SCT Advisory

[Justin@]

Originally Posted by FordACE

My brother is not going to be a happy chappy. His car has been custom tuned once with the X1, and he bought it while it was still lots of money. He planned on getting it tuned again in the near future after a few mods. Honestly, this is wrong and should not be happening. Hopefully, you soon realise this is a bad mistake.

thats just the point mate.... its not a mistake.
SCT has done this to "protect themselves " from the x1 box's design flaws. Just by a stroke of good luck though they can sell you a new improved product at a price.
There have been a lot of questions left unanswered in this thread, and a lot of smoke and mirrors from charlie. One of the tuners asked some good questions about why did SCT need to know stock levels and such but there was no reply to that either.

[rods falcon]

Surely a simple answer to all this is to retain the ability to use XCAL1, but if the box is locked then have a mechanism where you or your tuner have to apply directly to SCT to unlock it and pay a fee for that service (say for example $200).

SCT would still be getting an income from the boxes, those people who are updating their existing tunes on their existing vehicles are looked after and those moving to a new vehicle and own a box can either choose to pay $200 to unlock the box or update to XCAL3 or successor.

Over time, as with all software, newer options will make the newer software more attractive and most of the prople will move on at their own choice.

Or am I missing something?

[qwiksix]

Charlie

I have been looking at getting a tune in the near future, and naturally was considering the SCT products. I am also considering a number of mods over several years that will require new tunes created by a tuner that will need to be flashed onto my car.

Can you please advise:
- What is the end of support life for X-Cal2?, ie how long does SCT plan to manufacture this product? How long after that will they allow tuners to create tunes that flash box owners can then flash onto their own car?
- What is the end of support life for X-Cal3? ie how long does SCT plan to manufacture this product? How long after that will they allow tuners to create tunes that flash box owners can then flash onto their own car?
- What is SCTs overall strategy for support of any of their future products?

Thanks
qs

[screaminB]

Originally Posted by Charlie@sct

How many more bolts on are you going with? Do the tunes you have now cover the mods?

Charlie@sct

charlie it is not a matter of how many bolt ons ,and its also not that the current tunes cover the mods.As in my case the car is always being tuned to try different setups.With any modified car you are always trying new parts ,new ideas new direction .And to say what you did is a cop out ,we know that this particular dealer stuffed you up, but why make the 5000 odd customers with xcal1 and for that matter xcal2 pay for one mans greed.

[MAD]

Seems to me like there will be no case against CAPA as they found a loop hole and exploited it and there was sweet FA that SCT could do about it.
Yes, what they did is dodgy and probably illegal in Australia, but it seems to be the lesser of these two evils, at least the product they sold actually did what it was advertised to do.
SCT could have turned their backs on this and just taken the small royalty losses, but instead they have destroyed a working product and as earlier polls suggested about 85% of their business in Australia, hiding behind the guise of "we're looking after customers so they dont get ripped off" is not going to cut the mustard in this case, we all know you're chasing money.
And from chasing that money, you will lose a LOT over the next few years, once you receive a bad name, its very hard to reverse it.


How about you unleash the unadulterated truth on us about this situation?
I'm sure everyone here would appreciate the REAL story, not your smoke and mirrors.


Just FYI, I dont own one of these devices, nor am I in the market for one and wont be for quite some time. I'm in an E-series so I can take advantage of an Australian made J3 chip with programmer for less than $200. But I can assure you Charlie, I will NEVER buy anything from SCT.

[rodderz]

I think the normal thing to do with products that are updated over time would be to ensure that ALL the products, do fundamentally the same thing. The boxes should all be able to tune a car, both with the pre-programmed generic tunes, or through a custom tune via the tuner shop. It's just that newer versions have more features, capabilities such as data logging etc. It's up to the individual to update if they wish, with clever marketing and a good reputation they will. I realise the xcal 1 has its flaws which has been taken advantage of by a particular tuning shop but it's up to the supplier to straighten this out.

Fundamentally Window's versions all the same thing ie. run a computer yet the later versions have a lot more features. Older versions may not run this and that program designed to run on Vista but they all still run a PC. The SCT boxes should be doing the same thing.

[JC]

Why aren't any of you with affected boxes seeking a refund? You are entitled to a refund if the item you bought is not fit for the purpose it was bought for, or if it fails to live up to advertised features. I would suggest that the inability to transfer the box to 5 different cars means it does not live up to the second part, and the fact that it mostly now cannot be retuned for your own car means it doesn't meet the first. i understand that technology moves on, and that software is continually updated, but even microsoft make sure that new versions are backwards compatible - SCT should do the same, or pay refunds to those affected, IMO. A call to consumer affairs would be in order, I'd suggest.

[ratter]

Hi guys
after taking 2 days of reading different forums and talking to a couple of the major players involved in all this, I have to admit I'm not 100% clear of the future of our tuning product, but will try to set a few things straight as far as I'm aware of things.

When we purchased the SCT software, we had to sign 2 contract agreements, a contract for Capa and a contract for SCT. Some of the clauses in these contracts relate to us not trying to hack the software or reverse engineer their tuning devices and also not willingly allow another person to do the same.

As tuners we have the ability to unlock a flash box, providing the original tune was returned to the original car, the owner could then reuse his flash box on another car and this could be done up to a total of 5 cars. Now if this orignal tune was not returned, we as tuners could not unlock these boxes, so they originally would have to go back to SCT to be unlocked. They would normally only do this after a car was written off or was stolen and the owner still had their flash box, but legal proof would have to be produced.
SCT eventually allowed an australian distributor the ability to unlock these boxes to save sending them back to the states.
It has been reported that an australian distributor was recently trying to sell flash boxes that they would continually unlock for a fee, which means a customer could get a car tuned but without the cost of a flash box, but they would not own a flash box. Now this may work out cheaper for the customer for a 1 off tune, but if they wanted tune touch ups they would continiually have to absorb the unlocking fee, so after maybe 3or4 changes, they would be worse off and still not own a flash box. This distributor has also posted, that this was not happening, but they threw it out there to see if there was a need for it.

This may not seem like a big deal to some customers, but it would be for SCT. Most software companies make their income by receiving licence fees. If you have another brand of car tuned, normally in part of the price is a fee for a vehicle licence or if no licence fee is applied, the tuner has paid a lot more money to have unlimited licences for a particular model and he would be passing on some of that extra cost as part of his price to meet his overheads. We have to think of these flash boxes as SCT's licence fee, every time they sell a flash box they received their licence fee. By a company/person having the ability to reuse a box over and over on different cars is basically robbing SCT, basically piratcy.

Now I don't think at this stage anyone actually cares about SCT at the moment, because of the way they have decided to conduct themselves, but they had to take measures to stop this from happening. The way they have done it is wrong as far as I'm concerned, I believe there is better ways, but now we have to suffer.
SCT has not sold any Xcal1 (our flash box) since 2005, they are old technology and all companies stop supporting an old product at some stage, but they should not stop it from working, just allow it to die a natural death from either old age or using all it's lives.

As far as Herrod, they have not just been made the distributor, we were informed before october last year that they were now the australian distributor and once anyone elses stock was sold, Herrod would be the sole distributor for australia. Now SCT has told us in the last 8 months or so, that we could deal directly with them, so I'm not sure whether this still applies with Herrods being the local distributor. I believe Herrod sell the X3 as this is the current unit being used in the states, SCT do not sell the Xcal1 or flash 2 anymore.
The unit is dearer than what we have become accustomed to, but remeber that the flash box was $1295 when it came out.
X3 is not the Livewire tuner

It appears that next week, SCT will be going over tuners and allowing some the ability to be able to flash the boxes again, but this appears to be for only another 90 days at this stage, but I know talks are still happening regarding this.

As far as other tuning options, I have spoken to some other tuners that have toyed with other software and it appears they are not compatiable with all processor codes and models at this stage, so some cars could be tuned with brand A but not brand B, so it appears SCT is the best product at the moment, but things may change in the future.

I think if distributors of sniper or VCM suite are serious about their product, they could offer tuners a sample of their software with possibly the ability to flash 1 car, so a good comparison can be made about products.

I believe SCT had to act
I believe they went about it the wrong way
I don't believe Herrod's are the villians

Pit Lane still has 290 burns left so we can still do a few cars and hopefully it will be sorted by the time they are used.

[FPVF6X201]

Originally Posted by TVS Super Pursuit

Wrong.

Yes it can, SCT Advantage V2.9 still functions perfectly. There is no 90 day limit with this version of SCT. It does have limited support however in that it cannot do FG's and late model BFII's. As I stated earlier any tuner/dealer who still has this version of the software can continue to tune the XCal1 units. Anyone new to having a tune done with a late model BFII/FG should be directed to purchase a XC2/XC3 for their vehicle, and they can continue to have tunes added/changed to their box.

The issues lies with tuners/SCT Dealers who came on board when Advantage V3.whatever was released and they purchased that instead of V2.9, or, they no longer have their version of V2.9.

Clear?

Thanks TVS, this seems to clear it up quite a bit. Do you or anyone else here know what is meant by "late model BFII" ie: what date of manufacture does it relate to? I ask this because i have an 05/08 Turbo Territory. I bought a box of ebay which has only been used on one vehicle (so 4 lives left). The original owner supplied a dyno sheet that was done in July 2006. Do you know whether this box can be used on an 08 model vehicle?

I understand now that i will need to find a tuner who still has Advantage 2.9 to modify the actual box. Whether it can then be used on my car is the part i am unsure of.


Maybe i missed it or it has been removed by mods, but has the "dodgy" dealer been named?

[BPXR6T]

I think SCT basically decided everyone with an XCAL1 was in on what the dodgy distributor was doing. The reality is most of SCT's customers have been punished without commiting a crime.

I have an XCAL2 so seem to have been lucky. Before yesterday would have I bought an XCAL3, absolutely. After yesterday would I buy an XCAL3. Nope, never. I'd prefer to drive a holden.

[Spanrz]

My thoughts.
I deal not so much with Cars, but machines. But I have done a lot of computer updating to the ECU/ECM/etc.

(aimed at the SCT box, not so much of the Ford ECM)
When you flash or modify parameters of an ECM, if something outside it's parameters, usually if the programming is right, it should allow you to flash the ecm, but with the manufacturers consent (so they can log the actual flash).
The consent request (password request) is sent to the manf (eg SCT) and they will give you a code (huge list of numbers and letters) put them in to the interface and the flash is done. (laptop needed)

This is the only way to keep on top of unlocking these boxes, so that SCT can see what other "dealers" are doing.
SCT needs to make sure on the programming, that if anyone tinkers with the parameters that includes "unlocking" or a warranty issue, that SCT should be aware of it.

[bonspeed]

Originally Posted by ratter

Hi guys
after taking 2 days of reading different forums and talking to a couple of the major players involved in all this, I have to admit I'm not 100% clear of the future of our tuning product, but will try to set a few things straight as far as I'm aware of things.

When we purchased the SCT software, we had to sign 2 contract agreements, a contract for Capa and a contract for SCT. Some of the clauses in these contracts relate to us not trying to hack the software or reverse engineer their tuning devices and also not willingly allow another person to do the same.

As tuners we have the ability to unlock a flash box, providing the original tune was returned to the original car, the owner could then reuse his flash box on another car and this could be done up to a total of 5 cars. Now if this orignal tune was not returned, we as tuners could not unlock these boxes, so they originally would have to go back to SCT to be unlocked. They would normally only do this after a car was written off or was stolen and the owner still had their flash box, but legal proof would have to be produced.
SCT eventually allowed an australian distributor the ability to unlock these boxes to save sending them back to the states.
It has been reported that an australian distributor was recently trying to sell flash boxes that they would continually unlock for a fee, which means a customer could get a car tuned but without the cost of a flash box, but they would not own a flash box. Now this may work out cheaper for the customer for a 1 off tune, but if they wanted tune touch ups they would continiually have to absorb the unlocking fee, so after maybe 3or4 changes, they would be worse off and still not own a flash box. This distributor has also posted, that this was not happening, but they threw it out there to see if there was a need for it.

This may not seem like a big deal to some customers, but it would be for SCT. Most software companies make their income by receiving licence fees. If you have another brand of car tuned, normally in part of the price is a fee for a vehicle licence or if no licence fee is applied, the tuner has paid a lot more money to have unlimited licences for a particular model and he would be passing on some of that extra cost as part of his price to meet his overheads. We have to think of these flash boxes as SCT's licence fee, every time they sell a flash box they received their licence fee. By a company/person having the ability to reuse a box over and over on different cars is basically robbing SCT, basically piratcy.

Now I don't think at this stage anyone actually cares about SCT at the moment, because of the way they have decided to conduct themselves, but they had to take measures to stop this from happening. The way they have done it is wrong as far as I'm concerned, I believe there is better ways, but now we have to suffer.
SCT has not sold any Xcal1 (our flash box) since 2005, they are old technology and all companies stop supporting an old product at some stage, but they should not stop it from working, just allow it to die a natural death from either old age or using all it's lives.

As far as Herrod, they have not just been made the distributor, we were informed before october last year that they were now the australian distributor and once anyone elses stock was sold, Herrod would be the sole distributor for australia. Now SCT has told us in the last 8 months or so, that we could deal directly with them, so I'm not sure whether this still applies with Herrods being the local distributor. I believe Herrod sell the X3 as this is the current unit being used in the states, SCT do not sell the Xcal1 or flash 2 anymore.
The unit is dearer than what we have become accustomed to, but remeber that the flash box was $1295 when it came out.
X3 is not the Livewire tuner

It appears that next week, SCT will be going over tuners and allowing some the ability to be able to flash the boxes again, but this appears to be for only another 90 days at this stage, but I know talks are still happening regarding this.

As far as other tuning options, I have spoken to some other tuners that have toyed with other software and it appears they are not compatiable with all processor codes and models at this stage, so some cars could be tuned with brand A but not brand B, so it appears SCT is the best product at the moment, but things may change in the future.

I think if distributors of sniper or VCM suite are serious about their product, they could offer tuners a sample of their software with possibly the ability to flash 1 car, so a good comparison can be made about products.

I believe SCT had to act
I believe they went about it the wrong way
I don't believe Herrod's are the villians

Pit Lane still has 290 burns left so we can still do a few cars and hopefully it will be sorted by the time they are used.

At last some decent information, thanks Ratter.

I have 3 question's, The x3 does not live tune?
VCM suite does?
What about Sniper?

[ratter]

Originally Posted by bonspeed

I have 3 question's, The x3 does not live tune?
VCM suite does?
What about Sniper?

No product does live tuning on our ecu's and as far as the info I have, they nevel will be able to due to the setup of the ECU.

I hope this live tuning info is incorrect and would like to hear if indeed it is possible

[Fireblade]

Originally Posted by ratter

As tuners we have the ability to unlock a flash box, providing the original tune was returned to the original car, the owner could then reuse his flash box on another car and this could be done up to a total of 5 cars. Now if this orignal tune was not returned, we as tuners could not unlock these boxes, so they originally would have to go back to SCT to be unlocked. They would normally only do this after a car was written off or was stolen and the owner still had their flash box, but legal proof would have to be produced.
SCT eventually allowed an australian distributor the ability to unlock these boxes to save sending them back to the states.
It has been reported that an australian distributor was recently trying to sell flash boxes that they would continually unlock for a fee, which means a customer could get a car tuned but without the cost of a flash box, but they would not own a flash box. Now this may work out cheaper for the customer for a 1 off tune, but if they wanted tune touch ups they would continiually have to absorb the unlocking fee, so after maybe 3or4 changes, they would be worse off and still not own a flash box. This distributor has also posted, that this was not happening, but they threw it out there to see if there was a need for it.

This may not seem like a big deal to some customers, but it would be for SCT. Most software companies make their income by receiving licence fees. If you have another brand of car tuned, normally in part of the price is a fee for a vehicle licence or if no licence fee is applied, the tuner has paid a lot more money to have unlimited licences for a particular model and he would be passing on some of that extra cost as part of his price to meet his overheads. We have to think of these flash boxes as SCT's licence fee, every time they sell a flash box they received their licence fee. By a company/person having the ability to reuse a box over and over on different cars is basically robbing SCT, basically piracy.

Now I don't think at this stage anyone actually cares about SCT at the moment, because of the way they have decided to conduct themselves, but they had to take measures to stop this from happening. The way they have done it is wrong as far as I'm concerned, I believe there is better ways, but now we have to suffer.
SCT has not sold any Xcal1 (our flash box) since 2005, they are old technology and all companies stop supporting an old product at some stage, but they should not stop it from working, just allow it to die a natural death from either old age or using all it's lives.

Exactly, I dont condone what SCT have done by any means and it too affects me, but to SCT they feel they probably had no choice but to do this to protect their income stream, I for one on Monday will be checking with my tuner how many times my box has been used and then seeking advice on the next course of action, if it has been used prior to my owning then CAPA I will see because I bought it in good faith of it being brand new. Spitting chips half way around the world isnt going to solve it and really isnt it a little funny were only hearing from Charlie at SCT what about the other players. Its like a pirated copy of windows or any other program, once they realise they switch off the support and this is exactly what SCT have done, they havent rendered the box useless as the box actually still operates, its the tuning side that has been affected, wonder how many people out there have pirated flash tuners as such? You might not know, but as the law says ignorance is no excuse. I want my money back from CAPA, theyre the pirates and you guys skip them and go straight to the big business that manufactures them. I for one am ****ed at CAPA for this situation if they didnt do what they have done this wouldnt be happening.

[CAT600]

Well now, Ratter has cleared the air on who is to blame for stirring the ruckus. out:

Once SCT work out which distributor(s) and dealer(s) are involved (in the "premature" local unlocking of Xcal1's for financial gain or marketing competition) there will be some order restored.

Whether Xcal1's regain full functionality is yet to be seen, but after a lot of thought, I personally am confident that SCT will come to the party in one form or another. The hold they currently have on the Australian market would weigh heavily on their minds...............

and us Aussies are a vocal lot : :

[badxr6]

Originally Posted by TVS Super Pursuit

Wrong.

Yes it can, SCT Advantage V2.9 still functions perfectly. There is no 90 day limit with this version of SCT. It does have limited support however in that it cannot do FG's and late model BFII's. As I stated earlier any tuner/dealer who still has this version of the software can continue to tune the XCal1 units. Anyone new to having a tune done with a late model BFII/FG should be directed to purchase a XC2/XC3 for their vehicle, and they can continue to have tunes added/changed to their box.

The issues lies with tuners/SCT Dealers who came on board when Advantage V3.whatever was released and they purchased that instead of V2.9, or, they no longer have their version of V2.9.

Clear?

if what you are saying is correct than there is no problem.

[SpoolMan]

Originally Posted by ratter

Hi guys
after taking 2 days of reading different forums and talking to a couple of the major players involved in all this, I have to admit I'm not 100% clear of the future of our tuning product, but will try to set a few things straight as far as I'm aware of things.

When we purchased the SCT software, we had to sign 2 contract agreements, a contract for Capa and a contract for SCT. Some of the clauses in these contracts relate to us not trying to hack the software or reverse engineer their tuning devices and also not willingly allow another person to do the same.

As tuners we have the ability to unlock a flash box, providing the original tune was returned to the original car, the owner could then reuse his flash box on another car and this could be done up to a total of 5 cars. Now if this orignal tune was not returned, we as tuners could not unlock these boxes, so they originally would have to go back to SCT to be unlocked. They would normally only do this after a car was written off or was stolen and the owner still had their flash box, but legal proof would have to be produced.
SCT eventually allowed an australian distributor the ability to unlock these boxes to save sending them back to the states.
It has been reported that an australian distributor was recently trying to sell flash boxes that they would continually unlock for a fee, which means a customer could get a car tuned but without the cost of a flash box, but they would not own a flash box. Now this may work out cheaper for the customer for a 1 off tune, but if they wanted tune touch ups they would continiually have to absorb the unlocking fee, so after maybe 3or4 changes, they would be worse off and still not own a flash box. This distributor has also posted, that this was not happening, but they threw it out there to see if there was a need for it.

This may not seem like a big deal to some customers, but it would be for SCT. Most software companies make their income by receiving licence fees. If you have another brand of car tuned, normally in part of the price is a fee for a vehicle licence or if no licence fee is applied, the tuner has paid a lot more money to have unlimited licences for a particular model and he would be passing on some of that extra cost as part of his price to meet his overheads. We have to think of these flash boxes as SCT's licence fee, every time they sell a flash box they received their licence fee. By a company/person having the ability to reuse a box over and over on different cars is basically robbing SCT, basically piratcy.

Now I don't think at this stage anyone actually cares about SCT at the moment, because of the way they have decided to conduct themselves, but they had to take measures to stop this from happening. The way they have done it is wrong as far as I'm concerned, I believe there is better ways, but now we have to suffer.
SCT has not sold any Xcal1 (our flash box) since 2005, they are old technology and all companies stop supporting an old product at some stage, but they should not stop it from working, just allow it to die a natural death from either old age or using all it's lives.

As far as Herrod, they have not just been made the distributor, we were informed before october last year that they were now the australian distributor and once anyone elses stock was sold, Herrod would be the sole distributor for australia. Now SCT has told us in the last 8 months or so, that we could deal directly with them, so I'm not sure whether this still applies with Herrods being the local distributor. I believe Herrod sell the X3 as this is the current unit being used in the states, SCT do not sell the Xcal1 or flash 2 anymore.
The unit is dearer than what we have become accustomed to, but remeber that the flash box was $1295 when it came out.
X3 is not the Livewire tuner

It appears that next week, SCT will be going over tuners and allowing some the ability to be able to flash the boxes again, but this appears to be for only another 90 days at this stage, but I know talks are still happening regarding this.

As far as other tuning options, I have spoken to some other tuners that have toyed with other software and it appears they are not compatiable with all processor codes and models at this stage, so some cars could be tuned with brand A but not brand B, so it appears SCT is the best product at the moment, but things may change in the future.

I think if distributors of sniper or VCM suite are serious about their product, they could offer tuners a sample of their software with possibly the ability to flash 1 car, so a good comparison can be made about products.

I believe SCT had to act
I believe they went about it the wrong way
I don't believe Herrod's are the villians

Pit Lane still has 290 burns left so we can still do a few cars and hopefully it will be sorted by the time they are used.

.
Excellent post Mick....something worth reading without the all rant, making many good clear points..
Thanks..

[bdave351]

Originally Posted by CAT600

and us Aussies are a vocal lot : :

Has anyone noticed any comment on any of the american (or other country) ford related forums?

Im sure some of them would be nervous thinking the same thing could happen to them with no warning.

[jetute]

Originally Posted by CAT600

Well now, Ratter has cleared the air on who is to blame for stirring the ruckus. out:

Once SCT work out which distributor(s) and dealer(s) are involved (in the "premature" local unlocking of Xcal1's for financial gain or marketing competition) there will be some order restored.

Whether Xcal1's regain full functionality is yet to be seen, but after a lot of thought, I personally am confident that SCT will come to the party in one form or another. The hold they currently have on the Australian market would weigh heavily on their minds...............

and us Aussies are a vocal lot : :

I received an email from sct... advising me that they will NOT be supporting the xcal1 due to one offeding AU dealer.

am glad that you have confidence in them... I would never place any confidence on a company that has just bent you over.

The only thing I am confident on... is that people who are confident that sct will come the party, can also be confident that they will have fork out extra coin!!

[SpoolMan]

Originally Posted by bdave351

Has anyone noticed any comment on any of the american (or other country) ford related forums?

Im sure some of them would be nervous thinking the same thing could happen to them with no warning.

US don't have x cal 1 support, they done away with it some time ago.

In the US the customer appears to be happy to trade up to the latest greatest gizmo's when there released, and this is where SCT have it wrong they don't understand the Australian market we are not Americans, we drive Falcons...

[ratter]

Originally Posted by CAT600

Well now, Ratter has cleared the air on who is to blame for stirring the ruckus. out:

Once SCT work out which distributor(s) and dealer(s) are involved (in the "premature" local unlocking of Xcal1's for financial gain or marketing competition) there will be some order restored.

Whether Xcal1's regain full functionality is yet to be seen, but after a lot of thought, I personally am confident that SCT will come to the party in one form or another. The hold they currently have on the Australian market would weigh heavily on their minds...............

and us Aussies are a vocal lot : :

I have not named a company, I'm only passing on info that I have found from various emails and communications with others.
If any information is incorrect, please can the associated parties please correct it

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by ratter

I have not named a company, I'm only passing on info that I have found from various emails and communications with others.
If any information is incorrect, please can the associated parties please correct it

i have no idea about any of this and therefore no opinion
however even with my limited knowledge/idea, i got the idea people were not happy with some who ratter mentioned long before his post

i do not think he cleared any air as to who is or isn't to blame. nor do i think he blamed anyone

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by jetute

I received an email from sct... advising me that they will NOT be supporting the xcal1 due to one offeding AU dealer.

am glad that you have confidence in them... I would never place any confidence on a company that has just bent you over.

The only thing I am confident on... is that people who are confident that sct will come the party, can also be confident that they will have fork out extra coin!!

It's strange, to me there are so many options outside the square that people are not looking at:

* V2.9 will continue to tune cars earlier than mid-07...... so all is not lost there, and that is unconditional provided you know a tuner with 2.9.

* SCT may yet extend the 90 day period out once the wheat is sorted from the chaff, this will render the point above irrelevant, and gives everybody a lot more time to make the transition.

* XCal1's have 3 months (nearly 4 if the dealer gets his tune count to 300 on day 89) to be relegated to lessor duties (like me putting mine onto my T3). Even if the car has no mods, a good tuner can write a few files with a variety of generic "states of tune", to suit (as examples) stock, an airbox and an airbox + full exhaust....... so the box is not a paperweight or doorstop

* There are a swag of advantages to update to Xcal3. Even though I am mindful about this issue NOT being a choice we get to make, I would use the example of updating cars, nobody NEEDS a new car, but new and better features encourage us to buy a later car. So not only will we get cool new features, if what Spooly says is correct, just like a car, you will even get a trade in on your old Xcal1.

Dont just put up brick walls, dont just look at the negative, have some belief that a company with 80+% of market share in this country will not cut off it's nose to spite it's face.

They have a lot to lose here also, it must be pretty substantial for such a sudden and aggressive action to be taken.

Daniel

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by ratter

I have not named a company, I'm only passing on info that I have found from various emails and communications with others.
If any information is incorrect, please can the associated parties please correct it

Maybe I should have written : Well now, Ratter has cleared the air on who is NOT to blame for stirring the ruckus...

Sorry if I have inferred anything there mate.

Daniel

[Walkinshaw]

This is where I see the problem headed.

Customer buys a NEW Xcal1 in good faith from tuner
*current problems arrise*
Customer gets their box checked - finds out their box was used on 2 vehicles previously (i.e box is not new)
Customer has contract with who they purchased it from (not with distributor)
Customer has the right to return the box to their tuner for a full refund
Tuner now has to seek compensation from the distributor.....*eeep*

The tuners are the ones who may/will get burnt here! Much more so than the end users.

[Redrum]

You are right, it is about money. It appears one Aussie distributor had a sook about another and here we are.

[gu4800]

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

US don't have x cal 1 support, they done away with it some time ago.

That may be the case, but there is a BIG difference between "no longer offering support" and "deliberately rendering a product useless". I highly doubt this would be legal, and time will tell if this has act has consequences for SCT.

All of us, whether we support what SCT did or not, should not lose sight of the fact that this was a deliberate measure by SCT. This deliberate act has had consequences for anyone who owns the Xcal1 - and the consequences were not as a result of the actions of that person.

Cheers

Dan

EDIT: I should also add, in my opinion this is the wrong way to go about things. Instead of rendering the product useless, they should really have taken action against the distributor concerned. That action should have have been via the CORRECT legal means. Actions drive behaviours - this action will turn some people of SCT in the future (and trust me, this will come up every time someone asks "how do I go about modding my car"), whereas taking legal action against the distributor concerned would send a very clear message to ALL distributors, but not at the cost of the reputation of SCT and unfortunately most dealers.

After all, if the dealer concerned really has done something in breach of the SCT agreement, then legal action would be a very simple and most likely successful course of action.

[loony888]

Originally Posted by CAT600

It's strange, to me there are so many options outside the square that people are not looking at:

* V2.9 will continue to tune cars earlier than mid-07...... so all is not lost there, and that is unconditional provided you know a tuner with 2.9.

* SCT may yet extend the 90 day period out once the wheat is sorted from the chaff, this will render the point above irrelevant, and gives everybody a lot more time to make the transition.

* XCal1's have 3 months (nearly 4 if the dealer gets his tune count to 300 on day 89) to be relegated to lessor duties (like me putting mine onto my T3). Even if the car has no mods, a good tuner can write a few files with a variety of generic "states of tune", to suit (as examples) stock, an airbox and an airbox + full exhaust....... so the box is not a paperweight or doorstop

* There are a swag of advantages to update to Xcal3. Even though I am mindful about this issue NOT being a choice we get to make, I would use the example of updating cars, nobody NEEDS a new car, but new and better features encourage us to buy a later car. So not only will we get cool new features, if what Spooly says is correct, just like a car, you will even get a trade in on your old Xcal1.

Dont just put up brick walls, dont just look at the negative, have some belief that a company with 80+% of market share in this country will not cut off it's nose to spite it's face.

They have a lot to lose here also, it must be pretty substantial for such a sudden and aggressive action to be taken.

Daniel

that may be so, but you're missing the point completely,
SCT have no right to render a product they have sold unusable. the product is completely dependent on the tuners ability to interface with their tuning software, SCT know this and do not care. regardless of their reasons, and i agree with SCT that they have a problem with illegal use, their way of dealing with that is inappropriate. they should be corresponding directly with the person or persons responsible, using the legal system and their contract to stop the actions they dispute.
It would seem they put in place a new product and a new distributor before this stunt in an effort to maintain the income stream but i'm guessing they didn't expect the backlash from customers.
i would be looking for a refund on the SCT product as it doesn't perform as advertised and buying something else, from another company


paul.

[bonspeed]

Originally Posted by Redrum

You are right, it is about money. It appears one Aussie distributor had a sook about another and here we are.

Its always about the money, you have indeed hit the nail on the head.

Im surprised more people are not upset with the dealer if indeed they have brought a second hand box. Im also a little shocked by how sct have responded. Great way to do business.

[jetute]

Originally Posted by CAT600

It's strange, to me there are so many options outside the square that people are not looking at:

* V2.9 will continue to tune cars earlier than mid-07...... so all is not lost there, and that is unconditional provided you know a tuner with 2.9.

* SCT may yet extend the 90 day period out once the wheat is sorted from the chaff, this will render the point above irrelevant, and gives everybody a lot more time to make the transition.

* XCal1's have 3 months (nearly 4 if the dealer gets his tune count to 300 on day 89) to be relegated to lessor duties (like me putting mine onto my T3). Even if the car has no mods, a good tuner can write a few files with a variety of generic "states of tune", to suit (as examples) stock, an airbox and an airbox + full exhaust....... so the box is not a paperweight or doorstop

* There are a swag of advantages to update to Xcal3. Even though I am mindful about this issue NOT being a choice we get to make, I would use the example of updating cars, nobody NEEDS a new car, but new and better features encourage us to buy a later car. So not only will we get cool new features, if what Spooly says is correct, just like a car, you will even get a trade in on your old Xcal1.

Dont just put up brick walls, dont just look at the negative, have some belief that a company with 80+% of market share in this country will not cut off it's nose to spite it's face.

They have a lot to lose here also, it must be pretty substantial for such a sudden and aggressive action to be taken.

Daniel

I buy a new car becasue I want to or choose to, not because ford shut down my ecu and forced me to. there is a BIG difference.

Windows 95 still works on my old pc, it still does what it was designed and advertised to do..... microsoft did not flick a switch to turn it off when xp and vista came out. they no longer support it but hey, it still kicks along.


no matter what excuse they come up with, its wronng!!!!!!!!!!!! and no1 should have to trade anything in to get the latest version as the original still works fine.

if everyon traded in their old box for a new one...a new one is (just a guess) $700. Now you may get $100 trade for your old box.... the new one cost the dealer $350 (just a guess).

so you can see.... only the end user loses out for the actions of one local dealer. whose making money and whose losing it? dealers make money, sct makes money. what do you do? you fork it out

but i tell you what, you give them your perfectly operating box for free and take the said $100 trade.... if you think your actually gettting something for that box, your dreaming... they are getting your box for free.

no point treating this box like its a car... it is not!!