Ford assumes sole responsibility for FPV

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by RASER

I smell a rat

Its all in the master plan, the Poms/Prodrive know Ford are going to shut manufacture, so they blinked first and left town.

Its Mr.Graziano's way of slowly winding down manufacture of Falcons in Oz, [notice how all the models are getting killed off] get over it, they had a very very good long innings [when the GovCo protected them with insane high tariff protection]

Now the level playing field is showing them they are out of there depth

Need a tin hat?


Prodrive are focusing on the job of racing, (hence keeping FPR), and improving their Rally teams. The thing is, now Ford are building FPR cars in house, reducing the number of redundacies, and creating more work in the engine plant.

Seems funny that they are "winding down" production, given the investments on the 2014 update...

[EgoFG]

Again, I feel this is a positive statement by Ford ...

I wonder how The changes in July fit it ?
that is the removing of the Boss (Barrett - Ford Employee) and replaceing him with a Prodrive person (Mears).

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by prydey

wipe your chin mate. do some research for a change instead of dribbling that crap. have a look at what other countries do to protect their own local industry.

also, as posted by someone who should know (in another thread), why would ford throw away 1-2 billion in revenue from the local products? how much does the imported stuff generate??

planet earth hey? i don't think so.

If that revenue doesn't generate profit then whats the point. Its useless.

Its a simple fact that no manufacturer will spend half a billion dollars creating a new car at Falcons price point for it only to sell 1000 or so a month. Its 100% unfeasible, unless by some miracle they have some sort of export plan for it, or they switch to a global model for production.

The original plan for FG to be sustainable with the money spent on it was 3500 a month. Its light years from that now.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

Again, I feel this is a positive statement by Ford ...

I wonder how The changes in July fit it ?
that is the removing of the Boss (Barrett - Ford Employee) and replaceing him with a Prodrive person (Mears).

Barrett was never a Ford employee, he was employed by Prodrive. Mears (his boss) was the one who fired and temporarily replaced him.

[prydey]

optimism never far away on this forum.

no one is saying everything is rosy. some just refuse to take the easy option of jumping on a bandwagon.

try being supportive for a change.

[Buntz]

I for one am glad that Ford is taking charge of FPV.

Prodrive didn't really do much but spend lots of money on just an engine.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

I for one am glad that Ford is taking charge of FPV.

Prodrive didn't really do much but spend lots of money on just an engine.

They provided what the buying public wanted. You obviously haven't read any of the thousands of posts when FG was released with the 315 Boss. The whingeing about expectations on how FPV should have crushed HSV with a more pwerful engine went on for ages. Then there was the whingeing about lack of Brembos on the rear of the GT and all round on the GS......closely followed by the whingeing on how spartan the GS was.....despite the fact that people wanted a stripped out version of the GT.

So Prodrive invest in the engine and bring out something more than we all expected and now the whingeing about the fact they did it....

Problem here is that some want all the fruit for $1.00 and even then they'll be complaining about the cost of fuel to run it.....or the choice of colours available.....or the type of tyre it was released with......or the leather on the seats......or the harsh ride.......or that it doesn't do 0-100 in 1.5 seconds.

At the end of the day....you get what you pay for. FPV vehicles are a modest blend of all round performance at BOGAN pricing. You want the best.....go pay 140k for an AMG or M3. I've driven a 3 year old M3 sedan.....as a comparison to my FPV.....well......let's just say its Vic Bitter V Dom perignon. They'll both get you drunk and inebriated - the only difference is the crowd you do it with and you'll be worse for wear after the Vic.

[pottery beige]

top post ESP as usual around here the ones with skinny wallets have the biggest opinions...

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

top post ESP as usual around here the ones with skinny wallets have the biggest opinions...

True. It's not brand loyalty that will keep Ford/FPV operating, it's those who put their money where their mouth is and purchase a new vehicle that keeps them going.

[flappist]

The bickering stops or the holidays start.

Dong ma?

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by ESP

They provided what the buying public wanted. You obviously haven't read any of the thousands of posts when FG was released with the 315 Boss. The whingeing about expectations on how FPV should have crushed HSV with a more pwerful engine went on for ages. Then there was the whingeing about lack of Brembos on the rear of the GT and all round on the GS......closely followed by the whingeing on how spartan the GS was.....despite the fact that people wanted a stripped out version of the GT.

So Prodrive invest in the engine and bring out something more than we all expected and now the whingeing about the fact they did it....

Problem here is that some want all the fruit for $1.00 and even then they'll be complaining about the cost of fuel to run it.....or the choice of colours available.....or the type of tyre it was released with......or the leather on the seats......or the harsh ride.......or that it doesn't do 0-100 in 1.5 seconds.

At the end of the day....you get what you pay for. FPV vehicles are a modest blend of all round performance at BOGAN pricing. You want the best.....go pay 140k for an AMG or M3. I've driven a 3 year old M3 sedan.....as a comparison to my FPV.....well......let's just say its Vic Bitter V Dom perignon. They'll both get you drunk and inebriated - the only difference is the crowd you do it with and you'll be worse for wear after the Vic.

The Miami engine is a fantastic engine... don't get me wrong. But it was too much for such small volume.

The kind of modifications they needed to be doing all along were these GT-Rspec's. Something that truly makes the car sporty.

HSV provided what the buying public wanted. - Garish, brash, in yer face boganista limo's.

FPV tried hard with a reserved styled car. But only the E variants were truly good-looking, because it was more inline with Ford's direction. And this is why ultimately, I think Ford will have some better success with whatever direction they take FPV now, as they are more in touch with the donor vehicle.

Don't anyone lose their cool though. Just my opinion.

[FPV GTHO]

Buntz, Miami HAD to happen. The only options were waiting on RoadRunner(BOSS302) and taking a hit on drive ability or paying a whole lot extra for Condor(GT500).

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Buntz, Miami HAD to happen. The only options were waiting on RoadRunner(BOSS302) and taking a hit on drive ability or paying a whole lot extra for Condor(GT500).

We don't know that. They could have extracted similar power from Coyote naturally aspirated.

As long as Ford has money to spend on the FPV range, I think we will see it spent where needed. It'll be cheaper for them now that they'll be assembled on the line.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

The Miami engine is a fantastic engine... don't get me wrong. But it was too much for such small volume.

The kind of modifications they needed to be doing all along were these GT-Rspec's. Something that truly makes the car sporty.

HSV provided what the buying public wanted. - Garish, brash, in yer face boganista limo's.

FPV tried hard with a reserved styled car. But only the E variants were truly good-looking, because it was more inline with Ford's direction. And this is why ultimately, I think Ford will have some better success with whatever direction they take FPV now, as they are more in touch with the donor vehicle.

Don't anyone lose their cool though. Just my opinion.

1st Gen R Spec was released on GT40 and Cobra. Revalved Delphi shocks and a nice badge on the boot. The car was faster around a track and more predictable when pushed hard. No one gave a toss and the punters were whingeing about lack of rear brembos and the engine's inability to twist the chassis and break an engine mount when you idle off from the lights.

The message has been loud and clear all along from the get go......FPV needed to build a monster despite the chassis shortcomings. They have delivered in spades. Hindsight is a wonderful thing......when FG is gone and we all look back at this very interesting time....we'll be reminiscing about the heydays of 2012 -14 when FPV / Ford built monster 4 door sedans capable of blistering performance at attainable prices. This is the second golden era I'm living through now.....I'm a child of the 70's where Ford V8's ruled the roads and owning one was a privilege. I used to crave looking at those mythical V8 beasts, and would wonder why it would be like to drive one. That time has arrived again....I own and drive a BFGT.....but I still look around with childlike curiosity again whenever I see the S/C 5.0 on the roads.

It's time to sit back, chill out and relax. The Ford V8 is once again the pinnacle of BOGAN lust and pride, my childlike curiosity has returned.......and this time .......I'm old enough to drive one if I'm lucky enough. The emotions are sometimes enough to overcome the shortcomings. In this case, I think they are.......most will never track their FPV's so 10 tenths is a moot point. Many will however prowl the streets or cruise with the knowledge that their pride and joy is once again King of the Road.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

We don't know that. They could have extracted similar power from Coyote naturally aspirated.

As long as Ford has money to spend on the FPV range, I think we will see it spent where needed. It'll be cheaper for them now that they'll be assembled on the line.

Similar power to what? NA wouldn't touch the torque delivery of Miami or Condor and would've cost them a similar amount anyway. They can't just give the car a tune and a loud exhaust like the aftermarket can.

[pottery beige]

old times all over again.. embrace them whilst you can.. fat lady just may be warming up in the corner....



oh looky some knob ticked the box as close as he could colour / combo to 1973.. .

[irish2]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Similar power to what? NA wouldn't touch the torque delivery of Miami or Condor and would've cost them a similar amount anyway. They can't just give the car a tune and a loud exhaust like the aftermarket can.

Also wouldn't get near the power with a 6000 rev limit either.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Similar power to what? NA wouldn't touch the torque delivery of Miami or Condor and would've cost them a similar amount anyway. They can't just give the car a tune and a loud exhaust like the aftermarket can.

You can rest assured that Ford and Prodrive looked at the replacement for the Boss 5.4 from every angle,
the idea being to use as many OEM components as possible to bring down the price to allow forced induction.

Makes me wonder how things would have worked out if Prodrive had gone DOHC S/C 4.6 Boss for BA....
But that was a different time and place and as we know the 5.4 decision was forced on them when
Ford NA quite unexpectedly stopped using the 5.0 Windsor in RWD vehicles like Mustang and F Truck.

Prodrive took a shot, gave FPV a great engine that lives on after November for those who want something special..

[SteveJH]

I've always wondered why FPV went for the Iron blocked 5.4 rather then the Aluminium blocked 5.4.....

Was the Aluminium block that much more expensive that it wasnt viable?

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Makes me wonder how things would have worked out if Prodrive had gone DOHC S/C 4.6 Boss for BA....
But that was a different time and place and as we know the 5.4 decision was forced on them when
Ford NA quite unexpectedly stopped using the 5.0 Windsor in RWD vehicles like Mustang and F Truck.

Huh? 5.0L Windsor was discontinued in the Mustang in 1996, and the 4.6 was actually intended to go in at the start of the SN95 model (1994)
Also the 4.6 first turned up in the 1991 Lincoln Town Car
The writing was on the wall for the 5.0L long before the BA.
Ford Oz had plenty of time to design the AU to suit the 4.6L.
Granted the 2valve 4.6L wasnt any more powerful than the Windsor, but you would have thought the XR8 might have gotten the 4valve? Or perhaps the FTE models.
By the time of the BA, Ford could have used the Supercharged 4.6L, rather than the truck 5.4.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

I've always wondered why FPV went for the Iron blocked 5.4 rather then the Aluminium blocked 5.4.....

Was the Aluminium block that much more expensive that it wasnt viable?

The dry dumped block that went into the GT was only seen as a rush job in 2003 for the centenary celebrations. They didn't do a wet sump until the 2013 GT500.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

If that revenue doesn't generate profit then whats the point. Its useless.

Its a simple fact that no manufacturer will spend half a billion dollars creating a new car at Falcons price point for it only to sell 1000 or so a month. Its 100% unfeasible, unless by some miracle they have some sort of export plan for it, or they switch to a global model for production.

The original plan for FG to be sustainable with the money spent on it was 3500 a month. Its light years from that now.

I've been thinking about the bold part & 3500 might have been the number at the start of FG's life (2008), however so much has changed since then. I assume Ford would still be amortizing there way through the original FG R&D money spent with current sales (amortizing would stop at the end of FG's life span). Ford told us a few months back that things where sustainable for now. So I wonder with all the changes & the product mix changes (noted they have keep XR6's at 37K for the manual all year), maybe the magic number is allot less than the original plan from 2008? I'm not trying to paint a roses picture because I think we'll be very very lucky to get another Falcon, but just trying to point out there still might be so hope!!

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

I've always wondered why FPV went for the Iron blocked 5.4 rather then the Aluminium blocked 5.4.....

Was the Aluminium block that much more expensive that it wasnt viable?

There was no mass production 5.4 alloy block available until the GT500 got it a year or 2 ago. The Ford GT alloy block was only built in small numbers and only over a very short time frame. Wasn't wet sump either.

It wasn't an option.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Huh? 5.0L Windsor was discontinued in the Mustang in 1996, and the 4.6 was actually intended to go in at the start of the SN95 model (1994)
.

Our versions were based on a mix of parts from F Truck and Explorer, I believe cast in Mexico..
I included Mustang for the additional parts but really the building blocks were the Front sump version.
We're getting away from topic here, the thing was that Ford had to shift quick to arrange a suitable
replacement for the 5.0 Windsor, they looked at everything and then went for 5.4 4V...

[Bossxr8]

Original plan was a hotter version of the 5.4 3V from the F series, but it couldn't be made to reach their power targets. I saw them testing one on a dyno back in 2001?

They could get power up to XR8 levels (they wanted 250kw) but struggled to get close to 290 for GT.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Original plan was a hotter version of the 5.4 3V from the F series, but it couldn't be made to reach their power targets. I saw them testing one on a dyno back in 2001?

They could get power up to XR8 levels (they wanted 250kw) but struggled to get close to 290 for GT.

What it really needed was the supercharger but that threw the costs out the window in 2001.

IIRC, Euro 3 started around the time BA came in so maybe more complication there with forced induction..

[Bossxr8]

I think Euro 3 was introduced with BF. They definately played with supercharged 5.4's, they were rumoured to be ready to go, but for whatever reason they never made it to market.

They definately had a number of them on the dyno.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I've been thinking about the bold part & 3500 might have been the number at the start of FG's life (2008), however so much has changed since then. I assume Ford would still be amortizing there way through the original FG R&D money spent with current sales (amortizing would stop at the end of FG's life span). Ford told us a few months back that things where sustainable for now. So I wonder with all the changes & the product mix changes (noted they have keep XR6's at 37K for the manual all year), maybe the magic number is allot less than the original plan from 2008? I'm not trying to paint a roses picture because I think we'll be very very lucky to get another Falcon, but just trying to point out there still might be so hope!!

Not sure on this but a possible scenario could be:
1) when new models are released like SZ and FGII, those costs would present immediately as internal financing
2) any previous arrears on FG and SYII might or would have to be written down as part of that financial reporting.
3) any large Capital expenditure on R & D normally underpinned by budgeted sales would also be impacted

[Buntz]

I wonder what will become of FPV variants if Ford can't even be bothered to advertise Falcon.

But if my theory about a global Falcon come 2014 is correct, then it should get better dollars thrown at it from HQ.

Ford probably think it wise to advertise right now, and just blitzkrieg with ads when the 2014 Falcon wears the Aston family grille. Probably advertise EcoBoost and EcoLPi, and make it seem like a whole new car.

[flappist]

Last warning.

Stop the bickering and stay on topic which is Ford taking over FPV.