Unions will be the death of Australian car manufacturing

[fte50]

Funny story that - funny in the sense that 1 stupid delegate was overwhelmingly more powerful than the remaining 399 workforce and allowed to move forth with ill judgement and the real possibility of burning the lot.
Given your story, this bloke sounds like the root cause of the problems, but the workforce should've passed a vote of no confidence and prevent him from defying the writing on the wall.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

That self centred, egotistical shop stewards actions saw me not only resign from the AMWU, but put me off unions for life!

i lost what little respect i had for them when they supplied free beer to everyone who striked at our small factory
our (not me) factory went out in sympathy for some reason i have no idea about so to keep everyone on side, they supplied beer for the arvo/night shift people

an already passionate subject and the heroes inflame it by getting everyone drunk




i am amused when people tell me (either on social media or in person), just how much the unions help, and how hard working they are
it shouldn't be funny but i have heard it all before at a previous work place
it is just the people who told me then, were the ones wearing the blue t-shirts and doing absolutely nothing but sitting on their butts all day

i guess their interpretation of a days work and mine were totally different

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Billy Shortens a great example I reckon?

Proof that unions are great at pulling the wool over their members eyes...

[BroadyFord]

The best friend to the auto industry - Kevin Rudd - is back.

Could be interesting to see what, if anything, he can whip up for the industry before the election.

This could (I stress COULD) be a positive turning point for the industry, fingers crossed!

[gtfpv]

It's true that some oxy morons exist at floor and deligate level within a collective union. like any position of authority often the real dip shifts make it to the top . it's not much different really than an idiot boss , trading off people and things for thier own agenda of power .
i totally sympathise where people are forced to work under these type of fascists -hiding behind socialism . it's a kin to being spat out by the boss , working with these fascist pigs .
but remember that is not true unionism . and that is hard to conquer. true unionism stands for fairness for all . lots of things that we take for granted at work came from principle unionists .
extreme right wing no brainers are equally as stupid as a braun power hungry fascist fear mungering good for nothing unionist . therefore a true union has to conquer many dills , to get some real cogs turning smoothly together with companies that dont think thier employees are leeches that will one day be replaced with a machine .
the best mix believe it or not is an agreement where favouritism is kept to a minimal and reward and respect is accepted .
some worksites work this way extremely well when these principles are adhered to . it only takes one totl F WIT to change all that !! a new boss , manager or employee with the wrong makings and the struggle is on .
those who think individual respect is going to get them some where are sadly minimising their luck .

[mik]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

The best friend to the auto industry - Kevin Rudd - is back.

Could be interesting to see what, if anything, he can whip up for the industry before the election.

This could (I stress COULD) be a positive turning point for the industry, fingers crossed!

I hate to say it, but I find it hard to see any real meaningful change in the the status quo.

[GREGL]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

It's true that some oxy morons exist at floor and deligate level within a collective union. like any position of authority often the real dip shifts make it to the top . it's not much different really than an idiot boss , trading off people and things for thier own agenda of power .
i totally sympathise where people are forced to work under these type of fascists -hiding behind socialism . it's a kin to being spat out by the boss , working with these fascist pigs .
but remember that is not true unionism . and that is hard to conquer. true unionism stands for fairness for all . lots of things that we take for granted at work came from principle unionists .
extreme right wing no brainers are equally as stupid as a braun power hungry fascist fear mungering good for nothing unionist . therefore a true union has to conquer many dills , to get some real cogs turning smoothly together with companies that dont think thier employees are leeches that will one day be replaced with a machine .
the best mix believe it or not is an agreement where favouritism is kept to a minimal and reward and respect is accepted .
some worksites work this way extremely well when these principles are adhered to . it only takes one totl F WIT to change all that !! a new boss , manager or employee with the wrong makings and the struggle is on .
those who think individual respect is going to get them some where are sadly minimising their luck .

GTFPV and FTE , nice to show your position in later posts. If you had come across in the beginning with these views I for 1 certainly would not have reacted in the manner I did.

If all union stewards and above had the same attitude (mutual respect etc) maybe membership would start to rise again.

To GTFPV, its all good mate at this point in time I don't work just for the money I do it for LOVE as well !!!!

[Crazy Dazz]

"Unions" have lost the plot.
Their latest ad where the little girl is distraught because "the boss" (obviously all bosses are evil spawns of satan) "MADE" her parent work.
Gees, what a bastard, expecting his employees to actually turn up for work.

NB: Last time I was in a union, we went on strike for:

- Extending the 30 minutes paid lunch break (with hot lunch provided in onsite mess) to 90 minutes so that married workers could go home and have lunch with their missus. (we only worked 7.5 hour shifts, and this 90 minute "lunch break" would have included night shift!)

- Because the downstairs female toilets were backed up. Only one shift had a female worker, and she was allowed to use the office toilets upstairs.

- Because a newly engaged employee, who planned to quit and return to Perth before getting married, was placed on a waiting list for married accommodation.

- When they used x-ray equipment to check weld faults on a truck parked 5~600m from the workshop.

- When washing the forklift caused steam to come from the brakes.

[Cashie]

Bit surprised this thread has remained silent now Australian car manufacturing is actually dead.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

"Unions" have lost the plot.
Their latest ad where the little girl is distraught because "the boss" (obviously all bosses are evil spawns of satan) "MADE" her parent work.
Gees, what a bastard, expecting his employees to actually turn up for work.

NB: Last time I was in a union, we went on strike for:

- Extending the 30 minutes paid lunch break (with hot lunch provided in onsite mess) to 90 minutes so that married workers could go home and have lunch with their missus. (we only worked 7.5 hour shifts, and this 90 minute "lunch break" would have included night shift!)

- Because the downstairs female toilets were backed up. Only one shift had a female worker, and she was allowed to use the office toilets upstairs.

- Because a newly engaged employee, who planned to quit and return to Perth before getting married, was placed on a waiting list for married accommodation.

- When they used x-ray equipment to check weld faults on a truck parked 5~600m from the workshop.

- When washing the forklift caused steam to come from the brakes.

Last time i had involvement with a union:

- Employer was paying someone $2 an hour under the award for 2 years

- Employer wasnt signing apprentices competency book required by TAFE.

- Workshop floor staff hadn't recieved any payrise in 5 years not even CPI

- Poor English speaking tradesmen paid much less than the others even though he was one of the top tradies in the joint.

As soon as the union representatives turned up things changed very quickly, but they talked us out of doing an EBA and we stupidly listened, then things just went down hill big time when union left.

Just because one group of people decides to down tools for a stupid reasons for the sake of it, doesn't mean the rest of us will, we never once went out on strike or had a union meeting in work time.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Last time i had involvement with a union:

- Employer was paying someone $2 an hour under the award for 2 years

- Employer wasnt signing apprentices competency book required by TAFE.

- Workshop floor staff hadn't recieved any payrise in 5 years not even CPI

- Poor English speaking tradesmen paid much less than the others even though he was one of the top tradies in the joint.

As soon as the union representatives turned up things changed very quickly, but they talked us out of doing an EBA and we stupidly listened, then things just went down hill big time when union left.

Just because one group of people decides to down tools for a stupid reasons for the sake of it, doesn't mean the rest of us will, we never once went out on strike or had a union meeting in work time.

Unfortunately this is the drivel that is used to justify the anachronistic existence of unions and their destructive behaviour.

How is it that when an employer advertises a job, somebody willingly applies for the job and is hired, that's "exploitation" because the union says so. But when the union destroys somebody's business and livelihood that's just "standing up for workers rights."

Over the past 35 years I have worked in a vast array of different jobs, blue-collar, white-collar, & professional, highly paid, lowly paid, & barely paid. I once worked a contract where the termination period was 24 hours, and the ******** actually looked at his watch. I have been so poor that we lost our house & cars, had to live on food parcels, and the only Christmas Presents the Kids got were from Vinnies.
Funny thing is not once was I forced to take a job I hadn't asked for, nor was I ever held captive in a job where I didn't want to stay.

THERE are countries where sweatshops are considered normal, kids are beaten and chained to their sewing machines and workers ARE literally forced to work for a bowl of rice. Australia isn't.
And yes, Australia WAS founded on and built by slave-labour, but that was 200 years ago.

I work in an industry where even 20 years ago it was close to 100% unionised, and the workers were died in the wool Labor voters. Now most laugh at the unions and despise the Labor party.

The joke of it is, there is STILL a role for unions in collective bargaining, but they are such a mob of ********* that the workers want nothing to do with them.

[pottery beige]

so much anger

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

"Unions" have lost the plot.
Their latest ad where the little girl is distraught because "the boss" (obviously all bosses are evil spawns of satan) "MADE" her parent work.
Gees, what a bastard, expecting his employees to actually turn up for work.

Yep made. These people have mortgages and families and if they don't submiss to the will of their uncaring boss then their lives are ****** and everything they've been building for their kids comes crushing down soon afterwards. Seen it happen to far too many friends in my lifetime.

Sorry but the truth is freedom for all is an illusion.

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Last time i had involvement with a union:

- Employer was paying someone $2 an hour under the award for 2 years

- Employer wasnt signing apprentices competency book required by TAFE.

- Workshop floor staff hadn't recieved any payrise in 5 years not even CPI

- Poor English speaking tradesmen paid much less than the others even though he was one of the top tradies in the joint.

As soon as the union representatives turned up things changed very quickly, but they talked us out of doing an EBA and we stupidly listened, then things just went down hill big time when union left.

Just because one group of people decides to down tools for a stupid reasons for the sake of it, doesn't mean the rest of us will, we never once went out on strike or had a union meeting in work time.

LOL same happened at my workplace. They claimed a stejcraft off their pizza shop lol, not even a family operated trust could get them out of that one. Needless to say Domino's corporate now owns all 3 of their stores. No idea what happened to the owners they were ok people just got a bit greedy and wanted the australian people to fund the Snapper season for them.

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Unfortunately this is the drivel that is used to justify the anachronistic existence of unions and their destructive behaviour.

How is it that when an employer advertises a job, somebody willingly applies for the job and is hired, that's "exploitation" because the union says so. But when the union destroys somebody's business and livelihood that's just "standing up for workers rights."

It would have to be because the employer is breaching workplace regulations. Which was never advertised to the employee in the job description and nor is legal.. employment in this country has to adhere to IR laws and if they don't they get sorted out by the unions and rightfully so.

I don't think they can destroy a business for no good reason, for example the shop I worked at somehow managed to declare a recreational vessel against their suburban pizza shops (ok one shop was coastal if that makes it all ok :S). well not for long but obviously the union/ato didn't sort them out because they served the community with good pizza's :S

[aussiblue]

One might legitimately argue that the oppression of unions overseas is what killed the OZ industry. One of the main reasons south Korean cars are cheaper is that they have corruptly jailed the auto industry union leaders so the can keep down costs. see http://strongerunions.org/2014/02/21...il-or-on-bail/
http://www.workdayminnesota.org/arti...nge-trade-pact

[MercurySilver]

yeah thats right
unions destroy everything
one day the whole country will not produce anything at all, zilch, nothing, nadda

and it'll be all because of unions

excuse me while i laugh my *** off into my cereal bowl

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Unfortunately this is the drivel that is used to justify the anachronistic existence of unions and their destructive behaviour.

How is it that when an employer advertises a job, somebody willingly applies for the job and is hired, that's "exploitation" because the union says so. But when the union destroys somebody's business and livelihood that's just "standing up for workers rights."

Over the past 35 years I have worked in a vast array of different jobs, blue-collar, white-collar, & professional, highly paid, lowly paid, & barely paid. I once worked a contract where the termination period was 24 hours, and the ******** actually looked at his watch. I have been so poor that we lost our house & cars, had to live on food parcels, and the only Christmas Presents the Kids got were from Vinnies.
Funny thing is not once was I forced to take a job I hadn't asked for, nor was I ever held captive in a job where I didn't want to stay.

THERE are countries where sweatshops are considered normal, kids are beaten and chained to their sewing machines and workers ARE literally forced to work for a bowl of rice. Australia isn't.
And yes, Australia WAS founded on and built by slave-labour, but that was 200 years ago.

I work in an industry where even 20 years ago it was close to 100% unionised, and the workers were died in the wool Labor voters. Now most laugh at the unions and despise the Labor party.

The joke of it is, there is STILL a role for unions in collective bargaining, but they are such a mob of ********* that the workers want nothing to do with them.

Just remember no matter how silly an EBA, someone high up still signed off on it.

It all was the union and workers fault, nothing to do with free trade agreement signed with Thailand, nothing about removal of tarriffs, nothing to do with making a car which sells less than 1000 cars a month, none of that it was all the worker and the unions fault.

You gonna blame the workers in Australia's IT Industry for their massive loss of jobs and careers, how everything got outsourced to Phillipines and India and still does by the day?

Wait, they don't even have a union....

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Cashie

Bit surprised this thread has remained silent now Australian car manufacturing is actually dead.

If it was "actually dead", there wouldn't be any cars getting made at all, no?

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

employment in this country has to adhere to IR laws and if they don't they get sorted out by the unions and rightfully so.

That’s what the Fair Work Commission is for.
https://www.fwc.gov.au/about-us/overview


Being an old codger I started when Unions were a part of the furniture but sometimes you need to call a spade a spade.
Union membership in Australia is now down to only 18% of the workforce.
Take out Public Servants and blue collar trades where mandatory membership is required to secure work on some job sites and you’ll start to understand Union membership today has very little relevance for most Australian employees.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

That’s what the Fair Work Commission is for.
https://www.fwc.gov.au/about-us/overview


Being an old codger I started when Unions were a part of the furniture but sometimes you need to call a spade a spade.
Union membership in Australia is now down to only 18% of the workforce.
Take out Public Servants and blue collar trades where mandatory membership is required to secure work on some job sites and you’ll start to understand Union membership today has very little relevance for most Australian employees.

You need a third party regulator, don't leave it up to business or the government, because you can see it when Lib state governments get in, all of a sudden Worksafe and other government regulators start relaxing and turn a blind eye to things, political pressure.

Politics, everywhere politics.

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

You need a third party regulator, don't leave it up to business or the government, because you can see it when Lib state governments get in, all of a sudden Worksafe and other government regulators start relaxing and turn a blind eye to things, political pressure.

Politics, everywhere politics.

Most of the workforce disagrees with you.

It's also one of the reasons we have such a high rate of casual workers who will never know permanent employment.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

Most of the workforce disagrees with you.

It's also one of the reasons we have such a high rate of casual workers who will never know permanent employment.

Of course they do, have a read of this some time:

http://www.blackincbooks.com/books/b...d-billionaires

It explains how Australia's inequality has risen since the 1970 when it was at its peak and how it ties in with trade union decline.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

It would have to be because the employer is breaching workplace regulations. Which was never advertised to the employee in the job description and nor is legal.. employment in this country has to adhere to IR laws and if they don't they get sorted out by the unions and rightfully so.

I don't think they can destroy a business for no good reason, for example the shop I worked at somehow managed to declare a recreational vessel against their suburban pizza shops (ok one shop was coastal if that makes it all ok :S). well not for long but obviously the union/ato didn't sort them out because they served the community with good pizza's :S

I dont understand ..... what has Unions got to do with sorting out business who file dodgy claims? Unions have nothing to do with this process. They are the 'supposedly' there to protect their members ...... when in fact they are only there to protect their own jobs.

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

That’s what the Fair Work Commission is for.
https://www.fwc.gov.au/about-us/overview

If someone has a gripe ... there is the above. There are rules that need to be followed and there are places to go to if you think you are being hard done by. Unions are near on redundant now. Spend more time justifying their job than trying to help someone out.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

That’s what the Fair Work Commission is for.
https://www.fwc.gov.au/about-us/overview


Being an old codger I started when Unions were a part of the furniture but sometimes you need to call a spade a spade.
Union membership in Australia is now down to only 18% of the workforce.
Take out Public Servants and blue collar trades where mandatory membership is required to secure work on some job sites and you’ll start to understand Union membership today has very little relevance for most Australian employees.

Most blue collar and lower white collar workers expect the government to give them the payrise they no longer get from their employer as yet another Federal tax cut.

Completely unsustainable and destroying the funding of so many Australian institutions and services. Tax breaks aren't "Free" to the community. Previous generations of Australians didn't build public utilities, infrastructure and services for them to be privatised for a quick buck either.

It would be nice if Australian workers asked their boss for a payrise, like they did in the days of unions, instead of voting for the party that promised to strip government services and give them the cash instead.

Our grandkids will have no reason to love this generation of "What in it for me's". A generation that dug everything up that was non renewable and sold it for cents in the dollar, privatised public assets and quite literally sold the farm to foreign interests.

The post union era is no picnic either. We have lost our collective social conscious.

[Jason[98.EL]]

Originally Posted by LoudPipes

Most of the workforce disagrees with you.

It's also one of the reasons we have such a high rate of casual workers who will never know permanent employment.

So true

the company I work for has had for the last 4 yrs only had a casual work force ( production )

we are now all getting put on full time ( I just started full time on Monday ) but that is only due to it being cheaper for them to have us on full time if it was cheaper for us to be on casual we would have stayed there

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

I dont understand ..... what has Unions got to do with sorting out business who file dodgy claims? Unions have nothing to do with this process. They are the 'supposedly' there to protect their members ...... when in fact they are only there to protect their own jobs.


If someone has a gripe ... there is the above. There are rules that need to be followed and there are places to go to if you think you are being hard done by. Unions are near on redundant now. Spend more time justifying their job than trying to help someone out.

yeah sorry there was no union involved I just said it to refer to the fact he wasn't caught out, a worker reported him in. Wages were fair and I thought he was a compassionate boss (most others didn't). But they treated casual workers as full time, I remember almost passing out from a severe flu delivering pizza's to people... if you couldn't get someone to cover your shift (managers responsibility) you were fired, they treated it like you abandoned them like it's all about them no compassion absolutely no regard how sick you are, thing is everyone didn't actually get fired they'd work sick every single time in fear of being fired if they couldn't find another worker to cover their shift (usually involving you take their shift), or in any state, miss a special night. So it worked out well for domino's. The rule of their casual award was very clear, 24hrs required notice if sick, 7 days notice if you want to be off the roster and have a night off. They didn't abide by either, I worked 2 days in a row when I had the flu, no one could cover equating to meaning I HAVE to work, they sent me home soon after the rush both nights because I appeared so pale and delirious, but obviously needed me there regardless. They weren't ********* but they weren't compassionate either, it was all about them, can't quote an extra 10 minutes on delivery times.. gotta force people to risk crashing their car with the flu. My wheel fell off at 110k's watch it accelerate past me and almost take someone out on the monash.. I felt it wobbling for 2hrs when i was delivering pizza's, it was so busy and I told them I need to stop by home and grab a wheel cross I can't drive it and they wouldn't let me, it got to the point "if you go home don't come back", would've taken me 5min to swing into home after dropping off a pizza, quote 45min delivery instead of 40min.. they don't mind quoting up to 2hrs every fri/sat night when they put on a stingy amount of staff... that's the problem no sense at all my wheel fell off, some poor bugger had to wait another hour to get his order redelivered and people could've died. I spun out at top speed and my rotor had melted into the road tar. If that 5 minute extra quote time is worth risking lives then why do they quote 2hrs when they're too tight to roster sufficient staff. Anything for the company.

Like it's not like it was a graduate position in power systems/elec eng or something with a worthy future involved. If they don't want people who aren't loyal, hire people over 25 which is what my boss did (but drivers only because they were all $11 flat regardless of age lol, some weird award loophole there). Teenagers do not want careers at these places when bosses in hospitality understand if they want a committed worker you're going to have to hire someone a bit older and pay them an extra $3 by the hour, then one day they become your manager and you actually have a good worker in your business instead of a flock of 15yr olds.

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

If it was "actually dead", there wouldn't be any cars getting made at all, no?

Sorry, should have said "will be" dead...

[vanman_75]

I think union take up is so far down , only because conditions are so good and across the board these days , that all the younger people believe that's what the company does out of their hearts . we are in a real predicament in the mines with Labour hire at the moment , they have taken 2 pay cuts this year , down to $40 an hr , take home pays are 7-800 a week less than ours , the more permanent people that lose their job get replaced by Labour hire , and so conditions drop , and so do skilled operators .
Next year is our ea , I'm very happy to put a freeze on wages until the good times , but we will be replaced with low wage workers until we are gone ...then you will see these people come to understand why we needed the union ... and no I'm not a hard core unionist never will be but I see their place against corporate greed ...it's a real pity it's going down like this .

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

- Workshop floor staff hadn't recieved any payrise in 5 years not even CPI

inflation/cost of living etc doesn't automatically entitle anyone to more money or pay rises.

where does the money come from? employers don't have some endless supply that they can continually dip into every time someone wants to live a certain lifestyle. employers aren't immune to inflation. rising electricity, rates, etc etc.

having a job is better than not having a job.