Windsor vs Cleveland vs Boss

[XW_GS]

easy gittin pwer out of a cleve but a cleve headed windsor is also good

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by CATFORD

Ummm....they all have there good points....you cant beat BIG BLOCKS.....as for Clevo v's Windsor small blocks....sorry CLEVO boys...they died along time ago....for one reason or another....the WINDSOR mind you is still getting made today....from V8 SUPERCARS to NASCAR....the WINDSOR is a champion and only stubborn CLEVO supporters will disagree...as for the BOSS 260/290...it should have stayed in a truck.....thats what it was designed for and thats where it should have stayed....WELL there all Fords...and they all make that great sound and good grunt with a bit of cash thrown at them..... : "BRING IT ON HOLDEN"

Actually the Cleveland was the first small block to take on the big blocks in Grand National and I think that is saying something about the Cleveland.

[james22]

Originally Posted by ratter

yeah I guess my 11.7 unopened boss proves that they are no good in passenger cars :

ppl braggin, unopened all the time, bloody hell
. Thats all you hear nowdays blah blah time UN-OPENED
WGA S!!!

[ratter]

Originally Posted by james22

ppl braggin, unopened all the time, bloody hell
. Thats all you hear nowdays blah blah time UN-OPENED
WGA S!!!

and you have done what???

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by ratter

and you have done what???

I guess what they are saying is rod has opened up block... YET !!!

[blackxt]

boss motors rule if u r talking about the windsor bottom end with clevo heads nuthing better than a v8 at 9,000 rpm sound great and so much power can be had out of them i think thay r the best motors ever but the price of them can get a bit much

[ratter]

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

I guess what they are saying is rod has opened up block... YET !!!

????:

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by ratter

????:

Not opened ... Yet... With blower or N20 ...Mod motor...

[ratter]

3 Boss motors have gone into the 11's with no forced assistance so far, 2 have been opened and 1 is still unopened :

[janek]

Originally Posted by XDaaron

Cleveland, nothing beats it.

Amen.

Simple power, thats it. My 130 odd kw XC 351 ****ess all over my au. But i like driving the au so much more... mo rust lol.

but engines... Clevo for sure

[sam12h]

As said, Cleveland by far sounds the best. Awesome power potential for straight line work too. If I were into drag racing, then I'd definately vote for the Clevo.

But (you wanted a reason), since I'm into hill climbs & circuit racing, I will vote Windsor. The picture below sums it up really. The modular's are even heavier than the Clevo. Weight kills handling, & the 8.2" windsor small block is the lightest of the lot.

It's not like they haven't had a successful history with victories at Le Mans in the GT40 mk1 (after the big blocks were banned), Trans Am with the real BOSS 302, & even the V8 supercars use what is fundamentally a modern incarnation of a BOSS 302 (4 bolt sportsman 8.2" block with Yates canted valve Cleveland style heads). Plenty of power potential for the job (with Cleveland or Windsor heads) plus the option of stroking, which only adds a small amount of weight.

[Abacus]

Originally Posted by sam12h

The picture below sums it up really. The modular's are even heavier than the Clevo. Weight kills handling, & the 8.2" windsor small block is the lightest of the lot.

Tells 1,000 words.

[Envi XR8]

I voted for the Clevo. I spent many years working with both standard and performance engine parts, dealing with many engine builders and the Clevo produced the easiest bang for buck for building engines from off the shelf engine parts, that are available for a reasonable cost. _2:
The windsor has the advantage of the SVO/motorsport parts catalogue, and the support of the US market although these are, or were at the time VERY expensive. These do offer some awesome combinations if you do not have a small budget.
To add to the indecision I had finally picking one, I own an XR8 with a 260 Boss, and it is a lovely piece of engine. Once the revs are over about 3000, it gets a real snort when it breathes, even in stock form, and I have dished it out to a couple of ricer and holdent wannabe's who thought they had bullets :
Today though, very little of the weaknesses in any of these 3 engines can not be overcome with quality aftermarket performance parts, and changes that have become proven combinations. Modern parts development and availabilty i.e; alloy clevo heads, 420 windsor stroker kits etc seemed to have breathed new life and direction into how these engines are built and used. :sm_headba :eclipsee_ :

End of the day, they all have 8 cylinders in a V-formation, with the letters F.O.R.D on them, so I like them all really. my 2c worth...

Cheers Envi

[EB 2 XR8]

windsor coz i have 1

[Falcon Coupe]

Dandy Engines just dynoed their world small block 427 Cleveland headed stroker, well over 700hp with off the shelf parts and stock heads, the aftermarket small blocks adding cubes will be the way of the future for us oldschoolers. Thread here:

[ReVd_uP]

I voted windsor, im sick of seeing Boss260s pulled apart at work for tensioners, head repairs/replacements for low comp on #8, oil pumps....theyre just a plain ***** of a thing to work on,... gotta LOVE driving them tho.... hmmm maybe i should drop in a vote for the Boss too.... haha

[Wally]

I seem to recall that the Boss302 was the invention of an ex GM bloke, Larry someone and his entourage of ex GM engineers?

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by ReVd_uP

I voted windsor, im sick of seeing Boss260s pulled apart at work for tensioners, head repairs/replacements for low comp on #8, oil pumps....theyre just a plain ***** of a thing to work on,... gotta LOVE driving them tho.... hmmm maybe i should drop in a vote for the Boss too.... haha

Fair call they can have more than there fair share of common faults, so far mines been good. (Touches wood..)

[protd]

Originally Posted by Wally

I seem to recall that the Boss302 was the invention of an ex GM bloke, Larry someone and his entourage of ex GM engineers?

meaning? so he took some parts ford designed and put them together.. he never put clevo heads on a Chev or vice versa.. i think we've all had other jobs before, where did this guy work before gm..

[Wally]

I'm just going back in the dark mist of my youth. There was some talk that the clevo was inspired by the GM designs....nothing sinister. It was the Oz engineers/technicians who developed the heads into something to rant about.

[SilverMustang]

I miss my Clevo...nothing beats this engine for sound.....and the power outputs can be excellent

the boss is a close second although I think there would be a question mark over it longevity

[rag top]

Originally Posted by Wally

I seem to recall that the Boss302 was the invention of an ex GM bloke, Larry someone and his entourage of ex GM engineers?

Larry Shinoda was a designer. The first manufacturere he worked for was ford in 1955, then moved on to work at a number of manufacturers, including GM. He was a designer, and designed the Boss 302, and a number of other cars, including 63-67 corvette.

Further info:
http://www.pasadena.edu/about/histor...da/shinoda.cfm
http://www.idavette.net/HistFact/shinoda.htm

[Red04VXE]

Car olds had when i was born, XA Falcon 500 302 4spd, Then XC GXL 302, First Car Driven - XD 302 4spd at 11yo, First car brought ZF Fairlane 351 C4 9", at 15yo, First car on Road XA GT Coupe at 18yo

[Jondalar]

My limited experience: 1966 Mustang 289 Cleveland with Holley 500 carbie, sounded great, went fast but would often stall at traffic lights and take 5 min to restart.

2006 XR8 with BOSS 5.4, sounds even better and never stalls, makes way more power. BOSS gets my vote.

[JAYBA]

i currently own all three, an el 5.0 with all the bolt ons, an esp with 357ci clevo, and ba xr8 aka boss, clevo gets my vote for bang for buck....and engine note and widest power band, boss is a good motor but not a large enough power band, the windsor in 302 form is very torquey but i believe the heads let it down as it runs out of breath very fast,

most fun of the three would have to be the clevo followed by the boss...

all the engines have mods most modded being the clevo...

thats my opinion in a nutshell

Jay

[protd]

Originally Posted by Jondalar

My limited experience: 1966 Mustang 289 Cleveland with Holley 500 carbie, sounded great, went fast but would often stall at traffic lights and take 5 min to restart.

2006 XR8 with BOSS 5.4, sounds even better and never stalls, makes way more power. BOSS gets my vote.

that'd be a 289 windsor mate not the mighty cleveland

[Sledgehammer]

Originally Posted by Gammaboy

Boss 302 <= Won 1970 TransAm championship. Won in the Hands of Moffat. Real Performance... fastest 302 there was in 1969 and 1970.
Boss 429 <= The beastiest Production motor Ford ever put in a car (1969/1970)
Boss 351 <= The fastest small block Ford ever produced. (Its a 4 bolt Clevo, not a windsor block btw, 1971/1972)
Boss 260/290 <= Spot the odd one out?

Sorry, a BOSS 302 is officially a Windsor

[Barry_v]

the odd one out is the boss 302 because it doesnt weigh a metric arseload ;)

[Sledgehammer]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

: it doesnt really matter when they were fitted to cars in Australia, the fact remains they were manufactured and assembled ready for fitment in the states in 1969.

4Vman, This is not correct, the first casting of a 351C block was in 1970 casting number was DOAE if you can find another casting number for a 1969 Cleveland block then please let us know what it is. (The 4V heads were cast in 69 for fitment to the Boss 302). Let me know the casting number and I can verify........

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Sledgehammer

4Vman, This is not correct, the first casting of a 351C block was in 1970 casting number was DOAE if you can find another casting number for a 1969 Cleveland block then please let us know what it is. (The 4V heads were cast in 69 for fitment to the Boss 302). Let me know the casting number and I can verify........

Sorry mate but it is correct, I was working on a D block cleveland today which was cast in nov 1969 (21L9 casting date), but the part revision code is as you say D0AE.
How on earth could the Clevelands fitted to the Feburary 1970 GT falcons have been designed, cast, assembled and shipped to Australia in 4 weeks??
There were quite a few batches of Clevelands cast in 1969, then stockpiled for fitment in 1970, ive seen cleveland blocks cast as early as july 1969.