All things Solar (merged threads)

[Spinner77]

Followers of this thread might be interested in knowing that the printed June issue of Choice magazine carries an article on payback periods for solar.

On account of copyright, I have to be careful. A lot of public libraries subscribe to Choice, so you can research the article there if you are interested.

But it looks as if they have had some serious modelling done for a 2.0kW system exporting 30 per cent and 50 per cent respectively. I say it is serious because they seem to have taken most of the things into consideration that you might expect from a professional accountant. That includes the time value of money (discount rate), degradation of the system, increases in the cost of electricity (assumed to be 0.25%) etc. There are said to be 15 variables in all.

Choice does not provide numbers on the payback period, but gives readers a bar chart. The winner looks to me to be the NT, where the payback time is 4 years (for exporting either 30 or 50 per cent). The longest seems to be Victoria: payback looks like up to 10 years (50 per cent export) and about 6-8 years (30 per cent export). In NSW the maximum payback period appears to be around 9 years (50 per cent), and about 6-7 years (30 per cent). SA is a maximum of just under 8 years (50), and about 6-7 (30).

The message I get from the article is to minimise your export to the grid. The differences between the 30 and 50 per cent export scenarios are significant (except in the NT, and - wouldn't you know it? - the ACT where the payback periods do not seem affected by the power exported). Accordingly, the article seems to favour smaller systems.

My personal reaction is that one criticism of the analysis could be its very conservative assumption on increases in the price of electricity.

[EgoFG]

Hey a QQ

I am moving house, and will monitor my usage there and choose a system (Prolly 3-4kw) and install in the next 18 months.

Can I get my Solar 3ph Meter installed at build time, and save some coin (even though I do not do the solar install yet ??)

[xisled]

Originally Posted by Matty4

Having my 5kw system installed as I type this.
Will also make enquiries with SP Ausnet as to the costs involved in going to 3 phase at my place for future upgrades.

You will need 2 truck appointments, cost around $600, plus the cost of your REC doing any work needed.

That would be my guess.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

Hey a QQ

I am moving house, and will monitor my usage there and choose a system (Prolly 3-4kw) and install in the next 18 months.

Can I get my Solar 3ph Meter installed at build time, and save some coin (even though I do not do the solar install yet ??)

Depends on your state, in Victoria you can get the Meyer but it will need to be reprogrammed at the time your solar system is installed. This will still cost you. In Vic nothing you can do to get around the cost.

[Rastus]

My 3.99kW system just had it's first birthday. Yay!
It's generated 5686 Kwh for the year, and I'm exporting an average of 60.2%.
Very happy, considering I live in Sunny Ballarat

[supershifty]

Just got my letter from AGL re the price increases from July 1st. Looks like they're bringing QLD in line with our brothers down south:

Tariff 11: Up from 26c to 30c /kW
Supply: Up from 30c to 57c /day

Maybe fair enough on the tariff increase (not saying that because I've got solar) but near doubling the supply charge as well - for christs sake, that's gouging at the extreme.

Thieving bastards.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by supershifty

Just got my letter from AGL re the price increases from July 1st. Looks like they're bringing QLD in line with our brothers down south:

Tariff 11: Up from 26c to 30c /kW
Supply: Up from 30c to 57c /day

Maybe fair enough on the tariff increase (not saying that because I've got solar) but near doubling the supply charge as well - for christs sake, that's gouging at the extreme.

Thieving bastards.

Wow your supply charge is still half that of Victoria.

I pay around $1.05 after GST per day about and about the same per Kwh

What you have to remember about Queensland rates, was that the Gov. put a freeze on the rates last year. So no price increase. So basically this price increase you are seeing is 2 years worth of rate increase in 1 rate increase. If Queensland had a price increase last year, the increase this year would not have looked so massive.

[sgt_doofey]

5 days time sees the 1st anniversary of our 1.5kW system being installed.
In that time, we've generated 2430kW/h, an average of 6.64kW/h per day averaged out over the whole year. Not bad I reckon! Glad we put it up now.

[comagutsa]

WA electricity prices are going up again from 22.8c to over 25c per unit i see
they didnt say if the 8.4c they buy solar at will be going up but i would say no it wont :(

but now my solar is working correctly i have been getting just under 13kw/h a day for this time of year (12.94 yesterday and a 3kw system) compared with 9.something this time last year when they forgot to hook up 1 panel

[sgt_doofey]

Originally Posted by comagutsa

WA electricity prices are going up again from 22.8c to over 25c per unit i see

Sorry, but I gotta laugh at that, when here in SA, the cheapest rate for kW/h starts at around 32c and the highest is over 40c. But, we do get 25c per unit of solar fed back in to the grid, for now.

[buggerlugs]

Originally Posted by Rastus

My 3.99kW system just had it's first birthday. Yay!
It's generated 5686 Kwh for the year, and I'm exporting an average of 60.2%.
Very happy, considering I live in Sunny Ballarat

So, in "Sunny" Ballarat, what was your average bill before solar, and what is it now ? The inlaws live just outside Ballarat and have only recently had solar fitted............

[Rastus]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

So, in "Sunny" Ballarat, what was your average bill before solar, and what is it now ? The inlaws live just outside Ballarat and have only recently had solar fitted............

I just went and asked the Minister of War & Finance, and she tells me our bills were ranging from $400-$600 a quarter, with the highest being approx $700.
I know we based our daily usage at time of specc'ing up our system at about 16Kwh/day. While I went and put a few led globes in and was a little bit more aware of our power use since the solar install, I reckon we're trending more in our usage again with the kids and their electronics usage (2 teenage girls/pre-teen boy)
At present we're in credit as you might see in my previous posts, and we should stay that way. My Spring & Summer bills should be in credit by a good amount, Autumn pretty much @zero and my winter (Mid May-Mid August) I'm guessing will be in the negative by a bit. (TFIT@.33c) I'll know for sure at the end of August.
The energy retailers will slowly screw us over though, with the daily supply charge going up & up, see xisled's post @ ~$1.00 day, as well as peak supply rates guaranteed to overtake my feed in tariff. I'm glad more than 1/2 of our usage is off-peak.

[buggerlugs]

I've been told to wash the solar panels every 3-4 months with fresh water. Anyone else heard of that ?

[sgt_doofey]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

I've been told to wash the solar panels every 3-4 months with fresh water. Anyone else heard of that ?

Mine are getting a wash with fresh water today! It's falling from the sky, for free!
But yes, others in this thread have mentioned that you would see a slight improvement on the amount of power generated should you wash your panels on a regular basis.

[Rastus]

Yeah, if it hasn't rained for a while & they're looking a little dusty, a spray with the hose can't hurt. And if you've got stubborn stuff like sap, pollen or bird crap even a squeegee would be good.
I bought a squeegee head from Bunnings and attached it to an Aldi extendable handle. Works a treat after a good spray from the hose. You wouldn't want to use anything harsh though which could scratch the panels.

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

I've been told to wash the solar panels every 3-4 months with fresh water. Anyone else heard of that ?

if they are extremely dirty yes, otherwise the improvement is really not all that noticeable.

[prydey]

and if you do decide to give them a clean, make sure they aren't hot.

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by Spinner77

Followers of this thread might be interested in knowing that the printed June issue of Choice magazine carries an article on payback periods for solar.

On account of copyright, I have to be careful. A lot of public libraries subscribe to Choice, so you can research the article there if you are interested.

But it looks as if they have had some serious modelling done for a 2.0kW system exporting 30 per cent and 50 per cent respectively. I say it is serious because they seem to have taken most of the things into consideration that you might expect from a professional accountant. That includes the time value of money (discount rate), degradation of the system, increases in the cost of electricity (assumed to be 0.25%) etc. There are said to be 15 variables in all.

Choice does not provide numbers on the payback period, but gives readers a bar chart. The winner looks to me to be the NT, where the payback time is 4 years (for exporting either 30 or 50 per cent). The longest seems to be Victoria: payback looks like up to 10 years (50 per cent export) and about 6-8 years (30 per cent export). In NSW the maximum payback period appears to be around 9 years (50 per cent), and about 6-7 years (30 per cent). SA is a maximum of just under 8 years (50), and about 6-7 (30).

The message I get from the article is to minimise your export to the grid. The differences between the 30 and 50 per cent export scenarios are significant (except in the NT, and - wouldn't you know it? - the ACT where the payback periods do not seem affected by the power exported). Accordingly, the article seems to favour smaller systems.

My personal reaction is that one criticism of the analysis could be its very conservative assumption on increases in the price of electricity.

I am aware of this, and other article's, and have studied it intensely,whilst I attribute a lot of knowledge to choice and its contributors I must say i find a lot of "flaws" in the calculations.

I am pushing my second year with solar now, I have also been involved with a large number of installs and have built up a substantial knowledge base that can be backed up with hard figures. my own and many others

personally, my outcome has been fantastic.....payback period is of no real consequence to me, solar is not to be looked at as a "short term investment"

there are a lot of variables when taking solar into account.

[buggerlugs]

Originally Posted by prydey

and if you do decide to give them a clean, make sure they aren't hot.

No chance of that up here in the last 6 months............

[davenl5l]

well after first full year of solar (geez that went quick ) saved $1,560 and have $338.01 in credit gotta say very happy with that.solar is good for my wallet & the environment talk about a win,win

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by davenl5l

well after first full year of solar (geez that went quick ) saved $1,560 and have $338.01 in credit gotta say very happy with that.solar is good for my wallet & the environment talk about a win,win

very similar to our experience......well done.

just got a letter from Lumo to say that the price of power is to go up by 4% as well as supply charge.

I really cant see where the "contract" part of my "contract" is when they have broken it twice within a very short space in time.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

very similar to our experience......well done.

just got a letter from Lumo to say that the price of power is to go up by 4% as well as supply charge.

I really cant see where the "contract" part of my "contract" is when they have broken it twice within a very short space in time.

Your contract will have a clause to say they can raise the price with x days notice, Also it will say they can charge you extra for any necessary charges.

[DJR MAN]

I'll apologise now if this has been answered already.

Do you actually ever receive solar credits in the hand? When do they pay up, especially since you have to declare it as income at tax time?
I'm with Origin energy in Brisbane BTW.

[supershifty]

Originally Posted by DJR MAN

I'll apologise now if this has been answered already.

Do you actually ever receive solar credits in the hand? When do they pay up, especially since you have to declare it as income at tax time?
I'm with Origin energy in Brisbane BTW.

I'm in Brisbane, but with AGL. I originally waited for the full twelve months to get my credits back, I now get them quarterly after my bill comes in. All I have to do is ring them up (accounts section) and ask for my credit to either be direct deposited into my bank account, or they will mail a cheque. Usually this takes 5 working days.

Cheers!

[Muzzle]

Solar PV panels waste of money in WA. Govt cut rebates. Got a 1 kw system and is a waste of time better to get a stand alone system on batteries if you are that keen on solar. Solar hot water system is great though always have hot water even in winter, the booster will only come on when the water drops below a certain temp. If you have a big family get more storage.
Ours was installed when the house was built in 1985 and is still going strong.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Muzzle

Solar PV panels waste of money in WA. Govt cut rebates. Got a 1 kw system and is a waste of time better to get a stand alone system on batteries if you are that keen on solar. Solar hot water system is great though always have hot water even in winter, the booster will only come on when the water drops below a certain temp. If you have a big family get more storage.
Ours was installed when the house was built in 1985 and is still going strong.

no offense, but a 1kw system wouldn't do much for a lot of families regardless of rebates.

solar can still reduce your bill if you do your sums and work out the right size system for you. lack of rebate means the payback period is greatly increased but no one knows what the future holds as far as electricity pricing goes either.

the unfortunate thing with the solar scheme is too many people saw it as a money making exercise.

it should always have been set up as a kwh credit system rather than a money system. if you feed 100kwh back to the grid, you get 100kwh credit. a 'one for one' type system.

all too late now. all states will be rebate free in the next 12 months i'm tipping.

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by Muzzle

Solar PV panels waste of money in WA. Govt cut rebates. Got a 1 kw system and is a waste of time better to get a stand alone system on batteries if you are that keen on solar.

even a system as small as 1 kilowatt will reduce usage in the home and therefore the account by a reasonable amount. solar is never a waste of money,

Originally Posted by DJR MAN

I'll apologise now if this has been answered already.

Do you actually ever receive solar credits in the hand? When do they pay up, especially since you have to declare it as income at tax time?
I'm with Origin energy in Brisbane BTW.

if you have a credit and wish to claim it (cash it in) ring your supplier and tell them so, normally the ammo8int will be credited to your bank account within a day or so.

unless you notify them that you wish to claim your credits it will remain as a credit on your account indefinitely.

[mik]

We have a fairly decent power usage each week, as being pensioners and indoors for a lot of the time, our last power bill from agl was from memory over $800.00, and over a thousand(cough) before a winter time concession(did someone say thieving bastards? ) it seems not to many years ago we were paying 250/300 max.
Just wondering has anybody had a go at a do it yourself off the grid system ?

[poppa smurf]

working on one now Mik, not mine though.

all parts sourced through ebay or online to try to keep the cost down just as an experiment. (pensioners). I'd like to go stand alone myself but the council is a bit funny and I will still be paying for "supply"

$1,000 for 3 months is a bit painful mate.......ours used to be around $250 a quarter then it shot up to over $600.

[mik]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

working on one now Mik, not mine though.

all parts sourced through ebay or online to try to keep the cost down just as an experiment. (pensioners). I'd like to go stand alone myself but the council is a bit funny and I will still be paying for "supply"

$1,000 for 3 months is a bit painful mate.......ours used to be around $250 a quarter then it shot up to over $600.

good onya Poppa and good luck with it, let us know how you go mate.
yeah cost is getting outta hand , i have thought about it, we have a fairly decent size garage with a partitioned off tool room, only guessing, i'd say it's 4m wide.....maybe a little more roof area with over hang and about 9 or 10 m long, and right behind it is a galvanized shed about 4m L x 2m W with 7 foot high roof,
it would make an ideal battery room i think, just needs about 16 years of accumulated crap that will probably never get used disposed of , a good excuse to have a spring clean(throw some **** out).