Twilight for the traditional ICE automobile

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by ozrunner

Dude do you pull you post information out of your rectum just to suit your BS cause.

Read the release again. It says there will also be an OPTION for an EV in every passenger car model meaning ICE will still be the main player as EV's are only an option. They are also expecting 2/3 of commercial vehicles to be non ice so 1/3 will still be ice or maybe more.

Also since when has California been a world biggest car maker.

Don't let facts get in the way of green propaganda.

[kmav23]

Originally Posted by ozrunner

Dude do you pull you post information out of your rectum just to suit your BS cause.

Read the release again. It says there will also be an OPTION for an EV in every passenger car model meaning ICE will still be the main player as EV's are only an option. They are also expecting 2/3 of commercial vehicles to be non ice so 1/3 will still be ice or maybe more.

Also since when has California been a world biggest car maker.

No need for personal insults or be derogatory if someone has a different view.

From the official Ford press Release from Ford.

FORD will stop making and selling all ICE vehicles in Europe by 2030! this is why its big press release the other day !

Jaguar announced it will only make EVS by 2025 !

EU countries and California are planning to ban ICE vehicles from sale from early as 2030, so that why all the car companies have plans to stop making ICE cars as early as 2025 to 2030.

Norway trying ban all new ICE cars to be sold by 2025.

If California was a country its economy would be the fifth biggest in the world.

Its the biggest car market in America and 10th if ranked as a country itself, thus having great influence. All the most innovative and important companies are based in California.

https://media.ford.com/content/fordm...rofitabil.html

COLOGNE, Germany, Feb. 17, 2021 – Ford today is taking a significant step forward in its European transformation with a commitment to go all-in on its electric passenger vehicles and to substantially grow and electrify its leading commercial vehicle business.

Ford committed today that by mid-2026, 100 percent of Ford’s passenger vehicle range in Europe will be zero-emissions capable, all-electric or plug-in hybrid, and will be completely all-electric by 2030. Similarly, Ford’s entire commercial vehicle range will be zero-emissions capable, all-electric or plug-in hybrid, by 2024, with two-thirds of Ford’s commercial vehicle sales expected to be all-electric or plug-in hybrid by 2030.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/jagu...on-plans-2025/

Until today, Jaguar had only just dipped its paw into the proverbial milk saucer of automotive electrification, but after taking a deep breath, the feline luxury automaker has gone and leapt all the way in. Jaguar will be an all-electric brand by 2025. That means the legendary British marque is taking on Tesla head-on, and doing so much sooner than Bentley and General Motors—two other major brands that have recently promised to go all-electric by a certain date.

[Bossxr8]

Jag is having one last roll of the dice. They just canned the new xj ev when it was pretty close to release, and another ev suv. E pace? No idea why you would spend hundreds of millions of dollars getting new cars close to production ready, then cancelling them months before release. Can’t see why they did it.

Either way, they are only making less than 200k cars a year. Jag is in serious trouble. They are gambling the brand on ev’s saving them now.

[hayseed]

Isn't jaguar owned by TATA..??

[ozrunner]

Originally Posted by kmav23

No need for personal insults or be derogatory if someone has a different view.

Given your history on this site the irony of this comment is off the scale.

You jumped in and posted the following stating that Ford will have no ICE cars by 2026, which is blatantly wrong. What may or may not happen post 2030 has no relevance to my comment.

Originally Posted by kmav23

Ford announced they will only make and sell full EVs by 2030 in Europe. No ICE cars by 2026, only EVs or hybrids in Europe...........

Even you highlight Ford's press release, which also refutes your post, ie Ford says by mid-2026, 100% of its passenger vehicle range in Europe will be zero-emissions capable, all-electric or plug-in hybrid;and will be completely all-electric by 2030. Similarly, Ford’s entire commercial vehicle range will be zero-emissions capable, all-electric or plug-in hybrid, by 2024, with two-thirds of Ford’s commercial vehicle sales expected to be all-electric or plug-in hybrid by 2030.

ie, zero emissions capable meaning there will be EV/Hybrid options of all models in 2026 along with ICE up to 2030.

Comment from Ford of Europe Vice President of Marketing, Sales, and Service Roelant de Waard.

“This decade will see major changes in the auto industry. At Ford, we are embracing electrification and will have 14 electrified vehicles this year,” said Ford of Europe Vice President of Marketing, Sales, and Service Roelant de Waard. “To kick it off, we launched our new ‘Bring on Tomorrow’ brand campaign signalling a shift in our business toward the future where all new vehicles will have an electrified option.”

[kmav23]

Originally Posted by ozrunner

Given your history on this site the irony of this comment is off the scale.

You jumped in and posted the following stating that Ford will have no ICE cars by 2026, which is blatantly wrong. What may or may not happen post 2030 has no relevance to my comment.



Even you highlight Ford's press release, which also refutes your post, ie Ford says by mid-2026, 100% of its passenger vehicle range in Europe will be zero-emissions capable, all-electric or plug-in hybrid;and will be completely all-electric by 2030. Similarly, Ford’s entire commercial vehicle range will be zero-emissions capable, all-electric or plug-in hybrid, by 2024, with two-thirds of Ford’s commercial vehicle sales expected to be all-electric or plug-in hybrid by 2030.

ie, zero emissions capable meaning there will be EV/Hybrid options of all models in 2026 along with ICE up to 2030.

Comment from Ford of Europe Vice President of Marketing, Sales, and Service Roelant de Waard.

“This decade will see major changes in the auto industry. At Ford, we are embracing electrification and will have 14 electrified vehicles this year,” said Ford of Europe Vice President of Marketing, Sales, and Service Roelant de Waard. “To kick it off, we launched our new ‘Bring on Tomorrow’ brand campaign signalling a shift in our business toward the future where all new vehicles will have an electrified option.”

This was big news last week.

[jpd80]

Just remember that Ford normally counts trim levels as separate new vehicles, either 14 new electrified vehicles could actually be like three new models and will include hybrids.

Speculation:
NG Ranger should have a hybrid version for sale in Europe,
makes sense as Ford moves away from diesel there.

Rumours:
BEV Ranger late this decade as a share on BEV F150 platform?
Would that mean T6 ICE continues in Asia Pacific as long as required?

[ozrunner]

Originally Posted by kmav23

This was big news last week.

Yet you had to add a BS interpretation.

Just a reminder of one of your former posts that you have 4 more years for EV's to reach your predicted 50% of Oz car sales by 2025. Did you give that number to Shorten or get it from him.

They're going to need to up their game considering at the moment they only represent around 0.08% of the total vehicle fleet in Australia .

[kmav23]

Originally Posted by ozrunner

Yet you had to add a BS interpretation.

Just a reminder of one of your former posts that you have 4 more years for EV's to reach your predicted 50% of Oz car sales by 2025. Did you give that number to Shorten or get it from him.

They're going to need to up their game considering at the moment they only represent around 0.08% of the total vehicle fleet in Australia .

Norway already reached 50%.

There is going be a big a escalation as more affordable EVs models come to Australia in the next few years.

My prediction will be more accurate than others on the forum who said EVs won't take off or that Tesla will go bankrupt etc..

All NSW buses going to be full electric by 2030.

[Bossxr8]

So apparently there is going to be a mini Mustang Mach E.

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/ford/3...ctric-car-2023

[oldel]

Originally Posted by kmav23

Norway already reached 50%.

Do you remember what happened after Norway reached such high uptake?

https://thedriven.io/2020/01/20/norw...r-than-petrol/

It's all going to cost money, and the gov isn't (and shouldn't) pay for the infrastructure. Everyone thinks of home charging on local rates when they think of how much an electric car costs to run.
But you can't always charge them at home and we're going to run into the problem of either the gov wanting to claw back lost fuel excise dollars,, increase demand on electrical grids, and private infrastructure if built needing to make a profit.
When the uptake is high then the true costs will start to show. And it won't be cheap, which is why expensive electric cars make no sense to the pauper looking at a cheap car.
Early adopters with cash for a tesla are doing OK, but the future (high EV uptake) isn't going to be what they think it is when everyone is in an EV and waiting in a queue at the charger and it costs the same to charge as a petrol car would cost to fill

[Hulsty]

EV's are not about cost reductions for the consumer....

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Hulsty

EV's are not about cost reductions for the consumer....

This. As long as they stay with current ICE cars with all the environmental benefits, they're doing what they're meant to.

As with anything, early adopters pay higher prices but get extra benefits for doing so.

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[oldel]

Which is why when you say Australia should have high uptake and give Norway as your example it just makes no sense.

We have an older fleet, longer driving trips, wider area to install chargers, and we don't tax old cars like Norway does, or buy as many expensive new euros that are buried under their tighter emissions standard (which is forcing them to go EV).

Our uptake of EVs will never be as fast, as high, or complete.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by oldel

Which is why when you say Australians should have high uptake and give Norway as your example it just makes no sense.

We have an older fleet, longer driving trips, wider area to install chargers, and we don't tax old cars like Norway does, or buy as many expensive new euros that are buried under their tighter emissions standard.

Our uptake of EVs will never be as fast or complete.

Eh? I didn't mention Norway. But it was mentioned.

Australia have always been laggards with technology (even with things we invent ourselves!). Problem for Australia is that the rest of the world has locked in to move on and they will not build products just for 25 million people.

So get with the programme or we get left behind. Will be a dumping ground of old and outdated cars.

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[Wretched]

Originally Posted by kypez

Eh? I didn't mention Norway. But it was mentioned.

Australia have always been laggards with technology (even with things we invent ourselves!). Problem for Australia is that the rest of the world has locked in to move on and they will not build products just for 25 million people.

So get with the programme or we get left behind. Will be a dumping ground of old and outdated cars.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

We may be a dumping ground but if world wide fuel refinement is also scaled back to meet the drop in demand, we will definitely be on the backfoot.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Wretched

We may be a dumping ground but if world wide fuel refinement is also scaled back to meet the drop in demand, we will definitely be on the backfoot.

Scary thought what we'd be expected to pay for fuel if that happens!

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[oldel]

From what I saw during covid, if no one wants it, the price goes down

[kypez]

Originally Posted by oldel

From what I saw during covid, if no one wants it, the price goes down

That was due to over supply. Totally opposite issue. We'll be the only ones wanting it and they can charge whatever they want at that point.

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[oldel]

No, all of south asia, south america, africa will want fuel too, most of US with their love affair of trucks, the global proper trucks, ships and trains etc.
S.A. and the rest of the M.E. isn't going to stop drilling for oil just because europe goes electric and there's some teslas in the USA.

Australia isn't going to miss out. EVs just won't flood the market here due to their pricing. Australia can't do much about that because we don't have an auto industry anymore.
E: One day we'll probably all be driving cheap electric Chinese EVs, or maybe some aussie ingenuity will make cheap conversion kits to convert classic cars (chinese made of course, but maybe aussie engineered). We'll never have high uptake on expensive euros or teslas though.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by oldel

No, all of south asia, south america, africa will want fuel too, most of US with their love affair of trucks, the global proper trucks, ships and trains etc.
S.A. and the rest of the M.E. isn't going to stop drilling for oil just because europe goes electric and there's some teslas in the USA.

Australia isn't going to miss out. EVs just won't flood the market here due to their pricing. Australia can't do much about that because we don't have an auto industry anymore.
E: One day we'll probably all be driving cheap electric Chinese EVs, or maybe some aussie ingenuity will make cheap conversion kits to convert classic cars (chinese made of course, but maybe aussie engineered). We'll never have high uptake on expensive euros or teslas though.

US are moving away from Oil. Sure, they love it but their govts have said they want to move away. Be interesting how it works out.

You're a brave man to say flat out, "No". South Asia are pushing harder than the US to move away from oil. They are offering incentives and have manufacturing there so they can spin up EV's cheap if their govts decide to produce themselves.

Don't worry about Euros or Teslas. They'll make their own cars for a fraction of the price and that will drive adoption. India aren't allowing older cars to be registered beyond 20 years and this is disrupting a lot of things (not pushing to EV's yet, but they have a target for 2030 or something such).

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by oldel

No, all of south asia, south america, africa will want fuel too, most of US with their love affair of trucks, the global proper trucks, ships and trains etc.
S.A. and the rest of the M.E. isn't going to stop drilling for oil just because europe goes electric and there's some teslas in the USA.

Australia isn't going to miss out. EVs just won't flood the market here due to their pricing. Australia can't do much about that because we don't have an auto industry anymore.
E: One day we'll probably all be driving cheap electric Chinese EVs, or maybe some aussie ingenuity will make cheap conversion kits to convert classic cars (chinese made of course, but maybe aussie engineered). We'll never have high uptake on expensive euros or teslas though.

You're a very brave person to use current state to predict future state.

With the list of countries (not just European) banning sale of petrol cars increasing there is little incentive for car makers to continue investing billions into ICE powered cars without some form of hybridisation. The USA is not far behind either, California has put a mandate for the ban of petrol cars from 2035, New Jersey isn't far behind.

Ford is set to bring an EV F150 (biggest selling vehicle) in 2023.
The change is coming, like it or not.

I'd suggest you have read of the available EVs world wide not available in Australia. You'll see you don't need to spend a fortune. Hyundai, VW, Ford, Nissan, Renault, etc. All offer reasonably priced EVs. We don't get them because our governments are far too short sighted and corrupt to see the inevitable.

BTW - there are many places out there that do ICE to electric conversion for older cars. You just need to go and have a look around, yes in Australia. Heaps of YT videos of people getting cars converted over. Spend some time and do some actual reading and educate yourself on the topic.

[oldel]

I don't need to be brave, lets just say none of it makes a difference to my life right now anyway. LOL at the world will change drastically in 2030. It won't but if it does I won't be around and I'm not shopping for a brand new car.

Everything I'm talking about is how Australia will change soon. Obvious I don't care what happens elsewhere or what we can't get. That doesn't affect life here at all does it? That's all we should be caring about, local effect. Whos got time for anything else and why would it matter? If we don't buy a lot of euros, american or even Indian cars then it doesn't matter.
The change is coming here when the Chinese flog them cheap, like it or not.

When I said convert a classic I didn't mean custom jobs, I mean kits cheap enough people want to do it because it makes fiscal sense over an engine rebuild. If that would happen before I die then it would be cool.

[kmav23]

Originally Posted by oldel

I don't need to be brave, lets just say none of it makes a difference to my life right now anyway. LOL at the world will change drastically in 2030. It won't but if it does I won't be around and I'm not shopping for a brand new car.

Everything I'm talking about is how Australia will change soon. Obvious I don't care what happens elsewhere or what we can't get. That doesn't affect life here at all does it? That's all we should be caring about, local effect. Whos got time for anything else and why would it matter? If we don't buy a lot of euros, american or even Indian cars then it doesn't matter.
The change is coming here when the Chinese flog them cheap, like it or not.

When I said convert a classic I didn't mean custom jobs, I mean kits cheap enough people want to do it because it makes fiscal sense over an engine rebuild. If that would happen before I die then it would be cool.

Alot of people will still be alive in 2030 so the conversion of Cars and transportation to EVs is the most significant change to the automobile.

Australia should plan ahead and invest in the infrastructure, expertise, materials, manufacturing and training for a future of EVs, batteries and electrification rather than playing catch up to the rest of the world.

NSW government has announced all buses to convert to electric buses by 2030 and companies will make most of the buses in Australia.

Plan ahead for the future so the younger generation has a job and skills.

People used to complain why do we need NBN or fast internet, it's only got computer games. I'm sure many were fond of their horses as well before the conversion to cars.

[Franco Cozzo]

With everything going hybrid in the next 10 years, there's gotta be some money to be made in resource companies that do nickel or lithium?

$ADD

[kypez]

Originally Posted by oldel

I don't need to be brave, lets just say none of it makes a difference to my life right now anyway. LOL at the world will change drastically in 2030. It won't but if it does I won't be around and I'm not shopping for a brand new car.



Everything I'm talking about is how Australia will change soon. Obvious I don't care what happens elsewhere or what we can't get. That doesn't affect life here at all does it? That's all we should be caring about, local effect. Whos got time for anything else and why would it matter? If we don't buy a lot of euros, american or even Indian cars then it doesn't matter.

The change is coming here when the Chinese flog them cheap, like it or not.



When I said convert a classic I didn't mean custom jobs, I mean kits cheap enough people want to do it because it makes fiscal sense over an engine rebuild. If that would happen before I die then it would be cool.

You might not have noticed, but we don't make anything here any more. We are totally at the mercy of what direction the rest of the world takes.

And we are too insignificant to matter for most manufacturing countries.

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[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kypez

You might not have noticed, but we don't make anything here any more. We are totally at the mercy of what direction the rest of the world takes.

And we are too insignificant to matter for most manufacturing countries.

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We still have some second stage manufacturers building things like buses, trains and trains.

Volgren, Bombardier/Alstrom etc.

Electric buses are interesting, will be great on suburban/city routes.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

We still have some second stage manufacturers building things like buses, trains and trains.

Volgren, Bombardier/Alstrom etc.

Electric buses are interesting, will be great on suburban/city routes.

Give it time and even that will disappear.

NSW gave the Metro contract to a company that builds them in India. It should've been a local tender!

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kypez

Give it time and even that will disappear.

NSW gave the Metro contract to a company that builds them in India. It should've been a local tender!

It's sooner than you think.

Sydney Waratah trains made by China, we have the capability to build trains in Melbourne

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by kmav23

Alot of people will still be alive in 2030 so the conversion of Cars and transportation to EVs is the most significant change to the automobile.

Australia should plan ahead and invest in the infrastructure, expertise, materials, manufacturing and training for a future of EVs, batteries and electrification rather than playing catch up to the rest of the world.

NSW government has announced all buses to convert to electric buses by 2030 and companies will make most of the buses in Australia.

Plan ahead for the future so the younger generation has a job and skills.

People used to complain why do we need NBN or fast internet, it's only got computer games. I'm sure many were fond of their horses as well before the conversion to cars.

You do realise that EV's aren't that new don't you?

From the article......

"In 1901, 38 per cent of the cars were electric, and 20 per cent or so were petrol, and in the middle, there was the outgoing technology of steam," says technologist and historian David Kirsch.

"If you'd asked the great experts of their age in 1900 which technology would come to dominate the motor-based transportation, I think most learned people would have said electricity."


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-...bMhO8U5odiQ998