New to cycling

[mik]

these things happen mate, all par for the course Shav , we take in stride (cry out of sight when no ones looking )
on a brighter note , what a magnificent day for getting out on the bike today , i try and not go the same routes every day , and best of intentions try and do 20 + k`s every time i go out, i dont always manage to to do it, just dont feel up to it sometimes,

lately my average has probably been about 17 + , but the last few days ive cracked it for low twentys , did 27 ish k`s today , average speed 20.2 kph , a little better than my usual.

As i mentioned not going the same way , i tried a different route today that took me from reservoir north to , jacana, glenroy, north coburg, east reservoir, thomastown , then back to reservoir north with some different roads and bike paths , and at the end of it while feeling a little puffed i actually felt like i could have gone another 10 or 15 k`s , so i think my fitness level is coming up , i can even notice the hills are disappearing with a bit more speed, so im pretty happy all around at the moment .
I think my bike is set up pretty good now as well which no doubt is helping,
i bought some nice alloy mountain bike down hill pedals the other day as the cheapie 10 dollar made in china oem ones where clicking and grinding annoyingly.
im pretty happy with the new big pedals, they suit my size 14 boot, and have nice pins to stop feet slipping off, they look like they are serviceable too,
but im not sure on that one,
Pinner dh flat pedal 362 if any one is interested in a nice big flat pedal with no bells and whistles, a little on the pricey side though $129 i paid..

[blueoval]

These crashes remind me of this

[mik]

i hate to even look at bones breaking , had my share off them , pain does hurt :( .

[Whitey-AMG]

On a lighter note folks....
Beaut ride up through the hills. Lord of the rings soundtrack on my earphones and a perfect view. Got off the bike and just sucked it all in and escaped for a while....

[NTF6]

Originally Posted by mik

these things happen mate, all par for the course Shav , we take in stride (cry out of sight when no ones looking )

on a brighter note , what a magnificent day for getting out on the bike today , i try and not go the same routes every day , and best of intentions try and do 20 + k`s every time i go out, i dont always manage to to do it, just dont feel up to it sometimes,



lately my average has probably been about 17 + , but the last few days ive cracked it for low twentys , did 27 ish k`s today , average speed 20.2 kph , a little better than my usual.



As i mentioned not going the same way , i tried a different route today that took me from reservoir north to , jacana, glenroy, north coburg, east reservoir, thomastown , then back to reservoir north with some different roads and bike paths , and at the end of it while feeling a little puffed i actually felt like i could have gone another 10 or 15 k`s , so i think my fitness level is coming up , i can even notice the hills are disappearing with a bit more speed, so im pretty happy all around at the moment .

I think my bike is set up pretty good now as well which no doubt is helping,

i bought some nice alloy mountain bike down hill pedals the other day as the cheapie 10 dollar made in china oem ones where clicking and grinding annoyingly.

im pretty happy with the new big pedals, they suit my size 14 boot, and have nice pins to stop feet slipping off, they look like they are serviceable too,

but im not sure on that one,

Pinner dh flat pedal 362 if any one is interested in a nice big flat pedal with no bells and whistles, a little on the pricey side though $129 i paid..

Those pedals look pretty sexy, huge platform but I reckon I'd wipe them out with the amount of pedal strikes I do!

[mik]

Originally Posted by NTF6

Those pedals look pretty sexy, huge platform but I reckon I'd wipe them out with the amount of pedal strikes I do!

Yes they do feel like they may be a bit more prone to a pedal strike, I am being a tad more cautious with them.

[DBourne]

Picked up my Defy, for commuting, today.

Defy-1 by Dave Bourne, on Flickr

Defy-2 by Dave Bourne, on Flickr

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Bluey-GT

escaped for a while....

thats what its all about. escaping for an hour or 4. I'm lucky in that i live right on the edge of suburbia, and less than 5km from my door i'm in the sticks. great to just get out and clear the head sometimes.. or just plain enjoy the view.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by DBourne

Picked up my Defy, for commuting, today.

imageDefy-1 by Dave Bourne, on Flickr

imageDefy-2 by Dave Bourne, on Flickr

That is a very nice commuter, what do you think of the disc brakes?

[geckoGT]

I have a few rides on it now and fiddled with a few things so it is time for thoughts on the new groupset and wheels.

At the start I really should point out that I am comparing a 2003 Shimano Dura Ace 9 speed groupset to a Campagnolo Record 11 speed groupset so not really a fair comparison. I will give my thoughts on the individual aspects of the groupset and its function. First off the change in groupset shaved about 500gm off the weight of the bike.

Some interesting results came out of this in that the cranks were not considerably lighter than my old FSA carbons although the new cranks included BB bearings and half the axle where the old set up runs a full octalink BB. The difference in the octalink Dura Ace BB and the Campagnolo BB cups is 174gms to 44gms so in the end the old set up was 781 gms and the new Campagnolo is 704gms. Not a big saving there and one that might be attributed largely by the smaller semi compact chainrings. The difference between the two is in the stiffness is massive. I used to think that my Merckx 1xm had a fair bit of BB flex but I now know it was contributed greatly by the flex in the cranks. The new Campagnolo Record crank is markedly stiffer than my old crank. As a bonus the build was easy and lot less fiddly than the Dura Ace BB.

Drivetrain the rear derailleur and shifters are lighter on the Campagnolo, interestingly the Dura Ace front derailleur was actually lighter by 5gms. Also the Ultegra 12-27 9spd cassette was the same weight as the new cassette that is also a 12-27, but to be fair the new one has 2 extra cogs in it. Functionally I have had a fair few messed up shifts due to the difference in the lever layout. On the Dura Ace the small lever behind the brake shifts to a harder gear on the rear, on the Campagnolo the same lever shifts to an easier gear. As a result I have had a few occasions that I have gone the wrong way to an easier gear on descents. That is just teaching an old dog new tricks and the new system is starting to become familiar. The shifters are a comfortable place to rest your hands and the lever layout seems to fit my hands well. The shifts are precise and fast, better than the old Dura Ace but after 12 years of development they should be. A feature I really liked is on the old Dura Ace rear I could go into an easier gear either single of 3 at a time depending on how far I pushed the lever but on going to a harder gear I could only go one at a time. This resulted in me have to click through 6 shifts as I crested hills onto a descent. On the new Campagnolo I can shift to easier gears just the same but I can also shift up to harder gears either singularly or 3 at a time. To do this I just push down on the lever and the more I push the more gears I shift with each click equaling 1 gear. Talking of the clicks, all the shifts involve very noticeable clicks that leave you in no doubt how many gears you are moving. On the front derailleur the shifts are very good, way faster and easier than the old Dura Ace. The old Dura Ace used to require a bit of thought and feel in the lever to execute a clean shift. They also used to require a bit of thought on where you shift, as you would have to back off on the pedal pressure to do the shift. On the Campagnolo the thought is taken it out of it, just hit the lever. The front derailleur does have multiple clicks giving a trim setting to stop the chain from rubbing when on the small ring and the smallest 2 cogs but I find I rarely use it as I tend to swap onto the big ring and larger cogs for an equivalent gear which is my more mechanically sympathetic. In terms of the driveline I have to say the Campagnolo has a clear advantage over the Dura Ace particularly in terms of crank stiffness, front derailleur action and the operation of the shifters.

Brakes are not really much of a change as they both stop well although I was running Swiss Stop pads on the Dura Ace and on the Campagnolo I am using OEM pads. Centering the Shimano brakes is easier and I found the Shimano’s did not require toe in where the Campagnolo like some toe in or they tend to be a bit noisy.

Wheels were another big change as I went from a 2003 Campagnolo Eurus to a 2016 Mavic Ksyrium SLS. Weight was quite a difference at about 300 gms although this was with the 213 gm Continental 4000sII 25mm on the Campagnolo wheels and the 190gm Mavic Yksiom 23mm tyres on the Mavics. One big lesson riding a bike that has fewer noises and does not require the Ipod being turned up to cover them is how many issues your old gear really had. I took the old wheels for a run today with my brakes set how they usually are and I did not realise I had pads dragging due to wheel flex. These wheels never used to flex like that during out of the saddle climbing and I have no doubt it is just age. The new Ksyriums are a lot stiffer with no flex and no pads dragging. They also feel better on climbs with a lot more responsiveness and obvious lighter weight. Would they feel better than a new Campagnolo Eurus? I am not so sure and I suspect they may be very similar. On flat ground there really was not much between the two when holding a steady pace so I suspect the aero of the Campagnolo wheel is a little better but that is not surprising as it has spokes that are half the width of the Mavic’s.

Now for the tyres and the comparison is between my old Continental GP 4000s II in 25mm and the Mavic Yksiom 23mm that came with the wheels. The Mavics run a different compound on the front than the rear, front called Griplink and rear called Powerlink. The rear is a harder compound with a bit more weight in the tyre. On the road they are not bad, very fast and seem very grippy in the dry leading me to have no issues with confidence throwing them through fast corners on some big descents. I have read there are issues with their wet weather grip but I can’ comment as I have not ridden them in the wet (and probably won’t). My issue with them is they are uncomfortable, for a 23mm tyre they look pretty narrow and the back country roads I ride on them they felt harder than my old Conti 23mm tyres with the same 100 psi. I have changed back to my GP 4000 25mm at 100 psi, a lot more comfortable and they feel just as fast on these crap roads. I have little doubt that on good roads in the dry the Mavics might be a bit quicker and accelerate quicker due to the light weight, but in my normal riding the Conti’s do a better job.

So in the end the bike lost nearly 1kg in weight between the group set, the wheels and changing to my lighter USE Alien seat post, which is not a bad result. It makes fewer noises and does everything better. Not only that it now has a bit more wow factor, a nice Italian built Eddy Merckx frame built up with Campagnolo Record is a lovely sight. Yes much cheaper bikes may perform just as well or better but this one puts a big smile on my face as it not only rides well but it is nice to look at too.

[prydey]

Nice write up. Makes me want to spend some money on mine but unfortunately the toys are well down the list at the moment. I would love new shifters, if only for cosmetic reasons as I'm still running povo 2012 tiagra which doesn't even have hidden cabling for the gears. The only saving grace is I've never ridden anything else so its not like I can compare them with anything.

Having ridden on the roads around your area Lynton, I certainly wouldn't be running anything less than 25's.

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by prydey

Nice write up. Makes me want to spend some money on mine but unfortunately the toys are well down the list at the moment. I would love new shifters, if only for cosmetic reasons as I'm still running povo 2012 tiagra which doesn't even have hidden cabling for the gears. The only saving grace is I've never ridden anything else so its not like I can compare them with anything.

Having ridden on the roads around your area Lynton, I certainly wouldn't be running anything less than 25's.

You're handling the Tiagra like a pro though Rob, so the equipment is up to the task. Im running Ultegra with external cabling also. Looks unsightly and is definitely very 2011-ish but it does the job.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by blueoval

You're handling the Tiagra like a pro though Rob, so the equipment is up to the task. Im running Ultegra with external cabling also. Looks unsightly and is definitely very 2011-ish but it does the job.

The external cabling worked for many years and in some ways it has the advantage of fewer bends in the cable which gives fewer places for resistance and more accurate shifts.

Having said that the cables under the bar tape is very neat. Some would say that not having the cables out the side means it is not in the way of your hands but I never really found the Shimano cables got in the way, besides now with the Campagnolo I have a shift lever poking out the side of the shifter. I do like the cleaner lines of the hidden cables but it is not a deal breaker for me. The Campagnolo shifter is a better shape though, much more like the brake levers of pre STI days which is a bonus for us old bastards.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by DBourne

Ultegra pedals on campag cranks! Don't let the "purists" see you!!!

I've never used campag stuff. What are the differences in feel and operation, compared to Shimano?

You are a bad person, now you have me thinking of new pedals. Not because of the Campagnolo Purist thing but just because now I am looking at something lighter and better.

I won't go Looks as they are hard to clip into and they tend to squeak a lot when the cleats get any wear.

Seriously looking at Speedplay though as they have good weight and their float system seems to be the best around.

[GTpilot]

I have speedplay zeros (chrome) after having clip in and comfort issues with the Shimanos.
Love them,They are awesome. clip in, is a cinch, basically just put your foot down and start peddling. and no issues with that dead foot feeling either.
Float adjustment is also good. They come with adapters as well if your shoes are 3 bolt pattern.
I'd recommend some loctite on the threads when you get them set up though.

I'm going to get a second set for the B-bike. Merlin seem the cheapest thus far.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by GTpilot

I have speedplay zeros (chrome) after having clip in and comfort issues with the Shimanos.
Love them,They are awesome. clip in, is a cinch, basically just put your foot down and start peddling. and no issues with that dead foot feeling either.
Float adjustment is also good. They come with adapters as well if your shoes are 3 bolt pattern.
I'd recommend some loctite on the threads when you get them set up though.

I'm going to get a second set for the B-bike. Merlin seem the cheapest thus far.

Do you think they will help with hot spots on the fore foot? My Shimano's are better than my old Look's but it would be good if Speedplay were better again.

[NTF6]

Originally Posted by DBourne

Picked up my Defy, for commuting, today.

imageDefy-1 by Dave Bourne, on Flickr

imageDefy-2 by Dave Bourne, on Flickr

I would park that up in my bedroom!!

[jimt3te50]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Do you think they will help with hot spots on the fore foot? My Shimano's are better than my old Look's but it would be good if Speedplay were better again.

Speedplays are the worst for hot spots. I've tried every set of pedals and ended up with the Garmin Vectors, which are pretty much Look Keos and have found them the best for load over the forefoot, personally. The speedplays are good for getting in and out of the stack height is nice and low, which is great but the cleats fill up with crap when you walk around too and make them hard to get in and out of.

I have a set of the Speedplay Zero's if anyone just wants to try them out

[DBourne]

Originally Posted by NTF6

I would park that up in my bedroom!!

Thanks mate. I think the propel kills it in the looks department, but definitely looks better in person than I thought it would..

Originally Posted by geckoGT

That is a very nice commuter, what do you think of the disc brakes?

I think they need more use before they are run in, so I'll reserve my proper opinion on them until then.

However, they work fine, and I'm glad to know if it rains that I'll have the same stopping power, rather than just praying I slow down.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by jimt3te50

Speedplays are the worst for hot spots. I've tried every set of pedals and ended up with the Garmin Vectors, which are pretty much Look Keos and have found them the best for load over the forefoot, personally. The speedplays are good for getting in and out of the stack height is nice and low, which is great but the cleats fill up with crap when you walk around too and make them hard to get in and out of.

I have a set of the Speedplay Zero's if anyone just wants to try them out

Your comments about the difference in power between your legs has me thinking of trying the Garmin Vectors mate. I thought they were on the way to being discontinued or something because they had not been a success?

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by DBourne

Picked up my Defy, for commuting, today.

imageDefy-1 by Dave Bourne, on Flickr

imageDefy-2 by Dave Bourne, on Flickr

I have a 2014 Defy Advanced 0 and have been pretty happy with it. I would like to replace it with a 2016 Defy SL in a perfect world.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by jimt3te50

Speedplays are the worst for hot spots. I've tried every set of pedals and ended up with the Garmin Vectors, which are pretty much Look Keos and have found them the best for load over the forefoot, personally. The speedplays are good for getting in and out of the stack height is nice and low, which is great but the cleats fill up with crap when you walk around too and make them hard to get in and out of.

I have a set of the Speedplay Zero's if anyone just wants to try them out

Interesting, I found the Looks were worse for hot spots and the Shimano's I have are a bit better. I Have Specialised S Works shoes which are the stiffest they have but I still find pedals with a bit more cleat surface area work better in spreading the load. That is why I am thinking Speedplay may be worth a go as they have a pretty large cleat area.

[Syndrome]

Yesterday I heard a new term - mashing or pedal mash - and that it is bad for the knees. Anybody care to explain to me what this is?

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Yesterday I heard a new term - mashing or pedal mash - and that it is bad for the knees. Anybody care to explain to me what this is?

This term I have heard of being used when you exert almost your entire energy pushing down on the pedals rather than pedaling in an elliptic motion, meaning you are using energy not only to push down, but also to pull back and upward too.

Using the example of scraping mud off the bottom of your shoe is the best way to describe the correct pedal motion and therefore reducing the stress on your knees and engaging different muscle groups to take the strain.

It also relieves your quads a bit more allowing you to spin more freely and not blow out your quads prematurely.

[GTpilot]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Interesting, I found the Looks were worse for hot spots and the Shimano's I have are a bit better. I Have Specialised S Works shoes which are the stiffest they have but I still find pedals with a bit more cleat surface area work better in spreading the load. That is why I am thinking Speedplay may be worth a go as they have a pretty large cleat area.

Whilst pedal types can be a factor due to individuality, the two single most causes of hot spots are clear position and shoe size and tightness.
Cycling shoes also tend to have a lack of cushioning as well. Decent insoles and loosening the forefoot straps will go a long way towards fixing hot spots.
Make sure your cleats are positioned in such a way the pedal spindle is across the widest part of the ball of your foot.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by GTpilot

Whilst pedal types can be a factor due to individuality, the two single most causes of hot spots are clear position and shoe size and tightness.
Cycling shoes also tend to have a lack of cushioning as well. Decent insoles and loosening the forefoot straps will go a long way towards fixing hot spots.
Make sure your cleats are positioned in such a way the pedal spindle is across the widest part of the ball of your foot.

True, there is no single fix for this problem. I have no doubt that my issue is caused greatly because I have bashed the crap out of my feet for many years. I got some improvement switching to shimano pedals which I put down to a slightly larger cleat. The I got further improvement switching from my old shimano shoes to the S works. I got a further improvement switching to the inner sole with more arch support. What I have now is workable but I could sure do with a further improvement to be comfortable.

Do you have a suggestion for the insole?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by blueoval

This term I have heard of being used when you exert almost your entire energy pushing down on the pedals rather than pedaling in an elliptic motion, meaning you are using energy not only to push down, but also to pull back and upward too.

Using the example of scraping mud off the bottom of your shoe is the best way to describe the correct pedal motion and therefore reducing the stress on your knees and engaging different muscle groups to take the strain.

It also relieves your quads a bit more allowing you to spin more freely and not blow out your quads prematurely.

its important to undestand pedalling techniques and efficiency, but i've noticed in recent times some studies appearing that suggest concentrating on the downstroke is more beneficial power wise than concentrating on the upstroke. being clipped in eliminates the dead spots in your pedaling cycle, but your quads are more powerful than your hamstrings, so its difficult for the upstroke to actually add any power to the cycle.

i'm not saying one way or the other, just commenting on some articles i've read more recently. not sure if it refers to all cycling, or longer of shorter rides etc. i think pulling up is important, but the bulk of the power is still from the downstroke.

i'll see if i can come across some articles i was reading. a guy at work mentioned team sky were looking in to it as well, but haven't come across that myself.

as a disclaimer, i'd say the articles were focused on professional cycling, where cyclists already have a well sorted 360degree pedaling action.

[Syndrome]

I can't ride with my feet bound to the pedals. Tried it and did not like it. Fell over with my feet still attached to the pedals.

[GTpilot]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

True, there is no single fix for this problem. I have no doubt that my issue is caused greatly because I have bashed the crap out of my feet for many years. I got some improvement switching to shimano pedals which I put down to a slightly larger cleat. The I got further improvement switching from my old shimano shoes to the S works. I got a further improvement switching to the inner sole with more arch support. What I have now is workable but I could sure do with a further improvement to be comfortable.

Do you have a suggestion for the insole?

I recently did a bike fit with a guy in South Melbourne. I was getting hot spots in my left foot usually after about 20k. He adjusted my cleats by marking the base of my big toe on one side of my shoe and the outer most edge on the other. Then joined the marks with a straight edge and set the cleat square in the middle (speedways have a center line scribed in them). This was some 1 cm back from where I had them set originally. He also suggested I pedal with my foot pointing down at around 45° and NOT use the "wipe dog poo of my shoe" stroke method.
We discussed orthotics which he is a distributor of a particular $150 + brand. I have high arches and he showed me how pressing into the arch lowers my toes and softensand increases the flesh under the ball of my foot . Long story short he suggested start with some cheap 1/2 decent foam insoles with a good amount of arch height and go from there.
I picked up a pair of scholl sports (yellow ones) from wollies supermarket for about $16 and placed these my shoes leaving the original ones in there. Amazingly these have worked a treat and along with loosening my shoe off somewhat from how I used to have them cranked up, the problem is gone and with a new pedal stroke I'm finding I'm putting out more power than ever and staying fresher in the legs for longer.
Just gotta loose about 20 odd Kg now.

[GTpilot]

Originally Posted by prydey

its important to undestand pedalling techniques and efficiency, but i've noticed in recent times some studies appearing that suggest concentrating on the downstroke is more beneficial power wise than concentrating on the upstroke. being clipped in eliminates the dead spots in your pedaling cycle, but your quads are more powerful than your hamstrings, so its difficult for the upstroke to actually add any power to the cycle.

i'm not saying one way or the other, just commenting on some articles i've read more recently. not sure if it refers to all cycling, or longer of shorter rides etc. i think pulling up is important, but the bulk of the power is still from the downstroke.

i'll see if i can come across some articles i was reading. a guy at work mentioned team sky were looking in to it as well, but haven't come across that myself.

as a disclaimer, i'd say the articles were focused on professional cycling, where cyclists already have a well sorted 360degree pedaling action.

Seems to fit with what I mentioned above with what a bike fitter suggested pointing my toes more and being clipped in reduced the weight on the bottom of my foot this reduces fatigue and reduces hot spots and sore feet.
He suggested I concentrate on pushing down with pointed toes and kind of picture how conrods press down on a crank shaft with this in mind, ensure my knees only travel up and down vertically and not in a circular motion.
You can still pedal all through the strike and engage the hamstrings on up stroke. Doing this and concentrating has seen my pedal efficiency improve shed loads.