you'd had the opportunity to take one on the track you'd find they handle very well, BUT they're primarily designed for normal road use...what part of that is so hard to understand ?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by dimka100

I’m completely with you on this one mate! I totally do not understand why FPV just cannot fit a more appropriate suspension setup for a “performance” car.

I mean really the stiffer springs or sway bars do not actually cost more than the softer variety, better shocks will cost a bit more but that may end up raising the price of an car by no more than $1000.

To me FPV are just plain lazy … and it’s another proof that it is a company run by mostly straight-line only bogan type enthusiasts …

You really have no idea here at all.

FPV is run by a lot of very clever people, if it were not they would have gone out of business a long time ago.

Stiff suspension may appeal to a tiny group some of whom may even by a new FPV but there is a lot more to the engineering requirements than just bolting them on.

But the most obvious hole in you plan is that a few years ago FPV did make a model with upgraded suspension. RSpec ring a bell?
They sold very slowly so it was obviously it was not as issue.

Upgraded brakes are an option on most models, thses also do not sell.

Just wondereing did you order upgraded suspension or upgraded brembos of your FPV?
I did on my last one and it was the only one like it ever sold by the dealer.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by flappist

There are a LOT of members on here as well as ordinary people who have no interest in internet fora who have bought at least one and some several NEW FPVs who are currently driving something else or are planning to buy something else. Ask them why.
Solving the problems of resale and build quality would do more for the credibility and market acceptance of FPV than increasing engine power.

Spot on, repeat business will make FPV more money than a 350kw F6 with 12 piston brembo's ever would.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Flappist - BF2 Typhoon to FG F6 270 kw's increased to 310 kw's.

It was pretty well known that the BA/BF Typhoon (F6) made more power than Ford ever claimed it did..........

[AMGC63]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Flappist - BF2 Typhoon to FG F6 270 kw's increased to 310 kw's.

So maybe they shouldn't have jumped up so far then for FG?

Originally Posted by Rodge

The market has an expectation that the KW count will go up especially after 4 years

Are you really sure??? or is it an expectation for playground bragging rights?

As an example how long has the SS been at 260/270kw and it sells like hot cakes. In-fact the auto SS went backward 10kw and increased sales at the same time...
How many output badges are there on the SS's?

Badges don't sell cars, the quality of the product including its overall performance capabilities is most important.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by AMGC63

Badges don't sell cars, the quality of the product including its overall performance capabilities is most important.

I agree, power output badges on the car are tacky. BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo etc, none of them do it.

[EFFalcon]

Lamborghini kinda do..... LP550 - LP560 - LP570

[AMGC63]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

I agree, power output badges on the car are tacky. BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo etc, none of them do it.

We seem to be the only country that do it, in many ways its a sad indictment on the mentality or narrow mindedness of the buyers HSV and FPV are trying to sell to...

[blk6t]

The suspension in the GT is fine for me, the roads in my area are horrible and I don't want it any firmer.

[dimka100]

Did you read that in a marketing brochure?

This must be the reason why FPV did NOT upgrade the sway bars, or the shock absorbers, and as for the springs they softened up the rear springs a bit to help power down and then had to stiffen up the front springs a tiny bit to compensate … looks like track tuning at its best!

An yes I did take one for a test drive and it’s a la XR6T with slightly better tires and great brakes (6 piston upgrade) …

Originally Posted by Rodge

Dimka100 - All FPV suspension tuning is done by Prodrive on the racetrack. If you'd had the opportunity to take one on the track you'd find they handle very well, BUT they're primarily designed for normal road use...what part of that is so hard to understand ?

[AMGC63]

Originally Posted by dimka100

This must be the reason why FPV did NOT upgrade the sway bars, or the shock absorbers, and as for the springs they softened up the rear springs a bit to help power down and then had to stiffen up the front springs a tiny bit to compensate … looks like track tuning at its best!

Oh dear...

Ok, so improving the "drive" characteristics of the car and inducing a bit of "push" in a car notoriously over powered and typically driven by novice motoring enthusiasts on suburban roads is some how bad?

Id say the engineers would be quite smart doing something like that because under-steer (push) is FAR safer and easier to control, especially with 350rwkw under your right foot than over-steer...

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by AMGC63

We seem to be the only country that do it, in many ways its a sad indictment on the mentality or narrow mindedness of the buyers HSV and FPV are trying to sell to...

Now you're just being silly and argumentative for the sake of it, mind you, you're not the only one here on that track...
The HSV / FPV number on the back thing is part of the landscape now like it or not.

Responding to various comments above, CBF'd repeating them as quotes.

BF Typhoon made more than 270 kw's...and that's a different approach from their
current models, how exactly ? FPV's approach seems to be to put a badge on their
back that very close to the rwkw rating and the harm in that is what ?

Who cares what Lamborgini or Porsche are doing with their badges, how is that even
in the slightest bit relevant to FPV's or HSV's ?

Seeing as people seem to want to go into re-sale here's my experience BF2 Typhoon,
resale after 3 years 66.6% of my cost, FG F6 resale after one year 82.8% WTF's wrong
with that ? OTOH if people are paying full retail up front they're likely to have a
considerably different experience.

This must be the reason why FPV did NOT upgrade the sway bars, or the shock absorbers, and as for the springs they softened up the rear springs a bit to help power down and then had to stiffen up the front springs a tiny bit to compensate … looks like track tuning at its best!

I'm calling B.S. What would you know about FPV's suspension ? on second thoughts, don't make any more of a fool of yourself.

[TS50]

Depends on what you are using your FPV for
For my use, I definitely wouldnt want a firmer suspension
Its a everyday used car
It is used on a lot of shocking potholed roads here in Tasmania (yep even our main highway is a absolute disgrace.) I still want some comfort
However if my car was used as a weekend warrior / garage queen such as my TS50, I may want a firmer suspension. But as a car I drive everyday, I think the suspension setup isnt too bad, a pretty good compromise
I may be wrong, but I would think that more than 70% of people that buy a FPV would have the same attitude

Please note this is my opinion only

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by AMGC63

The cost implications are more than $2500 though, its the ammortisation of the R+D too, if it costs you $2500 retail to buy the mods it will likely be closer to $5000 as an OEM solution. Because aftermarket bits don't have to conform to OEM standards, OEM validation and ADR testing requirements and recalibration.

Where would Prodrive stand with their planned "PPP" lineup with such regulations? Maybe a return of the Koni option from the T-Series would be the ticket. Not R-Spec, something brand name thats known and respected.

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Where would Prodrive stand with their planned "PPP" lineup with such regulations? Maybe a return of the Koni option from the T-Series would be the ticket. Not R-Spec, something brand name thats known and respected.

They would be sold as aftermarket products, no different to how Herrod or KPM operate.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Where would Prodrive stand with their planned "PPP" lineup with such regulations? Maybe a return of the Koni option from the T-Series would be the ticket. Not R-Spec, something brand name thats known and respected.

And that is the trick.

Sell the basic vehicle and then have a few "factory supported" after market options.

When I bought my second F6 there was the "John Bowe Signature" allegedly factory supported range of options.

I had the cambre kit, spring kit and later Bilstein shockies fitted by the dealer. It was all good until I had a problem and then it went a pear shaped. I was lucky my dealer stood by me and sorted the "warranty" which I suspect he paid for himself.

Of course any range of "factory supported options" would still be restricted and would definitely not include and engine tune upgrades but wheels, suspension, brakes and bling would probably not be a problem.

[FPV GTHO]

Well brakes and suspension seem to be the 2 largest criticisms. Wheels too but without a stronger diff and shafts, wider wheels is going to reduce the life of something.

[Rodge]

^^ I'm with TS50 but suspect the percentage of people happy with the current suspension is in the 90% plus range. (Roads in N.Z. are generally pretty awful). Really enjoying the six pot brembo's, all you'd ever need for normal enthusiastic road use.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Well brakes and suspension seem to be the 2 largest criticisms. Wheels too but without a stronger diff and shafts, wider wheels is going to reduce the life of something.

The brakes issue always amuses me. There is an upgraded option but very few actually buy it usually with some excuse that it is too expensive and they cand get brakes off "insert expert here" for $2.75 plus a slab.

[Rodge]

^^^ Maybe if FPV were more realistic with pricing that option...
Speaking of brakes as we know the real black edition had bigger brakes, wonder if those new stoppers will be an option on FG2 FPV's, I would have thought so after all massive 380mm W427 brakes are an option of regular HSV's are they not ?

[gtfpv]

holy moly . lots of keyboard professors here justifying upgraded suspensions , and fixes <<< if you can call things broken on the current model ohhhh and increased prices accordingly .
so i take it all the people saying this ( what they want in the FG FPV MKII ) have a current FPV and will not buy another till all these improvements , price increases and fixes are implemented then .
FPV hope you are reading this thread cause it seems a ll of buyers arent buying your stock standard cars here untill you up the price and equipment

anybody posting in this thread . in the market for 2nd hand bf/fg xr6's or g6e's show yourselves

[Rodp]

If the F6 came standard with firmer suspension, I probably wouldn't have bought mine. It'll never see the track and comfort driving around crappy Sydney roads is paramount.

[AMGC63]

Why is it that the people who actually own a FG FPV are the ones who are most happiest with the suspension tune... Food for thought..?

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Rodge

I agree but it was the F6 310 which is what most of us were talking about in terms of needing / not needing a power upgrade. That's the one that will have had the same 310 output for four years by the time FG2 comes around.

I still say there are other parts of the car that I would rather see targeted by FPV then power output. If FPV cannot do more then just up the power on its cars then they might as well shut up shop.

Originally Posted by Buttnekid

I actually cannot understand the reason for this not happening either across the board or as a handling option -

The fact that you think an after market supplier and FPV are the same shows why your posting on here and not working for FPV.

Originally Posted by flappist

The brakes issue always amuses me. There is an upgraded option but very few actually buy it usually with some excuse that it is too expensive and they cand get brakes off "insert expert here" for $2.75 plus a slab.

Like other pieces of the car. Apparently tons of kw can be easily extracted and made emissions compliant because ABC performance can do it easily.....mind you when ABC performance stuff it up and internet 'expert' is angry cause FPV won't give them warranty then its FPV's fault.

[TS50]

Originally Posted by AMGC63

Why is it that the people who actually own a FG FPV are the ones who are most happiest with the suspension tune... Food for thought..?

Exactally

[meatbag]

Just chucking my opinion in here as a person who has never owned a ford or a holden but looking at a GS ute currently....

I honestly don't know how the current FPV's pass ADR's with those **** poor attempts of brakes. I've seen $2000 ford lasers with bigger discs than these 2 tonne beasts with australias most powerful engine. Combined with a overly street orientated pad that can see fade from a spirited drive only, it's a death trap waiting for some poor fool.

Suspension wise it's got everything most people need/ want. Leaf springs are rather outdated but for the job of load carrying, do the required job well. If I wanted a car fo the racetrack, I'd keep my current wrx. Almost everyone I've known to buy performance cars never see the track except for maybe a skid pan or sometimes one or two private days. For the most part, decent suspension is wasted anyway with the drivers being the weakest link.

Regardless, I will be buying my ute. The first thing I will be doing though is whacking on a set of 6 pots and some decent pads. I'm buying the car for the pure muscle. Not the handling or the badge. For the price that would be required to get the complete package, I'd stick to my jap crap. Both fords and holdens are way overpriced as they are. The only reason they have stayed in buisness is because of the taxes applied to all imports.