How does the welfare system work

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Crap... Govco has had "Deeming" rules in place for over 20 yrs now! (Where THEY deem what interest SHOULD be earned)
There is also maximum amounts held in bank accounts before it affects your pension.. And well less than 100k

$295,000, excluding home $265,000 out of the $296,000 can be financial assets to recieve full pension.

For part pension its up to $1,170,000, so tax payer is still subsidising someone with 7 figures of assets through the form of health care card with the discounts.

For a married couple anyway.

Next question fellas!

[Junkyard-Dog]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Of course there are plenty of jobs out in the bush because no one wants to live there.

That's really a matter of opinion and perspective. My feelings are completely reversed on the topic, I would hate to live in a city. They're full of people!

[Mont5.0]

Originally Posted by sprintman1

Job agency talked me into Cert II in heavy vehicle ops course with the promise of a job at the end. Something different I thought and a HR lic so proceeded to spend 5 weeks in a classroom and practical. Yes I now have said HR lic but amazingly the jobs failed to eventuate, what a surprise... And chasing other driving jobs advertised they're not interested as no experience. Cost me about $60 for book and rules test but govt picked up the tab for the exy part, several thousand I believe.

And your point is?

[sprintman1]

Originally Posted by Mont5.0

And your point is?

you raised unqualified people. I responded.

[Mont5.0]

Originally Posted by sprintman1

you raised unqualified people. I responded.

I get what your saying, how do you get qualified/experience if every employer wants experienced operators.
My point was that agencies work for me as i wouldnt hire someone off the street on face value. Most employers have a 3 month trial period for new employees, only difference is there is no down time in finding another applicant or readvertising if the original employee doesnt work out, when using an agency.

[sprintman1]

Originally Posted by Mont5.0

I get what your saying, how do you get qualified/experience if every employer wants experienced operators.
My point was that agencies work for me as i wouldnt hire someone off the street on face value. Most employers have a 3 month trial period for new employees, only difference is there is no down time in finding another applicant or readvertising if the original employee doesnt work out, when using an agency.

TBH my response was structurally poor at best. Given self uppercut.

[Big_Daz]

Welfare should be their and available for those who actually NEED it... Simple as that..

My wife and I have never been on welfare and that's fine, we both enjoy our jobs and the satisfaction of working hard for what we have... We don't expect huge handouts from the Government... We do claim the Childcare Rebate though as my son is in Daycare a few days a week... Do I feel bad about it? Not really...

My old man is now semi retired... He worked nearly 40 years for the 1 company (Telstra) as an electrical engineer and was fairly high up... He had a decent amount of super and decided to retire as his job was very stressful and he was looking after 120odd staff and he had some other issues that meant the job had to go... He lasted 6 months retired before he got bored and got a job as a wardy at the local hospital to get out of the house... A few months in that job and he ended up as the boss...lol... The whole 10 years he did that job he put half his income before tax (I think??) into his super as extra and a few months ago when he decided to try retiring again he is well and truly set up as a self funded retiree... They don't owe money to anyone and own the house, cars, camper trailer and boat and once mum retires will be buggering off round Australia in the Camper... Dad tells me he doesn't want to claim a part pension.. He earns enough from his super to not need it and doesn't want "money for nothing" when he doesn't really need it... I respect him hugely for that...

Its made my wife and I start to add extra to our super where we can... My work already pays slightly over the minimum (12%) anyway but I don't want to get to retirement age and not have enough $$$ in the kitty to live a decent life (im 34 so got a long while ahead of me)...

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

$295,000, excluding home $265,000 out of the $296,000 can be financial assets to recieve full pension.

For part pension its up to $1,170,000, so tax payer is still subsidising someone with 7 figures of assets through the form of health care card with the discounts.

For a married couple anyway.

Next question fellas!

Sorry, my 100k was a little outdated. It's 152k (single)
My response was more about deeming.. And the comment re: oldies not wanting to earn interest on their moola...

[Trump]

I'm going to toss a grenade in here and make the following statement:

There is no guarantee that people will be able to draw on their super after 2025.

[Beastie]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

I'm going to toss a grenade in here and make the following statement:

There is no guarantee that people will be able to draw on their super in after 2025.

Why not?

[Tassie f100]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

I'm going to toss a grenade in here and make the following statement:

There is no guarantee that people will be able to draw on their super in after 2025.

Well I was under the impression that people will have to rely on their super in a few years because age pensions will be phased out

[Charliewool]

Cos Govco wanta get their greedy mits on those trillions seeing they have bled every other bucket dry.....

[MITCHAY]

You know what is funny. There are plenty of people who don't claim welfare even though they are well qualified to do so.

I would hate to be in the situation that I would need to tap into it but if you have paid taxes that is exactly why you do. To help you out when you need it.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Cos Govco wanta get their greedy mits on those trillions seeing they have bled every other bucket dry.....

This man knows. It won't be long before a fiscal emergency is created that will have the politicians (doesn't matter which variety) justifying the repatriation of the trillions in super to remedy this crisis.

They are already salivating at the prospect, all they need is a "trigger".

[sprintman1]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Cos Govco wanta get their greedy mits on those trillions seeing they have bled every other bucket dry.....

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Be honest and answer some simple questions:

What actions have you taken today to get a job??

What time did you get out of bed the last 5 days (since Monday morning)??

How many phone calls have you made in the last 5 days enquiring about a job??

How many potential employers have you seen in the last week about a job??

Seriously no person with your qualifications that you listed would be out of a job for even a few days if you actively pursued employment?? Unless of course you are no good at your job and word has gotten around??

If of course you are holding out for 300k a year junket instead of a job to pay a wage and pay some bills and get you out of the house then you might be waiting a few more years.

Off topic but every time you post Govco I see Costco. Really do need new glasses..

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Big_Daz

My wife and I have never been on welfare and that's fine, we both enjoy our jobs and the satisfaction of working hard for what we have... We don't expect huge handouts from the Government... We do claim the Childcare Rebate though as my son is in Daycare a few days a week... Do I feel bad about it? Not really...

Funny enough 20% of our welfare cost is family welfare (childcare, family tax benefit etc).

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

Fractional reserve banking is the mechanism by which the banks are able to create almost limitless credit (and by default the amount of money circulating through the economy). For every dollar they have on their books, they can create nine more out of thin air and loan it out or do as they see fit with it. This endless process results in the consistent devaluation of the unit of currency and the resultant increase in prices and wages. It is the sole cause of inflation.

As a result, over 95% of the money in existence is this monetised debt.

Revert to 100% reserve banking and the problems you mentioned essentially disappear as the cost of good comes down due to value added by manufacture and innovation. When the cost of goods (and services) comes down, wages pressures disappear. With wage pressures gone, full employment becomes possible.

Thanks for the clarification, got you now

I do not disagree with you but the genie is out of the bottle as far as the economy is concerned.

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

Revert to 100% reserve banking and the problems you mentioned essentially disappear

Really, we had a war on drugs but sales increased, you could close all the abortion clinics but the backyarders set up, you ban alcohol and the moonshiners are back in business. You stop the banks lending at the current rate and the punters will go elsewhere.

The op's questions may not be eloquent, but they are pertinent.

The true measure of any society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Crap... Govco has had "Deeming" rules in place for over 20 yrs now! (Where THEY deem what interest SHOULD be earned)
There is also maximum amounts held in bank accounts before it affects your pension.. And well less than 100k

I'm sure there are rules regarding this stuff. It seams like for every rule in the financial world, there is always a way to get around it.

I was speaking to this person about 5 years ago about this topic. I can't remember all of the very few details I was given at the time.
I do remember that it was someone with money not wanting to do something with their money because it would affect their pension payments. I should of worded my post like that.

[Beastie]

For every rule, someone will find a way around it (legally).

That's just how it is.

I'm not being negative or positive, just realistic.

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

I'm going to toss a grenade in here and make the following statement:

There is no guarantee that people will be able to draw on their super after 2025.

I fully agree with this. Super is a great idea but the government has turned it into a con. Every government has their own ideas about what super is and by the time I get to retirement age (I'm 29) the age will be 80 or higher if not gone all together and there will be all sorts of taxes, fees and charges. Which is why my money is invested in property and shares. I'll retire when I please (all going well of course) not when the government says I can.

[barrys123]

Originally Posted by Mont5.0

Works both ways. I have hired over 60 casuals in the last 4 years for basic storeman work. These blokes should already have the skills (forklift tickets etc.)
Out of that 60 i have found 5-6 worthy employees. I have then employed them in full time positions. With these "man-hire" companies, they release the workers for full time employment after 12 weeks. The amount of casuals that dont last or cant learn the job in that time is astounding. I would only ever use agencies as at least you can have the choice of an instant replacement when the original candidate isnt up to the task.

What are they born with a forklift ticket in their hand, someone has to train them and it's employers like you that don't accept the responsibility to train people

[barrys123]

[QUOTE=Big Damo;5696037]Yep, one of my relatives works in this particular field involving pensioners and he gets it all the time, I want a pension because I've paid taxes all my life, and they've got assets listed well into 7 figures.

Even if they only get 50 cents a week it gives them a health care card, subsidised rego, medication, public transport etc.

You get people who can't even rub two 5 cent coins together who get a hard time to get any form of welfare then the 7 figures in assets beating the table about paying taxes all their life?

That was what we payed taxes for, as I said super never started till 1981 for normal people and the tax rate was a lot higher than what you pay today and the assumption was we were paying those high rates to pay for our pension, today the employer matches your contributions.

[Mont5.0]

Originally Posted by barrys123

What are they born with a forklift ticket in their hand, someone has to train them and it's employers like you that don't accept the responsibility to train people

I do train people for job specific tasks within the business. A storeman should have a forklift ticket and pick/pack experience as a minimum. Thats why i pay the premium to use an agency to get me "storeman".

If only the work force was as easy as you say, We can all go in as Junior Labourers- no skills required, and come out as Professionals. Unfortunately i dont offer apprenticeships!
Im just looking for employees with a valid forklift ticket and who can pick a product and pack it in a box, basic skills really. If a person cant be motivated enough to spend 2-3 days to obtain a forklift ticket that is required for the job description, why should i be obliged to bring them up to speed? i will just employ the next bloke that has the ticket.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by barrys123

What are they born with a forklift ticket in their hand, someone has to train them and it's employers like you that don't accept the responsibility to train people

This seems to be the big difference between blue and white collar workers in this country. White collar workers tend to accept that they're responsible for their own career skills and career progression. Many blue collar workers seem to feel entitled to have someone else responsible for theirs.

If you want to work as a forklift driver, YOU go and get a forklift licence. If a hospital needs a doctor, does it pick up the tab for someone to do a medicine degree???

I only hire people with relevant skills. The (lack of) loyalty thing cuts both ways nowadays, employees are far more likely to jump from one job to another. Why would I invest in training them? I'm already expected to hike their pay if I require them to use their new skill, why do I also have to pay for them to acquire that skill?

Hate to overuse a cliche, but you want to have your cake and eat it too.

[barrys123]

I'm sure all these so called trades people and those business people with a trade background never paid for their apprenticeship, but had an employer pick up the bill. And if all employers thought like some of you that you only want experienced employees and were not willingl to train, then the source will soon dry up.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by barrys123

I'm sure all these so called trades people and those business people with a trade background never paid for their apprenticeship, but had an employer pick up the bill.

Don't you get paid while doing an apprenticeship?

And if all employers thought like some of you that you only want experienced employees and were not willingl to train, then the source will soon dry up.

Qualifications and experience are two completely different things. You're arguing an employer should pay for someone's qualifications.

[castellan]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

You are seriously out of touch if you don't think age discrimination doesn't exist. Both young and old.

Of course there are plenty of jobs out in the bush because no one wants to live there. That's exactly the reason why the services suck out there.

If I had to go there I would but **** I wouldn't do it by choice.

What's wrong with discrimination ?

If one did not have the ability to discriminate that would make such just a moron if they could not discriminate.

In my line of work I know I don't have the ability to do half of what I once could do now at my age and I know X is no good and Y is ok for this or that and that Z is able in such and no good in some other things.
It happens to be just a fact of life so I put people in positions that are best that I believe for my company to serve best the customer and keep the company afloat.
If I can't do that we will be forced to pack up and start in China like many of the other Aussie Company's have been forced out to do.

The government jobs are propped up by the tax payer, so they can be foolish and live outside the bounds of reality, accountability the Australian people are doing something in their own nest and I think it stinks.

I know an old lefty mate who has over $100,000 in a term deposit and he has been on the dole for 35 years he flat out refuses to work and he knows the system and his rights that they fear him, best he does not work or he would only look for ways to try to sue his employer anyway but that's just your average Aussie good for nothing lefty scumbag.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by b0son

If you want to work as a forklift driver, YOU go and get a forklift licence. If a hospital needs a doctor, does it pick up the tab for someone to do a medicine degree???

Yes Hospitals do train doctors, very meaning of Internship.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by trublu

Yes Hospitals do train doctors, very meaning of Internship.

The hospital doesn't pay, and nor are those interns automatically given a position upon completion. So no, hospitals don't pay to train their prospective employees.

[barrys123]

Originally Posted by b0son

Don't you get paid while doing an apprenticeship?



Qualifications and experience are two completely different things. You're arguing an employer should pay for someone's qualifications.

Yes I do, when you put your car in for a service etc are you charged apprentice's rates when they work on it or tradesman's rates.