All things Solar (merged threads)

[Legit290]

Update.

Solar went in last weekend. I don't really understand too much about the numbers. It generated 21 kW today. I reset the pool to run in the daytime now so I imagine we are saving all of the filtering costs at least.
What does the PAC reading mean? Towards the end of the day when I get home the numbers seem to be going backwards.
Cheers

[supershifty]

I dunno what PAC is an acronym for, but it is the amount of kilowatts your system is generating. Your seeing it drop as the sun goes down, you'll see it go up as the sun rises in the morning.

Cheers!

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by Legit290

Update.

Solar went in last weekend. I don't really understand too much about the numbers. It generated 21 kW today. I reset the pool to run in the daytime now so I imagine we are saving all of the filtering costs at least.
What does the PAC reading mean? Towards the end of the day when I get home the numbers seem to be going backwards.
Cheers

Pac is Power on the AC output. (ie. how many Watts you are generating or instantaneous power)

[Yellow_Festiva]

May as well ask here seeing it's solar related.

Anyone have any experience with a new type of solar hot water that uses vacuum tubes??

Thermann evacuated vacuum tube system (or something like that) - costly up front, but apparently the bees knees.

Cheers,

Jason

[CJR09]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

May as well ask here seeing it's solar related.

Anyone have any experience with a new type of solar hot water that uses vacuum tubes??

Thermann evacuated vacuum tube system (or something like that) - costly up front, but apparently the bees knees.

Cheers,

Jason

evac tubes are the most efficient form of solar hot water heating per m2 - meaning you use up less space for the same outcome.

they are not new technology and have been around for a while - 20+yrs and in my experience as a designer/engineer, retailer & installer they should be cheaper than flat plate.

They are not as pretty as flat plate but you can get evacuated flat plate also which IMO look quite good and would be comparable in aesthetics to a PV module/panel

If you are chasing something that looks good and have the coin then the evac flat plate are the go - if you are on a budget and not concerned with looks the tubes are fine.

Safety valving and control is critical and a must to give due consideration to - my own system regularly see's temps over 100 deg C - hot water use (or time of use) needs consideration and make sure to speak with designer about that so it can be worked around - element/backup control et al...

I wouldn't touch a roof top thermosiphon system- too much heat loss in down time & just simply are not as efficient - split system all the way.

Many will say don't bother with SHW as the price point of PV is quite competeive now but it is not as simple and black & white as that - many people do not have the ideal roof space layout & orientation for a house lot of pv to kill all power use - if this is the case then money is better & more efficiently spent using a combination of SHW & filling the rest available space on roof with PV.

A properly sized and setup system will give you 80% of all DHW use.



Turned into long winded post - sorry about that - my 2c, hope it helps!

cheers, cjr

[Yellow_Festiva]

No, that was great info. I have around 400m of roof area to play with and most can't be seen from the ground so it has to just work, not look pretty too.

Didn't know of the different types so will run that by the plumber. I know I've been quoted for 32 tubes and a 315l storage tank.

Thanks again,

Jason

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

No, that was great info. I have around 400m of roof area to play with and most can't be seen from the ground so it has to just work, not look pretty too.

Didn't know of the different types so will run that by the plumber. I know I've been quoted for 32 tubes and a 315l storage tank.

Thanks again,

Jason

You would be better off spending the money on more panels and an inverter purely to run the hot water.
Then simply set to heat during the day when the sun shines.


PV panels are so cheap now and the convection hot water systems are expensive and at least when the hot water is hot you can then feed the grid with the excess PV panels output.

Works for me....

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by zilo

You would be better off spending the money on more panels and an inverter purely to run the hot water.
Then simply set to heat during the day when the sun shines.


PV panels are so cheap now and the convection hot water systems are expensive and at least when the hot water is hot you can then feed the grid with the excess PV panels output.

Works for me....

We are not going solar - as in panels to create power.

We have a 2br unit at the moment and have people staying over all the time yet our power consumption is miserly between myself and my wife. Less than what a single person in a studio would use according to the averages on the bill.

[my_gxl]

I have Solar and the evac tube solar hot water. Meant I could get away with a smaller solar elec system. At least with the evac tubes you can just replace 1 if it breaks.

[supershifty]

Premier Campbell Newman accused of 'demonising' solar industry to boost asset privatisation agenda

By Andree Withey
Posted Mon 13 Oct 2014, 11:58amMon 13 Oct 2014, 11:58am
Photo: The Australian Solar Council has accused Premier Campbell Newman of "dumb politics". (Lateline Business)

Map: Brisbane 4000

The Australian Solar Council says the Queensland Premier is trying to demonise solar power to boost the value of electricity assets ahead of their privatisation.
Premier Campbell Newman said yesterday the Queensland Government would remove the cost of the solar bonus scheme from electricity prices if it was re-elected, to reduce the price of electricity.
Mr Newman said the $3.4 billion Strong Choices Cost of Living Fund would be used to ensure Queenslanders would not have to subsidise the cost of solar through their power bills.
The money would come from the Government's recently backed $37 billion leasing asset plan.
But Australian Solar Council chief executive John Grimes said the strategy was flawed and Mr Newman's comments were "outrageous".
"He's using solar families in Queensland that have entered into a government scheme in good faith as political pawns to try and create pressure and vilify them, so he can sell off the electricity assets and get top dollar for them," he said.


"What the Premier is trying to do is basically demonise solar, say that solar PV really is the reason for electricity prices being so high in Queensland and for eroding the value of the electricity assets.
"Premier Newman should start to tell the truth - the cost of electricity increases in Queensland have been because of gold plating of the infrastructure, the poles and wires in Queensland.
"Our own research shows that the more solar you have on the grid in Queensland, the cheaper electricity prices become for everybody."
Federal MP Clive Palmer today criticised the State Government's privatisation agenda on social media, labelling the move a broken promise.
Mr Grimes said the business model of the major electricity retailers was broken, yet the State Government had chosen to champion that model.
"They've chosen to side with the vested interests of the big power companies, the existing status quo, and against the community - and that's really dumb politics," he said.
"The community see clearly what's happening and they'll react accordingly.


"Premier Newman said yesterday he would conduct an inquiry into the solar bonus scheme in Queensland.
"We've conducted our own inquiry and we found that in the first four months of the Newman Government, as much solar was installed as had been installed for the three years of the previous government.
"Stop attacking the people of Queensland who entered into a government scheme in good faith, who've invested their own capital in solar generation, which creates a benefit for the entire industry, for the entire public, by reducing the need for expensive infrastructure upgrades."
He said the termination of the Queensland Government feed-in tariff resulted in a short-term downturn in the uptake of solar power, but that Queenslanders were again investing in solar.
"Even though Premier Newman thinks solar energy is not worth anything and if it's fed into the grid it should just be a windfall profit for the government-owned utilities, despite that people know that installing solar is cheaper than buying electricity from the grid.
Mr Grimes said the solar industry would continue to grow while the price of electricity "continues to spiral out of control".

Source: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-1...sation/5809212

Premier Campbell did say Saturday on a radio interview that those that signed up under the 44c FIT would not lose it - hmmm! For now anyway.

Cheers!

[zeuss000]

The sooner we can get rid of this Newman scumbag and his band of cronies the better we will all be..
Ed

[LG17]

Is there anywhere out there that publishes a "rough guide" as to expected outputs of various systems? For example, in SE Qld a 1.5kw system facing north.... should be capable of producing x per hour.

[supershifty]

There is - poppa had a link posted way back in this very thread. Sparky Dave had one too (or had his claws on the info)

Sorry I didn't bookmark it - I used it for a comparison on my system, and it was pretty well on the mark, within 10% anyway.

Perhaps the above lads will chime in when they see your post.

Cheers!

[SPArKy_Dave]

Originally Posted by supershifty

Sparky Dave had one too (or had his claws on the info)

Perhaps the above lads will chime in when they see your post.

Cheers!

Yeeees.......
You called?

[SPArKy_Dave]

Originally Posted by LG17

Is there anywhere out there that publishes a "rough guide" as to expected outputs of various systems? For example, in SE Qld a 1.5kw system facing north.... should be capable of producing x per hour.

should be capable of producing x per hour...........

An average of 4-6kWh per kW of solar installed.

[LG17]

Thanks guys.
I was asking as I'm unsure about my system.
I have a 5kw Kaco inverter with 20 x 260w REC panels.
So far the meter yield is 5958.6 kwh for 3143.42 hrs which is only about 1.9 per hour.

Roof is 20 degrees, panels face due north with absolutely nothing in the way.

[Auslandau]

Just a question I need to ask on billing for Solar! Have had this discussion with the power company and I don't think they know what they are doing or charging ..... so, in real simple terms

Was paying 31 cents
Installed Solar
Now paying 39 cents because of Solar install.
Rebate from Govco: 8 Cents

Which all equals zero dollars saving.

KW's used - 2200 - $858
KW's fed - 500 - $40

Total bill - $818

NOW my question to them was, If I didn't install Solar, my bill would be $818, the same as having solar! Shouldn't I be getting the rebate PLUS the 500 kw's of feed discounted off the bill?

They say the bill is correct. At this rate, I will pay the solar back .... never! What am I missing here. I was on the phone to them 3 times saying that it does not seem correct and they are telling me everything is correct. One person said ... "Well, at least you are doing something for the environment!" After I said why did I install Solar?

Am going to ring other companies to get some quotes anyway but am at a loss on the lack of explanation from them.

[zeuss000]

You need to shop around mate, that doesn't seem right at all. I can't help much as i am in Qld but I'm sure if you look around you'll do better than that and maybe even find someone to talk to that isn't in a call centre in India that knows what they are on about.
I am paying 22c per kWh and receiving 10c per for what i feed back

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Was paying 31 cents
Installed Solar
Now paying 39 cents because of Solar install.
Rebate from Govco: 8 Cents

'Ang about. Your electricity price goes up because you installed Solar ?

On that basis the Power company win.
The Solar Installer wins.

You lose!

[CJR09]

^^^ this will likely become the "norm"


makes the hybrids seem a lot more attractive, getting close to becoming cost effective to go off grid on a domestic scale

[SPArKy_Dave]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Just a question I need to ask on billing for Solar! Have had this discussion with the power company and I don't think they know what they are doing or charging ..... so, in real simple terms

Was paying 31 cents
Installed Solar
Now paying 39 cents because of Solar install.
Rebate from Govco: 8 Cents

Which all equals zero dollars saving.

KW's used - 2200 - $858
KW's fed - 500 - $40

Total bill - $818

NOW my question to them was, If I didn't install Solar, my bill would be $818, the same as having solar! Shouldn't I be getting the rebate PLUS the 500 kw's of feed discounted off the bill?

They say the bill is correct. At this rate, I will pay the solar back .... never! What am I missing here. I was on the phone to them 3 times saying that it does not seem correct and they are telling me everything is correct. One person said ... "Well, at least you are doing something for the environment!" After I said why did I install Solar?

Am going to ring other companies to get some quotes anyway but am at a loss on the lack of explanation from them.

Absolute ridiculousness.....
They don't want you as their customer.
It's basically a 'go away' rate.

With those numbers, you're actually WORSE off, as you would need to export at least as much as you imported, to offset the increased tariff costs.

BUT, how you've described the metering, is not quite correct.
While the sun is shining, the solar will be directly powering any loads in the house.
If there isn't enough solar generation, you import the shortfall from the grid. If there is an EXCESS solar generation, you export power to the grid.

At night, you're obviously importing all your power from the grid.
(unless you have a battery bank/hybrid system)

What you're were thinking - is a GROSS feed-in, where all the solar is exported separately. The did that for a while in NSW, but never in Vic.

In Vic, it's only a NET feed in.

To complete the equation you've put in your post, you also need to know what the total solar generation was, over the billing period.
You'd need to get that info from the inverter itself, or your datalogger, if you had one installed with the solar system.

[SPArKy_Dave]

Originally Posted by CJR09

^^^ this will likely become the "norm"


makes the hybrids seem a lot more attractive, getting close to becoming cost effective to go off grid on a domestic scale

Hence the reason we're now starting to install Hybrids.
At the moment, most of the installations are for rural/farm customers, and for 'work from home' domestic customers.

Those people can offset the installation costs as a tax deduction, etc.

[Auslandau]

Yep, thats how I understood it too ..... I think

But I expected to see a drop from an average of 2200 ..... which is very consistent throughout the year to at least under 2000kwh. Estimated, going through the bills for 2 years, that I should be able to easily achieve 1800kwh without changing anything else. Have put a crap load of LED's to replace around 30 downlights also, which didn't make a dent.

Whether I got a 'credit' back from the feed put in or I used the Solar power during the day I expected to see a drop in usage. It is only a 3kw system and on good days have done 17kwh's. Didn't expect to recoup my money in 1 bill ..... possibly quite a few years but thought it would hit the usage and the bill a bit,

AND YES ...... the fact the put the tariff up 0.08 cents when I installed, which is actually stated on the bill as a solar charge, and then get it back through Govco, they thought this was a bonus! A neutral positive

[SPArKy_Dave]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Yep, thats how I understood it too ..... I think

But I expected to see a drop from an average of 2200 ..... which is very consistent throughout the year to at least under 2000kwh.

Ok, so a decent 3kW system, should offset your average daily usage, by about 12-18kWh per day.

So, look at the average daily kWh usages for 12mths of bills before solar,
and for all the current ones WITH solar.

Has the stated 'kWh per day' value dropped?

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Just a question I need to ask on billing for Solar! Have had this discussion with the power company and I don't think they know what they are doing or charging ..... so, in real simple terms

Was paying 31 cents
Installed Solar
Now paying 39 cents because of Solar install.
Rebate from Govco: 8 Cents

Which all equals zero dollars saving.

KW's used - 2200 - $858
KW's fed - 500 - $40

Total bill - $818

NOW my question to them was, If I didn't install Solar, my bill would be $818, the same as having solar! Shouldn't I be getting the rebate PLUS the 500 kw's of feed discounted off the bill?

They say the bill is correct. At this rate, I will pay the solar back .... never! What am I missing here. I was on the phone to them 3 times saying that it does not seem correct and they are telling me everything is correct. One person said ... "Well, at least you are doing something for the environment!" After I said why did I install Solar?

Am going to ring other companies to get some quotes anyway but am at a loss on the lack of explanation from them.

It's not unfair.

You install solar, you pump nice clean green power on the grid.
If you want power OFF the grid cause you aren't maklng enough then don't expect to buy back dirty coal power.
You buy back green power cause you have chosen nto be a nett green customer....and green power costs more.

Now isn't that fair enough?

Your 3kw system is a baby setup, you will never pay it off cause you will never put anything of any significance onto the grid, you won't even offset your own use.

Shoulda got 5kw...minimum.

[supershifty]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Yep, thats how I understood it too ..... I think

But I expected to see a drop from an average of 2200 ..... which is very consistent throughout the year to at least under 2000kwh. Estimated, going through the bills for 2 years, that I should be able to easily achieve 1800kwh without changing anything else. Have put a crap load of LED's to replace around 30 downlights also, which didn't make a dent.

Whether I got a 'credit' back from the feed put in or I used the Solar power during the day I expected to see a drop in usage. It is only a 3kw system and on good days have done 17kwh's. Didn't expect to recoup my money in 1 bill ..... possibly quite a few years but thought it would hit the usage and the bill a bit,

AND YES ...... the fact the put the tariff up 0.08 cents when I installed, which is actually stated on the bill as a solar charge, and then get it back through Govco, they thought this was a bonus! A neutral positive

That sounds about right in comparison to my 2kW system, best I've ever gotten is 13 odd kW on a summer's day, averaged out I get 10 - 11kW on a sunny day.

I'm with AGL (in Brisbane) my tariffs never changed when I went solar. If you're not on a contract with your current retailer, then it's time to go phone/net shopping. I find AGL's bills a tad confusing, but I can see my credits/rebates easily.

Member xisled if he's watching may be able to offer you some advice as he is/has worked for an electricity retailer - give it some time and flick him a PM.

Sounds like you're getting screwed to me.

Cheers!

[ebxr8240]

Check your hot water system?
If it has off peak ??
What is the off peak tariff ??
May pay have these heavy load items on through the day ??
While solar is working..
The way things are going? Ill have have battery bank and
have 12v lights and TV ..

[zeuss000]

Originally Posted by LG17

Is there anywhere out there that publishes a "rough guide" as to expected outputs of various systems? For example, in SE Qld a 1.5kw system facing north.... should be capable of producing x per hour.

Might be worth having a look at this website mate.
Ed

http://www.3quotes.com.au/solar-powe...r-my-home.html

[buggerlugs]

Originally Posted by supershifty

Premier Campbell Newman accused of 'demonising' solar industry to boost asset privatisation agenda

By Andree Withey
Posted Mon 13 Oct 2014, 11:58amMon 13 Oct 2014, 11:58am
image Photo: The Australian Solar Council has accused Premier Campbell Newman of "dumb politics". (Lateline Business)

Map: Brisbane 4000

The Australian Solar Council says the Queensland Premier is trying to demonise solar power to boost the value of electricity assets ahead of their privatisation.
Premier Campbell Newman said yesterday the Queensland Government would remove the cost of the solar bonus scheme from electricity prices if it was re-elected, to reduce the price of electricity.
Mr Newman said the $3.4 billion Strong Choices Cost of Living Fund would be used to ensure Queenslanders would not have to subsidise the cost of solar through their power bills.
The money would come from the Government's recently backed $37 billion leasing asset plan.
But Australian Solar Council chief executive John Grimes said the strategy was flawed and Mr Newman's comments were "outrageous".
"He's using solar families in Queensland that have entered into a government scheme in good faith as political pawns to try and create pressure and vilify them, so he can sell off the electricity assets and get top dollar for them," he said.


"What the Premier is trying to do is basically demonise solar, say that solar PV really is the reason for electricity prices being so high in Queensland and for eroding the value of the electricity assets.
"Premier Newman should start to tell the truth - the cost of electricity increases in Queensland have been because of gold plating of the infrastructure, the poles and wires in Queensland.
"Our own research shows that the more solar you have on the grid in Queensland, the cheaper electricity prices become for everybody."
Federal MP Clive Palmer today criticised the State Government's privatisation agenda on social media, labelling the move a broken promise.
Mr Grimes said the business model of the major electricity retailers was broken, yet the State Government had chosen to champion that model.
"They've chosen to side with the vested interests of the big power companies, the existing status quo, and against the community - and that's really dumb politics," he said.
"The community see clearly what's happening and they'll react accordingly.


"Premier Newman said yesterday he would conduct an inquiry into the solar bonus scheme in Queensland.
"We've conducted our own inquiry and we found that in the first four months of the Newman Government, as much solar was installed as had been installed for the three years of the previous government.
"Stop attacking the people of Queensland who entered into a government scheme in good faith, who've invested their own capital in solar generation, which creates a benefit for the entire industry, for the entire public, by reducing the need for expensive infrastructure upgrades."
He said the termination of the Queensland Government feed-in tariff resulted in a short-term downturn in the uptake of solar power, but that Queenslanders were again investing in solar.
"Even though Premier Newman thinks solar energy is not worth anything and if it's fed into the grid it should just be a windfall profit for the government-owned utilities, despite that people know that installing solar is cheaper than buying electricity from the grid.
Mr Grimes said the solar industry would continue to grow while the price of electricity "continues to spiral out of control".

Source: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-1...sation/5809212

Premier Campbell did say Saturday on a radio interview that those that signed up under the 44c FIT would not lose it - hmmm! For now anyway.

Cheers!

Can you imagine the lawsuit from Qld'ers if he removed the 44c FIT.......It would be massive..............

[zeuss000]

I just do not get what he is on about, how can folks with solar panels on there roof be costing the others on there bills? we are selling power back to the grid for a pittance and they are selling it back for a huge profit. Doesn't make sense..
He won't be here for much longer anyway..