More power for Australia's fastest car

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

http://www.evomagazine.com.au/fpv-v-hsv-stripped-bare/

Have a READ of that and try n tell me that's not the best informative and non biased review that explains things for BOTH sides without displaying anytype of noticeable agenda.

Might not make too much of a difference - but GTS would have had a tighter engine

The FPV GTF had a fraction over 8000km on the odo when we started performance testing, while the HSV was considerably newer with just over 1800km on the odo.

I wonder if the GTS times would improve slightly after a bit of loosening up. I know all my cars were better after after 7- 10K of "bedding in "
Just sayin.........

[Express]

Needs a better driver.

[AussieCJ7]

Originally Posted by Bluey-GT

Might not make too much of a difference - but GTS would have had a tighter engine

The FPV GTF had a fraction over 8000km on the odo when we started performance testing, while the HSV was considerably newer with just over 1800km on the odo.

I wonder if the GTS times would improve slightly after a bit of loosening up. I know all my cars were better after after 7- 10K of "bedding in "
Just sayin.........

Think your splitting hairs with number of klm/s versus times

I would think the biggest gain would come from matching tyres both manufacture and tread design and then next biggest gain auto for both cars as described in the story manual high HP aussie sedans take some skill and practice to launch consitently

[futura]

Originally Posted by Bluey-GT

Might not make too much of a difference - but GTS would have had a tighter engine

The FPV GTF had a fraction over 8000km on the odo when we started performance testing, while the HSV was considerably newer with just over 1800km on the odo.

I wonder if the GTS times would improve slightly after a bit of loosening up. I know all my cars were better after after 7- 10K of "bedding in "
Just sayin.........

One could argue that the best is still to come out of the Miami once it hits over 10,000km. This will mean Slightly faster times again.

[futura]

Also, the tyre condition on the press GTF after 8,000km would not be at its best.

The EVO test results are final.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Bluey-GT

Might not make too much of a difference - but GTS would have had a tighter engine

The FPV GTF had a fraction over 8000km on the odo when we started performance testing, while the HSV was considerably newer with just over 1800km on the odo.

I wonder if the GTS times would improve slightly after a bit of loosening up. I know all my cars were better after after 7- 10K of "bedding in "
Just sayin.........

Yeah that's a totally valid point and gets bought up every time a new car comparo is done....rightly sooo......but as mentioned......tyres and gearboxes are a fair bit more of an issue.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by AussieCJ7

Think your splitting hairs with number of klm/s versus times

I would think the biggest gain would come from matching tyres both manufacture and tread design and then next biggest gain auto for both cars as described in the story manual high HP aussie sedans take some skill and practice to launch consitently

Maybe

In the EVO test there was no mention of traction issues. In fact he made a point of saying that . Go figure....

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Bluey-GT

Maybe

In the EVO test there was no mention of traction issues. In fact he made a point of saying that . Go figure....

I'd say it's clear by his times and his attitude he's not only experienced, but good at launching these cars. A good driver can use a throttle when it's needed if there's less grip.
I'd say skill negated most of the traction issues he may have had. The times prove that to a degree.

Either way there's no denying the pace of BOTH these cars. Exactly where, dare I say it....the unbiased and knowledgable fans expected them to be in reality. Not like those stupid muppets doing auto v manual, or wet tests, dodgy dyno tests, or just plain biased journalism. Unlike the exceptional example above.

[1TUFFUTE]

http://www.carsguide.com.au/car-revi...2#.VZ-YJnDXerU
Check this comparo out for example.(skip to the verdict unless u want a history leason)
Probably has the best pictures I've seen published of both cars tho....they look brilliant here.
Not impressive times are they! I know, different day blah blah...but still!!

[Iggle Piggle]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Either way there's no denying the pace of BOTH these cars. Exactly where, dare I say it....the unbiased and knowledgable fans expected them to be in reality.

Hang on, what? That sounds like you are saying unbiased and knowledgeable fans expect GTS to be ever so slightly faster than GTF. Did I read it wrong?

Originally Posted by futura

Also, the tyre condition on the press GTF after 8,000km would not be at its best...

8000km on a press car - would probably be on its third set of tyres.

[MITCHAY]

After all this time there are so many arguments over car A having more RWKW over car B when car B still (up till now) has won in every performance measure (publicly) that matters.

**** me, if I pay the better part of $100k I prefer the thing to win where it counts. And even then I don't care if it is the winner so long as I enjoy it. Just enjoy both beasts.

[FPV+fteT3]

Being as this is AFF not LS1.com until proven beyond any doubt not on paper or theoretical BS, and in light of recently proven dyno BS from foldn my position on this claim of "fastest car" is as follows…...

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

After all this time there are so many arguments over car A having more RWKW over car B when car B still (up till now) has won in every performance measure (publicly) that matters.

**** me, if I pay the better part of $100k I prefer the thing to win where it counts. And even then I don't care if it is the winner so long as I enjoy it. Just enjoy both beasts.

Don't think you've been paying attention bro.....
Holden has been claiming to have "the most powerful Aussie car"...PROVEN WRONG and arguable the most important stat...who's got the most POWER
Then there's the Holden has "the fastest Australian car".....WRONG. Ford GT335(not even the 351) was clocked at 297kmhr. And from factory it's limited 5klms slower then the Ford.
That's a lot of claiming with nothing to back it up.
THATS the big issue often raised.....and as proven by EVO....when auto v auto is compared for0-100 it's extremely close!
Now throw in the cost of the two cars,the weight difference and the difference in grippy tyres.....there's more that can be argued.

So yeah...if you wanna claim it.....back it up......

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Don't think you've been paying attention bro.....
Holden has been claiming to have "the most powerful Aussie car"...PROVEN WRONG and arguable the most important stat...who's got the most POWER
Then there's the Holden has "the fastest Australian car".....WRONG. Ford GT335(not even the 351) was clocked at 297kmhr. And from factory it's limited 5klms slower then the Ford.
That's a lot of claiming with nothing to back it up.
THATS the big issue often raised.....and as proven by EVO....when auto v auto is compared for0-100 it's extremely close!
Now throw in the cost of the two cars,the weight difference and the difference in grippy tyres.....there's more that can be argued.

So yeah...if you wanna claim it.....back it up......

For whatever reason you still don't get it... Car manufactures rate their cars power at the engine not the rear wheels after driveline losses etc, hence the 430kw GTS being the most powerful made in Australia. Can you name another local car that is rated with more than 430kw?

Until another local car is released with more than 430kw the GTS will keep the title of Australia's most powerful car. As for HSV claiming that the GTS has the highest top speed of any local car, I cant recall seeing such claims. Got some links?

[40RDT]

As for dyno figures what do you guys make of these?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8YtmnufV4E

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

For whatever reason you still don't get it... Car manufactures rate their cars power at the engine not the rear wheels after driveline losses etc, hence the 430kw GTS being the most powerful made in Australia. Can you name another local car that is rated with more than 430kw?

Until another local car is released with more than 430kw the GTS will keep the title of Australia's most powerful car. As for HSV claiming that the GTS has the highest top speed of any local car, I cant recall seeing such claims. Got some links?

I don't get it hey what are you a comedian all of a sudden......
So tell me.......why does EVERYONE do dyno tests to see who is the most powerful. At The recent dyno battle....HSV and ford were both fully aware it was to see who was Australia's most powerful muscle car. Using the lame badge theory is not relevant.(everyone knows how many different combinations of power sapping drivelines there are....hence its measured at RWKWS)

And I never said 'Holden' claims to have the fastest car.....it's what all the media pump out in the local print for the sheep masses to drool over.

You realize two months after that famous dodgy dyno test that showed the GTF351 the most powerful.......admitted by them in their article to great extent......they're now back to flippantly calling the HSV the most powerful car. They did TWO articles......then swept it under the rug and went back to what the masses and majority of Aussies want to hear. They want to sell mags after all.
It's rather funny how many sheep find their way onto a ford forum despite all the facts and evidence basically being spoon fed........

[1TUFFUTE]

As for the more on topic "fastest" title....I appreciate its more a play on words. But as the thread wore on some of us realised and thought it funny that in fact they aren't the fastest. Ford could easily claim that title atm with the two facts mentioned earlier. Fords higher limiter and fords highest official speed test.

Perhaps "quickest" would be a more suitable title for the journos to be throwing around....just sayin!

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

As for dyno figures what do you guys make of these?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8YtmnufV4E

Read the thread.....that's the dyno that got FLAMED to hell.....redone correctly and showed the Ford demolished the HSVs power.

i vote you get a Holden tattoo on your forehead as punishment.....

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

i vote you get a Holden tattoo on your forehead as punishment.....

Don’t stop there.
Go for a discount and both get one together, you could get a Ford tattooed on your rear to signify what the public thinks of them.

I kill myself.

[Iggle Piggle]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

So tell me.......why does EVERYONE do dyno tests to see who is the most powerful. At The recent dyno battle....HSV and ford were both fully aware it was to see who was Australia's most powerful muscle car. Using the lame badge theory is not relevant.(everyone knows how many different combinations of power sapping drivelines there are....hence its measured at RWKWS)

Really must drive you nuts that 99% of Australians don't care for or even understand dynos, and they don't even know about either of those dyno tests; they simply rely on the manufacturer's stated power figure...therefore 99% of Australians will always view the GTS as Australia's most powerful car, no matter how many times you say otherwise on a Ford forum your message will never get out there.

Don't blame the punters, they only have the manufacturer's stated power to go on, and it is not their fault (nor Holden's) that Ford understate their power figure. The uneducated will always think the GTS is Australia's most powerful, and they can be forgiven for thinking so.

Those that understand dynos do understand different combinations of power sapping drivelines, and they also understand the many variables that can see different results on even the same dyno. In fact, those that really understand power (those very talented at making power and making more power) pay more attention to weight vs terminal speed at the end of the quarter as the real measure of power (terminal speed, not ET). Can't see you changing their view either.

End result is no matter how many you throw about you will not change the view of the masses that the GTS is more powerful, so try not to take it too personally and get too worked up about it as it can't be good for your mental health and you leave yourself wide open to be trolled.

When you fire right up I often imagine TJ Hooker writing your posts - dude is just so very intense (and tense) - but I like him as he cannot take a corner without pulling on the handbrake.

[futura]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

As for dyno figures what do you guys make of these?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8YtmnufV4E

It is very clear from this post how ignorant you really are.

You fail to acknowledge the below video.

http://www.wheelsmag.com.au/features...ve-power-test/

Do us all a favour and Watch this video and Tell us all what you think?

I will let this video speak for its shelf.

[futura]

Just for the dummies.

Taken from the wheels magazine article.

On both dynos, the FPV decimated the HSV, producing a peak figure of 323.7kW at Herrod and 343.3kW at Dyno Dynamics. The HSV produced 306.7kW and 322.1kW respectively.

I just want ONE!

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by futura

It is very clear from this post how ignorant you really are.

You fail to acknowledge the below video.

http://www.wheelsmag.com.au/features...ve-power-test/

Do us all a favour and Watch this video and Tell us all what you think?

I will let this video speak for its shelf.

Yeah lol I posted that to see which puppets I could make dance....

I gather from that vid that the GTF can sometimes make more rwkw than the GTS and make less (292rwkw reading in the 2nd test) when the conditions aren't in its favour. Maybe what was going on in the first test?

[futura]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

Yeah lol I posted that to see which puppets I could make dance....

I gather from that vid that the GTF can sometimes make more rwkw than the GTS and make less (292rwkw reading) when the conditions aren't in its favour. Maybe what was going on in the first test?

Not exactly right. The GTF will make more power than the GTS given a fair and even playing field. (Ie. Video 2 of wheels comparison)

Anyway, the sun is shinning outside, MY GTF is calling me.

Catch all you later.

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

As for the more on topic "fastest" title....I appreciate its more a play on words. But as the thread wore on some of us realised and thought it funny that in fact they aren't the fastest. Ford could easily claim that title atm with the two facts mentioned earlier. Fords higher limiter and fords highest official speed test.

Perhaps "quickest" would be a more suitable title for the journos to be throwing around....just sayin!

Fastest = accomplished in relatively little time

So really you could almost use either fastest or quickest, just sayin...

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

Yeah lol I posted that to see which puppets I could make dance....

I gather from that vid that the GTF can sometimes make more rwkw than the GTS and make less (292rwkw reading in the 2nd test) when the conditions aren't in its favour. Maybe what was going on in the first test?

Lol, i was when i saw that you had posted that, i knew it wouldnt take long to get a bite.

Honestly, theres nothing wrong with the GTF being the inferior product if you are prepared to consider the development funding, or lack of, that FPV had to work with. But to listen to a couple of whingers bang on about top speeds and dyno runs and ignore 1/4 mile and track ability to somehow win the argument is embarassing to say the least.
Dont you think its strange that despit every other new modern product being compared around bathurst they havent set up a showdown with these two, is it possible that it might just be a non event and to avoid embarassment have conveniently avoided the subject, Luke Youlden tracked them both and despite what our resident V8sc dude says, he even gave the nod to the GTS by quite a bit, but i guess he must be wrong too.

If you are to honestly compare the two you must factor in all angles, not just focus on the ones that see your team win.
When everything is considered and im talking peak power, torque, driveline strength, rolling acceleration, cornering, 400m sprints, tyre choice, price, etc. etc. the GTS will always come out on top and has done so.
And so it should, its had the most development funding and costs the most.
You get what you pay for.

Thats not saying the GTF isnt a fantastic car, its just not in the same league as the GTS anywhere axcept in the final few revs on a dyno and for 5k's above 250k/hr in the NT.

Now cue the babbling about the financial losses of Holden because i suggested FPV didnt have as much to waste.

[GTP534]

^^^ And here endeth the lesson.

In all seriousness if FPV had developed the GT to the level of the GTS we'd be singing its praises. As you say, for the money (price difference), it should be expected to come out on top. I certainly wouldn't mind one in my garage but I wouldn't sell my R-Spec to make way for it. (If I didn't have the R-Spec I would seriously consider it is what I'm saying.)

I think a lot of the angst, among Ford fans, is that in considering the relative rear wheel kW of the pair the GTS must have significantly more driveline losses than the GTF or maybe doesn't make 430kW, which calls into question the "most powerful" claim.

[shaness8]

The GTS has 430kw @ the flywheel, the LSA has proven it can make these number's in the USA.

Whats does the GTF make?

No one really knows, maybe 404kw this 351kw plus 15% overboost on a good day with 10 dyno runs pick the highest to suit yourself is crap why did they complicate something that should be simple.

[GTP534]

Originally Posted by shaness8

The GTS has 430kw @ the flywheel, the LSA has proven it can make these number's in the USA.

Whats does the GTF make?

No one really knows, maybe 404kw this 351kw plus 15% overboost on a good day with 10 dyno runs pick the highest to suit yourself is crap why did they complicate something that should be simple.

I thought it was 351kW at the flywheel officially, which is what you say the GTS's 430kW must be as it does this in the US.

The US standard must be minus all accessories whereas I'm pretty sure in Australia it's DIN.

So running the 2 cars on the same dyno should be a valid comparison as the 2 engines are rated under different standards.

[Windsor220]

Not that I care about the comparison between the 2 cars but FPV engineers said the GT makes 404kw most of the time. With 26kw under the GTS its interesting the dyno figures.