2011 Ford Focus Sport, Transmission Shudders :(

[AG3]

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

Fiesta owners have the same issues and there not making huge power, Powershift it needs a major rethink or go back to using the wet auto as they still use in the diesel.

Actually my question was more on, if the upcoming LZ Focus (which will supposedly get a 1.5 EcoBoost) will get the same torque converter automatic transmission as the 1.5 EcoBoost powered Kuga, Mondeo and USDM Fusion?
I've never heard of a 1.5 EcoBoost being paired to a Powershift, so i'm wondering if this opens up the possibilities for a torque converter automatic option.

I'm hoping that Ford gets rid of the dry clutch Powershift.

[bugmesome]

Originally Posted by AG3

I think the problematic dry clutch Powershift was not designed to handle the torque levels of the 1.5L EcoBoost engine.

From reviews of the Ford Fusion 1.5L EcoBoost, the motor makes 185 lb-ft of torque... i.e. 250 Nm.

The dry-clutch 6DCT250 is, as its name suggests, specced to handle up to 250 Nm.

So. In terms of the engineering it should work. The reliability problems are supposedly fixed with the new revision (on the other hand, they say that every revision). Up to Ford to balance risk vs reward...

[marg99]

sitting on its maximum design limit is not a way to produce longevity in the product

[bugmesome]

Originally Posted by marg99

sitting on its maximum design limit is not a way to produce longevity in the product

I don't necessarily agree. My opinion or yours doesn't matter anyway. Ford can get on the phone to Getrag and figure out what the actual engineering lets them do.

[marg99]

are you now saying the quoted figures for the box were wrong?

[bugmesome]

Originally Posted by marg99

are you now saying the quoted figures for the box were wrong?

No.

Some possibilities:

1. 250 Nm was the launch figure in 2010, recent manufacturing process improvements and real-world experience show the actual limit to be higher
2. 250 Nm is marginal, but if we use these heavy-duty parts then it'll be fine
3. 250 Nm is marginal, we need a torque limiter
4. 250 Nm is OK for short periods, we need a torque limiter that kicks in after n seconds or n degrees C
5. 250 Nm is OK, but service intervals need to be shorter and/or extra procedures at every service
6. Screw Getrag, we're getting our transmission from someone else

We don't know. This is what Ford pays its engineers for...

[marg99]

you have convinced me that I should not buy a car with this transmission as too many complex fixes are needed to try to overcome its basic limitations

[Lewy950]

I did 42000kms in my Focus without any transmission issues.

My dad on the other hand has taken his back 4 times in 35000kms.

[Binny]

Originally Posted by mik

found an interesting video on fiesta/focus clutch shudder repair, the bloke takes you from the clutch assembly sitting on work shop and what is required to get it working right, does not show removal of the clutch assembly from the car , but still well worth a look at how complex this thing is(scary really ) and what is involved, about 34 minutes long.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVJnNPbjjjs

Thanks for the link that was really interesting to watch. He shows and explains the the leaking seals very well.
Its amazing how they fit those two clutches and actuators and everything in such a small space really.

[bugmesome]

Back to the question of the new Focus using PowerShift.

If it's designed by the Germans (like the current Focus), like it or not they will benchmark against Golf. So as long as Volkswagen keeps using DSG, they'll have something comparable in Focus...

If it's designed by the Americans (like Fusion/Mondeo), who knows. They seemed happy to use a regular slushbox in Fusion and Americans prefer that.

[AG3]

Originally Posted by bugmesome

Back to the question of the new Focus using PowerShift.

If it's designed by the Germans (like the current Focus), like it or not they will benchmark against Golf. So as long as Volkswagen keeps using DSG, they'll have something comparable in Focus...

If it's designed by the Americans (like Fusion/Mondeo), who knows. They seemed happy to use a regular slushbox in Fusion and Americans prefer that.

Aside from the Fusion/Mondeo, the Kuga 1.5 EcoBoost also uses a torque converter automatic.

So far i've only seen two transmissions paired with the 1.5 EcoBoost, a manual and a torque converter automatic.
I guess we'll find out in a few months.

VW was smart enough to go with a wet-clutch DCT instead of the (less reliable?) dry-clutch used by the Ford-Getrag Powershift.

[RedChris]

"VW was smart enough to go with a wet-clutch DCT instead of the (less reliable?) dry-clutch used by the Ford-Getrag Powershift." Oh no they weren't, all the lower powered petrol VW Group products use a 7 speed dry clutch DSG and guess what... lots of problems. Clutches, software updates needed and synthetic oil killing the mechatronics unit (latter now fixed). Biggest problems in Golf VI but some Golf VII owners are having clutch issues too. Also affected cars like the Polo, Skoda range, some Audi models...

[harveyr]

Originally Posted by Binny

Thanks for the link that was really interesting to watch. He shows and explains the the leaking seals very well.
Its amazing how they fit those two clutches and actuators and everything in such a small space really.

Amazed how complicated this procedure is, and how precise some aspects of reassenbly are. I wouldn't trust any garage in Tassie to be able to do as proper job on this!

[SpoolMan]

Originally Posted by RedChris

Clutches, software updates needed and synthetic oil killing the mechatronics unit (latter now fixed)..

They recalled all them and swapped the synthetic for mineral oil.
I have 3 work mates who drive a VW Golf..

[mik]

Originally Posted by Binny

Thanks for the link that was really interesting to watch. He shows and explains the the leaking seals very well.
Its amazing how they fit those two clutches and actuators and everything in such a small space really.

Your welcome Binny,

i look at that and i dont like much, dont get me wrong , its clever the way it works and everything, no doubt if its working properly the driving experience is good, ............. but just the thought of some poor bugger in a workshop striking one of these that has not done one before, and if you where to get someone that did not have experience on one of these in a workshop that did not have the factory tools....... its gonna to be a sod of a job and the chances of getting a good repair imo will be less likely .
i might add i watched a clip of an earlier focus getting the clutch assembly out, and before he even touched the clutch just getting the assembly out was a fair bit of work.
i like the keep it simple philosophy.

[Franco Cozzo]

Even wet clutch models have issues, Yellow_Festiva on this forum had an LV with the 6sp DSG behind the diesel and it toasted the trans too.

[mik]

i asked the mechanic on that video what sort of time they get to fix the problem /clutch issue, he said book time is 6 hours.
i suspect a lot of workshops might take more time than that.

[Binny]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Even wet clutch models have issues, Yellow_Festiva on this forum had an LV with the 6sp DSG behind the diesel and it toasted the trans too.

There isn't a transmission type out there that is completely free from issues.
I wouldn't say that the wet clutch powershift has inherent problems like the dry clutch does. I've seen more issues with the conventional tranny in the MA-MB. The one that is supposed to be sealed and never need servicing

[mik]

Btr 4 speed behind the Falcon is pretty good ...... serviced on time and not abused they are almost bullet proof��.

[martinijosh]

Originally Posted by mik

Btr 4 speed behind the Falcon is pretty good ...... serviced on time and not abused they are almost bullet proof😅.

Unless you intend to use the factory cooling system for it in which case they are less bullet proof than a wet paper bag.

[Nesbit]

Just an fyi to those with clutch issues. I have just had my focus in to get a new clutch and seals and there is a 4-5 week back order on clutches. Apparently Ford have ordered 142 clutches to cover 240+ dealers. Of course i was told this on the day it was booked in to get replaced so i cannot get it fixed until they arrive. Time to off load this piece of **** and get something better.

[SpoolMan]

Originally Posted by Nesbit

Just an fyi to those with clutch issues. I have just had my focus in to get a new clutch and seals and there is a 4-5 week back order on clutches. Apparently Ford have ordered 142 clutches to cover 240+ dealers. Of course i was told this on the day it was booked in to get replaced so i cannot get it fixed until they arrive. Time to off load this piece of **** and get something better.

Its been going on for a long time now, with the only fix is to keep replacing the clutch with the same parts that keeps failing, once your warranty is done your on your own.
I well known Ford dealer in the North are set-up to do 4 clutch changes everyday on the DSG trans.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by martinijosh

Unless you intend to use the factory cooling system for it in which case they are less bullet proof than a wet paper bag.

Meh. BFIISR 7 years strong (with proper radiator maintenance).

Still I would rather spend a few hundred dollars on bypassing the 4sp auto cooling then have to put up with that POS DSC auto.

[Binny]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Meh. BFIISR 7 years strong (with proper radiator maintenance).

Still I would rather spend a few hundred dollars on bypassing the 4sp auto cooling then have to put up with that POS DSC auto.

Meh is a pretty good description for the 4 speed actually.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Binny

Meh is a pretty good description for the 4 speed actually.

Meh is a good description for an auto in general. All boring to me.

[JG33]

Originally Posted by JG33

I received a letter as well, had the shudder problem sorted at 45,000k. It's now done 50,000 and so far so good. I was looking to buy a car in 2 weeks time but now I might wait and see how she goes since we have a couple of extra years.

Well, done over 63,000k's and the shuddering problem is back as well as having a faulty reading on the fuel gauge. Having the issue sorted this week and will be trading it in for another car next week (had enough). It's a toss up between Hyundai Elantra or Mazda 3.

Only way I'll keep the Focus if Ford replaces the transmission with a brand new fluid type auto with a torque convertor.

Otherwise they can jam the DCT up the idiot who came up with the idea.

[Franco Cozzo]

^ Mazda 3 is easily the best small car on the market, look at an SP25 it has the bigger 2.5L engine and it has a 6sp slushbox or 6sp manual.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

^ Mazda 3 is easily the best small car on the market, look at an SP25 it has the bigger 2.5L engine and it has a 6sp slushbox or 6sp manual.

and the biggest seller in the market is?

Best doesn't sell, perceived image does. Hence why Toyota dominate and any poo flung at VW doesn't stick.

[marg99]

Can't let that pass.
Toyota have sales cause their stuff is very reliable but not high tech nor fashionable looking.(message about all this gadgetry if you want reliability ....)
VW had their bad years with the DSG and have not recovered in terms of reliability perception. you would not want to buy a 2010-2013 VW with DSG while they were still trying to get it right

The mazda 3 is built on the same platform as the focus.

[Imolator]

Originally Posted by marg99

The mazda 3 is built on the same platform as the focus.

That was true for the previous generation Mazda 3, the current Mazda 3 is entirely Mazda's own design. In fact Mazda soldiered on for longer on the platform that they shared with Ford.

When Ford released the MK3 LW Focus it was a new design that wasn't shared with Mazda.