'Major announcement' from Toyota this afternoon

[kaniSS]

You can thank the Governments of this country for making it near impossible to make a decent profit and run a business in this country.

My father owns his own business and the amount of redtape, government interference, insane overheads and bullshit he has to deal with is unbelievable. He is selling up and retiring back on the Mediterranean because of it.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by kaniSS

You can thank the Governments of this country for making it near impossible to make a decent profit and run a business in this country.

My father owns his own business and the amount of redtape, government interference, insane overheads and bullshit he has to deal with is unbelievable. He is selling up and retiring back on the Mediterranean because of it.

This!!! I know of several people who are contemplating pulling the pin on their small businesses due to the amount of red tape.

[BroadyFord]

I'm gutted now that I won't have the option to buy an Australian-made car in a few years.

What's for sure though is Ford will still have the strongest connection to Australia after 2017. At least I'll be able to say I drive a car "designed and engineered in Australia".

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

Despite that Top Gear mini film that showcased British manufacturing, the real story is a far cry from that.

Do tell

The facts are that with huge export markets, every English owned vehicle/Motorcycle manufacturer died by a thousand cuts at some stage.

Industry, Government and the workforce went through huge change and turmoil during the 70's and 80's, only to come out stronger in many other industries. Giving people and business more power and disposable income.

By 1974 Britain's position as a world motor vehicle manufacturer had dropped to sixth place. In 1974, both BLMC and Chrysler UK appealed to the Government for financial help. The Government rejected the idea of a BLMC/CUK merger, and instead CUK received a loan and BLMC was subjected to a series of studies to determine its future. The Government's official BLMC enquiry, led by Lord Ryder, suggested that BLMC's strategy was sound, but required huge Government investment to improve productivity by providing mechanisation and improving labour relations.

Despite the effective nationalisation of BLMC as British Leyland (BL) in 1975, the recovery never happened. Chrysler sold its European interests (including those in the UK) to Peugeot in 1978, to allow it to concentrate on its own difficulties in America. The UK interests were renamed Peugeot-Talbot.

By the end of the 1970s Ford, Peugeot-Talbot and Vauxhall (GM) were well integrated with their parent companies' other European operations. BL stood alone in the UK as an increasingly junior player. As part of the drive for increased productivity in the late 1970s, BL reduced its workforce and number of plants, and strived to centralise its management activities. The city of Coventry suffered particularly badly, with many thousands becoming unemployed after the closure of the Triumph car factory in the city in 1980.

Although the UK political scene changed in 1979 with the election of the Thatcher government, the Government continued to support BL with funds for the development of a new mass-market model range (Mini Metro, Maestro, Montego and another Honda collaboration the Rover 800), which were all launched between 1980 and 1986.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by SPArKy_Dave

If fuel is made cheaper, and import tariffs are imposed, I beg to differ.
We are not Europe - we do not have suburb after suburb of narrow terrace estates, with cobblestone laneways.
Large wheelbases crap all over the little buzz boxes, in terms of how they handle our vast road network.

Given the financial option, I reckon people would go back to large sedans.
Humans aren't getting any smaller.
(thou the carparks are)

Not true, fuel can be cheaper but it won't sell any more Falcodores.
Look at the top 10 sellers, there are a range of vehicles in there not just small cars. There are SUVs and 4x4 dual cab utes. These aren't frugal machines themselves.
There is so much choice for the buyer, giving them far more selection of more versatile vehicles to suit their requirement.

our vast road network? you saying no other country has freeways? You do realise most people fly between states and not drive now cause it is far cheaper to do so.
Some do still drive but you know what so do people in Europe and the US. there are brilliant driving roads between some EU countries.

[MercuryT]

I guess i'll give my 2 cents.....

Whilst I agree there is some merit to blaming Unions, Governments, workers and productivity etc etc etc, at the end of the day I think a few earlier posters nailed the main reason why.

The Australian people's choice of cars they buy is too often incredibly stupid.

Time and time again I know of people paying for grossly over-priced and under-specced Euros compared to Falcons or Commodores, all for a badge and perceived "quality".

Time and time again I see friends/colleagues buying "practical" SUVs/4wds that have little boot space compared to a station wagon, and just as heavy on fuel or worse.

I am sure we all know of someone who has bought a car that has made you think, how could anyone be so stupid when clearly superior local choices were on offer?

I honestly think regardless of all the other factors it is this trend that has driven the death of the local car makers, I doubt there is much else anyone could have done that would have changed what has happened, maybe just extended it out a bit longer.

Finally I feel very sorry for all the workers who have lost jobs and/or will be losing it in future.

[Rodge]

There's a silver lining in every cloud. Lobby your Govt to allow parallel imports from any part of the world duty free and you can enjoy incredible bargains on high end Euro cars for a fraction fo the cost like us Kiwi's do.
Anyone fancy a Jaguar XFR for HSV Senator money ?
How about a Mercedes Benz E63 S instead of a HSV GTS ?

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

I am sure we all know of someone who has bought a car that has made you think, how could anyone be so stupid when clearly superior local choices were on offer?

I sometimes think that about people who buy local cars.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Rodge

There's a silver lining in every cloud. Lobby your Govt to allow parallel imports from any part of the world duty free and you can enjoy incredible bargains on high end Euro cars for a fraction fo the cost like us Kiwi's do.
Anyone fancy a Jaguar XFR for HSV Senator money ?
How about a Mercedes Benz E63 S instead of a HSV GTS ?

The probably one and only good thing coming out of the Productivity Commission review is dismantling regulatory barriers to importing used cars. Provided they are RHD and made to comply with ADR's.

The blanket ban we have now on anything younger than 1990 unless it is new is stupid.

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

I guess i'll give my 2 cents.....

Whilst I agree there is some merit to blaming Unions, Governments, workers and productivity etc etc etc, at the end of the day I think a few earlier posters nailed the main reason why.

The Australian people's choice of cars they buy is too often incredibly stupid.

Time and time again I know of people paying for grossly over-priced and under-specced Euros compared to Falcons or Commodores, all for a badge and perceived "quality".

Time and time again I see friends/colleagues buying "practical" SUVs/4wds that have little boot space compared to a station wagon, and just as heavy on fuel or worse.

I am sure we all know of someone who has bought a car that has made you think, how could anyone be so stupid when clearly superior local choices were on offer?

I honestly think regardless of all the other factors it is this trend that has driven the death of the local car makers, I doubt there is much else anyone could have done that would have changed what has happened, maybe just extended it out a bit longer.

Finally I feel very sorry for all the workers who have lost jobs and/or will be losing it in future.

This post is so true. Back in the late 90's when I used to drive hp falcons, my neighbours, friends etc thought I was cool. That was also back in the day when most people drank VB's and smoked cigarettes. Now the people around me think I am a bogan in my GT. I don't drink VB's cause compared to most craft beers, it tastes like cats ****. Australia and I suppose more so Melbournains have become a lot more arty. They have leaned more towards Europe for style and than any other country. You are now smart if you drive a Volkswagen even though you have no idea what TSI means. And if you're cashed up then I guess a merc, audi or beemer is now affordable thanks to financiers that are prepared to cop higher residuals which then brings their monthly repayments near a comparable level to our high end local heros. Blame the politians and all and sundries. I am not blaming anyone. But will have a giant crack at the next bloke who appears disappointed by what's happened here who had the choice to buy Australian but settled for an import. If you don't own and don't drive Australian, well you're the cause and you aint got 2c to spend on this topic.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

This post is so true... I am not blaming anyone. But will have a giant crack at the next bloke who appears disappointed by what's happened here who had the choice to buy Australian but settled for an import. If you don't own and don't drive Australian, well you're the cause and you aint got 2c to spend on this topic.

For someone who isn't blaming anyone, you do appear to be blaming everyone who hasn't bought an Aussie car. Of course there may be some other subliminal message in your comments which for the life of me I can not comprehend

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

This!!! I know of several people who are contemplating pulling the pin on their small businesses due to the amount of red tape.

You can put us on that list. Honestly, for the profit versus amount of headaches we get, we'd be better off gutting the factory and renting out units instead.

[MercuryT]

Originally Posted by Wretched

I sometimes think that about people who buy local cars.

Sure it can cut both ways, but some of the rubbish on our roads that people buy never ceases to amaze me.

Falcodores have their faults, but they still a better choice than many of the rest all factors considered.

[Gadgetman]

Originally Posted by cheap

For someone who isn't blaming anyone, you do appear to be blaming everyone who hasn't bought an Aussie car. Of course there may be some other subliminal message in your comments which for the life of me I can not comprehend

Let me break it down for you. If you are crying about the end of local manufacturing like the last bloke I spoke to today who was driving a current model CX9 when he clearly could have bought a territory or a Sportswagon. Think about the hypocrisy in this.

[mik]

Govco has given the importers sales advantage, even though they ship them here, they can still make a profit on them, the die was cast decades ago and consecutive govco policys have continually driven the cost up to build stuff here, add to that all the other thorns in the side of manufacturers generous pay and conditions compared to other nations, lack of support ......... we have been our own economic worst enemy.

[MercuryT]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

Let me break it down for you. If you are crying about the end of local manufacturing like the last bloke I spoke to today who was driving a current model CX9 when he clearly could have bought a territory or a Sportswagon. Think about the hypocrisy in this.

Agree. Both of which are superior options to the CX9 IMHO, but aren't bought due to Mazda being 'stylish' or some other nonsense.

I know a guy here at work who claimed it was a shame Ford are wrapping up, yet last year went out and bought a Jeep Cherokee Laredo for about 65 grand for the missus to drive the kids to school.....

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

Agree. Both of which are superior options to the CX9 IMHO, but aren't bought due to Mazda being 'stylish' or some other nonsense.

I know a guy here at work who claimed it was a shame Ford are wrapping up, yet last year went out and bought a Jeep Cherokee Laredo for about 65 grand for the missus to drive the kids to school.....

Im sure he thinks it is a shame, as it sure is, but you dont have to drive one to think that. You also dont have to give a toss about ford to consider it a shame. You are a minority die hard ford supporter, good for you. But your jeep owning guy at work isn't.
Do you only watch australian produced Television programms and Film and other entertainment?. Bit of a nonsense if you dont.

JP

[BHDOGS]

Tis quite simply really nobody gives a real **** unless its there job its not there job so its abit of oh well that sucks back to my life Australians are selfish ****s and will always be the problem with manufacturing in this country.

[MercuryT]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Im sure he thinks it is a shame, as it sure is, but you dont have to drive one to think that. You also dont have to give a toss about ford to consider it a shame. You are a minority die hard ford supporter, good for you. But your jeep owning guy at work isn't.
Do you only watch australian produced Television programms and Film and other entertainment?. Bit of a nonsense if you dont.

JP

Firstly I am not a die-hard Ford supporter and have never claimed to be. I love my old BA Turbo, but previous car was a VX Clubsport.

Secondly i'm not saying he has to drive a local product, and i'm aware there might be better options in many situations. But in this instance the choice of car was extremely poor IMO, especially as it will never see off-road action where Jeep and Land Rovers etc still do well.

Thirdly, I think suggesting I am some pro-Aust everything like I am stupid is a bit harsh actually. I was simply making a point that I think plenty of people pay good money for cars which don't make much sense other than a badge or 'style', and I believe the local products have suffered badly from this 'imported is always better' mentality regarding cars.

[MercuryT]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

This post is so true. Back in the late 90's when I used to drive hp falcons, my neighbours, friends etc thought I was cool. That was also back in the day when most people drank VB's and smoked cigarettes. Now the people around me think I am a bogan in my GT. I don't drink VB's cause compared to most craft beers, it tastes like cats ****. Australia and I suppose more so Melbournains have become a lot more arty. They have leaned more towards Europe for style and than any other country. You are now smart if you drive a Volkswagen even though you have no idea what TSI means. And if you're cashed up then I guess a merc, audi or beemer is now affordable thanks to financiers that are prepared to cop higher residuals which then brings their monthly repayments near a comparable level to our high end local heros. Blame the politians and all and sundries. I am not blaming anyone. But will have a giant crack at the next bloke who appears disappointed by what's happened here who had the choice to buy Australian but settled for an import. If you don't own and don't drive Australian, well you're the cause and you aint got 2c to spend on this topic.

Yes mate, totally agree there. In fact it is more recent than that even for me as when I bought my BA Turbo 6 years ago a few of my mates thought it pretty "mad", but now they laugh when I suggest I want to upgrade to another local (second hand) like a VE SS Sportswagon or Territory Turbo.

It has been a really noticeable change. Yet, its interesting, as being in Tassie anyone who buys food/wine that isn't local gets a few death stares. "Why buy imported rubbish when you have the best produce in the world right here" is a typical response.

Amazing the hypocrisy as locally whilst fantastic we don't always have the best food/wine, yet people buy it thinking it is. With cars the same people think the exact opposite despite some fantastic options. Sometimes with merit, but mostly not.

[Xauterus]

Where was the Australian car industry? All the big players are owned by overseas companies. Cars would have been imported originally but it was more economical to have them made here.
Americans went through a boom in the automotive industry then were slaughtered by better cheaper imported cars.
Why wouldn't big companies just move to cheaper countries for production. Every Australian manufacturing company has moved to cheaper countries or gone bust.

We need invention and innovation to create the future industries in Australia. We need to work out how to prevent droughts and make efficient farming a priority. The future resources are not mining based. They are food and water based. Why are overseas countries buying farms here? They know where the shortages will be in the future.

[gtfpv]

well many foretasted Toyota Australias demise . i dont want to argue about fault anymore . it's beyond that now .
where are we going as a nation ? perhaps this should be a new thread ? surely ther must be plans and hope for employment and some sort of work for australia . i dont want to accept doom and poverty . i'm pretty much losing hope . need some optimistic enthusiasm to tell me there is a plan and we'll be right mate .

[cheap]

Originally Posted by Gadgetman

Let me break it down for you. If you are crying about the end of local manufacturing like the last bloke I spoke to today who was driving a current model CX9 when he clearly could have bought a territory or a Sportswagon. Think about the hypocrisy in this.

I'm not seeing the hypocrisy, some peoples would view the CX9 as a better vehicle.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

Firstly I am not a die-hard Ford supporter and have never claimed to be. I love my old BA Turbo, but previous car was a VX Clubsport.

Secondly i'm not saying he has to drive a local product, and i'm aware there might be better options in many situations. But in this instance the choice of car was extremely poor IMO, especially as it will never see off-road action where Jeep and Land Rovers etc still do well.

Thirdly, I think suggesting I am some pro-Aust everything like I am stupid is a bit harsh actually. I was simply making a point that I think plenty of people pay good money for cars which don't make much sense other than a badge or 'style', and I believe the local products have suffered badly from this 'imported is always better' mentality regarding cars.

Yes, perhaps I was a bit harsh but used your post to prove a point. Too many people cry Buy Australian but don't realise that every decison they personally make from choice of car, fridge and TV show etc has an impact on 'Made in Australia' but then demands that someone who shares an alternate point of view is either un-Australian or stupid. We all have opinions and make purchasing decisions based on a rich mix of reasons. You are guilty of doubting and critisising the validity of those decisions and personal reasons, despite not understanding their reasoning, and car badge snobery is prefectly valid.


JP

[cheap]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

well many foretasted Toyota Australias demise . i dont want to argue about fault anymore . it's beyond that now .
where are we going as a nation ? perhaps this should be a new thread ? surely ther must be plans and hope for employment and some sort of work for australia . i dont want to accept doom and poverty . i'm pretty much losing hope . need some optimistic enthusiasm to tell me there is a plan and we'll be right mate .

Pay off your mortgage, review your discressionary spending, batten down the hatches it's going to get worse before it gets better. This is a worldwide problem and the big economies have been run into the ground, they are in big big financial trouble (even China), Australia is a small minow swimming in a big pond full of sharks.

Times like these liquidity is better than equity.

Keep fit, eat well, look after the family and drive the GT as often as you can.

[gtfpv]

we all know that ford were making cars that australians werent buying and to lesser extent holden . but toyota had great australian sales did they not . so we cant really blame low sales for anything maybe , unless toyota is leaving australia for a different reason than ford .

[cheap]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

we all know that ford were making cars that australians werent buying and to lesser extent holden . but toyota had great australian sales did they not . so we cant really blame low sales for anything maybe , unless toyota is leaving australia for a different reason than ford .

More profitable to make Camry's in Thailand, less union interference, less govt & environment hassles, no CO2 tax....the list goes on and on. No one should be surprised.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by MercuryT

It has been a really noticeable change.

When you've tried the imported offering and see just how much you can get for your money, its pretty hard to justify continuing to be a member of the falcadore beta testing program.

[MercuryT]

Originally Posted by b0son

When you've tried the imported offering and see just how much you can get for your money, its pretty hard to justify continuing to be a member of the falcadore beta testing program.

Fair enough, each to their own.

I agree Jap cars do have our measure features and reliability wise, I won't argue too much there but they aren't cheap either. US and especially Euro (considering their pricing here) are simply ridiculously overpriced or just plain ordinary IMHO.

The lower end of market gets buyers based on price and warranty no doubt. Still, I think far too many (and I also mean close to home) just have had blinkers on before even trying.

As poster said ^^, it has just been a massive change of mindset to fit in with fashion. I will still buy my Territory Turbo or VE SS Wagon for practicality reasons, and i'm looking forward to it. No other option comes even close for 25K based on $$, the R36 is the closest and I admit I will consider it.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by johnydep

Do tell

The facts are that with huge export markets, every English owned vehicle/Motorcycle manufacturer died by a thousand cuts at some stage.

Industry, Government and the workforce went through huge change and turmoil during the 70's and 80's, only to come out stronger in many other industries. Giving people and business more power and disposable income.

I am in total agreement, the British auto industry died over the course of the 1970's and 1980's. Where we differ is that I contend that British manufacturing as a whole is in life support mode. Yes, cars are still made there, but all of the plants are foreign owned. How much longer they will keep these plants going is anyone's guess.

The biggest issue I think is the fact that the percentage contributed to the GDP due to manufacturing is dropping rather rapidly, despite some claims that the dollar/pound amount of value added by manufacture increasing.

I'd actually bookmarked this article from "The Guardian" a few years ago and thought it was fitting for the discussion here:

http://www.theguardian.com/business/...-manufacturing

In a nutshell, I found that it was a rather accurate depiction of the state of manufacturing in Britain, both from reading and my personal experiences from spending time there and talking to many small business owners engaged in manufacturing in some capacity.