QLD Easter : 1 Km over Speed Limit Ticket!!!!!!

[Franco Cozzo]

I'm in the car at the moment as a passenger in my old mans Mazda 323 and out of curiosity I'm using GPS to verify the speedo accuracy.

Its a 2003 model, flat highway road, at 100km indicated, were doing 102km/h, factory 195/55R15 tyres inflated to 36psi/40 front/rear.

[paule11]

We currently have an ss commodore unmarked in Townsville . The Policeman sits inside with his speedgun in his hand and shoots through the front window.Everytime I see it I wonder how inacurate that method is.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I'm in the car at the moment as a passenger in my old mans Mazda 323 and out of curiosity I'm using GPS to verify the speedo accuracy.

Its a 2003 model, flat highway road, at 100km indicated, were doing 102km/h, factory 195/55R15 tyres inflated to 36psi/40 front/rear.

Freaking HOONS!

[jamies]

Got to love good old revenue raising over Easter.... when other forms of crime go unnoticed.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Freaking HOONS!

We're in Victoria, too.

Goodbye old man, was nice knowing you.

[chris01]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

No cop with half a brain will waste his time fining someone 1 km over, not when there's bigger fish to score.

yeah i don't think so either and i doubt they have been told to do this. this is jawboning nonsense to put the scare into people. but if they did and the road toll went up, what then? bottom line; they have no idea what to do.

if you have half a mind to join the police force, that's enough...

[4stanger]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

No cop with half a brain will waste his time fining someone 1 km over, not when there's bigger fish to score.

Fully agreed.
But with the speed camera, they will be raking in the Dollar$.

[damo6]

Originally Posted by EDManual

I honestly don't care if you get caught by a speed camera. You should have been paying attention and seen it

bit hard to spot when they (camera vans) hiding behind the sound proof fence on the bruce hwy at north lakes or hiding behind the trees on the centre median where theres a break in the armco nth bound at bald hills,or sitting in a unmarked white pajero parked out the front of residences amongst all the other cars on a road near my place. yes i know where they like to sit and probably so do other locals who know where i mean as well but to someone who is not local they are prime targets for these leeches. road safety my ****! i dont sit 10kmh below the speed limit,i sit on the speed limit therefore im constantly checking my speed,i often travel down the nsw nth coast where they have cameras that might as well have big flashing neon arrows pointing at them they are that well signed-pacific hwy-.as soon as i cross back into qld i instantly find my self checking my speedo and looking for cameras,ive even seen the bastards set up within 100mt of the qld side of the border. anything for a dollar.

[Sprint]

speaking of psi what the speed differance of 20psi vs 40psi tyres.

[EDManual]

I don't think there is any difference in kph depending on different psi in your tyres. Rolling circumference is still the same I believe.

[ohzone]

Hey EDManual
From Carsguide
You be the judge


The tests also found that speeds do not alter much if your tyres lose some pressure.

"Varying tyre pressure does not affect speedo accuracy significantly. The largest difference was 2.8 per cent" Hayley said.



http://http://www.carsguide.com.au/n...speedo_reading

Using a Speed of 100kph the real speed could be 2.8kph more or 2.8kph less

[Charliewool]

Over a day into the Easter crackdown... Anyone here been done for 1km over? Or heard of ANYONE? I bet you won't either

[grandpa_spec_F6]

They weren't joking about this easter!!!

Started out today and didn't see anything, "BS They're out in force" says I....

- Half an hour later I'm in a line-up waiting for an RBT and drug test
- Pass a bike and cop car on the way to my 1st destination
- Pass an undercover radar the next
- Another radar coming on to the highway near North Lakes
- Pass a guy getting bent over while his car is searched

That was all in a grand total of 2 hours on the road.

[Road Games]

Drove all ^^^ around the Goldie between 11am and 12.30 not one radar/ cop car or bike spotted ?

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by grandpa_spec_F6

They weren't joking about this easter!!!

The fuzz blitzed town yesterday,speeding an RBT ....
We have a cop shop , well its there but noone home,we don't have a town cop closest 40 mins away,if not more,and there not manned 24/7 either
But hey come easter time, they come from far and wide
I just wish they would be more out and about all year rather than easter and chrissy time

[4stanger]

Originally Posted by grandpa_spec_F6

They weren't joking about this easter!!!

Started out today and didn't see anything, "BS They're out in force" says I....

- Half an hour later I'm in a line-up waiting for an RBT and drug test
- Pass a bike and cop car on the way to my 1st destination
- Pass an undercover radar the next
- Another radar coming on to the highway near North Lakes
- Pass a guy getting bent over while his car is searched

That was all in a grand total of 2 hours on the road.

Gee, you motorists do it tough in the "Great South East"
Travelled from North Rockhampton to Westwood and back on the capricorn highway today.
Approx. 1 hour each way, saw one marked highway patrol going the other way, that I noticed anyway.
I was sticking to the speed limit today and still got overtaken by every car, 4wd & truck that was behind me.
I wonder how the break & entery figures are going to go over easter?

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I'm in the car at the moment as a passenger in my old mans Mazda 323 and out of curiosity I'm using GPS to verify the speedo accuracy.

Its a 2003 model, flat highway road, at 100km indicated, were doing 102km/h, factory 195/55R15 tyres inflated to 36psi/40 front/rear.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!!!

That can't happen...you are obviously mistaken...modern cars don't have a speedo error like that. I do notice however that it's a 2003 model...wasn't it up to 2005 that ADR's allowed 10% plus or minus?

Of course, that won't help you when you get a fine for "zero tolerance" of one kph over...

And yes...if you inflate a tyre more, it will be slightly taller. This will affect your speedo.

And another thing...people think GPS is the be-all and end-all, absolutely accurate method of checking speed. The nasty fact is that GPS can in fact be slightly out now and then...not all the time, but occasionally. Our work vehicles out here have a GPS based "BigMate" system in them to monitor speed. One guy had some very nasty questions to answer when the Prado he was driving brought up a red flag as doing 170kph. Someone thought to do a download and they found that he had been doing a steady 110kph (we all heavily use the cruise control as we know we're being monitored), and within a four second period the speed jumped to 170, sat there for a couple of seconds, and dropped back to 110. Of course the GPS only knew that the car had exceeded the speed limit and it reported this.
One other Prado was red flagged for doing 170-odd kph...while sitting parked in the parking lot outside the station...

[EVLKNEVL]

Originally Posted by EDManual

I don't think there is any difference in kph depending on different psi in your tyres. Rolling circumference is still the same I believe.

There is.
The rolling circumference is calculated using the distance between the tyre's contact patch and the centre of the hub. In an under-inflated tyre the distance will be shorter, so the rolling circumference is smaller, making the speedo read more optimistically. Over-inflation does the opposite, but only by a negligible amount.

But then again, 1km/h can't be considered negligible when that's all it takes to be committing an offence, can it?

[chris01]

Originally Posted by paule11

We currently have an ss commodore unmarked in Townsville . The Policeman sits inside with his speedgun in his hand and shoots through the front window.Everytime I see it I wonder how inacurate that method is.

you get a lower speed as the angle of aim increases

[BENT_8]

Its not just QLD, and not just speeding they are hot on.
My nephew was pulled over and defected for a blown indicator globe in his AU.

He was approaching an intersection and had his indicator on when it suddenly blew with the dash light flashing rapidly as they do.
As he moved off a cop car was waiting to turn left from the oncoming traffic heading in the same direction as he was.
When my nephew approached the next intersection a lady pulled up next to him and told him his indicator was out.
As he cleared the intersection the cop wacked on the lights and pulled him over.

A rookie and a female jump out and proceed to go over the car with a fine tooth comb looking for anything to get him for.
The woman even poked her head in the back seat and commented on how surprised she was to see the two children strapped in the back properly.

Now the nephews AU is my old car and is immaculate, so the only thing they could ping him for was the indicator which they took pride in doing.

The nephew explains that it had just blown and that the woman who spoke to him was notifying him of that but they weren't interested.

So he fixes the indicator...$3.50, drove down to the cop shop and told the cop at the front desk that he had been defected for an indicator globe being out, the cop replies 'yeah, that's what we do' and then charged him $55 to remove the sticker.

This is bloody ridiculous.

Mind you, I feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that blown indicator globes are the most pressing issue faced by my local boys in blue...

[FGX-351]

Originally Posted by paule11

We currently have an ss commodore unmarked in Townsville . The Policeman sits inside with his speedgun in his hand and shoots through the front window.Everytime I see it I wonder how inacurate that method is.

I have an upcoming court hearing to contest an infringement from a LIDAR being operated in the same manner.

In my situation I was targeted from just under 400m away from the wrong side of the road on a 4 lane road with traffic island & over a bridge.

Officer was sitting at the giveway sign in an intersection in his Hyundai iload hanging the LIDAR out of the window using no corrective shoulder harness or tripod stand(Which he then proudly boasted that he writes 300-400 tickets a day and has never used either).
Given all of that and combined with the fact that this officer was quite threatening and intimidating and abused me for 20minutes telling me how police are always right and in future i'm to "shut up and accept what the officer says" I decided to contest.

I've never contested a fine before, but in this instance I wasn't speeding and I don't want to be punished for something I didn't do.
Otherwise i'd have accepted that I did the wrong thing.

Point being whether it's Easter weekend or not if you believe you've been fined incorrectly we all have the democratic right to contest that.
All offences are alleged until proven guilty.

Not a police bash post, 9 out of 10 police are quite friendly.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by grandpa_spec_F6

They weren't joking about this easter!!!

Started out today and didn't see anything, "BS They're out in force" says I....

- Half an hour later I'm in a line-up waiting for an RBT and drug test
- Pass a bike and cop car on the way to my 1st destination
- Pass an undercover radar the next
- Another radar coming on to the highway near North Lakes
- Pass a guy getting bent over while his car is searched

That was all in a grand total of 2 hours on the road.

Northern Bris seems to be the place. Seen about 5 around our area. RBT out front of north lakes station.

[Sprint]

Originally Posted by EDManual

I don't think there is any difference in kph depending on different psi in your tyres. Rolling circumference is still the same I believe.

ok ,one for mythbusters then but 1-2kms isn't very much,5mm difference circumfrance could do that, worn tyres vs new?.

what if the tyre shop put the wrong series tyres on?(primarily older cars)

[renegadeous]

Originally Posted by The-ShowStoPPa

I have an upcoming court hearing to contest an infringement from a LIDAR being operated in the same manner.

In my situation I was targeted from just under 400m away from the wrong side of the road on a 4 lane road with traffic island & over a bridge.

Officer was sitting at the giveway sign in an intersection in his Hyundai iload hanging the LIDAR out of the window using no corrective shoulder harness or tripod stand(Which he then proudly boasted that he writes 300-400 tickets a day and has never used either).
Given all of that and combined with the fact that this officer was quite threatening and intimidating and abused me for 20minutes telling me how police are always right and in future i'm to "shut up and accept what the officer says" I decided to contest.

I've never contested a fine before, but in this instance I wasn't speeding and I don't want to be punished for something I didn't do.
Otherwise i'd have accepted that I did the wrong thing.

Point being whether it's Easter weekend or not if you believe you've been fined incorrectly we all have the democratic right to contest that.
All offences are alleged until proven guilty.

Not a police bash post, 9 out of 10 police are quite friendly.

Actually dude, that's only in a criminal court where you are innocent until proven guilty.

In a civil court no matter whether you are a police officer or citizen the defendant is considered guilty until proven innocent. Therefore what that means is that they can say what they want and the onus is on you to prove them wrong. Their story as the prosecution is considered truth unless you prove them wrong. This means that all that stuff you just listed off you need to be able to prove and they will take the character of the police officer into account before essentially calling him / her incompetent, particularly if he is issuing that many tickets and is commonly at the courthouse.

So best of luck but you really need to prepare your case and do it well. A lot of people get legal representation if it is a matter of principle and you want to win.

[FGX-351]

Originally Posted by renegadeous

Actually dude, that's only in a criminal court where you are innocent until proven guilty.

In a civil court no matter whether you are a police officer or citizen the defendant is considered guilty until proven innocent. Therefore what that means is that they can say what they want and the onus is on you to prove them wrong. Their story as the prosecution is considered truth unless you prove them wrong. This means that all that stuff you just listed off you need to be able to prove and they will take the character of the police officer into account before essentially calling him / her incompetent, particularly if he is issuing that many tickets and is commonly at the courthouse.

So best of luck but you really need to prepare your case and do it well. A lot of people get legal representation if it is a matter of principle and you want to win.

Thanks for the reply.
Was always under the assumption speed offences were alleged pending court hearing.

Everything you've mentioned though is absolutely true, I was lucky enough to have a witness in the car.
I also mentioned I understood their operational proceedure is to record all dealings with motorists and made sure his recorder was on and went through and listed everything, where he was, where I was, how he was aiming, not using any corrective device.....etc

That's unfortunately when he erupted and I got the "your a stupid young bloke, i'd rather be in bed" lecture, lights and wipers check and the "shut your mouth and always accept guilt" lecture, never had an experience like this with QLD police.


He didn't even list his name on the ticket, and the traffic superintentent and JP havent correctly signed the summons(not that this really has a bearing, it's just disappointing).

Upon recieving the brief of evidence including the field tape a local law firm is offering me a free consultation on whether its worth holding or folding.

If you'd like more details i'm happy to share via PM.

[2011G6E]

As said earlier, "1 to 2 kph isn't much"...and no it isn't in any real terms...but if it leads to fines because of a ludicrous government policy, then yes it is an important amount all of a sudden. How fine a division is one kph on your speedo anyway...? A speedo needle width? Less on a speedo that is calibrated up to 250kph on some performance model? Hell, your needle probably wobbles more than one kph either way on a car a few years old, and there's no way your fallible human muscle control (or even cruise control) can maintain a speed within one kph plus or minus...it simply isn't possible.


Tyres: that's an interesting point. I wanted to get new tyres for our '82 Celica which has early Supra mags on it. The standard sized tyres for it were something like 215/50 or 55-14...anyway, it was something which wasn't any longer available unless I wanted to pay hundreds of dollars per tyre. I went with another size...without looking I think they're 195-something. The online tyre calculator said they were 10mm narrower, and about 10mm taller as they weren't 55 series (I think they're 60 series). The tyres didn't look very different...maybe a little less bagged out from the rim, but otherwise pretty much identical. However, it made a big difference to the speedo. It used to read quite fast...an indicated 100kph was actually only around 93kph by the GPS. Now with the new set, it's pretty much dead on.
With older cars you have to sometimes make compromises on tyre sizes when the original isn't easily or affordable available these days.


Good luck fighting the speeding fine...it's one of the few areas of the law where you are absolutely, positively seen as guilty until you can somehow manage to prove yourself innocent...even child molesters would get more of a fair hearing in court and a presumption of innocence.
I only once considered taking a fine to court...and I knew with absolute certainty I was innocent. I had just moved off from a park and was waved down by a cop with a laser..."72kph in a 60 zone, 140 meters from my position". He was sitting almost exactly 140 meters from my parking spot outside the factory (i measured it with a borrowed meter wheel the next day). I told him I wasn't going to pay, he said that was my right, and told me to go and fill out a stat dec at the police station. A helpful girl behind the counter told me what to do (and said in the circumstances I described, she wouldn't pay either). I provided a map of the area, the measurements I took, and the full details of what happened. I was told not to pay the fine but to wait for a decision. Three months went by, and the decision came..."we're right, you're wrong, pay up".
Friends at work said I was mad to pay..."take it to court!!". Yeah right...take a couple of days off work with no pay, go to court, and still be told "we're right, you're wrong, pay up...plus costs".

Our son got a camera fine in Rockhampton a year or so back, taken by the van which everyone knows parks near the tourist bureau as you drive into town on the main road (if you know Rocky, you will know where I mean, everyone does). He was fined for 70 in a 60 zone. In the photo there were two other cars...one over in the background coming the other way, and one just behind my sons car. He paid, because the police, when he asked, wheeled out the standard response they pulled out of their bum a few years back where the blatantly lied and said they had "discovered more about how the cameras worked" and that they could now "pick out one car from a few in the photo". No...you can't...it's a static photo, and if there is more than one car you have NO idea which car is the speeder, especially if they are close together. The true reason was that they were throwing out far too many profitable photos which had more than one car in frame...can't have that...imagine the money they must have lost before coming up with that little jewel of a lie...

The whole system is formulated to make it so hard to fight a fine that they plan on the staggeringly vast majority of people paying up and not fighting it...after all, with a camera fine, if it comes in the mail a few weeks later, who remembers exactly what they were doing at that moment? "Maybe I was speeding? Ah...I'll pay it".

The bush lawyers will cry that everyone should take fines to court and "clog the system"...but who will bother? You already know what the outcome will be with an extreme level of confidence...and you won't be the one in the right. Indeed, why bother?

[FGX-351]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

In the photo there were two other cars...one over in the background coming the other way, and one just behind my sons car. He paid, because the police, when he asked, wheeled out the standard response they pulled out of their bum a few years back where the blatantly lied and said they had "discovered more about how the cameras worked" and that they could now "pick out one car from a few in the photo". No...you can't...it's a static photo, and if there is more than one car you have NO idea which car is the speeder, especially if they are close together. The true reason was that they were throwing out far too many profitable photos which had more than one car in frame...can't have that...imagine the money they must have lost before coming up with that little jewel of a lie...

Yeah in my research i've seen that scenario come up quite abit.
The way the Radar beam goes out in most cases will actually pass through both cars if side by side like that, there is no way to prove beyond reasonable doubt in that instance from a static photo that either car was the offender.
Agreed though it is a waste of time, it's a hell of alot cheaper to just pay the fine, I'd much prefer to be at work that day than fighting a fine.

[EVLKNEVL]

Years ago I received a ticket in the mail and the alleged date of the offence was four months prior! There was no way I could so much as remember the speed I was doing at that time (I was always particularly careful on that road because it was notorious for speed traps hidden in the bushes) let alone prove that I wasn't breaking the law on that day.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by The-ShowStoPPa

Yeah in my research i've seen that scenario come up quite abit.
The way the Radar beam goes out in most cases will actually pass through both cars if side by side like that, there is no way to prove beyond reasonable doubt in that instance from a static photo that either car was the offender.
Agreed though it is a waste of time, it's a hell of alot cheaper to just pay the fine, I'd much prefer to be at work that day than fighting a fine.

If the fine wasn't filled out correctly will that get you off?

[1TUFFUTE]

maybe they should do something of use and park themselves near a roundabout. 95% of people DONT use blinkers correctly or at ALL and would surely be a GOLD MINE FOR them