Ford executives comment on the future of Falcon and Territory

[Fordman1]

My tip ...

An announcement of joint funding (Ford and Govenment) for the next mid cycle facelift to Falcon.

A little sheetmetal and some plastic, that's all, in 2 years.

[BroadyFord]

There are a couple more articles on Go Auto but haven't got time to post them.

One says that exports are out due to the high AUD.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Some believe it's darkest right before dawn.......

Detroit Motor Show?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Detroit Motor Show?

Uh huh........

[BroadyFord]

A bit of a worry that ford had delayed an announcement.

They would need to make one before August next year before the next government comes in when the whole scene for automotive funding changes.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

A bit of a worry that ford had delayed an announcement.

They would need to make one before August next year before the next government comes in when the whole scene for automotive funding changes.

There is alot to be excited about based off those Go-Auto articles. Good news will be forthcoming.

Heck, short term, Ford Aus just got $50M to spend on Falcon from Ford US two days ago.

Originally Posted by GoAuto

J Mays said “Melbourne offered up a feeling of the surface – it was really nice. It wasn’t a particular headlamp or something like that, but those guys do great work, and consistently so.”

“We haven’t said anything about D/E vehicle platforms globally,” said Mr Hinrichs.

"We’ve got Mustang, we’ve got Falcon and we’ve got Taurus, but we have time for it to evolve and see we’re we are going to go with that."

“Trust me, I understand the interest in the future of Falcon and Broadmeadows. Believe me, I do."

“At the same time, we don’t talk about any of our manufacturing plans beyond a certain timeframe, so you guys might draw certain conclusions right or wrong.

“That’s why we get so anxious sometimes because we’re saying ‘we’re putting EcoBoost in Falcon, we’re putting LPI into Falcon, we’re putting diesel into Territory’, and we’re in that phase, but people are saying things (regarding Ford Australia’s) longer term (future) and drawing up conclusions.

“Do you go to a global rear-wheel-drive platform for large cars? That’s a decision that needs to be made.

“The Falcon name, large car segment, rear-wheel drive versus other alternatives, global platform, manufacturing – all these things are related, but they’re also part of the decision-making process.

“The choice we’ve made in the near-term is to continue to invest in Falcon and Territory and continue to make that business equation work – and it does today.

“We’ve said we’re doing global platforms on B, C and D, but that implies we’re not going to do global platforms on D/E. I won’t give you the answer to that, but there are two alternatives.

“(Ford CEO Alan Mulally said) ‘if or when we do another large car it will be on a global platform’, but we have Mustang that today is on its own platform and it’s a very important car in our portfolio. That’s why it’s complicated.

“We have a strategy we’re trying to adhere to, but at the same time we’re trying to make business decisions.

“I’m sensitive to the issues and all the interest in it. There’s a lot of passion around Falcon in Australia – believe me, I get emails. I appreciate it. We love that.

Personally, what I find very interesting is that we have pretty much had confirmed from 'sources' that the RHD Taurus aka Falcon to be based on this new Fusion/Mondeo platform is dead. But, we also hear them name Mustang, Taurus and Falcon altogether and they know that Mustang must stay RWD.

Ford also know that the volume is shifting from D/E to C/D size vehicles. It would make no sense in making the Falcon larger still.

Mustang is also expected to downsize and reduce weight. The current prototypes are allegedly running around with Falcon front and rear suspension (or derivatives of them). Mustang sold 70,438 in 2011.

Ford China would need a D/E size vehicle, preferably RWD to compete in that segment of China's 18M annual sales. That vehicle could probably equal Taurus US sales tally of 63,526 in 2011.

Ford know that the E8 Falcon / Territory platform is I4, I6, V6TD, V8 RWD and AWD capable.

I just wonder if Taurus downsizes externally and also ends up going RWD... The US gets what they like, China also and Australia too. There is a 250,000 vehicle potential annual figure with many synergies.

[XRFutura]

Originally Posted by phillyc

There is alot to be excited about based off those Go-Auto articles. Good news will be forthcoming.

Heck, short term, Ford Aus just got $50M to spend on Falcon from Ford US two days ago.


Personally, what I find very interesting is that we have pretty much had confirmed from 'sources' that the RHD Taurus aka Falcon to be based on this new Fusion/Mondeo platform is dead. But, we also hear them name Mustang, Taurus and Falcon altogether and they know that Mustang must stay RWD.

Ford also know that the volume is shifting from D/E to C/D size vehicles. It would make no sense in making the Falcon larger still.

Mustang is also expected to downsize and reduce weight. The current prototypes are allegedly running around with Falcon front and rear suspension (or derivatives of them). Mustang sold 70,438 in 2011.

Ford China would need a D/E size vehicle, preferably RWD to compete in that segment of China's 18M annual sales. That vehicle could probably equal Taurus US sales tally of 63,526 in 2011.

Ford know that the E8 Falcon / Territory platform is I4, I6, V6TD, V8 RWD and AWD capable.

I just wonder if Taurus downsizes externally and also ends up going RWD... The US gets what they like, China also and Australia too. There is a 250,000 vehicle potential annual figure with many synergies.

Thats the thing, if a RHD taurus has been looked at and crossed off the list, with all the talk of falcon/taurus combination. Is there the possiblity of the Taurus going AWD/RWD. That would could also include the next lincoln and mustang under one architecture.

[Road_Warrior]

It would certainly be an interesting twist if the Taurus ended up as a RWD car.

But that would mean CD4 has been engineered for RWD as well, and I doubt that.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

It would certainly be an interesting twist if the Taurus ended up as a RWD car.

But that would mean CD4 has been engineered for RWD as well, and I doubt that.

Hmmm, maybe Ford is non-committal on the large car until FoA completes its business
case and submits proposals on how the vehicle "shares" with the rest of Ford.

Large cars everywhere are becoming a niche, maybe scales of economy with Taurus-Falcon run much deeper
than FWD/AWD versus RWD/AWD, maybe a watershed Lincoln design depends upon the right result...

Not implying that I know more than I do but with an Aussie designer at Lincoln, maybe there's a desire for a RWD

[Gobes32]

I still cannot grapple a FWD car the size of a Fairlane, don't the Americans want the Taurus to be RWD? Is it the same as Americans insisting Mustang keep its live rear axle?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

I still cannot grapple a FWD car the size of a Fairlane, don't the Americans want the Taurus to be RWD? Is it the same as Americans insisting Mustang keep its live rear axle?

Think SUV sedan, a Falcon developed using Territory's floorpan and seating position.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Hmmm, maybe Ford is non-committal on the large car until FoA completes its business case and submits proposals on how the vehicle "shares" with the rest of Ford.

I think the business case is done and Ford know it doesnt stack up unless Ecoboost wins over some buyers wanting a fuel efficient large car. Hence the delay in announcing next-gen product plans and pushing the E8 end-date out to 2018.

In any event, its a long way out and they won't need to announce that for another year or so. Hell, we could all be in flying cars in 2018 and all this RWD Falcon talk will be redundant!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I think the business case is done and Ford know it doesnt stack up unless Ecoboost wins over some buyers wanting a fuel efficient large car. Hence the delay in announcing next-gen product plans and pushing the E8 end-date out to 2018.

In any event, its a long way out and they won't need to announce that for another year or so. Hell, we could all be in flying cars in 2018 and all this RWD Falcon talk will be redundant!

LOL, that's the spirit..

[Elks]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

unless Ecoboost wins over some buyers wanting a fuel efficient large car.

In reality, who wouldn't want a fuel efficient large car? Isn't that the best of both worlds.?

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

I still cannot grapple a FWD car the size of a Fairlane, don't the Americans want the Taurus to be RWD? Is it the same as Americans insisting Mustang keep its live rear axle?

Ford have been pretty keen in the past not to build the business case for a platform on converting existing models. That was a mistake GM made with Zeta and planning on a RWD Impala.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Elks

In reality, who wouldn't want a fuel efficient large car? Isn't that the best of both worlds.?

It depends if you want a large car! Part of the problem is that people these days don't!

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by dimka100

They will be unveiling this one ...

http://www.caradvice.com.au/153892/2...detroit-debut/

You should skip breakfast in the morning (if you read this in time) because you will be having pie all... day... long...

[Road_Warrior]

lol

I think there will be a lot of pie eating tomorrow...

[Polyal]

I just wish tomorrow would hurry the hell up!

[b055m4n]

Originally Posted by EASYBOSS

You go a problem with that music

oops.....

[turboxf]

Tomorrow is nearly here , just that the detroit expo will be a day later so wed we will see them in the meantime why not have a look at the concept that spawned the FUSION/MONDEO
http://www.caradvice.com.au/135477/f...rt-motor-show/

They sure didn't change that much from this concept

[BroadyFord]

IMO the announcement will relate to the $50m medium-term funding for Falcon, nothing more.

Hinrichs has already said they are nowhere near to a decision so what else could the announcement relate to?

If this scenario is correct then it will do nothing whatsoever to clear up uncertainty.

[BroadyFord]

IMO the announcement will relate to the $50m medium-term funding for Falcon, nothing more.

Hinrichs has already said they are nowhere near to a decision so what else could the announcement relate to?

If this scenario is correct then it will do nothing whatsoever to clear up uncertainty.

[BroadyFord]

Ford in $50m local boost

http://www.theage.com.au/national/fo...109-1prx1.html

THE future of Ford and Holden's local manufacturing operations could become clearer this morning following talks between senior US-based industry executives and Australian politicians.

Any moves to lift government support to the industry would come after car makers received government support equal to more than $12 billion last decade, more than any other individual industry.

But insiders are warning not to expect any major announcements regarding multibillion-dollar long-term investments - or the potential end of local vehicle production.

While senior Ford executives have painted a bleak picture about the future of the locally manufactured Territory and Falcon - saying they are "grappling" with decisions in the face of worryingly low sales - there is likely to be a hint of good news, with Ford today expected to announce a $50 million-plus investment from its US parent to go towards local operations.

"Yes, there is additional investment to come," said Ford Australia public affairs director Sinead Phipps, partially confirming recent media speculation.

But she refused to elaborate how much the additional investment is and exactly what it will be spent on, with expectations it will go into updates of the existing Falcon and Territory rather than all-new models due about mid-decade.

Holden has been more positive about its future, saying it is close to a decision that could involve continuing to produce two cars locally if the government can convince its Detroit-based parent it has stable long-term policies that involve increased financial assistance.

Holden says the crucial talks are the next step in securing long-term investment beyond the lifespan of the current Commodore, which will continue with updates until about 2017.

"GM and the Australian government are working towards the same goal, which is to retain the automotive industry in Australia," said Holden executive director of corporate affairs, Samantha Read.

As car makers demand more certainty from government, the car industry receives more government assistance than any other individual industry. Productivity Commission figures show that tariffs and subsidies supporting automakers were equivalent to more than $12 billion between 2000-01 and 2009-10.

While entire sectors such as agriculture received more support than this, car manufacturing was the most-supported sub-sector, figures from the commission's annual Trade and Assistance Review show.

Despite this level of assistance, employment in the car industry has fallen by about 8000 in the past decade, according to numbers compiled by the consultancy Australian Automotive Intelligence.

The consultancy's founder, Richard Johns, said overall assistance to the car industry had been wound back sharply in recent decades, with tariffs dropping from 57.5 per cent in the 1980s to 5 per cent today.

''There's been a substantial reduction in assistance to the industry over the past two decades. There's also been a significant decline in jobs, partly because of the closure of some of the companies such as Nissan and Mitsubishi and also because of improved efficiency in their operations,'' said Mr Johns, who was an adviser to former Labor industry minister John Button.

Central to the discussions in Detroit will be guarantees that Australian governments will work with Australian car makers to deliver consistent long-term assistance packages that make it attractive to produce cars locally rather than import them.

The industry was outraged over a decision to slash $800 million from the Green Car Innovation Fund last year, arguing it shifts the goalposts and frightens international parent companies that see Australia as one of many places they can produce vehicles.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

Ford in $50m local boost

http://www.theage.com.au/national/fo...109-1prx1.html

Any moves to lift government support to the industry would come after car makers received government support equal to more than $12 billion last decade, more than any other individual industry.

This is a lie as the GCIF was cancelled and nothing like the potential $600 million per year was ever allotted to the car industry.
Only relatively small amounts conditional on a three to one spend ratio and meeting strict guide lines currently qualify.

No wonder the industry is frustrated when journalists who should know better keep getting the facts wrong....

[BroadyFord]

Funding deal expected to keep Ford plant motoring for now

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...-1226240268414

FORD Australia is expected to be flung a financial lifeline at the Detroit motor show tomorrow with fresh funding from Canberra that will prevent the operation from sinking while head office works out what to do.

The plan, which is thought to involve an injection worth tens of millions of dollars, aims to stave off concerns that Ford will quit making cars in Australia in the wake of dismal Falcon sales and a global strategy that has failed to find a role for the Melbourne outfit. It comes on the opening day of the US car industry's showpiece, when both Ford and General Motors, which owns Holden, unveil fresh models.

Manufacturing Minister Kim Carr led a delegation to Detroit at the weekend to shore up support for the Australian operations as crucial decisions loom about the next generations of Falcon and Commodore, which are both due for renewal in the second half of this decade.

The two companies' commitments to making cars in Australia were thrown into question after the federal government's green car fund was cancelled a year ago.

The global strategies of GM and Ford rule out developing the cars solely for Australia. Both Falcon and the Territory SUV are expected to be merged with US models when they come up for renewal in four years, casting doubts over the future of the Australian industry.

Those doubts have been compounded by plummeting demand for the Falcon, with sales down 36.5 per cent last year to fewer than 20,000, their lowest level in the nameplate's half-century.

The funding announcement by Ford chief Bob Graziano and Senator Carr is not expected to resolve the issue of what will replace the Falcon or whether the Victorian factories can continue beyond the end of the decade.

Senator Carr's mission is also unlikely to generate any cast-iron guarantees from Holden, which is due to make decisions soon about the next Commodore due around 2018.

However, Holden's move to build the small Cruze, which began rolling out of the Adelaide plant a year ago, has been helping to make up for declining Commodore sales.

[snailbate]

If Ford pull out of Australis you betcha the Fed Gov will want there money back that they have given Ford thats why Ford have not pulled out of Australia now They are testing the waters to see what the Fed Gov will do
Terry

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by snailbate

If Ford pull out of Australis you betcha the Fed Gov will want there money back that they have given Ford thats why Ford have not pulled out of Australia now They are testing the waters to see what the Fed Gov will do
Terry

Didn't stop Kodak (in Victoria) taking the money, later shutting down...and the feds didn't get any money back iirc.

[Dr Smith]

Now that $50million is on the way, hopefully by EFT so no time is lost waiting for walking to a bank, standing in a queue and waiting 3 working days for clearance unless you pay extra for a fast clearance of funds...what should the Broady boys spend the money on?

Some external work needs to be changed just to show it is a newer version but money needs to be shared around. FG needs the same tech features from it's smaller siblings to sit as the top model in the range. However if not designed for these features originally can any of it be "just" added without costing/spending far more then $50mill? Pity they weren't given $100mill, lol.

[BroadyFord]

Quite disappointed that all this does not end the uncertainty.

Looks like we'll be waiting a while still. Lets hope some of the journos ask good questions that may make either Carr or Graziano let something slip.