Ford Announces New Engine Direction - Page 9

VeloXR6 · 18-07-2007, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

The Duratec was actually designed in Europe.. so apart from being assembled in the US its more Euro than anything.. Co-incidentally it was initially designed by those crazy people at Porsche... also with input from another company you may have heard of... Cosworth ring any bells?

Not really the point .... we are aussies... whaat about the aussie engine ... is it that hard to turn a profit over here ... or is the profit not enough for the US masters ???

XAGSV8 · 18-07-2007, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeloXR6

Well said .... at some stage prople have to say F... profits ... wwhat about the things we like and love ?

Why run a business then? Ford are doing what they need to do to survive, pleasing people at this stage has to take the back foot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeloXR6

is it that hard to turn a profit over here ???

Yes

Perana · 18-07-2007, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeloXR6

Not really the point .... we are aussies... whaat about the aussie engine ... is it that hard to turn a profit over here ... or is the profit not enough for the US masters ???

99% of customers frankly DGAF about what is under the bonnet of their car, that coupled with the lack of business case leeds to the decision has been made. It's not about profit.. its about the brand survival..

The ONLY thing i am annoyed at is the job losses.. and Ford are trying to do the right thing by giving time for employee's to decide what to do, and attempting to reassign them into other areas of the company.

**janddbone** · 18-07-2007, 09:41 PM

My fellow Australians.

Well done for forgetting and neglecting the time and effort Ford of Australia put into giving us a tailor made engine, that makes the Falcon the best car in Australia. An engine that can pull all day every day through hell and high water, for hundreds of thousands of kilometres. With trailer or caravan, uphill and down. With roof rack loaded and the kids and the dog. This was the one basic ingredient that makes a Falcon what it is. An Aussie six! Long live the Barra! At least the second hand ones will be avaliable for the next 30 years!

It is not the governments fault,
It is not Fords fault,
It is the 'Average Australian', that does not exist anymore...

asusdragon · 18-07-2007, 09:41 PM

now is this engine change because of petrol use of the i6 or that it cost ford to much to make per unit??

VeloXR6 · 18-07-2007, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XAGSV8

Why run a business then? Ford are doing what they need to do to survive, pleasing people at this stage has to take the back foot.

I am not discounting that - or really arguing the point - I realise and understand the motivation... I think people who love the I6 really need to be sad that the market has driven this. There is no solution nor is there a way to reverse the decision, what is done is done, however, for ford fans, we should be sad, the 6 competion is and was a foregone conclusion - the V6's could not compete - we had a natural advantage - that will be gone...

As I have said before, I have grown up with these engines and they will be sorely missed - the 250 crossflow was the first engine I learned to rebuild.

I just think this is the beginning of the end of decent motoring ... my kids will never know the joy of motoring as I and you have .... and it is very sad, but unfortunately it is the way of the future.
RIP I6, RIP the joy of driving.....

welcome the world of GPS .......

asusdragon · 18-07-2007, 09:43 PM

[QUOTE=mr_br_johnstone]My fellow Australians.

An engine that can pull all day every day through hell and high water, for hundreds of thousands of kilometres. With trailer or caravan, uphill and down. With roof rack loaded and the kids and the dog. !

QUOTE]

that a great paragraph right there sums up the engine perfectly

Perana · 18-07-2007, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asus_dragonorb

now is this engine change because of petrol use of the i6 or that it cost ford to much to make per unit??

Both.. added to that would be ongoing development costs to bring it up to EuroIV level as well as keeping up with other engines.

mcflux · 18-07-2007, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

99% of customers frankly DGAF about what is under the bonnet of their car, that coupled with the lack of business case leeds to the decision has been made. It's not about profit.. its about the brand survival..

/me pictures fleet buyers rejecting a V6 falcon en masse. Yep, those fleet buyers really care what's under the hood. (regarding the majority of Falcon buyers)

The only time fleet buyers care about what's under the hood is if it's a Hybrid, so they can paste retarded environmental stickers and slogans all over the car for moral superiority. Our council has a Civic hybrid with vinyl graphics of gumleaves and statements like "you're being followed by a HYBRID" and "Greener Tomorrow"... It's like Fast 'n' Furious meets Captain friggen Planet.

VeloXR6 · 18-07-2007, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_br_johnstone

My fellow Australians.

Well done for forgetting and neglecting the time and effort Ford of Australia put into giving us a tailor made engine, that makes the Falcon the best car in Australia. An engine that can pull all day every day through hell and high water, for hundreds of thousands of kilometres. With trailer or caravan, uphill and down. With roof rack loaded and the kids and the dog. This was the one basic ingredient that makes a Falcon what it is. An Aussie six! Long live the Barra! At least the second hand ones will be avaliable for the next 30 years!

It is not the governments fault,
It is not Fords fault,
It is the 'Average Australian', that does not exist anymore...

Well Said .. and Well Spoken...
Oi Oi Oi.....

Paxton · 18-07-2007, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

The Duratec was actually designed in Europe.. so apart from being assembled in the US its more Euro than anything.. Co-incidentally it was initially designed by those crazy people at Porsche... also with input from another company you may have heard of... Cosworth ring any bells?

There is NO WAY you can even dare to compare it to the Buick V6

Don't forget what other 6 Cylinder engine (besides the sensational Boxer Engines) Porsche are responsible for. Can Somebody say Epic?

The V6 will be in a different league to the Wheezotech, and better than we are expecting. I have no doubts that Ford have made a good decision (a heart breaking one), but a good decision none the less. Once the cars are coming down the line with a V6 in them, we will forget all the fuss (and winging, and moaning) that we have carried on with.

rodderz · 18-07-2007, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeloXR6

Well said .... at some stage prople have to say F... profits ... wwhat about the things we like and love ?

Well yes, you're right, you have to keep your customers happy. But, I doubt Ford wouldnt have thought long and hard about this decision. Many people such as yourself have bought a 6cly Falcon based upon the motor layout, but I'm sure that the head honcho's, accountants etc would of weighed up all options about keeping the I6 going vs getting an imported motor. Engineers would of researched and tested the V6, and would now know what they can do with it.

For the sake of 600 jobs in 2010, going to a V6 in this changing world could save that 600 from being a few 1000 if the whole company went under by not capitalising on utilising a worldwide market. People are buying less bigger cars these days, and they have probably forecast that by 2010 and decided to go with the v6 that can be sourced cheaper than keeping a factory operating that only makes engines for the Australian/NZ market.

Who knows by then there could be another factory manufacturing more parts, engines for cars here as well as overseas, getting most or all of the 600 their jobs back. The V6 won't be the only "new" engine by 2010, if plans are still going ahead for that one too.

asusdragon · 18-07-2007, 09:47 PM

so in 10 years ford can bring down the fuel consumption of the big I6 but what 2L/100km i think what would a few more years do even if we were to drop the size down a bit to a 3.8l I6 (just a figure ok not sure if it would work or not), doesnt that mean anything

Van D · 18-07-2007, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeloXR6

A company that still cares about the good things in motoring over profitability.

Over profitability??? Ford isn't profiting anything at the moment!!

After reading more and more of this, I still find it kinda sad that the I6 is going, but i'm getting more and more excited for what's to come.

I mean, a few years back the majority of us Ford guys would still be bagging the crap out of turbo's, now everyone's jumping on the band wagon of the XR6T/Typhoon!

As long as Ford develop the engine enough to make some good numbers, i'll be happy. No one was really happy when they dropped the clevo, but it made them put their heads together even more on the I6, and from that we got a pretty darn good engine in the end. If the I6 had being developed more, earlier on, instead of everyone wanting the easier V8 and jumping straight back into them for power it might be a different story. I'm sure if we give it time the V6 will be a great engine. And if not, maybe they'll build a descent V8 again!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ef_classic

And if i had the money i would snap up a few XR6T Falcons, and do a GTHO type sale in 60 years time.

Kidding right? The XR6T is hardly the GTHO of today, far from it. At most, buying a phoon in 30 years will just be like buying say ,a pacer, nowadays.

#Russ#Es# · 18-07-2007, 09:49 PM

/Rant

To the Falcon doomsayers out there, go and fill up your hot water bottle and go to bed - it has obviously been too much bad news for you today.

Seriously, it was either the death of the I6 or the Falcon dying altogether. Yes, its sad to see the I6 go, but I'm sure Ford AUS have a good engine in line for us.

VeloXR6 · 18-07-2007, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asus_dragonorb

so in 10 years ford can bring down the fuel consumption of the big I6 but what 2L/100km i think what would a few more years do even if we were to drop the size down a bit to a 3.8l I6 (just a figure ok not sure if it would work or not), doesnt that mean anything

Well, I have had 17L/100Km on my XR6 .... but if I cared about fuel economy I would have an LPG or worse a prius...

Perana · 18-07-2007, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paxton

Don't forget what other 6 Cylinder engine (besides the sensational Boxer Engines) Porsche are responsible for. Can Somebody say Epic?

The only difference being that the Duratec was actually destined to be used in a Porsche until they decided to sell it to Ford. The coupled with Deveopment towards the end by Cosworth is enough for me.... Not to mention this was the original 2.5L Duratec V6 from the mid-90's.. its come a long way since then..

The Epica engine as far as I know was never destined for Porsche usage.. that coupled with being co-developed with Daewoo.. well you know the rest! It seems most people think of the Buick V6 when they are think of any V6.. As you say The Duratec will be MUCH better than the Wheezertech!

It is undoubtedly a difficult decision but one that someone had to make...

VeloXR6 · 18-07-2007, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by popinfresh

Over profitability??? Ford isn't profiting anything at the moment!!

After reading more and more of this, I still find it kinda sad that the I6 is going, but i'm getting more and more excited for what's to come.

I mean, a few years back the majority of us Ford guys would still be bagging the crap out of turbo's, now everyone's jumping on the band wagon of the XR6T/Typhoon!

As long as Ford develop the engine enough to make some good numbers, i'll be happy. No one was really happy when they dropped the clevo, but it made them put their heads together even more on the I6, and from that we got a pretty darn good engine in the end. If the I6 had being developed more, earlier on, instead of everyone wanting the easier V8 and jumping straight back into them for power it might be a different story. I'm sure if we give it time the V6 will be a great engine. And if not, maybe they'll build a descent V8 again!

Kidding right? The XR6T is hardly the GTHO of today, far from it. At most, buying a phoon in 30 years will just be like buying say ,a pacer, nowadays.

More like a VN Turbo....

VeloXR6 · 18-07-2007, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeloXR6

More like a VN Turbo....

Which was a Nissan motor anyway

XAGSV8 · 18-07-2007, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeloXR6

I am not discounting that - or really arguing the point - I realise and understand the motivation... I think people who love the I6 really need to be sad that the market has driven this. There is no solution nor is there a way to reverse the decision, what is done is done, however, for ford fans, we should be sad, the 6 competion is and was a foregone conclusion - the V6's could not compete - we had a natural advantage - that will be gone...

As I have said before, I have grown up with these engines and they will be sorely missed - the 250 crossflow was the first engine I learned to rebuild.

I just think this is the beginning of the end of decent motoring ... my kids will never know the joy of motoring as I and you have .... and it is very sad, but unfortunately it is the way of the future.
RIP I6, RIP the joy of driving.....

welcome the world of GPS .......

I see your point as it will be sad to see an Aussie engine leave the market. Like I said it would be better to lose the engine then the Falcon as a whole.

This is not aimed at yourself VeloXR6 but people need to man-up and get over losing the I6 engine, losing the Clevo was a far worse day for blokes around Australia as it meant the end of the V8 until EB. I would be more worried about the Australian car industry as a whole.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeloXR6

More like a VN Turbo....

Sounds like a very rare car.

VeloXR6 · 18-07-2007, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

The only difference being that the Duratec was actually destined to be used in a Porsche until they decided to sell it to Ford. The Epica engine as far as I know was never destined for Porsche usage.. that coupled with being co-developed with Daewoo.. well you know the rest!

Yeah... ummm should we go with this new Bent 6 or just stick with the much more powerfull and high torque HO6 that has been proven for 20 years....

You make it seem like they are stupid,...

asusdragon · 18-07-2007, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeloXR6

Well, I have had 17L/100Km on my XR6 .... but if I cared about fuel economy I would have an LPG or worse a prius...

yeah i get bout 12.5 on my BA xt couldnt really give a s*** , hey if i dont spend it on my car i will spend it on something else, cant take it to the grave with you, but was just giving that as an example

VeloXR6 · 18-07-2007, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XAGSV8

I see your point as it will be sad to see an Aussie engine leave the market. Like I said it would be better to lose the engine then the Falcon as a whole.

This is not aimed at yourself VeloXR6 but people need to man-up and get over losing the I6 engine, losing the Clevo was a far worse day for blokes around Australia as it meant the end of the V8 until EB. I would be more worried about the Australian car industry as a whole.

Sounds like a very rare car.

Yeah - what was I thinking

VeloXR6 · 18-07-2007, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeloXR6

Yeah - what was I thinking

Quite obvious I am not up on my Holdens ... was somewhere around VN I am sure -

ef_classic · 18-07-2007, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by popinfresh

Kidding right? The XR6T is hardly the GTHO of today, far from it.

Time will tell.

Perana · 18-07-2007, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeloXR6

Yeah... ummm should we go with this new Bent 6 or just stick with the much more powerfull and high torque HO6 that has been proven for 20 years....

You make it seem like they are stupid,...

More powerful?!

The 3.7L V6 will have 206kw... thats 16 more than the Barra 190... from 300cc less capacity..

Yes it has less torque but it seems the 3.7 will have close on 370Nm.. thats not a lot less anyway... again from less capacity and more efficiency!

Paxton · 18-07-2007, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeloXR6

Quite obvious I am not up on my Holdens ... was somewhere around VN I am sure -

Somewhat. Try VL.

VN had the Buic.

Perana; Expect the 3.7 to have modifications to get it to compare to the Falcon's I6. I expect 210 Kilowatts, and ~390 Nm. With lower fuel consumption, and Direct Injection, Ford are about to step right into the 21st century.

VeloXR6 · 18-07-2007, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XAGSV8

I see your point as it will be sad to see an Aussie engine leave the market. Like I said it would be better to lose the engine then the Falcon as a whole.

This is not aimed at yourself VeloXR6 but people need to man-up and get over losing the I6 engine, losing the Clevo was a far worse day for blokes around Australia as it meant the end of the V8 until EB. I would be more worried about the Australian car industry as a whole.

Sounds like a very rare car.

I really think the Aussie Car Industry is pretty much roo%^ed once the I6 goes anyway ... its only amount of time ... short time now....

asusdragon · 18-07-2007, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

More powerful?!

The 3.7L V6 will have 206kw... thats 16 more than the Barra 190... from 300cc less capacity..

Yes it has less torque but it seems the 3.7 will have close on 370Nm.. thats not a lot less anyway... again from less capacity and more efficiency!

yeah but what rpm is that torque and power at, and how does the torque curve compare

Van D · 18-07-2007, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asus_dragonorb

yeah that cos all america can design is more cube

Sorry, I missed the part where 3.5L was bigger than 4.0?

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeloXR6

Not really the point .... we are aussies... whaat about the aussie engine ... is it that hard to turn a profit over here ... or is the profit not enough for the US masters ???

Ford are losing money more than anything else, let alone making a good profit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VeloXR6

Well said .... at some stage prople have to say F... profits ... wwhat about the things we like and love ?

So you'd rather keep your I6 for 10-20 more years until Ford Aus goes under than make a change and keep the blue oval going for (hopefully) many more years?