All things Solar (merged threads)

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by xisled

That sucks Poppa at least you are on a higher rate than the minimum. I guess thats why they can drop it because it is higher than the minimum rate.

(Before 1 October 2011) Retailer 7.6c/kWh SA Powernetworks 44.0c/kWh

that was a negotiated payment which was over and above the other suppliers offer and why I went with Lumo.

however i was not told that they would break the contract and hit me with lower FIT and a higher supply tariff as well as an increase in KW cost all within 6 months of entering into said contract.

it is simply not right that a so called "binding agreement" between two parties can be broken by only one party at a minutes notice.

I will start looking at other suppliers when I get time as well as work out some stand alone costings.

[ebxr8240]

How good is Diamond Energy ??

[ebxr8240]

What do you use at night ?? Lights and T.V etc. I guess the big draw would be cooking ??
The water heater should be hot from sun through the day..
Our motorhome has 12V lights and TV.. Only 120w solar. It keeps batteries 2 X 100 AH batteries.. The other option is stand by generator ?? Or gas cooking ??
12v LED TV's don't use much power..The starting current can be havoc on inverters..

[poppa smurf]

usually the largest draw in a home is air conditioning and is the hardest one to run for any length of time on stand alone.

the energy cost of appliances must be found (usually on a label at the rear of the appliance) and expected usage time calculated in order to determine a system size.

heavy draw items like stoves could be turned to LPG, hot water can be run by solar heating (evacuated tubes or whatever) with perhaps LPG backup.

it all depends on how much you are willing to change or perhaps give up.

once the total expected draw is calculated then a system can be planned to suit that draw giving a reasonable leeway.

we have yet to have a house COMPLETELY running off solar and batteries without a generator backup, apart from one shack whose owner is very frugal to say the least.

but there is heaps of info on the net about going "off grid".

I currently have our caravan able to "sit" comfortably for a week (7 Days) until we run out of water.

we have 2 X 120amp, AGM Batteries that supply 12v TV, LED lights, twin push water pumps, 1 lift pump (2 tanks, one 60 ltr drinking water and one 60 ltr for bathing, washing dishes, can be refilled through an ozone filter system from dams, or creeks), microwave, and 40 ltr engel fridge, using a 2500/5000 watt inverter.

recharged by a 250 watt solar panel mounted flat on the roof.

we have used this system for quite a while now in some very rough and remote areas with great success.

[davenl5l]

Originally Posted by LG17

You blokes who got in on the 44c are sooooo lucky!
Why is it they can't change your feed in tarriff but us poor folk on 8c they can do what they like with?
I assume it's in law somewhere and it would cost them more to get out of it...

im only on .024c still better than.008c though

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by davenl5l

im only on .024c still better than.008c though

Certainly is, wish I had one for one.

[zilo]

30kw of panels,
32x 200AH AGM batteries,
2xSMA 5000TL grid inverters
1x Sunny island controller with battery charging

LPG stove or old school slow combustion wood oven,
Standard electric hot water system (not solar) powered by panels when batteries fully charged by load dump relay,
5 star rated 240v refrigerator,
LED lighting,
Slow combustion wood heater with flue hot water jacket unit,


And that's fully self sufficient solar no generator required.
If it doesn't work? Just add more panels.

[CJR09]

Originally Posted by zilo

30kw of panels,
32x 200AH AGM batteries,
2xSMA 5000TL grid inverters
1x Sunny island controller with battery charging

LPG stove or old school slow combustion wood oven,
Standard electric hot water system (not solar) powered by panels when batteries fully charged by load dump relay,
5 star rated 240v refrigerator,
LED lighting,
Slow combustion wood heater with flue hot water jacket unit,


And that's fully self sufficient solar no generator required.
If it doesn't work? Just add more panels.

is that 30kw peak or accumulated zilo(doing some calcs looks accumulated)? are the batts 12v?

what do you do in mid summer when batteries are charged and water is up to temp - what controls load there-after? is it just a low pressure open vent system so it can just boil away and evaporate if need be?

I am interested to know how you guys get on with those batteries as I would normally spec something like a 1400ah 4v times x amount depending on load and intended dis-charge etc - what was your projected dis-charge on the batts? 40%?

[LG17]

With the newest changes up here we go all the way up from 8c to 9.07c next month but when the carbon tax is repealed we go down to 6.53c.
That's a 28% reduction!
I'll bet you that Ergon don't reduce their prices at the same time!

[zilo]

Originally Posted by CJR09

is that 30kw peak or accumulated zilo(doing some calcs looks accumulated)? are the batts 12v?

what do you do in mid summer when batteries are charged and water is up to temp - what controls load there-after? is it just a low pressure open vent system so it can just boil away and evaporate if need be?

I am interested to know how you guys get on with those batteries as I would normally spec something like a 1400ah 4v times x amount depending on load and intended dis-charge etc - what was your projected dis-charge on the batts? 40%?

30 kw of panels (150 x 200w panels)
Batteries are 12v in multiple parallel 48v strings.
When water is up to temp the thermostat opens and cuts power cause that's the way they work...LOL
Depth of battery discharge is the term used for battery consumption.
The deeper the depth...the quicker the batteries die out....in years
I have chosen 15%...which means 1600ah x .15 = 90a @48v =4.5kw
Of course if we want a big night we can pull 20kw for the evening and still be okay, just not regularly...

(about 10-15 year battery life with AGM with 15% DOD)

But when sun is shining batteries not in use.

So use the washing machine during the day...LOL...
(not at battery night time)

As far as control the Sunny Island is a fantastic piece of kit.
It allows normal inverters to be used fooling them into thinking there is a grid when there isn't...it also charges the batteries.
Also when off grid having more panels than inverter rating is okay because the batteries will not take it all like a coal fired power station would try to.

Hope that's not too confusing as my setup is on an island and will be running a sea water desalinator when the water is hot, the batteries charged and no load in the house....because putting water in a tank is the same as charging a battery...


But hate generators, will have one but only for welding in the far paddock.


Anyway that's my current project well under way.

[CJR09]

Originally Posted by zilo

30 kw of panels (150 x 200w panels)
Batteries are 12v in multiple parallel 48v strings.
When water is up to temp the thermostat opens and cuts power cause that's the way they work...LOL
Depth of battery discharge is the term used for battery consumption.
The deeper the depth...the quicker the batteries die out....in years
I have chosen 15%...which means 1600ah x .15 = 90a @48v =4.5kw
Of course if we want a big night we can pull 20kw for the evening and still be okay, just not regularly...

(about 10-15 year battery life with AGM with 15% DOD)

But when sun is shining batteries not in use.

So use the washing machine during the day...LOL...
(not at battery night time)

As far as control the Sunny Island is a fantastic piece of kit.
It allows normal inverters to be used fooling them into thinking there is a grid when there isn't...it also charges the batteries.
Also when off grid having more panels than inverter rating is okay because the batteries will not take it all like a coal fired power station would try to.

Hope that's not too confusing as my setup is on an island and will be running a sea water desalinator when the water is hot, the batteries charged and no load in the house....because putting water in a tank is the same as charging a battery...


But hate generators, will have one but only for welding in the far paddock.


Anyway that's my current project well under way.

yup makes perfect sense - so generation always has a place to go in order of priority - house, batts, hot water, de-sal

[xisled]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

that was a negotiated payment which was over and above the other suppliers offer and why I went with Lumo.

however i was not told that they would break the contract and hit me with lower FIT and a higher supply tariff as well as an increase in KW cost all within 6 months of entering into said contract.

it is simply not right that a so called "binding agreement" between two parties can be broken by only one party at a minutes notice.

I will start looking at other suppliers when I get time as well as work out some stand alone costings.

If you a actually read your retailer contract, most people do not because it is boring and hard to read. The retailer can change anything they want at any time, the consumer can not do anything. All energy contracts are bull.

Also Lumo is up for sale at the moment and a couple big retailers are looking to buy Lumo.

[poppa smurf]

ah! yes the "fine print" which of course we ALL diligently read and understand, given it is put together by high paid, highly educated lawyers in an effort to confuse and bamboozle, I doubt 10% of consumers would get through the first 2 pages to reveal the "hidden" gems within.

which of course it is designed to do

given all power suppliers use basically the same contract "terms" makes it very difficult to change providers to a more fairer contract, it does not surprise me that many politicians and agencies are looking, or "planning" to look very carefully at the "contract", particularly "early termination fees".

given all power suppliers are "up for sale" as they look for "the next big investment" (gas) then it does not surprise me that Lumo is amongst them.

meanwhile we, the consumers, are having to bear the brunt of our government inept decisions.........I wonder where it will all end.

thousands simply have had their power cut off because of cost, they live in darkness and cold, given a guaranteed yearly price hike more will join the ranks of the unpowered.

now gas is about to skyrocket, heating and cooking will be next to be lost to many.

petrol will soon join the unaffordability ranks if the price hike gets through.

[buggerlugs]

Originally Posted by zilo

30 kw of panels (150 x 200w panels)
Batteries are 12v in multiple parallel 48v strings.
When water is up to temp the thermostat opens and cuts power cause that's the way they work...LOL
Depth of battery discharge is the term used for battery consumption.
The deeper the depth...the quicker the batteries die out....in years
I have chosen 15%...which means 1600ah x .15 = 90a @48v =4.5kw
Of course if we want a big night we can pull 20kw for the evening and still be okay, just not regularly...

(about 10-15 year battery life with AGM with 15% DOD)

But when sun is shining batteries not in use.

So use the washing machine during the day...LOL...
(not at battery night time)

As far as control the Sunny Island is a fantastic piece of kit.
It allows normal inverters to be used fooling them into thinking there is a grid when there isn't...it also charges the batteries.
Also when off grid having more panels than inverter rating is okay because the batteries will not take it all like a coal fired power station would try to.

Hope that's not too confusing as my setup is on an island and will be running a sea water desalinator when the water is hot, the batteries charged and no load in the house....because putting water in a tank is the same as charging a battery...


But hate generators, will have one but only for welding in the far paddock.


Anyway that's my current project well under way.

Can you post photos of set up when done and approx. cost to set up ?

[zilo]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

Can you post photos of set up when done and approx. cost to set up ?

No probs...I'll do it in our other secret thread probably better there


in the meantime have a look at this video...it's my aim to copy bits of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA0msd2ZQWI


It's perfect for linking multiple buildings on a private grid and best part it uses standard grid feed inverters which are really cheap.

Good way for someone and their neighbor(s) to tell the power companies to stick it.....


.

[supershifty]

This fellow is one of the forward thinkers, must be a fountain of knowledge - good on him!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-0...arrabi/5580358

Cheers!

[poppa smurf]

looks like he's living the dream......well done him, I'd love to have a beer and a chat with him.

did you see four corners last night......a lot of info came from there, I have been watching it over on !view trying to absorb all that was stated.

looks like Port Augusta will get the solar thermal power plant, provided Abbott and Hockey stop pandering to the coal companies and renew our RET plans.

[CJR09]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

did you see four corners last night......a lot of info came from there, I have been watching it over on !view trying to absorb all that was stated.

looks like Port Augusta will get the solar thermal power plant, provided Abbott and Hockey stop pandering to the coal companies and renew our RET plans.

have not seen this but got an email from a friend - they uncovered some 500 mil given to power co's to submit consultation on the ret's & denounce renewable tech's?!? sounds like one big rort...

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by CJR09

have not seen this but got an email from a friend - they uncovered some 500 mil given to power co's to submit consultation on the ret's & denounce renewable tech's?!? sounds like one big rort...

the program is worth a look through Iview just to get an idea of what Govco and "big coal" are trying to get away with.

We, as a nation, are laughing stock and will be left way behind as all other nations are going "renewable".

[mik]

laughing stock Poppa, i dont know mate,
i read an article a day or so ago , and they where saying that due to the big uptake in solar in nsw and brizzy, the power demand to the electricity companies has dropped hugely , and it may end up leading to the power companies in those states either shutting up shop or having to charge those that are still using the grid a higher price to keep afloat.
personally im not fussed to much about coal mining, like other fuels as it becomes harder to dig out of the ground and more expensive, the extra cost/lack of profit margin will gradually have the investors chasing other avenues for energy, i doubt it will happen in a day it probably will happen over years and we will adapt something else .
on the other hand i would like to see us saving some resources in case we ever need a five or ten year supply should poo somehow hit the fan.

The thing that has me bewildered is we have so much land here that could be used for wind, solar,etc, even if it cost a little more to implement and upkeep than using other resource based measures to make power. .... it would be worth it surely? not only that, can any one say "creating employment " at a time when we are losing our manufacturing base, these boofheads in govco seem to have not much imagination or forward thinking, that goes for all of the parties .... tree huggers included.

i saw an interesting post some time ago on another forum totally unrelated to power generation, but it got me thinking about lake eyre, here is a fairly big seasonal salt lake that is if im not mistaken is 15 feet below sea level and has a mean depth of one metre, and i could be wrong but, surely it wouldn't take a lot of effort to do something with it for hydro electric? even if it means putting a permanent canal in to give it a daily tidal thing happening? or a molten salt solar array?
we have army core engineers, im probably barking up the wrong tree, but hey the imagination thing, we don't seem to too much happening with our pollies other than more ways to tax us.
sorry for going off topic.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by mik

laughing stock Poppa, i dont know mate,
i read an article a day or so ago , and they where saying that due to the big uptake in solar in nsw and brizzy, the power demand to the electricity companies has dropped hugely , and it may end up leading to the power companies in those states either shutting up shop or having to charge those that are still using the grid a higher price to keep afloat.
personally im not fussed to much about coal mining, like other fuels as it becomes harder to dig out of the ground and more expensive, the extra cost/lack of profit margin will gradually have the investors chasing other avenues for energy, i doubt it will happen in a day it probably will happen over years and we will adapt something else .
on the other hand i would like to see us saving some resources in case we ever need a five or ten year supply should poo somehow hit the fan.

The thing that has me bewildered is we have so much land here that could be used for wind, solar,etc, even if it cost a little more to implement and upkeep than using other resource based measures to make power. .... it would be worth it surely? not only that, can any one say "creating employment " at a time when we are losing our manufacturing base, these boofheads in govco seem to have not much imagination or forward thinking, that goes for all of the parties .... tree huggers included.

i saw an interesting post some time ago on another forum totally unrelated to power generation, but it got me thinking about lake eyre, here is a fairly big seasonal salt lake that is if im not mistaken is 15 feet below sea level and has a mean depth of one metre, and i could be wrong but, surely it wouldn't take a lot of effort to do something with it for hydro electric? even if it means putting a permanent canal in to give it a daily tidal thing happening? or a molten salt solar array?
we have army core engineers, im probably barking up the wrong tree, but hey the imagination thing, we don't seem to too much happening with our pollies other than more ways to tax us.
sorry for going off topic.

Only one problem with your Lake Eyre idea....

Power transmission distances have limits where the transmission losses are too big to make it viable.

From sheer memory I think it was about 3-400km from the generating source.

[supershifty]

Well I just got my letter in the post from AGL announcing that my gas and electricity prices are going up. I'm not surprised.

Gas (natural, not bottled) has gone up bugger all. They've decreased the daily supply charge (wtf?) and the increase in the cost of gas will add a whopping 80c per quarter to my bill based on 500mJ usage. Yep, I've checked my math three times.

Electricity has gone up 1.5c/kW (to 30.8c/kW) which is fine. The buggers have upped the ante big time on the daily supply charge: went up from 55c/day to 92c/day effectively adding $32 per quarter to my bill.

I'm not crying in my beer, I know some of you have been paying +90c/day supply well before us in QLD - but what increase is in store for you? I'm lucky that my solar generates more than I use, can't help but feel for you blokes that have a Mrs, house full of kids and appliances etc.

Cheers!

[poppa smurf]

tyranny of distance has always been our downfall, however with our interstate inter connectors and sub stations we pretty much send power to wherever we want to now.

other nations are investing huge amounts of money into "alternative" energy sources whereas we, who used to lead the field in solar, stagnate and bow to the vested interests of "dirty power".

seems to me that we are losing many opportunities in solar production/sales/innovation in battery/power/storage design, apparently fuel cell storage is being used in other countries, along with production/employment opportunities.

the employment figures were reeled last night, it showed South Australia has the highest figure in the nation even behind Tasmania?????.......this is before the closure of Holden and its suppliers.

we are in deep doo doo.......why not open the graphite mine currently under exploration on the Yorke peninsula then fire up a graphite battery manufacturing industry in Port Pirie?

we could export to the world through the port and employ hundreds if not thousands through suppliers and retailers.

I see Australia remaining simply the "gravel pit" of the world instead of the Innovative country we used to be and could be again with a little thought from the powers that be instead of constantly pandering to big business.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by supershifty

Well I just got my letter in the post from AGL announcing that my gas and electricity prices are going up. I'm not surprised.

Gas (natural, not bottled) has gone up bugger all. They've decreased the daily supply charge (wtf?) and the increase in the cost of gas will add a whopping 80c per quarter to my bill based on 500mJ usage. Yep, I've checked my math three times.

Electricity has gone up 1.5c/kW (to 30.8c/kW) which is fine. The buggers have upped the ante big time on the daily supply charge: went up from 55c/day to 92c/day effectively adding $32 per quarter to my bill.

I'm not crying in my beer, I know some of you have been paying +90c/day supply well before us in QLD - but what increase is in store for you? I'm lucky that my solar generates more than I use, can't help but feel for you blokes that have a Mrs, house full of kids and appliances etc.

Cheers!

They have to increase prices now knowing they will be coming down with the imminent repeal of the CT. helps maintain their god given rights to big profits! Didn't you know

JP

[sleek7]

Hi Guys,

Been reading this thread intently. I have now been in my (first) house for 12 months now and am planning on getting in on that free energy from the sun...
I'm in Melbournes west and have a couple of solar Co's already in mind for quote comparison, just wondering if any other Melbournains here have any recommended solar suppliers/installers that you'd like to share with me? Am intending to get a 4kwh system.

[my_gxl]

I just got on the AGL energy facebook page and asked them to explain why the daily charge jumped. They tried to explain the tariffs are not set by them, but go all political when you say daily supply is not a set tariff.

Originally Posted by supershifty

Well I just got my letter in the post from AGL announcing that my gas and electricity prices are going up. I'm not surprised.

Gas (natural, not bottled) has gone up bugger all. They've decreased the daily supply charge (wtf?) and the increase in the cost of gas will add a whopping 80c per quarter to my bill based on 500mJ usage. Yep, I've checked my math three times.

Electricity has gone up 1.5c/kW (to 30.8c/kW) which is fine. The buggers have upped the ante big time on the daily supply charge: went up from 55c/day to 92c/day effectively adding $32 per quarter to my bill.

I'm not crying in my beer, I know some of you have been paying +90c/day supply well before us in QLD - but what increase is in store for you? I'm lucky that my solar generates more than I use, can't help but feel for you blokes that have a Mrs, house full of kids and appliances etc.

Cheers!

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by my_gxl

I just got on the AGL energy facebook page and asked them to explain why the daily charge jumped. They tried to explain the tariffs are not set by them, but go all political when you say daily supply is not a set tariff.

bit of a furphy there but they are correct in that the tariffs, are sort of, mandated by Govco in an effort to keep "profits" for investors.

[ebxr8240]

Tech ??
Is it worth fitting 3 phase inverter as I have 3 phase air conditioning ..
Or is single phase ok?
I mean how does the air con draw off solar through the day on the other phases ??

[ebxr8240]

Ok it seems the poly phase meter works it out..
Single phase is ok if under 5kw.











the meter calculating/offsetting load on other phases than the phase the inverter is connected to is true (and only for Ausgrid's area and if it's an individual 3phase meter – if it's three 1phase meters then they can't talk to each other, and for other areas I believe the solar does not "offset" the other two phases)... Remember Energy Australia is now a retailer and not a meter provider or network owner/operator and has no control over what meters are installed. You might be with Energy Australia but in Endeavour or Country Energy's area.

However, the NSW Service Rules changed earlier this year and now state you MUST have a 3phase inverter (or multiple single phase inverters spread across the phases)if the system (total inverter rating) is 5kw or larger. Some solar companies and installers are still coming to grips with this, and don't understand there are two separate issues being dealt with in the latest Service Rules – one 5kw limit relates to additional information/calculations of voltage rise required, the other 5kw limit relates to how the generating system is connected/metered. Last time I spoke to someone about this it took a 20 minute phone conversation and they still didn't understand it! They also said other companies had quoted the customer for a single phase 5kw inverter but only put 4750w of panels on it, incorrectly believing they were exempt from the new Service Rules requirements.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

Ok it seems the poly phase meter works it out..
Single phase is ok if under 5kw.



.

Can't see how that is correct.

I've had over 15kw grid feeding in on single phase for years now.

And we have multi phase.

the only limit is the transformer on the supply pole...its 20kw.