Earthquake Japan

[charles_wif_xf]

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-b...0110313x1.html

[Polyal]

I haven't posted on this yet because **** I don't know what to say...this is the worst thing I have ever seen.

I don't mean to be flippant about other devastating things that have happened lately, but this destruction reminds me if old ww clips, vids. Don't know about you guys of my generation but I just can't recall anything like it....it almost makes me feel sick.

If I was in a better situation, without two small kids I'd be going over there to help if it was acceptable....this is just so tragic.

[charles_wif_xf]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I haven't posted on this yet because **** I don't know what to say...this is the worst thing I have ever seen.

I don't mean to be flippant about other devastating things that have happened lately, but this destruction reminds me if old ww clips, vids. Don't know about you guys of my generation but I just can't recall anything like it....it almost makes me feel sick.

If I was in a better situation, without two small kids I'd be going over there to help if it was acceptable....this is just so tragic.

You're not the only one that feels that way Polyal. What we are seeing is unprecedented to almost everyone alive today.

[Mickxr8]

Can we maybe steer away from the nuke side of things for a minute.
Yes it is bad.
I cant see it getting any better anytime soon. the best of the best will be working on this so...
how bout focusing on the bigger picture ie:
The earthquake itself,
The tsunami,
The loss of life ?.
Worry about the worldwide implications later..
Saving lives should be priority number 1.
And dont forget,, us and nz have copped a bit of a flogging lately

[Jim Goose]

The reactor issue is very pressing... If it does go into meltdown and fractures its containment area then not only is Japan screwed (again!) but where ever the preveiling winds take the radiation is also in trouble.

I dont think the loss of life or the damage has taken a back seat.
The earthquake itself didnt really seem to do much damage, but the tsunami certainly did.

The clean up will take years, but that is moot point if the reactor goes pearshaped... there wont be a clean up.

[Jim Goose]

amazing story!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...13/3162808.htm

60yo rescued from sea off Japan's coast

Updated 3 hours 48 minutes ago

A Japanese Self-Defence Force destroyer has rescued a 60-year-old man from the sea some 15 kilometres off Fukushima prefecture after a massive tsunami swept coastal regions following a magnitude 8.9 earthquake on Friday.

The man, identified as Hiromitsu Shinkawa from the city of Minamisoma, was spotted floating in sea on a piece of roof after being swept along with his house, the defence ministry said.

The deadly wall of seawater surged as far as two kilometres inland, leaving random debris, vehicles and the ruins of wood houses jutting from the mud.

The rescued man is conscious and in good condition, ministry officials said, adding he was transported to a hospital by helicopter.

"I ran away after learning that the tsunami was coming," Mr Shinkawa told rescuers, according to Jiji Press.

"But I turned back to pick up something at home when I was washed away. I was rescued while I was hanging to the roof from my house."

[charles_wif_xf]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

The reactor issue is very pressing... If it does go into meltdown and fractures its containment area then not only is Japan screwed (again!) but where ever the preveiling winds take the radiation is also in trouble.

I dont think the loss of life or the damage has taken a back seat.
The earthquake itself didnt really seem to do much damage, but the tsunami certainly did.

The clean up will take years, but that is moot point if the reactor goes pearshaped... there wont be a clean up.

I couldn't have put it any better Jim.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

The reactor issue is very pressing... If it does go into meltdown and fractures its containment area then not only is Japan screwed (again!) but where ever the preveiling winds take the radiation is also in trouble.

I dont think the loss of life or the damage has taken a back seat.
The earthquake itself didnt really seem to do much damage, but the tsunami certainly did.

The clean up will take years, but that is moot point if the reactor goes pearshaped... there wont be a clean up.

The containment area which is technically a containment vessel or building is specifically design to capture the radiation in the event of there being a catastrophic event (aka meltdown), the containment building is built to withstand these huge internal pressures. Containment buildings are also designed to withstand huge external pressures, like taking a direct hit from commercial airline.

However the real concern would be "has the Earthquake fractured/weakened the containment building"?

FWIW, Chernobyl (unlike the Fukushima plant) did not have a containment building and hence when its core went into meltdown and exploded there wasn't anything to contain the release of radiation into the environment. During this mornings Insiders TV show, Chernobyl got mentioned and someone stated that many thousands of people died as a result. I was surprised to hear that Andrew Bolt stated that about 50 people died as a direct result of Chernobyl. Not withstanding that radiation spread across a vast area of land and people have experienced radiation induced thyroid issues and so on, but Andrew Bolt was correct about 50 people died directly as a result or Chernobyl.

The Japanese were warned about building nuclear power stations adjacent to the sea and/or near known seismic areas, I guess they will want to rethink their decisions. Guess where the US has some of its nuclear power stations situated?

[Jim Goose]

I wouldnt place much value in what that guy says....

To this day Chernobyl is only safe for a 1hr visit or so.

And yes there was no containment vessel there.

Japan is on a fault line... not much one can do there.

[Flaming Mo]

Originally Posted by CJR09

Earth has experienced 500% increase in the number of global earthquakes in the last 40yrs...

My jaw nearly hit the keyboard after reading that statistic …….. However the United States Geological Survey (USGS) says that earthquake frequency has remained relatively constant over that time period and has even decreased in recent years. They seem like a fairly reputable bunch.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/learn/faq...ID=6&faqID=110

With respect, sometimes you have to look beyond the first Google hit.

[GASWAGON]

A 6.2 aftershock near Tokyo just hit.... Apparently.

[mik]

Originally Posted by cheap

The containment area which is technically a containment vessel or building is specifically design to capture the radiation in the event of there being a catastrophic event (aka meltdown), the containment building is built to withstand these huge internal pressures. Containment buildings are also designed to withstand huge external pressures, like taking a direct hit from commercial airline.

However the real concern would be "has the Earthquake fractured/weakened the containment building"?

FWIW, Chernobyl (unlike the Fukushima plant) did not have a containment building and hence when its core went into meltdown and exploded there wasn't anything to contain the release of radiation into the environment. During this mornings Insiders TV show, Chernobyl got mentioned and someone stated that many thousands of people died as a result. I was surprised to hear that Andrew Bolt stated that about 50 people died as a direct result of Chernobyl. Not withstanding that radiation spread across a vast area of land and people have experienced radiation induced thyroid issues and so on, but Andrew Bolt was correct about 50 people died directly as a result or Chernobyl.

The Japanese were warned about building nuclear power stations adjacent to the sea and/or near known seismic areas, I guess they will want to rethink their decisions. Guess where the US has some of its nuclear power stations situated?

it would be surprising if only 50 people died, (perhaps that was the immediate figure?)how many quickly got cancer and died afterwards i wonder? moving on,
...........last night early hours i watched a news report and they had a scientist of some sort saying if the reactor went really bad in japan it would be far worse than Chernobyl, as the japanese one is about 100 times bigger, very scarey stuff .

[cheap]

Originally Posted by mik

it would be surprising if only 50 people died, (perhaps that was the immediate figure?)how many quickly got cancer and died afterwards i wonder? moving on,
...........last night early hours i watched a news report and they had a scientist of some sort saying if the reactor went really bad in japan it would be far worse than Chernobyl, as the japanese one is about 100 times bigger, very scarey stuff .

100 times bigger? Perhaps they meant to say 100 times more power generation. There seems to be a fair amount of hype being played out by some media and politicians. As for the Chernobyl figures, I know it is hard to believe, so check for yourselves.

[GASWAGON]

They're whole country is at stake on this one!

[mik]

Originally Posted by cheap

100 times bigger? Perhaps they meant to say 100 times more power generation. There seems to be a fair amount of hype being played out by some media and politicians. As for the Chernobyl figures, I know it is hard to believe, so check for yourselves.

indeed its hard to know how accurate some of these reports are, on the chernobyl thing, i found this thought you may be interested.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...t=va&aid=20908

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by Nitro XR6

Far out are you sure we are not going to be in "doomsday" anytime soon??

It is imminent although we haven't seen all it's signs.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by mik

indeed its hard to know how accurate some of these reports are, on the chernobyl thing, i found this thought you may be interested.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...t=va&aid=20908

Yes it is hard to know who to believe.

So who is Prof Karl Grossman? He is able to declare an exact figure of 985,000 deaths? It was a surprise to read Professor Karl Grossman doesn't have a scientific background, he is a journalist. He is totally anti-nuclear, hosts TV shows, written numerous books, conspiracy theories and so on. Some people might conclude that he is a total nut.

Meanwhile the pictures of the oil refinery on fire are now replaced with headlines such as “Nuclear Emergency” or the “Whole Country is Ruined” and so on. This is media hype. Cyclone Yasi and the Christchurch earthquake are no longer the news.

Yes it is tragic, yes thousands of people are unaccounted for, presumed dead mostly because of the tsunami, but the Japanese have been through this before and are a resilient bunch of people. The vast majority of the nation, its people and its infrastructure is safe and operational. The Japanese are very well resourced too, this is not a 3rd world nation and it is not the end of the world either, even though someone claims a 500% increase in earthquakes (how did they come up with that figure, maybe Prof Karl Grossman again?)

[XRSIKS]

My best friend lives about a hour north-west of tokyo city international airport... i'm trying to convince her and her family to get on a plane and come here....

I feel a strong connection to japan due to my friendship with the family over the past 20 years, this is very devastating to watch, yet i cant stop watching it...

[Jim Goose]

Meanwhile the pictures of the oil refinery on fire are now replaced with headlines such as “Nuclear Emergency” or the “Whole Country is Ruined” and so on. This is media hype. Cyclone Yasi and the Christchurch earthquake are no longer the news.

A reactor whos cooling system has failed and has had an explosion isnt media hype.... its fact. Radio activity has increased and anyone withing a 20km radius has been told to evacuate...

If you think that an event like this is just a normal day at a reactor then think again.

At present there are fears that a 2nd reactor is also having dramas and may also have a meltdown if the cooling system is fixed.

[Jim Goose]

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-b...0110314a1.html

Water injected into Fukushima reactor
Radioactive leak at No. 3 no health risk: Edano
Compiled from Kyodo, AP

Authorities scrambled Sunday to control an overheating reactor at the problem-prone Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant by injecting seawater and venting gas to reduce the pressure inside.

While acknowledging that the core of the plant's No. 3 reactor may have overheated and deformed, Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano denied it led to a meltdown of the critical fuel rods.

At a news conference, Edano said that "a very small amount" of radioactive substances had leaked from the No. 3 reactor, dismissing concerns it posed a threat to human health.

The government's top spokesman warned, however, that a hydrogen explosion similar to the one that blew up a building housing a separate reactor at the facility Saturday could occur again at this reactor.

Large amounts of hydrogen formed when the water injection procedure temporarily ran into trouble and may have filled the upper part of the building housing the No. 3 reactor, Edano said.

The developments came after the cooling systems for some of the plant's reactors failed after the magnitude 9.0 earthquake hit eastern Japan on Friday. The failure caused the core of the No. 1 reactor to partially melt Saturday, triggering fears of a nuclear disaster.

Hidehiko Nishiyama, a senior official at the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry, indicated Sunday that the core of the No. 3 reactor had also undergone some melting.

"I don't think the fuel rods themselves have been spared damage," he said.

The operator of the plant, Tokyo Electric Power Co., began injecting fresh water into the No. 3 reactor's core on Sunday after learning that the tops of its MOX fuel rods were sticking 3 meters out of the cooling water. The rods must be completely covered to avoid overheating.

But after trouble developed with the pump for the fresh water, the company was forced to pour seawater into it, a step that will eventually lead to the reactor's dismantlement. The desperate step, however, caused water levels to rise, Edano said.

Radiation around the reactor exceeded the legal limit to hit 1,557 microsieverts per hour at 1:52 p.m. This rate then fell to 184 microsieverts about 50 minutes later. At this level, Edano said a hydrogen explosion is unlikely to affect human health, even one occurs.

Meanwhile, radiation at the Onagawa nuclear power plant in Miyagi Prefecture shot up from late Saturday through early Sunday, Tohoku Electric Power Co. said, adding that radiation levels were low but about 700 times higher than normal.

The government's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency said the rise in radiation was likely caused by substances scattered by the hydrogen explosion that hit the troubled Fukushima plant on Saturday, dismissing the possibility that the Miyagi plant was to blame.

The No. 3 reactor is the sixth reactor overall linked to the Fukushima No. 1 and No. 2 plants to experience cooling failures since the massive earthquake and ensuing tsunami struck Japan on Friday. The plants sit about 11 km from each other.

The nuclear crisis is raising fears of radiation exposure.

Nineteen people who evacuated from an area within 3 km of the No. 1 plant were found to have been irradiated, joining three others already exposed, the Fukushima Prefectural Government said Sunday.

Another 160 people are feared to have been exposed as well, the government agency said.

The Fire and Disaster Management Agency said that 15 people were found contaminated with radioactive material at a hospital within 10 km of the reactor.

To measure radiation for residents who may have been exposed and determine whether they need emergency treatment, the National Institute of Radiological Sciences sent 17 doctors and experts to the city of Fukushima on Sunday.

Meanwhile, electric power companies in other regions, as well as Japan Nuclear Fuel Ltd., have dispatched 48 people to help Tepco deal with the crisis at the Fukushima power plants.

In Vienna on Saturday, the International Atomic Energy Agency said Japanese authorities had informed it that iodine pills would be distributed to residents around the Fukushima Daiichi and Daini plants.

The government and nuclear authorities said Saturday's explosion at the No. 1 reactor did not damage the steel containment vessel housing its core, noting the blast happened when vapor from the vessel turned into hydrogen and mixed with outside oxygen.

Tokyo Electric Power has begun new cooling operations to fill the reactor with seawater and pour in boric acid to prevent a criticality — a spontaneous atomic chain reaction — from occurring.

Edano said in a news conference Sunday morning that there had been no major changes in the results of radioactivity monitoring near the No. 1 reactor.

In the types of reactors involved, water is used to cool the reactor core and produce steam to turn the turbines that make electricity. The water contains two of the least dangerous forms of radioactivity now in the news — radioactive nitrogen and tritium. Normal plant operations produce both of them in the cooling water, and they are even released routinely in small amounts into the environment, usually through tall chimneys.

[Polyal]

I can't believe people are having a crack at the Japanese for using nuclear....no one said boo until this happened....it is the right long term plan for them, they don't have much space and I doubt much coal.

I feel bad for them in an economic sense too....they were not going great guns and this is going to put them back a long way....I dont think you could even put a number on it.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

A reactor whos cooling system has failed and has had an explosion isnt media hype.... its fact. Radio activity has increased and anyone withing a 20km radius has been told to evacuate...

If you think that an event like this is just a normal day at a reactor then think again.

At present there are fears that a 2nd reactor is also having dramas and may also have a meltdown if the cooling system is fixed.

Thanks Jim, so the Japanese authorities are dealing with the incident. Given the information we have right now minimal radiation has been released, if appropriate precautions are taken the radiation expose would seem not life threatening. The evacuations are part of the normal risk mitigation steps, likewise if this not a nuclear plant but a fertilizer plant or oil refinery there would be evacuations too. How many fertilizer plants or oil refineries have containment buildings?

Here is another news items relegated several pages away from the hype on page one.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AS Japan deals with its earthquake-crippled nuclear power plants, questions are being asked.

Why does such a geologically active region have nuclear power stations?

For an energy-hungry but resource-poor country with skilled engineers, nuclear power was and is an obvious answer. The industry has performed well for more than 40 years and helped propel Japan to technical and economic leadership.

In Australia, opponents of nuclear power already point to the situation in Japan as evidence of the dangers of nuclear reactors. They conveniently sidestep the loss of life and damage caused by exploding oil tanks, burst gas mains, electrical fires: hazards that come with living in a tectonically active region.

Japan has 55 reactors that generate about 30 per cent of its electricity. Half of these reactors are in eight power plants in the Sendai region. When the magnitude 8.9 earthquake hit, 20 reactors were operating. Eleven shut down as sensors reacted to the shifting earth and the remaining nine continued to operate safely. As they were designed for a geologically active region, the shutdown of the reactors went according to plan.

Under normal circumstances the core of a reactor operates at about 600 degrees C. Water circulating around the core is heated beyond boiling point, and the steam drives a turbine that produces electricity. A nuclear core is analogous to a coal or gas-fired furnace.

Without sufficient circulating water, however, even when a working reactor is shut down residual radioactivity can push the core temperature to levels well in excess of 1000 degrees, causing dangerous pressure increases from steam and hot and radioactive gases. If unchecked, a partial core meltdown could follow, rendering the reactor inoperable. This happened at Three Mile Island in the US 1979.

Following the insertion of control rods to stop the chain reaction, cooling must be maintained. However, at the Fukushima plant where four reactors were online, the earthquake knocked out mains electricity and then the tsunami front flooded and destroyed some backup power supplies.

For one, and perhaps two reactors, this created an especially difficult situation as cooling circuit pumps failed. Reviews ahead may well investigate whether such a situation could have been better planned for.

The focus of the Japanese nuclear community has been to restore sufficient cooling to these reactors. However, as shown in graphic television pictures, the housing of the 35-year-old Fukushima No 1 reactor, though not the steel containment vessel within which resides the nuclear core, was blown out following an explosion that is presumed to be from excessive build-up of hydrogen associated with the cooling problem. This makes access to this reactor more complicated. (Nuclear reactors cannot have an atomic explosion but the combination of high-pressure gases, superhot water and electrical circuitry contains all the components for a powerful chemical or electrical explosion.)

Instruments to measure heightened levels of radioactivity are extensively deployed and very sensitive. Whenever radiation leakage is measured in the vicinity of a power station, a series of protocols is followed: community warnings, then evacuation from progressively larger areas. If there is a likelihood of measurable fallout, a subsequent step is distribution of iodide tablets to help saturate relevant organs in our body with benign iodine and inhibit the uptake of radioactive iodine in the air or from food. This is especially critical for young children.

Most of us are exposed to about 4 millisieverts (mSv) of mainly background radiation each year. Radiation workers are allowed 50mSv per year. At the current radiation level reported at the perimeter of the damaged Fukushima plant, an individual dose would exceed 50mSv after about a week's continuous exposure. Measurable radiation poisoning occurs at a much higher level still.

Controlled venting of excess and mildly radioactive gases is happening, will result in some community exposure to radiation, but is very unlikely to have an effect on community health. At this time, only workers on site are likely to have had elevated radiation exposures. In the context of the general devastation from the earthquake and tsunami, any health or property damage arising from the affected reactors is likely to be small.

If core cooling can be satisfactorily restored, then in the best case local residents could return to their homes in days.

Engineers have taken extraordinary steps to get coolant to the reactor of most concern, flooding the core with seawater. This is a step probably not in the playbook and reflects grievous concerns about core integrity. Still, the combination of venting and seawater flushing should stabilise the situation in the days ahead. The reactor itself is a write-off.

Plans in Japan anticipate further growth in nuclear power but an earthquake of this magnitude followed by a huge tsunami may well demand another look at design specifications.

We will learn from the tragic Japanese experience how to build more robust reactors, how to ensure multiple layers of protection work properly, how to better contain radioactive gases. But when the grisly causes of fatalities, injuries and asset damage are eventually itemised nuclear facilities may not even feature.

Ziggy Switkowski is chancellor of RMIT and a former chairman of the Australian Nuclear Science and Technology Organisation

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Meanwhile the Australian media hype continues "As close as it gets to sum of all fears", "JAPAN'S NUCLEAR EMERGENCY" , "NUCLEAR NIGHTMARE", "Race to stop meltdown". True to form the NT News has a crocodile related story on page one (as well as Radiation Alert).

[TheSneakiness]

Originally Posted by WWF6 310

A USGS Geologist has said the island of Japan has moved 8 feet

This I can believe. With the plates shifting like they do during an earthquake physical locations can change.

Originally Posted by WWF6 310

and the earth has moved 4" off it's axis.. Due to the quake!

This I can't believe. If the Earth is meant to be floating in a "nothingness", how can an earthquake change the rotational axis of an object?

My wife is still in contact with a Japanese exchange student and they are still friends to this day and she made contact not long after the earthquake to say they are all OK. Bloody devastating 2011 has been.

[NickyN]

Originally Posted by INTOXIC8D

My best friend lives about a hour north-west of tokyo city international airport... i'm trying to convince her and her family to get on a plane and come here....

I feel a strong connection to japan due to my friendship with the family over the past 20 years, this is very devastating to watch, yet i cant stop watching it...

I feel for you, as I have family and friends in JPN, and some of my friends know people in Chiba and Sendai.

I just heard that Tokyo Electric Power Co. will begin rolling blackouts starting today (Mon.) to cope with severe electricity shortages. Almost all railway companies in the Tokyo metro area announced that they are canceling or reducing svcs because of the planned electricity outage.

The scope of devastation is unbelievable.....

[NickyN]

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

This I can't believe. If the Earth is meant to be floating in a "nothingness", how can an earthquake change the rotational axis of an object?

We're talking microseconds, but it's effects will eventually be felt.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ac/20110313/...in_earths_axis

* The U.S. Geological Survey initially estimated that Japan as a whole has physically moved by approximately 8 feet, but other scientists around the globe have estimated that some parts of the country may actually have moved as much as 12 feet closer to North America. In addition, parts of the country's terrain are not permanently under sea level, which will make it difficult for the flooding caused by the tsunami to drain.

* The loss of 1.8 microseconds as a result of the shift in the Earth's axis is unlikely to cause more than minute changes, but among those changes will actually be differences in the passing of the seasons. This will only be observable using satellite navigation systems with very precise monitoring equipment.

* The shift of the Earth's axis and loss of time is similar to that experienced after the Chilean earthquake last year, which sped up the Earth's rotation and resulted in the loss of 1.26 microseconds.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by Rapid_Axe

This I can believe. With the plates shifting like they do during an earthquake physical locations can change.



This I can't believe. If the Earth is meant to be floating in a "nothingness", how can an earthquake change the rotational axis of an object?

My wife is still in contact with a Japanese exchange student and they are still friends to this day and she made contact not long after the earthquake to say they are all OK. Bloody devastating 2011 has been.

Slight change in weight distribution will cause a small spinning object to shift its rotational axis. So when a relatively massive object like Earth shifts its rotational axis, this means a significant amount of weight shifted too. If you research into Milankovitch cycles the change in rotation could in thousands of years time, impact upon the seasonal weather variations (climate change).

[charles_wif_xf]

Japanese TV is reporting that there has been an explosion at the no. 3 reactor at Fukushima and that the sea level has dropped five metres and a tsunami is imminent. Unconfirmed at this point in time.

Edit 1:44PM: The tsunami is dissipating.

[blueoval]

That second explosion looked bigger. Lord help them

[charles_wif_xf]

Originally Posted by blueoval

That second explosion looked bigger. Lord help them

It looked massive compared to the first one. I hope that it's only the containment building and not the containment vessel and/or core.

[scoupedy]

was skiing in Hokkiado and we came home early should have still been there,
The japanese people are really nice and friendly so sad that they have to go through this