FG wagon - what would it have been?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Ford obviously know what they are doing.

finally!

[Falc'man]

A robust 5 seater ute/wagon with solid rear axle with heaps of towing ability and available in diesel, auto, and manual with 5 star Ancrap design... designed in Australia... here's one I prepared earlier FFS.

[prydey]

just to continue the tangent the thread has taken for a bit longer. above shows the sales of the large car segment. vz wagon was stopped in september 07 and ve sportwagon came online in july 08. apart from the odd spike here and there, falcon and commodore have continued to trend the same, so all that money spent developing the sportwagon isn't really increasing overall sales. ford don't make decisions lightly but they have a lot more information at their disposal than what any members on here do and if they say it can't be done, then that is that.

[naddis01]

Prydey, do you feel there will be a sustained spike in Falcon sales now that EcoLpi is online and Ecoboost will be soon?

Here is the current graph.


Falcon is now below Aurion's 07/08 sales figures and I beleive has not cracked 2000 sales for any month this year.

[sbutler]

[quote]The gamble paid off handsomely, with the once-maligned fleet "tool-of-trade" special becoming a serious rival for the ever-popular soft-roader.

Last year, the svelte Sportwagon outsold every soft-roader in the country. This year, wagon sales make up more than a third of total Commodore sales.

And other wagons continue to carve out a healthy niche for themselves; 40 per cent of Subaru Liberty buyers opt for the wagon version, while Mazda's 6 wagon accounts for a quarter of the model's sales.[quote]
Sort of says it all really.

Either way Ford need to make a wagon in 2 models. Fleet, & Sprotswagon to compament the Terratory. win win. In my books.

[prydey]

same could be said for commodore. it is now selling close to what falcon was in 07/08. also, aurion was re released then and you can see it was on a high for a few months before the novelty wore off and it settled back further below falcon.

what the graph highlights is its not a problem that one specific model is having. its the large car segment as a whole. everyone likes to point the finger at falcon but clearly all marques are trending the same.

personally i think they will stay at a much lower level. falcon may revive to around 2000/month, possibly 2500 but thats optimistic. i expect commodore to average around 1000-1500 above falcon. it has done that for years. if you look at how the small and mid cars have grown, there is no longer a need for many people to own the large family car. air travel is dirt cheap so while many still travel with the family, the number that do it in large sedans is reduced substantially.

i'm no expert. i'm just not a doom and gloom person. i prefer to look at the much larger picture.

[Spanrz]

An old boss of mine (MD), use to quote "You can't sell from an empty wheel barrow".
If you don't have a product on the shelf, how can you sell it?

Originally Posted by prydey

image
apart from the odd spike here and there, falcon and commodore have continued to trend the same, so all that money spent developing the sportwagon isn't really increasing overall sales.

Industry size has decreased from a decade ago. The trend shows a different logic of customer needs/wants (from then to now).
Now is it (the graph) dictated by customer needs or is it dictated by Car Companies not offering what they used to?
Each of these avenues will affect the trend greatly. It could have been both concepts added together that buggered the trend.
It's how we all interpret that graph, but also what did change the trend.

Most probably a lot of to do with Oil Price, couple that with selling/marketing changes and car design/model changes with the spice of car buyer "new age mentality" attitudes of buying cars.
We don't simply buy cars anymore, just by the outside, like we did back in the 60's and 70's. We also want the inside to justify the price as well.

Everything is "green" marketed. The car market is in adjustment (correction) mode for a few more years still until someone comes along and designs something "revolutionary".
The FG Wagon, would have to be just that, revolutionary! Or moreso, 3-5 steps ahead of the current model of VE Wagon. How do you make a car like that?

[TMC]

I think many things external to the car industry have affected car sales. The GFC back in 08 changed the playing field a great deal. The market before the GFC was fueled by optimism and many had investment properties and investments which were supposed to be heading up and up forever. In that environment people are more carefree with their money and buying a new car is a right of passage. Since then, market optimism has taken a plunge and although it has sort of recovered a bit, it hasn't recovered to pre GFC levels, so people aren't spending. Also those closer to retirement age who will be planning trips around Australia and joining the Grey brigade (those who would consider a new Territory for example) have had poorly performing superannuation. So many people would like a new car, Ford, whatever, but just don't have the cash or confidence to take on a new car loan in a shaky world economy. General retail has been hurting for ages. The result for the car industry is that people are buying second hand rather than new more than they likely have done before. I don't know how the car industry and Ford will get around this.

So in regards to Falcon and Falcon wagons, they are very popular modes of transport, and their are heaps on the roads everywhere in Australia, but the new car market is depressed and so new car sales may look woeful. But people aren't spending money like they did back in 05-07. If they do buy a new car it would likely be a small car, or a Korean car. :(

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by TMC

I think many things external to the car industry have affected car sales. The GFC back in 08 changed the playing field a great deal. The market before the GFC was fueled by optimism and many had investment properties and investments which were supposed to be heading up and up forever. In that environment people are more carefree with their money and buying a new car is a right of passage. Since then, market optimism has taken a plunge and although it has sort of recovered a bit, it hasn't recovered to pre GFC levels, so people aren't spending. Also those closer to retirement age who will be planning trips around Australia and joining the Grey brigade (those who would consider a new Territory for example) have had poorly performing superannuation. So many people would like a new car, Ford, whatever, but just don't have the cash or confidence to take on a new car loan in a shaky world economy. General retail has been hurting for ages. The result for the car industry is that people are buying second hand rather than new more than they likely have done before. I don't know how the car industry and Ford will get around this.

So in regards to Falcon and Falcon wagons, they are very popular modes of transport, and their are heaps on the roads everywhere in Australia, but the new car market is depressed and so new car sales may look woeful. But people aren't spending money like they did back in 05-07. If they do buy a new car it would likely be a small car, or a Korean car. :(

But car sales haven't really dropped off at all, maybe 1 or 2%, it will still be up around 1 million sales so what your saying makes no sense.

Unless people are buying cheaper cars, which hasn't really happened either, as the SUV market has continued to rise as has luxury cars and luxury SUV's.

If anything I think, from memory, small car sales have dropped a little this year.

I guess we'll know for sure over the next week as the total 2011 car sales figures come in.

[prydey]

you only need to look at the range of models from each manufacturer to know where all the sales are going.

there has never been so much choice on offer. there is a type of vehicle to suit every possible lifestyle.

[FalconXV]

Sorry to exhume this rotting cadaver but I understand this got to advanced stages design-wise and the Fairlane. Did anybody see it?

[Hawkeye84]

Rough as guts, but heres my interpretation of a G6E Turbo wagon

[FalconXV]

That looks awesome!! but I feel as though it would have used the AU-BF floor pan and wheelbase just with a reskin

[nuthin' fancy]

Ford would never have produced a design so integrated in the cargo space.

Look at how the cargo window is separated from the passenger cabin and the clunky design of the C pillar.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by nuthin' fancy

Ford would never have produced a design so integrated in the cargo space.

thats because Ford build practical cars with spaces you can actually use.

they did build a FG wagon. They called it SZ Territory.

[SumoDog68]

SUV is not a wagon replacement for wagon and driving enthusiasts . General public did fall for it though.

[nuthin' fancy]

Originally Posted by prydey

thats because Ford build practical cars with spaces you can actually use.

they did build a FG wagon. They called it SZ Territory.

But the later wagons looked rubbish. A Hyundai Iload is practical but I'll be damned if I'll drive one.

Sent from my SM-N920I using Tapatalk

[Trump]

Originally Posted by FalconXV

Sorry to exhume this rotting cadaver but I understand this got to advanced stages design-wise and the Fairlane. Did anybody see it?

Probably in the archival stuff that will end up in the US, never to be seen again.

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by Trump

Probably in the archival stuff that will end up in the US, never to be seen again.

Yes, why are they taking away this stuff to be hidden from us?

[Trump]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Yes, why are they taking away this stuff to be hidden from us?

It is Ford Motor Company IP, they don't care for sentimentality at HQ in Detroit.

[FalconXV]

Excuse crudeness of drawing but this proposal maintains BF floorpan and wheelbase, with slightly different sheetmetal. Seperate C-pillar is gone and sedan taillights used to end the commercial vehicle feel. Feasible idea I feel.

[Hawkeye84]

Ok feedback was that ford wouldnt have done a cohesive design as my photoshop.

So heres another rough one using territory design cues with the FGX - Its based off the SWB G6E - but you get the picture if it was a LWB

[b0son]

Ford drove buyers into the VE Sportwagon. Buyers simply weren't willing to keep paying for an EA that was way past its prime.

Don't tell me there was no market for wagons, I see Sportwagons everywhere.

[Hawkeye84]

FG version

[prydey]

Originally Posted by b0son

Ford drove buyers into the VE Sportwagon. Buyers simply weren't willing to keep paying for an EA that was way past its prime.

Don't tell me there was no market for wagons, I see Sportwagons everywhere.

In case you haven't noticed, we no longer make cars here so wagon or no wagon, it made no difference. The days off orphan cars for one market are long gone and with most marques building mega factories in cheap labour countries its unlikely manufacturing will ever return.

At the end of the day it always comes down to return on investment and it just wasn't viable to keep tipping money in to a dead duck. If you look at how Ford have transformed themselves over the last few years its hard to be critical. Who would have thought they'd be selling the most popular vehicle in the country two years ago?

[b0son]

Originally Posted by prydey

In case you haven't noticed, we no longer make cars here so wagon or no wagon, it made no difference.

So it was an inspired decision? That's an interesting spin. FG came out how long ago? And its not as if the BF wagon was all new, they had plenty of time to develop a wagon for FG, and at a time they still had money. But they tried flogging a tired platform in the BA/BF, killed their own market, then said customers didn't want wagons, when really customers just didn't want THEIR wagon.

Who would have thought they'd be selling the most popular vehicle in the country two years ago?

Can Ford Aus really take much of the credit for that? If they're so good at selling, why are they dead in almost every other segment? when the love affair with utes inevitably dies, what then?

[commodorenutt]

If there was a decent Aussie market at the time for niche models, Holden would have continued the Adventra, 1-tonner, Crewman etc into VE, instead of letting the myriad of niche models die off with the VZ. Especially since the VE design allowed for AWD, so it would have been less work than Ford Oz had to do to create the Territory.

Car makers are always looking 5-10-20 years ahead, trying to predict market trends. Ford Oz may have made a number of errors in these predictions, but not funding an FG wagon was the right decision (sadly, as I'd like one).

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by b0son

Can Ford Aus really take much of the credit for that? If they're so good at selling, why are they dead in almost every other segment? when the love affair with utes inevitably dies, what then?

So having the number one 4x4 ute and sportscar, and number 2 medium car is dead in almost every category is it?

The only things that don't sell are the about to be replaced Fiesta and the Focus. Everest is improving month on month, and Edge will be here early next year. Transit sales have taken a big jump after an auto was introduced too.

Things aren't as bad as what some people make out.

After Falcon and Territory sales have stopped Ford sales have only dropped a few percent. That's a remarkable achievement with nothing to replace the Territory available atm. Once the Edge arrives it will pick up that slack.

[Mercury Bullet]

A bit off topic but in response to bossxr8, I'm starting to see a lot of Everest in the bush and they are replacing prados.
Titanium being the most popular by far.
I didn't think it would happen, but there's a noticeable change out here.

BIL has an au wagon, I'm surprised how versatile that thing is. Best part about it is the live axle.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

A bit off topic but in response to bossxr8, I'm starting to see a lot of Everest in the bush and they are replacing prados.
Titanium being the most popular by far.
I didn't think it would happen, but there's a noticeable change out here.

BIL has an au wagon, I'm surprised how versatile that thing is. Best part about it is the live axle.

It was always going to be a slow burn introducing a new nameplate. And the Prado is a fleet whore that the mining companies love. So it was never going to outsell it right off the bat. It will take a couple of years to build. But Ford are advertising the hell out of it, and it would be a very profitable vehicle considering it's mostly Trend and Titanium sales mix. Improving sales month on month shows it's building.