All things Solar (merged threads)

[jandj]

No problems LG17, I could understand people coming on here wanting to buy solar and seeing a lot of figures been thrown around. If anyone is interested I could give a breakdown of solar credits and usage, if anyone is interested?

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by devilcv8

Aren't the high FIT plans gross where all generated electricity is fed back to the grid and you get paid the high FIT and then buy back all your usage at whatever your price happens to be? In this scenario, it makes no difference how much of your usage is during the day as you still pay for everything you use.


Those on NET metering however need to use as much of their generated power as possible during the day.

.

I'm on a "high" F.I.T. and have seen my account go from 18 Kw per day usage reduced to less than 10 KW per day as well as a credit in my account.

so it's a win, win for me.

if the house is drawing less than the output from your array the house will draw from solar, as soon as the house exceeds generation capability it will draw from the grid.

at least that's how my SMA inverter runs.......I have 2 little windows on the bottom of my screen that tells me if I'm drawing from the grid or straight from solar.

if your system is large enough, and your usage low enough then solar will be of benefit with or without FIT.......I see my FIT as cream on the top, nothing more....I spend more on coffee.

if, however, you use 25 kilowatt hours per day with peak/average use of 6 kws and generate 3 kw per hour, 10 kw per day then it is of little benefit. (I've seen exactly this scenario many times with people stating "solar is useless")

do your sums and be realistic and solar will ALWAYS be of use.

[my_gxl]

If I use the power I generate by day, it won't get exported on the grid. Use as little as possible during the day to get paid for it, and then keep usage down at night so you have to pay less. Simples.

It makes a difference to me that I am on the 44c govt rebate. Keeping that contract for sure

[devilcv8]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

I'm on a "high" F.I.T. and have seen my account go from 18 Kw per day usage reduced to less than 10 KW per day as well as a credit in my account.

ok so a gross FIT? I don't know of any high FIT that did it as a net FIT

at least that's how my SMA inverter runs.......I have 2 little windows on the bottom of my screen that tells me if I'm drawing from the grid or solar

Your inverter is calculating that. On a gross FIT you get paid for every kw you generate and use none of what you generate. Your bill from your provider should show that.
If however you are on a net FIT, then it works how you say, and is really costing you. After all, with a FIT higher than what it costs you, you never want to use what you generate.
Hope this makes sense.

[ute83]

Originally Posted by xisled

I have also seen massive bills for people who had the PFIT buy back (66 cents) in Victoria because they don't use their electricity during the daylight hours.

PFIT is 60 cents, anymore comes from the retailer.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by devilcv8

Aren't the high FIT plans gross where all generated electricity is fed back to the grid and you get paid the high FIT and then buy back all your usage at whatever your price happens to be? In this scenario, it makes no difference how much of your usage is during the day as you still pay for everything you use.


Those on NET metering however need to use as much of their generated power as possible during the day.

In my case I've gone from an average 30kwh per 24 hours in usage to 14, although the last bill was 20 per 24 hours. I'm generating 28-30 per day from my 3kw system over the summer months and based on my bill I have halved my billed usage. Still have more to do, but the SPA does hurt a fair bit which is why I only run it during the day, unless in it at night. My 6c FIT only pays me $39.90 on the latest bill. That was for 655 kwh excess generated.
NSW is messed up. Last 12 months I had 21% discount with origin and when it expired they offered SFA so I left. They then offered 18% discount for pay on time which saves me $77 on this bill. I pay 28.35c and 10.15 for peak and off peak with service charges of $90.06 and $8.24 for 91 days. Lucky me gets to do this dance in 12 months again to try for a discount.

All systems in Victoria are net there is no gross metering. I think SA is the same.

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by devilcv8

ok so a gross FIT? I don't know of any high FIT that did it as a net FIT

Your inverter is calculating that. On a gross FIT you get paid for every kw you generate and use none of what you generate. Your bill from your provider should show that.
If however you are on a net FIT, then it works how you say, and is really costing you. After all, with a FIT higher than what it costs you, you never want to use what you generate.
Hope this makes sense.

mate, I've checked on this "gross" and "net" F.I.T. that you speak of and no-one here in good old S.A. has heard of it.

I had a good look at all my accounts (going back 10 years plus) and there is not a sign of anything like that, I rang Lumo and the girl on the end simply stated.. "I am paid for the amount of power that I feed back into the grid" she, nor her supervisor new anything about it either!

so I wouldn't have a clue what I, or the other 120 odd folks I have helped with solar, are on.

Yesterday for instance I generated 23 Kw's, used 6 Kw's of these directly to the house and exported, and was paid for, 17 Kw's to the grid.

these figures are taken directly from my inverter panel and my smart meter readings.

So whether that is gross or not I wouldn't have a clue and neither, it seems, does anyone else around here.

I'm just happy that I haven't got to pay that damnable power bill any more, the credit is simply cream on the top.

However, it has been said by, those in the know, that some 10,000 folks here in S.A. are heading into Christmas without power because they can't afford their power bills.

What's more the number is growing every year.

That, to me, is bloody gross!.

[stevejg33]

[QUOTE=poppa smurf;5277367]mate, I've checked on this "gross" and "net" F.I.T. that you speak of and no-one here in good old S.A. has heard of it.

I had a good look at all my accounts (going back 10 years plus) and there is not a sign of anything like that, I rang Lumo and the girl on the end simply stated.. "I am paid for the amount of power that I feed back into the grid" she, nor her supervisor new anything about it either!

I agree with Poppa, we just get a credit on the excess power our system produces above the household useage. We use what we use, get a credit on the excess generated, & eat into the credits if we're using more power than is being generated.
We have a 6kw system, 51 cent FIT, haven't paid a bill in over 3 years & are a couple of thousand dollars in credit, (& my wife & daughter still have no idea that the switch that turns on the lights also turns it off)

[stevejg33]

[/URL]

Just clocked up 30 thousand kw hours of power generated in almost 3 & a half years.

[poppa smurf]

Bloody hell you gotta be happy with that.......damn fine outcome.

[devilcv8]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

mate, I've checked on this "gross" and "net" F.I.T. that you speak of and no-one here in good old S.A. has heard of it.

Ok fair enough. Looks like SA did it differently to NSW.
The simple difference is
: net = you use what you generate first and feed excess to grid. Best for low feed in tarrif
:gross= everything you generate feeds to grid. Best for high feed in tarrif.

Using my example of 30 kw a day usage would mean with gross fit of 60c I only need to generate 15kw to balance my usage and a 3kwsystem would have me in credit. Unfortunately I'm on net and still get $400 odd bills a quarter, but they would be close to double without solar

[devilcv8]

Fit vs gross explained
http://www.feedintariff.com.au/tariff-faq.php

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by devilcv8

Ok fair enough. Looks like SA did it differently to NSW.
The simple difference is
: net = you use what you generate first and feed excess to grid. Best for low feed in tarrif
:gross= everything you generate feeds to grid. Best for high feed in tarrif.

Using my example of 30 kw a day usage would mean with gross fit of 60c I only need to generate 15kw to balance my usage and a 3kwsystem would have me in credit. Unfortunately I'm on net and still get $400 odd bills a quarter, but they would be close to double without solar

from what I can see every state is different in many ways........why I NEVER give advice to anyone interstate as it may not be pertinent nor relevant.

[supershifty]

In QLD I'm net FIT as well. AFAIK so is everyone else in QLD.

My 2kW system has generated 9479kW in 2.5 years. My usage over that time has been (on average) 2920kW.

steveJG33 - I'm jealous, well done mate!

Cheers!

[Mr Hardware]

Yeah my understanding too is that everyone in QLD is on net (only feed in excess above what you're using).
I'm on the new FIT (10c), Electric everything (stove, oven, AC, hot water) and bills would be around the $550 a quarter, now around $90 a quarter. Average daily usage went from
16kwh tariff 11 & 5kwh tariff 31 to
6kwh tariff 11 & 5kwh tariff 31 & 21kwh tariff 40/9999 (feed in)

[poppa smurf]

one effect of "green energy" and rising gas prices......

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-1...threat/5958604

and this is just plain codswallop...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-2...o-soar/5905560

nothing more than gouging, they make squllions as it is without more rises.

one step closer to going off grid completely.

[buggerlugs]

Slightly off topic, but I have a customer who owns and runs a tourist park up here. He was telling me 6 years ago his quarterly bill was around $7000.00. He hasn't changed anything in 6 years but his quarterly bill is now $30,000.00...........and he knows he has missed the boat on solar.......

[LG17]

We got our 3rd bill today after going solar earlier this year.
My biggest difficulty has been educating my wife that the washing machine/dryer/dishwasher doesn't go on at night and that I am capable of pushing the right button to make them work during the day.
Judging by the bill (only $250) she's finally learning.
I also noticed that the 9c FIT is now only 6.5c because of the axing of the carbon tax.
Approx 38% drop but their charge only went down from 26.7c to 25.4c an approx drop of 5%.

Bloody stung again! :(

[supershifty]

Originally Posted by LG17

We got our 3rd bill today after going solar earlier this year.
My biggest difficulty has been educating my wife that the washing machine/dryer/dishwasher doesn't go on at night and that I am capable of pushing the right button to make them work during the day.
Judging by the bill (only $250) she's finally learning.
I also noticed that the 9c FIT is now only 6.5c because of the axing of the carbon tax.
Approx 38% drop but their charge only went down from 26.7c to 25.4c an approx drop of 5%.

Bloody stung again! :(

I'm due for a statement from AGL in early February, I keep my old bills so will compare it and report back in this thread if there's any difference in FIT/usage tariff. I'm only on a single tariff though, got CNG hot water/stove.

Cheers!

[Franco Cozzo]

Even if you don't get coin back from the power company these days, is it still worth having solar power?

5KW solar setup is on the cards and maybe A/C.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Even if you don't get coin back from the power company these days, is it still worth having solar power?

5KW solar setup is on the cards and maybe A/C.

Hey Damo,

Refer to my earlier posts regarding the success I have had with the install of a 4.5kW system at my place.

I am still yet to receive the first bill since I had the solar installed, but have been tracking my usage via the smart meter and the inverter details. Further to my last update, we've had over a week of overcast days (started the weekend where we had over 100mm rain over the three days) which has seen my account move from me being owed $4 to me owing the power supplier just over $8. The last couple of days have seen me claw back a few dollars of that, but that week of overcast conditions certainly didn't help.

Like LG17, the hardest part has been re-programming the wife to use all of the major appliances (dishwasher, washing machine) during the day instead of at night.

I personally think it is still worth it at current prices. If the talked-about increase in electricity supply charges eventuates, then I see it will be worth it even more.

Really, your personal circumstances (cost of installation, type of installation, usage patterns, etc) will determine the viability of the system. I think it would still be worth it, it's just the payback period that will change.

Hope that helps.

Craig H

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Even if you don't get coin back from the power company these days, is it still worth having solar power?

5KW solar setup is on the cards and maybe A/C.

if you use your power during the day then it is possibly worthwhile......but it won't run everything.

even a one eyed solar supporter like me has got to start thinking that it is really no longer feasible to go solar without a decent FIT.

I just got my latest account (after yet another argument with Lumo, they are splitting the account so I get my power usage data one month and then another month I would receive my solar rebate, made it impossible to understand the account)

I am still well in credit but for how long is anyones guess, SA power networks are going to increase their cost for no reason and the little chinaman is going to raise his charges as well.

[supershifty]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

if you use your power during the day then it is possibly worthwhile......but it won't run everything.

even a one eyed solar supporter like me has got to start thinking that it is really no longer feasible to go solar without a decent FIT.

I just got my latest account (after yet another argument with Lumo, they are splitting the account so I get my power usage data one month and then another month I would receive my solar rebate, made it impossible to understand the account)

I am still well in credit but for how long is anyones guess, SA power networks are going to increase their cost for no reason and the little chinaman is going to raise his charges as well.

That's just wrong poppa. AGL has recently reformatted their billing statements and it's easy to understand - before that it was nigh on impossible to fathom the statement.

Have you got AGL in SA that offers a competitive rate to Lumo?

Cheers!

Edit: I get my statements 1/4ly and get my solar credits paid 1/4ly at around the same time - dunno if that makes any difference.

[poppa smurf]

we have AGL but they are a higher rate than Lumo,.......I have spoken to "the supervisor" from Lumo (as high as I can get and she did send me out a corrected account that is more understandable.......this was done around two weeks later.....Yay!

but, like I said to her, why do I have to ring in and complain every bloody time I get a, so called, account from them......

every time I do so I have to re- explain what my gripe is to a person that barely comprehends english.......and believe me I am far from racist but surely the first priority for working at a call centre that deals with mainly english speaking clientele is to SPEAK BLOODY ENGLISH.

I study accounts all the time (self employed and I help a lot of folk out).......these things are becoming ridiculously hard to understand.

my statements are supposedly quarterly and read as such, but then they divide it up into monthly sectors with varying charges.

I.E.
july
anytime usage - step 1 ......from date to date.....so many kilowatt
anytime usage step 2 ......from date to date.....so many kilowatt
august
anytime usage - step 1 ......from date to date .....so many kilowatts
anytime usage - step 2 ......from date to date .....so many kilowatts

and on for the whole 3 months broken into particulate dates

then the solar reading for the 3 months would come a month later, I would then have to sit down with both accounts and try to work out what the hell they have done.

my question to them is ......given the infeed from mains and the solar outfeed were read on the same bloody day ( I know because I was there and I know and yakked to the retired cocky supplementing his pension that read it) how the hell can the total be broken down to different months and different totals?

I have a long term friend, who happens to be our local government representative, whom I will be speaking to about this.

to say I am not happy would be an understatement.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

if you use your power during the day then it is possibly worthwhile......but it won't run everything.

even a one eyed solar supporter like me has got to start thinking that it is really no longer feasible to go solar without a decent FIT.

I just got my latest account (after yet another argument with Lumo, they are splitting the account so I get my power usage data one month and then another month I would receive my solar rebate, made it impossible to understand the account)

I am still well in credit but for how long is anyones guess, SA power networks are going to increase their cost for no reason and the little chinaman is going to raise his charges as well.

My guess with your invoices is SA Power Networks are sending the data at different times and Lumo system is billing automatically when Billing you when the data. Supervisor has sent request to billing and billing have just reversed and reissued invoice to include all data.

It's actually common for it to happen. Most energy providers the Custer service team asks the billing team to review the account and the billing team make the changes and billing do not take calls.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

we have AGL but they are a higher rate than Lumo,.......I have spoken to "the supervisor" from Lumo (as high as I can get and she did send me out a corrected account that is more understandable.......this was done around two weeks later.....Yay!

but, like I said to her, why do I have to ring in and complain every bloody time I get a, so called, account from them......

every time I do so I have to re- explain what my gripe is to a person that barely comprehends english.......and believe me I am far from racist but surely the first priority for working at a call centre that deals with mainly english speaking clientele is to SPEAK BLOODY ENGLISH.

I study accounts all the time (self employed and I help a lot of folk out).......these things are becoming ridiculously hard to understand.

my statements are supposedly quarterly and read as such, but then they divide it up into monthly sectors with varying charges.

I.E.
july
anytime usage - step 1 ......from date to date.....so many kilowatt
anytime usage step 2 ......from date to date.....so many kilowatt
august
anytime usage - step 1 ......from date to date .....so many kilowatts
anytime usage - step 2 ......from date to date .....so many kilowatts

and on for the whole 3 months broken into particulate dates

then the solar reading for the 3 months would come a month later, I would then have to sit down with both accounts and try to work out what the hell they have done.

my question to them is ......given the infeed from mains and the solar outfeed were read on the same bloody day ( I know because I was there and I know and yakked to the retired cocky supplementing his pension that read it) how the hell can the total be broken down to different months and different totals?

I have a long term friend, who happens to be our local government representative, whom I will be speaking to about this.

to say I am not happy would be an understatement.

My guess would be that there was a price increase. First step 1 and 2 figures are based on the old rate, second step 1 and 2 figures are based on the new rate.

The amount of power you used is worked out on a daily rate and then calculated by the number of days in the the first section and second section. So the amount they charge you for each section is estimated. The total amount of usage would be actual.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

Slightly off topic, but I have a customer who owns and runs a tourist park up here. He was telling me 6 years ago his quarterly bill was around $7000.00. He hasn't changed anything in 6 years but his quarterly bill is now $30,000.00...........and he knows he has missed the boat on solar.......

Comparing prices is not the way for him to compare if the electricity has increased or if he is using more power.

He needs to get his prevoious invoices and have a look at how much power he is using. If the amount of usage is the same then the bills have increased a large amount. But my guess is that he is using a lot more power than he was previously.

The problem with appliances 6 years is a long time and if he hasn't replaced the appliances and cords etc, they may not be working economically. An electrician can conduct a audit to check if everything is working.

But I would suggest checking previous usage. My guess he is using a lot more than previously.

[poppa smurf]

no, I looked into different price rates for the period showing........prices for all periods are identical.

the differing figures are for the amount used, I.E. first 100 kilowatts = X amount per KW. (step one)

but how they simply "guess" a figure out of any given month from a known conglomerate quarterly reading is beyond me, however it is being looked into.

what if, for instance, I simply didn't use any power for the first month and then gobbled it up in the following two months, the first "step usage" data would be way out.

[BENT_8]

So after 96 pages it would appear that Solar power is of benefit if you...

Made a large enough initial investment so as to produce enough surplus energy to be worthwhile.

Receive a big enough FIT.

Can either get on the roof to clean your panels, or pay someone to do it for you.

Are retired and are home all day washing clothes and watching daytime soaps.

Are working during the day and only do 1 load of washing set by timer (cant empty itself and refill).

Have a degree in mathematics and enough spare time and phone credit to negotiate a bill you can understand.

Prepared to re schedule your lifestyle to work with your production hours.

Have I left anything out?

[poppa smurf]

bit of a strange assumption you make there, obviously haven't read many of the 96 pages.

there are panel recommendations and observations, there are inverter recommendations as well as observations.

there are solar maps, solar output from varying manufacturers in an actual home environment in varying states at different times of the year.

we have helped solve quite few incorrect installation problems as well as correct a few dramas.

we have reported on shonky installers and shown why a cheaper system is not necessarily a bad thing, we have also exposed cheap isolators and shown what the drawbacks and outcomes can be,

we have photos of installations with output observations in a "real" environment.

there is much advice and information for the potential solar purchaser in here.........yes you must do your sums and study a little bit but even that information is in here.

in the end you get out of this thread that which you wish to.......you chose to go shallow so you won't glean much from it, others have done a larger study, dug deeper, asked questions and purchased wisely and will benefit far into the future.

I will take this opportunity, to thank all contributors and wish they continue to make this thread what it is, without their input it means nothing.