All things Solar (merged threads)

[SPArKy_Dave]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

Well..............................It wasn't the Invertor. On the top row of the panels the fuse had blown. Didn't even know they had fuses , so we were only getting credits for the bottom row since February. Will have to start taking a bit of notice of the meter from now on..........

Don't tell me they put string isolation fuses on a residential solar job?
What panels have you got?
There should be no need for fuses in a nicely designed 5kw installation.

You'll forever have issues with them if they're up on the roof. For the simple fact, that fuses de-rate with ambient heat - hence they blow easier.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Hey guys,

I'm thinking about kicking off my investigation of a solar install again. I say again, because I looked into it last year (as some of you may recall) and simply got overwhelmed with all of the combinations and permutations available.

One of the main things that stood out for me was the best mounting location for whatever system I decided upon. Based upon our usage profile (daughter at school all days of the week, plus wife at work 3 days during the week, therefore mornings and evenings would be our peak usage times per weekday) we had one installer (of the 3 I got quotes from) recommend that we install the panels on the west facing roof as opposed to the other two installers recommending the north face.

The west face seemed to make sense, but that roof face is visible directly from the road front and would not be too aesthetically appealing.

Here's our house location, with north being directly to the top of the photo as seen:



So, what are people's thoughts on this? If I am to use the system to offset our usage rather than to generate an income by exporting unused generation to the grid, then the west face makes sense, but I'm not really sure as to how much difference the two mounting locations would make in practical terms.

I'd appreciate any input offered.

Craig H

[poppa smurf]

North would be ideal as it catches both morning and afternoon sun.

Personally I don't like to see the panels on the front roof of the house, but that's just me.

Size of system and consequential output to be purchased needs a lot more detailed info than is given, myself I would go with the largest I could get on there with a view of going "off grid" at some later stage as power prices become unaffordable to most.

[comagutsa]

yeah im with smurf on that ..go north , i got a system 3kw that was as big as i could afford at the time even though they said we only need a 1.5kw system .. if i had a 5kw system i would be happier and just hoping going off grid comes sooner than later haha

[Rompers]

I have a 5kW system (3kW north and 2kW west) and my bills are much more pleasant. Is a net feed system so get bugger all for what I push back, but covers the pool pump and chlorinator even in winter so I'm happy.

Does the forum have a team on PVoutput.org?

[poppa smurf]

I'm not a member of PVoutput.org, ...here is the only place I frequent, time is not my friend.

a solar array in todays economic climate should be viewed as an account minimiser not something that will make money.

Thousands of folks have had their power shut off from these thieving power moguls, time for some pollie to actually gain a bit of intestinal fortitude and kick the profit takers out of all essential services.

Bloody immoral and ridiculous the way it is now.

[Rompers]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

I'm not a member of PVoutput.org, ...here is the only place I frequent, time is not my friend.

a solar array in todays economic climate should be viewed as an account minimiser not something that will make money.

Thousands of folks have had their power shut off from these thieving power moguls, time for some pollie to actually gain a bit of intestinal fortitude and kick the profit takers out of all essential services.

Bloody immoral and ridiculous the way it is now.

I wonder if there would be interest in having a team there, would all be largely automated if setup.

Yes, definitely agree that it is an expense minimiser, I have too many toys and probably a fridge or 2 more than I need.

Power prices are pretty steep and when overseas people I chat with are in shock when we tell them how much we pay.

Heaven help us if they privatise them fully.

[CONGO MILLENNIUM]

G'day to all, I have a SMA mini central 8000 TL inverter and i am thinking of using a sunny beam to monitor our PV system. Does anyone know how to find out if my inverter has Bluetooth ? Has anyone have this monitor ?
Any advice or help please.

[last fairlane]

Hi all
I just read a lot of the replies and advice on here not the whole 2000 of course
Im still trying to figure out what I need to negate my power bill
I checked my bill and my average daily KWH is 18 and my last bill was $400
there is just the two of us no heater no air conditioner
but all electric house fridge washer freezer hot water and so on
and since I had a heart attack and had a pacemaker implanted
there is no more welding so I sold that
with the solar inverters I think the numbers mean if I got a 2KWH inverter
do I multiply that by about 10 hours to give me 20 KWH
or does it work different to that
could I use a 2.5KWH or do I need a 5 KWH to run the house
here in Queensland we had a 44 cent feed in tariff but Campbell can do
cut that back to 8 cents so just looking at cutting out my power bill
thanks John

[prydey]

many people i know that were 'pro solar' have now deemed it almost a waste of time due to the deletion of the feed in tariff, and the way the scheme has been handled.

without knowing all your details etc, i would say with a 8c FIT it would be virtually impossible to wipe out your bill totally. it would mean you would have to feed back in to the grid at least triple the amount that you are buying from the grid, just to break even.

some say now the best practice is to just go with a small system that will cover your daytime usage. that way, you are mostly using your own power during the day, and only buying off the grid in poor weather and night time.

i'm sure poppa or sparky dave can chime in with some more accurate industry info.

[poppa smurf]

Hmmm! 0.08c per kilowatt returned to the grid, generous lot aren't they!!

if you go by this map it will give you your nominal average amount of sunlight hours http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/averag...ifs/sunann.png

however if you choose a system that perports to put out, lets say 5 kilowatt you must realise it will never put out 5 kilowatt!.......confused, well join the club, this figure of 5 kilowatts are only ever achieved under controlled laboratory conditions.

best you can ask for is 80% average of the 5 kilowatts or an output of about 4 kilowatt (rubbery figures), to achieve the original 5 kilowatt you would need probably a 6 kilowatt or better system.

the inverter is not the most important part of the system, you could have a 5 kilowatt inverter but only have a 3 kilowatt array, the array is the important bit.

to cover your 18 kilowatt per day usage you would need around a 3 kilowatt system (once again rubbery figures as I don't know where you live exactly) taking into account the percentage of production and not the initial stated output.

of course this is assuming you wish to go "off grid".......if not then you would need a huge system @ 8c per kilowatt.

this is not taking into account your FIT, nor the cost of supply, these figures are only a "starting" point for you to consider.

congo I think it has bluetooth but just have a look in here to make sure....... http://www.radiustech.com.au/assets/...-ben101210.pdf

[Rompers]

My system was spec'd to cover roughly my pool equipment plus household load in winter. Yes, the 8c/kWh is crap, good luck to those that are getting the good price for the Gross FIT - NSW is all Net now.

As for systems ratings, the panels are rated at 25 degrees (that being the temperature of the panel, not ambient temperature) and they lose roughly 0.5 % efficiency for each degree the panel temp rises, equally they also gain efficiency as panel temperature gets lower.

[Rompers]

Originally Posted by last fairlane

...just looking at cutting out my power bill
thanks John

You won't do that unless you get a storage system as well (batteries) to provide you with power overnight, and then you would need a slightly larger system so that you provide yourself with power through the day AND charge the battery for overnight power usage.

You'll always have a bill while grid connected anyways, they still charge you to access the grid per day - System Access charge or something like that.

[jpblue1000]

Not sure how many of you have seen this but Australian Energy Market Commission (AEMC) has written a recommendation to tax Solar energy production. In effect their recommendation suggest solar feed in should be taxed higher as other energy users are subsidising the distribution network.
Look here for a petition to say no.
http://www.solarcitizens.org.au/suntax

There are several other petitions around too

JP

[Blue Ice]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Not sure how many of you have seen this but Australian Energy Market Commission (AEMC) has written a recommendation to tax Solar energy production. In effect their recommendation suggest solar feed in should be taxed higher as other energy users are subsidising the distribution network.
Look here for a petition to say no.
http://www.solarcitizens.org.au/suntax

There are several other petitions around too

JP

I've always wondered if the government/retail providers would try something like this, seems to be going along the same lines of the catchment fees charged for dams on acreage.

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Not sure how many of you have seen this but Australian Energy Market Commission (AEMC) has written a recommendation to tax Solar energy production. In effect their recommendation suggest solar feed in should be taxed higher as other energy users are subsidising the distribution network.
Look here for a petition to say no.
http://www.solarcitizens.org.au/suntax

There are several other petitions around too

JP

It's already taxed..... Any solar generated money's paid by the power company for excess generation (above a given amount) is to be reported as income at the end of the financial year.

Aged pension's are the only one's exempt. According to my tax man anyway.

I am leaving mine until I install the reverse cycle ducted air-con which will chew up my credit faster than a housewife at a shoe sale.

[Blue Ice]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

It's already taxed..... Any solar generated money's paid by the power company for excess generation (above a given amount) is to be reported as income at the end of the financial year.

Aged pension's are the only one's exempt. According to my tax man anyway.

I am leaving mine until I install the reverse cycle ducted air-con which will chew up my credit faster than a housewife at a shoe sale.

Really? I didn't know about that. I guess you'd have to be making a lot of excess generation and be receiving a substantial amount of credits to be stung at tax time.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

In effect their recommendation suggest solar feed in should be taxed higher as other energy users are subsidising the distribution network.

is that why solar customer tariffs are higher than non solar? solar customers are now providing a percentage of everyone's power, as most are feeding power back to the grid. what we use is irrelevent as we would have used it anyway. its just another one of the govt scheme's that was put in place without being thought through fully, just like rainwater tanks (notice how the only places left selling tanks are the ones that were always selling them), roof insulation, lpg rebates etc etc. the govt have these grand ideas but they fail to allow for the percentage of the population that are all about making a quick buck at other peoples expense. to encourage people to solar, the early adapters were given over 60c FIT. if you take in to account the cost of systems at the time, its all fairly relative, but there was the handful of rich people that abused it and used it as a money maker. that has now come back to bite the govt, and now everyone is suffering as a result, and FIT are being abolished.

if from the outset they used kw/h for credits instead of cash, it would have been much better. a 1 for 1 system. every kw you feed in to the grid, you get credited for.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

It's already taxed..... Any solar generated money's paid by the power company for excess generation (above a given amount) is to be reported as income at the end of the financial year.

Aged pension's are the only one's exempt. According to my tax man anyway.

I am leaving mine until I install the reverse cycle ducted air-con which will chew up my credit faster than a housewife at a shoe sale.

The way I read it is they are wanting those feeding into the system to star paying for the distribution lines as well. Im guessing a bill yearly based on what you fed back into the system irrespective of what you took out of it.

JP

[LG17]

Could be a last minute change on my install from the aurora inverter to the Kaco as the Kaco is ready to use with batteries and/or diesel and wind.

[Blue Ice]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

The way I read it is they are wanting those feeding into the system to star paying for the distribution lines as well. Im guessing a bill yearly based on what you fed back into the system irrespective of what you took out of it.

JP

I would have thought that you'd still be charged for having a connection and availability, which would be for the maintenance of assets and alike?

For example, having water/sewer lines run past your property, even though you may use 0% water/sewer outflow you still get charged for availability, if that makes sense.

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

The way I read it is they are wanting those feeding into the system to star paying for the distribution lines as well. Im guessing a bill yearly based on what you fed back into the system irrespective of what you took out of it.

JP

All sorts of stuff being talked about here, for instance if you have a battery bank to draw off at night then the power distribution mob will withdraw your FIT, or at least they are going to try to get that passed.

Bottom line we are a risk to their financial wellbeing, can't have that now can we.

big business, even overseas ones, must come first, profit at all costs, doesn't matter that thousands of us can't afford the "necessities" of life.

just be aware that if you do withdraw your "credit" it must be declared as income (unless you are on an age pension, no other pension has this benefit)......

My tax agent assured me that there a lot of folks that could be caught up in a "crackdown", which is bound to happen.

[Rompers]

OK - so they already charge us a "Supply Charge" which is our connection to the grid AND they charge use for our usage, so because I make my own power and reduce my draw on the grid along with giving them the extra that I can't use for a pittance, they want to charge me more as I affect their bottom line.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by Rompers

OK - so they already charge us a "Supply Charge" which is our connection to the grid AND they charge use for our usage, so because I make my own power and reduce my draw on the grid along with giving them the extra that I can't use for a pittance, they want to charge me more as I affect their bottom line.

yes!..

[ILLaViTaR]

There's no winning if you're a consumer. Solar nowadays is like Bunnings. Back in the day you'd built your own pickett fence because it was cheaper and you'd feel a sense of self reward, now prices are heavily calculated to target the enthusiast and there's no savings anymore it's the same scam as solar. The relative industry reaps the rewards that is intended for the consumer. They calculate the amount you would save into the initial cost making the savings very marginal for the consumer.


A better more drastic example is how all these LPG clowns years ago raised conversion prices from $1800 to $2600-$2900 for a mixer setup the moment the 2k rebate was implemented by the government. In WA the rebate was 3k and mixer setups were $3300-$3400 what a laugh that was to see it so obviously publicly unregulated, the situation's evident but of course ignored by the ACCC. The intent of this rebate was for families/consumer but yet again like with solar the relative industry dug their paws into what they had no right to dig them into. The consumer doesn't/hardly benefits as he's always the last on the list. That's how the system works. There's always a professional installer/middleman you require that calculates your savings for himself.

Unless you break the law and make these fools redundant the savings will always be marginal/negligible.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1-5-kVA-P...-/370940636877

This will give total independence from these ****** but I personally wouldn't run one of these as this is one of those illegal things that actually has a good reason reason to be illegal. It may burn down your house. So don't run one it's just an example.

Keep in mind if somethings too good to be true it's probably illegal as it gives the consumer too much freedom and opportunity (the law will generally state you have to pay some teamster with a "special license" the very amount that made the idea viable to you in the first place).

As far as getting even with the world without pushing ethical boundaries an idea is to not swipe every 3rd item through Woolworths self serve. Because you'll actually be helping the world by regulating these tyrants (hardly). I know a few people who work there and those monopolistic ****** have calculated the theft is more viable to deal with compared to the overhead expenses attending to those machines prompting unexpected weight every 2 seconds (not to mention the theft is probably a tax write off for them too). This could save you near a hundred a week compared to the $20 a week solar would (and that's after the outlay is paid off...). It's a shame stealing is stealing, despite woolworths being biggest thieves going round.

Or you grow less than 250grams off cannabis depending on what state your in. (Under 10 plants if you're in SA). This is how most of Gen Y have to fund a roof over their head. But if you sell it it's considered trafficking and an offence.

The aim is for concepts that aren't calculated/tainted by the industries to take a lifetime for the consumer to recover the initial outlay. As in this particular cannabis example there's no stupid professional around to dig his paws in. I've always wanted to sell fish I catch but there's a moral issue with quantity and it also requires a food license (that industry has already been tainted by the middleman/licenses are rare and cost 6 figures). I'm sure a lot of people would love their fish to be fresh/caught on the day but oh well.

Or you could just quit at yr 10 and inherit a successful family business and have everything spoonfed to you including all the respect and esteem you'll receive from society. You might even inherit an LPG or solar business and then you're well laughing.

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by Rompers

OK - so they already charge us a "Supply Charge" which is our connection to the grid AND they charge use for our usage, so because I make my own power and reduce my draw on the grid along with giving them the extra that I can't use for a pittance, they want to charge me more as I affect their bottom line.

Well, this is what the companies want, I can't see them being able to do that.

We, as consumer's, have already paid ten times over for the infrastructure so that point is moot.

We will pay a supply charge, which has already risen, nothing can be done about that.

As for a charge for using the line that's what supply charge is, can't be charged twice without me for one cutting crook,

I await a civil action to be brought against power companies, talked about for quite a while from some lawyers, which could be interesting.

[Rompers]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

I await a civil action to be brought against power companies, talked about for quite a while from some lawyers, which could be interesting.

I think it may well come down to something as simple as customer discrimination.

As a pseudo government organisation the consumer has no chance, if they were fully privitised the government would be all over them for discrimination, either way I think we'll be screwed over any which way.

[poppa smurf]

Customer discrimination is already occurring, the main stumbling block for this is the "contract" exit fee.

if a customer finds a better deal with another company he/she is flogged by their current supplier for daring to leave, there were murmurings in the upper echelon's of banishing this exit fee but of late they have gone quiet.

I keep telling folks to be prepared to "walk" from their current supplier, even paying this thievery for the privilege, to go to a cheaper supplier.

by doing this we promote the old fashioned "competition" which has vanished of late.

the consumer still has a fair bit of choice, this is only one way to deal with these blood suckers, the other way is to tell them to shove the power lines where the sun don't shine and go "off grid".

unfortunately most of us "milking cows" can't afford to do this, but as storage and panels become cheaper more of us will do so.

Meanwhile simply let your fingers do the walking and find the best price for the power and let your provider know you are doing so, you will be surprised at just how much the current provider will lower your charges if they think they are about to lose a customer in this cut throat business.

I'm no greeny, I just hate the thieving mongrel power companies who consider cutting off power to the elderly and the under privileged to be okay simply because they can't afford to pay.

[Rompers]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

Customer discrimination is already occurring, the main stumbling block for this is the "contract" exit fee.

Actually I have no real qualms with this, if you sign up for a contract and this is one of the terms then so be it - yes, Exit fees are rude and I dislike them with a passion too, but if you agree to this, then so be it.

In NSW we are basically stuffed for price as it is regulated and we only get some options, I'm already on pretty much as cheap as I can be (Gas and Power double discount).

Storage systems are nearly worth it, but then you start to have other concerns about safety (batteries do go bang occasionally) and to get overnight coverage you start to need potentially some serious numbers of panels on the roof and not everyone has optimal roof conditions.

[poppa smurf]

I have no qualms about signing a legally binding "contract" with it's clearly written "exit" fee's, where I do take umbrage is that after signing this so called legally binding contract the power suppliers then turn around without warning and break it by increasing your fee's and charges, mine was altered by increasing the supply charge a week after a new contract was entered into.

what if I suddenly decide not to pay the agreed amount, what would happen to me, yet the situation is identical, simply reversed.

if it is legally binding to me then it should be legally binding to them...... had a lawyer talking about this on Leon Byners talk back radio a few days ago, sticking point for a lot of consumers.