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27-02-2012, 08:20 PM | #241 | |||
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Unfortunately....he would have been better off getting solar panels to that same amount and using a run of the mill electric storage hot water system. With far less greenhouse gas emmissions than his dirty woodfired heating arrangement. There are places where you ned to put a catalyctic converter onto a wood heater now....and flue water jackets are illegal due to cooling smoke gasses and thereby incomplete combustion. Is that a gas system on the roof? Betcha the pilot light keeps blowing out on stormy nights..? |
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27-02-2012, 08:25 PM | #242 | ||
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yeah! I wondered about that pesky pilot light,.....neighbours used to go out when the main burner shut off pain in the bum to relight in the dark, well used to be anyway
also with the meter running backwards.....not all of them, mate of mine had his solar array input added to his bill instead of deducting from it.....don't know what happened but he wasn't happy soon got himself a smart meter
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--------------------------------------------------------------- G'day....I'm Dave, ...everyone calls me Poppa,..05.. B.A. Fairmont mark II... may your day's be filled with smiles, your life be filled with love, may your children know nothing but happiness and joy, cherish the memory of those who strove before us for they cleared the way, spare a thought for those who serve we owe so much to so many, life and the freedom to enjoy it is a special gift that can be taken away far too soon! |
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27-02-2012, 08:40 PM | #243 | ||
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you will never get in front.. no profiteering in SA..
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/s...-1226282054572 |
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27-02-2012, 09:36 PM | #244 | ||
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no but you can stop the power bills!
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--------------------------------------------------------------- G'day....I'm Dave, ...everyone calls me Poppa,..05.. B.A. Fairmont mark II... may your day's be filled with smiles, your life be filled with love, may your children know nothing but happiness and joy, cherish the memory of those who strove before us for they cleared the way, spare a thought for those who serve we owe so much to so many, life and the freedom to enjoy it is a special gift that can be taken away far too soon! |
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27-02-2012, 11:55 PM | #245 | ||
Starter Motor
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4
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i went solar about a year ago . i got the power and hot water done and my bills actually went up.
ive never paid more that about $280 - $300 since ive been living where i am and as soom as i got the solar hooked up my first bill was $501 and the next was $535 . i had a sparky check it out and it is all working correctly so i dont know what is using all the power on me . has anyone else had a similar problem ? |
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28-02-2012, 12:38 AM | #246 | |||
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Yes mate...you have been scammed. I bet you have a 1kw setup? And you signed up on a contract for a grid feed....but your peak rate went from something like 17c a kw to 27c a kw? Guess what? You aren't exporting anything cause your ambient level of power usage exceeds what your panels put out. (you have more turned on than you are producing and it's getting sucked up by your appliances) Also bet you your 1KW system puts out about 4 kw a day but you use about 25kw a day...? That also means the excesss is purchased off the grid at the 27c rate instead of 17c. Rule of thumb....Don't get a 1 kw system if you have people staying at home all day....MIMIMUM 3KW.... |
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28-02-2012, 12:42 AM | #247 | ||
Starter Motor
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4
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thanks Z80 i had no idea . what if i were to get more panels put on the roof , would that bring it up to a 3 kw system or have i got the wrong end of the stick ?
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28-02-2012, 07:57 AM | #248 | |||
LIFELONG DJR SUPPORTER
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Welcome Glenno1. Output is dependant upon the number of, and output of, the panels, and the size of the inverter.
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28-02-2012, 10:15 AM | #249 | |||
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unless you had the same company hook your solar up that provides your power your tariffs cannot change.....you should be paying less now than before......solar installers cannot increase your charges if you have the slightest inkling that this may be the case ring your power supplier granted a small system will not feed a great deal into the grid but it definitely will NOT increase your account without some external force get the installers or salesman back to check the system and seek advice from consumer affairs if the installers state that everything is fine and working as it should have you any idea of the amount of kilowatts you averaged per day before the array install (have a look on your old power bills) what are you using now......what is the difference do you have a smart meter, if not is the infeed making the meter run backward or is it adding the input generated power on ......thus increasing your daily usage something is definitely wrong here!......don't leave it at that
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--------------------------------------------------------------- G'day....I'm Dave, ...everyone calls me Poppa,..05.. B.A. Fairmont mark II... may your day's be filled with smiles, your life be filled with love, may your children know nothing but happiness and joy, cherish the memory of those who strove before us for they cleared the way, spare a thought for those who serve we owe so much to so many, life and the freedom to enjoy it is a special gift that can be taken away far too soon! Last edited by poppa smurf; 28-02-2012 at 10:36 AM. |
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28-02-2012, 10:17 AM | #250 | |||
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Quote:
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--------------------------------------------------------------- G'day....I'm Dave, ...everyone calls me Poppa,..05.. B.A. Fairmont mark II... may your day's be filled with smiles, your life be filled with love, may your children know nothing but happiness and joy, cherish the memory of those who strove before us for they cleared the way, spare a thought for those who serve we owe so much to so many, life and the freedom to enjoy it is a special gift that can be taken away far too soon! |
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28-02-2012, 10:45 AM | #251 | |||
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As for the flue water jackets, they are not illegal if the correct jacket is used; an used in conjunction with a product such as a smart burn. That is a continuous flow gas booster on the roof, and it does not have a pilot light because it has an electronic spark, same with all solar gas boosters. The reason the gas booster was on the roof was it was closer to the hot outlet on the tank. When you have a large distance between the hot outlet on the tank and the gas booster, then you have the problem of cooling water in the pipes between the tank and booster. That means that even in summer, when you turn on a hot tap, the gas booster will have cold water flow into it, and it will switch on, no matter how hot the water in the tank is. That is also why you see gas boosters mounted on the side of the split systems, because there is almost immediate hot water into the booster and no gas consumed when it is not necessary. There are some notable mistakes with the legislation from the PIC (Plumbing Industry Commission) about water heaters, with coincidentally are prejudice against solar water heaters. Notably, lasts year legislation was passed that all water heaters, be it solar, electric or gas, must heat water to a temperature of 70 degrees to destroy legionella. The reason is because Legionella is killed after 13 seconds in a temperature of 60 degrees, and for some homes with a continuous flow, it is not at 60 degrees for 13 seconds. At 70 degrees, it is killed instantly. However, Legionella is an airborne disease, and the only area in the home where Legionella has EVER been found is in the shower head in your home, because after a shower water sits in the shower head and is exposed to the air underneath it. The contradiction is that to prevent scalding, Legislation states that all homes must have a tempering valve set to 50 degrees in bathrooms to prevent scalding!! This means that you pay for heating water to 70 degrees to destroy Legionella, and then the water is cooled down again in the bathroom, where Legionella can survive and has been found! Rebates for solar hot water dropped when this happened, because they were re-tested for boosting to 70 degrees instead of 60, and their efficiency dropped because you were boosting more. Unfortunately, there are so many excuses that people find not to install solar hot water, but everyone will have to go solar hot water eventually. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, electric hot waters will not be available to purchase brand new in the future, and soon after that, gas hot water will not be available to buy new in the future, and the only option will be solar. However, by that time, that cost will be much higher than it is now because the government won't have to give incentives, you'll only be able to buy solar anyway!
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28-02-2012, 11:42 AM | #252 | ||
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I was advised by my plumber to go "on call" gas water heating but I was very much put off because of the pilot light issue, are they now all electronic, if so that is very good news........didn't think much of the old pilot
I reckon I may still go solar hot water after I sort out how much I am in front with my solar array origin have deals that can be paid off interest free by my solar credits the system will cost me nothing.....well in theory anyway I was told long ago by someone in the know that to replace the carbon offset in one mature gum tree would take the equal of 250,000 newly planted trees just a little bit of trivia that sticks every now and then mate that 70 degrees.......is that measured "at tap" or in heater
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--------------------------------------------------------------- G'day....I'm Dave, ...everyone calls me Poppa,..05.. B.A. Fairmont mark II... may your day's be filled with smiles, your life be filled with love, may your children know nothing but happiness and joy, cherish the memory of those who strove before us for they cleared the way, spare a thought for those who serve we owe so much to so many, life and the freedom to enjoy it is a special gift that can be taken away far too soon! |
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28-02-2012, 11:46 AM | #253 | |||
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If you go solar hot water, you'll want to ask Origin what brand of solar hot water they are using. If they are using Chromagen, I would steer clear of it. As for the 70 degrees, that is measured in the tank. It is for all new installations though, so yours will most likely be measuring 60 degrees in the tank if it is over 6 months old
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28-02-2012, 11:47 AM | #254 | |||
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Yep...more panels is the key. Be careful of advice on online forums though...it is generalistic advice, your circumstances may be different. It's not the solar installer that is the problem with your tarriffs ...it is the electricity supplier. basically you can't say to them that you want to be paid a premium for putting nice clean/green power onto their grid. and then say that any power you buy back should be dirty coal power. no-nono...they make you buy green power back off the grid for any excess you use...and of course cause you are making 2 tenths of stuff all with a 1KW system...you are almost 75% excess....LOL That's why you are paying a higher tarriff. |
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28-02-2012, 11:57 AM | #255 | ||||||
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A bit hard to put solar hot water on a 37th floor apartment or a terrace house in the shade in inner city melbourne.... Quote:
Rebates stifle competition and encourage price fixing. Prices usually go up by the exact amount that the rebate amounts to. Solar panels, LPG conversions, solar hot water,roof insulation...all the same. |
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28-02-2012, 12:02 PM | #256 | |||
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where is the proof of such a wildly inaccurate statement.....I have all relevant contracts and documents from my supplier and installer and nowhere on any of them does it show that I MUST sign up for or agree to or participate in any green energy schemes at a higher cost.....I nor anyone I know was MADE to do anything by either the solar installers nor my energy suppliers I also made 3 quick phone calls to solar suppliers and queried this with them....none had ever heard of, nor would think of doing anything like this, nor could they, as they stated they do not and cannot regulate or change a suppliers price index with a client, they also asked who was making such litigious statements about the industry this practice would be highly illegal! and i think would be defended in a court of law green energy is something we choose to either participate in or we don't it's not why your bill is higher.....you have a problem somewhere! ring your supplier and check your account for increased tariffs! tell your installer about what is going on DO NOT PUT MORE PANELS ON.......this could be the reason why you are showing higher usage. in fact I would disconnect the panels i had up there already until this problem is sorted sort it out through your electricity supplier (cost of tariff compared to same time last year) speak to your solar array installer or supplier as to why your bill is higher than before and what needs to be done to correct it! and i agree, be very careful about online advice, ..particularly those that are proven to be merely seeking to create trouble!
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--------------------------------------------------------------- G'day....I'm Dave, ...everyone calls me Poppa,..05.. B.A. Fairmont mark II... may your day's be filled with smiles, your life be filled with love, may your children know nothing but happiness and joy, cherish the memory of those who strove before us for they cleared the way, spare a thought for those who serve we owe so much to so many, life and the freedom to enjoy it is a special gift that can be taken away far too soon! Last edited by poppa smurf; 28-02-2012 at 12:27 PM. |
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28-02-2012, 12:57 PM | #257 | |||
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they supply a Dux Sunpro MP15, gas boosted unit.......I didn't ask about the size but price installed is $6,400....and they will accept solar credits as a "payment option"....seems a lot to me but it means it would, in theory, cost me not one single brass razooo!!! what's your highly knowledgable and valued thoughts on this unit and price! as i say I know less than nothing about these units! I'm not sure about my rebates and credits, I reckon I would have used them up on my array???
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--------------------------------------------------------------- G'day....I'm Dave, ...everyone calls me Poppa,..05.. B.A. Fairmont mark II... may your day's be filled with smiles, your life be filled with love, may your children know nothing but happiness and joy, cherish the memory of those who strove before us for they cleared the way, spare a thought for those who serve we owe so much to so many, life and the freedom to enjoy it is a special gift that can be taken away far too soon! |
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28-02-2012, 01:08 PM | #258 | ||
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Ahhhh, the Dux MP15....
It's a unit with 5 sensors along the height of the tank using the Hot Logic temperature controller... The top 62 litres is continually maintained at 70 degrees throughout the year, instead of the full 315 litres, because it burns less gas that way. Also the only gas boosted system available in Australia that uses 44mj/hr gas, meaning there is no need for a gas pipe upgrade. In Adelaide it qualifies for 35 STC's with 2 panels, and 44 STC's with 3 panels... If I were you I would jump on the MP15 straight away, but not through Origin. You see, Origin have a deal with Dux currently that states only Origin can supply the MP15 315 litre system anywhere in Australia, although other sub dealers can sell the MP15 250 litre system. Dux has been a little bit cheeky, and has been invoicing resellers for the 250 litre system, and supplying them with the 315 system. Until June (I think it is), any other dealer selling Dux in Australia is buying the 315 litre at the same price as the 250 litre, and is able to quote cheaper than Origin. The only catch is, you have to find a dealer in SA who is aware of the MP15 debarkel with Origin!! However it certainly is a good system, it is actually seen as more efficient than an Apricus evacuated tube 3115 litre system with a gas booster, under the eyes of VIPAK, who test the systems efficiency for STC values. I believe it is true, because although a continuous flow only heats the water you use as opposed to heating 62 litres of water at 70 degrees in a tank, the continuous flow uses 199mj/hr where as the in tank only uses 44mj/hr. Just have to keep in mind that if you want the most energy efficient system there is, the more STC's it qualifies for, the more efficient it is!
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28-02-2012, 01:35 PM | #259 | ||
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I just had my gas pipe upgraded to a monster pipe to accommodate the new range so supply would not be a problem......the old bag, er I mean my darling wife, had to have a new kitchen......never satisfied, the old one was a mere 25 years young...don't make things to last these days
okay......more STC'S more efficiency! a bit of a debacle between origin and Dux Hmm!......if I was paying for the system outright I would probably go elsewhere to purchase but seeing as to how I'm not claiming my solar feed in credits as cash, and therefore dodging the "tax" thing I reckon i may just go with Origin price doesn't matter as I wont be handing any cash over if I can believe the Origin salesman I shall await my account with Lumo and see if I make the change to Origin and order the hot water thingy! once again thanks for your invaluable advice!
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--------------------------------------------------------------- G'day....I'm Dave, ...everyone calls me Poppa,..05.. B.A. Fairmont mark II... may your day's be filled with smiles, your life be filled with love, may your children know nothing but happiness and joy, cherish the memory of those who strove before us for they cleared the way, spare a thought for those who serve we owe so much to so many, life and the freedom to enjoy it is a special gift that can be taken away far too soon! |
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28-02-2012, 01:41 PM | #260 | |||||
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Have a good read up mate... http://www.firewood.asn.au/images/st...0emissions.pdf Quote:
http://www.news.com.au/business/auss...-1226226266914 Quote:
Electric hot water replacement involves: - Shutting of the duo (isolation) valve - Connecting a hose pipe to the cold inlet on the tank, draining the tank to a garden, drainpipe or somewhere that it will not be a hazard - Shutting off the element at the switchboard and unplugging from the tank - Using two shifters, loosening the hot, cold & PTR lines from the tank. When installing the new tank, those steps are reversed. Split System Solar hot water replacing an electric involves: All of the above plus: - Running a new copper flow & return to the roof including lagging the pipework - Installing sensors wired to the solar controller on the collector hot outlet, tank hot outlet & cold water inlet - Installation of pump - Bleeding the air out of the collector loop - Installation of 60 degree tempering valve (Tank must be heated to 70 degrees although hot outlet must also not be over 60 degrees still) Plus there is the added cost of the collectors, which with flat plate collectors are full of copper. 7 risers per collector of 1/4 inch pipe on a 2M panel = 14M copper pipe. Trade price @ $35 per meter = $490 copper per panel, plus manufacturing the panel itself, will all bring up the cost. Normal water heaters do not have a solar pump or controller either, which is an added cost. The price is higher for a reason, there is more installation work, and definitely more componentry. Especially with a gas boosted system, you are essentially purchasing a solar hot water AND a continuous flow gas booster.
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28-02-2012, 01:51 PM | #261 | |||
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You would still get STC's on the system, I'm not sure what state incentives there are in SA but there should be some.
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28-02-2012, 02:08 PM | #262 | ||
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ah! okay, thanks.....I guess Origin will know!
they rang me back and asked if I was going to go ahead with the switch and the install of the solar hot water.......times are tough in the energy sales industry! I'll wait for the account from Lumo and make a decision!.....should have had one by now, they read it on the 12th of this month
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--------------------------------------------------------------- G'day....I'm Dave, ...everyone calls me Poppa,..05.. B.A. Fairmont mark II... may your day's be filled with smiles, your life be filled with love, may your children know nothing but happiness and joy, cherish the memory of those who strove before us for they cleared the way, spare a thought for those who serve we owe so much to so many, life and the freedom to enjoy it is a special gift that can be taken away far too soon! |
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28-02-2012, 06:13 PM | #263 | |||||
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$35 for a metre of 1/4 in pipe? Try Bunnings mate. Quote:
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The price is mainly higher for a simple reason...PROFIT. Biggest problem with solar hot water? It never ever pays for itself. Assuming a 15 year life span it just doesn't add up. BTW...firewood assoc website link ignored (self interest group) Murdoch press NEWS limited website also ignored....its Murdoch... Last edited by z80; 28-02-2012 at 06:20 PM. |
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28-02-2012, 06:21 PM | #264 | |||
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28-02-2012, 06:54 PM | #265 | ||
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only going to get harder......juliar Gillard has axed all solar hot water rebates as of today and effective immediately!
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--------------------------------------------------------------- G'day....I'm Dave, ...everyone calls me Poppa,..05.. B.A. Fairmont mark II... may your day's be filled with smiles, your life be filled with love, may your children know nothing but happiness and joy, cherish the memory of those who strove before us for they cleared the way, spare a thought for those who serve we owe so much to so many, life and the freedom to enjoy it is a special gift that can be taken away far too soon! |
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28-02-2012, 07:39 PM | #266 | ||
Pethy FG XR8 Ute
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bloody ranga ..shoot her now ... lets bring in a carbon tax put stop all the rebates and that on solar and stuff
i would of thought getting people to put as much solar on a house would be great for the enviroment ??? i just dont get it sometimes
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FG XR8 Ute 2010 Nitro, Mods so far: Herrod CAI, headers, Ballistic cats, Cat back Manta dual 2.5" with X pipe and hotdog mid section, Mellings oil pump, Summit racing 60mm twin throttle body, and Yella Terra plenum Powerbond 25% under drives, Sports bar, now fitted with Koya Inox R1's, the rears are 20x10 with a 40mm offset and the fronts are 20x8.5 with a 35mm offset total of 285.5 rwkw and 642nm when Herrod cams in 290rwkw GSXR 750K7 with goodies, dyno'd 136rwhp, 10.567sec for the strip |
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28-02-2012, 07:44 PM | #267 | |||
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28-02-2012, 10:47 PM | #268 | |||
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A business that is modelled on a reliance for govt rebates is unsustainable. Start your own solar hot water business.? (I bet you the boss didn't pay you what he charged you out at) Last edited by z80; 28-02-2012 at 10:53 PM. |
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28-02-2012, 10:51 PM | #269 | |||
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easy... if it comes down to roof space for PV vs hot water i'll take the PV every time. why? cause my hot water is heated at 9c/Kw at night off peak. And the roof space that solar hot water occupies can generate me 66c/kw during the day. simple maths. |
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28-02-2012, 10:52 PM | #270 | |||
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same as the insulation scheme, ignore the positives and focus on the negatives. |
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