All things Solar (merged threads)

[zilo]

It really is a simple technical task to install panels and an inverter.

It should be packaged as a user installable and scaleable product.

[Bushbasher]

As has been said, it looks to me like the Solar Shop is just trying to generate work and income for themselves by trying to spook the customer. It might have worked if they hadn't tried to gouge the customer with such a ludicrously high quote.

I've got a 4.8kw system installed since December 2012 and the inverter is hooked to the internet via built in WiFi direct to the manufacturer. It gives real time usage and graphs daily and historical usage on their web site. More importantly, they monitor the system health and if there is any deviation from the norm they get in touch with the installer to come and sort it out. The only time we've seen anyone was about 4 months after activation when a guy turned up and said the manufacturer told them to change the inverter as there was some issue. He did it a couple of days later at no charge.

[zilo]

With the recent drop in diesel pricing I calculate that it is almost break even to run a 5kw diesel generator.....???

It uses 1.57 litres per hour which is just under 40c per kilowatt/h for base load power.

so...a standalone solar/battery/off grid in the suburbs is viable ????

[stevejg33]

Had a chat to the nice people at consumer affairs, they have had a few enquiries regarding this. Told me that it is over servicing, doesn't really need to be done if the system is running well & there are no problems.
They also said I should be able to get a local solar installer to do the same job Solarshop are offering for less than half the price, if I really want to get it checked.
I think I'll leave it be, the system is running fine, everything is as it was at the time of installation. If I have any dramas I'll ring a local sparky.
As the old saying goes, if it's not broken, don't fix it.

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by stevejg33

Had a chat to the nice people at consumer affairs, they have had a few enquiries regarding this. Told me that it is over servicing, doesn't really need to be done if the system is running well & there are no problems.
They also said I should be able to get a local solar installer to do the same job Solarshop are offering for less than half the price, if I really want to get it checked.
I think I'll leave it be, the system is running fine, everything is as it was at the time of installation. If I have any dramas I'll ring a local sparky.
As the old saying goes, if it's not broken, don't fix it.

pretty much identical to what I had told you, good outcome....the original installer still has to adhere to ALL the rules and regulations, and sign off on it, that come's with ANY electrical install.

I've seen some roughy's and a couple of cheap Chinese isolation switches go but with all the safety features built into electricity nowadays I can't see any problems.

as for diesel/solar standalone, yep!, getting pretty close to parity with the power grid, it will soon be cheaper as the new, cheaper and better, battery's come on board.

ours will not be far away.

[zilo]

just rented an apartment in melbourne.

the body corp has negotiated with the power company to prpovide power for the entire complex.

The rate?


21c /kwh flat rate unlimited.

service to property 80c a day.


Compared to 33c and 1.18/ day with all the others i looked at.


Looks like there is room to move if negotiating eh?

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by zilo

just rented an apartment in melbourne.

the body corp has negotiated with the power company to prpovide power for the entire complex.

The rate?


21c /kwh flat rate unlimited.

service to property 80c a day.


Compared to 33c and 1.18/ day with all the others i looked at.


Looks like there is room to move if negotiating eh?

there is so much profit in power that negotiating is mandatory nowadays, if you aren't negotiating a better deal with your retailer and constantly comparing retailers then I'm afraid you deserve everything you get.

$0.21c per kilowatt.......shows just how much we in SA are getting reemed.

[devilcv8]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

there is so much profit in power that negotiating is mandatory nowadays, if you aren't negotiating a better deal with your retailer and constantly comparing retailers then I'm afraid you deserve everything you get.

$0.21c per kilowatt.......shows just how much we in SA are getting reemed.

Try actewagl in act. Last time I looked they were 18 c kwh
Cross the border and you paid another 13c. I haven't checked since the carbon tax reduced the price.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

there is so much profit in power that negotiating is mandatory nowadays, if you aren't negotiating a better deal with your retailer and constantly comparing retailers then I'm afraid you deserve everything you get.

$0.21c per kilowatt.......shows just how much we in SA are getting reemed.

Retailers dont negotiate, they already have plans and rates set. Most people just get an offer that is avaliable to everyone if they call up and ask or say they have another offer.

Here in vic, the company I work for, sells customers a 25% discount plan for paying on time, but we also have a better plan you can sign up for which is a 30% pay on time discount. The company does not push this plan at first point of sale, so they can offer this plan if they get an offer from another retailer.

There is no point changing companies in vic as rates rise every 6 months. By the time you switch companies, the rates change because of a rate increase.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

$0.21c per kilowatt.......shows just how much we in SA are getting reemed.

Really ? We're with Origin and ours is 28c per kw.

Forget what Gas is, but it doesn't matter Origin are the only gas suppliers, so we've no choice!

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by xisled

Retailers dont negotiate, they already have plans and rates set. Most people just get an offer that is avaliable to everyone if they call up and ask or say they have another offer.

Here in vic, the company I work for, sells customers a 25% discount plan for paying on time, but we also have a better plan you can sign up for which is a 30% pay on time discount. The company does not push this plan at first point of sale, so they can offer this plan if they get an offer from another retailer.

There is no point changing companies in vic as rates rise every 6 months. By the time you switch companies, the rates change because of a rate increase.

sorry but retailers DO negotiate.......they have a "set rate" for those who just lob on the door step but those that shop around WILL get a better deal.

my experience is with SA but I'm sure it will survive other state companies.

[FPV_Steve]

Hi All,

Has anyone dealt with the "Mark Group" for solar installations etc?

Had a quote by them on Friday night and their rep recommended a 5.0kw system for our house. He based this off his very firm belief that our current power usage of 6kWh for the first 1 and a half months in our house will double in the next 12 months.

I find this hard to believe considering that the 6kWh avg. usage so far was with either my wife or I, or even both of us at home for most of that time. However we are back at work now so I imagine our electricity usage would drop a bit?

His decision was also based on future proofing our house for when we have kids & our electricity usage goes up, but I raised the point that battery storage for any extra electricity generated is not far away which might mean a smaller system could be sufficient. Eg: 3.5kw or 4.0kw systems.

While a smaller system (incl. battery storage) might not totally cover all our electricity needs in the future, surely it would make our bills pretty small or even give us a credit occasionally?

Can anyone help shed some light on the quote & my thoughts?

Cheers,

Stephen

[poppa smurf]

G'day Stephen, I agree with the installer, I would go 5kw even if standalone is in the future.

mate, I've yet to see ANYONE who regrets going larger, my regret is that I went too small.

[Bushbasher]

No such thing as too big, lol. I have a 4.8kw system and would go bigger in a heart beat if I could. We're looking to go to a battery bank when the rebate gets cut here in 2016 and also looking into supplementing the solar with a wind generator for the overcast days.
Right now we jumped providers to get a better deal as AGL cut our rebate and upped the price of the power then refused to give us the 14% discount we had on our old contract. Dodo power now give us about the same power cost but we get our old feed in tariff rate and with a 20% pay on time discount.... which is mostly redundant as we should be in credit, for all but our mid winter bill, all the time anyway.

[poppa smurf]

Have you looked at wind turbines yet?.......

Something I'm not familiar with since council simply said "you are not having a 60' tower with a 30 ' blade turbine in your yard!"

the little fellers aren't all that powerful are they?

[FPV_Steve]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

G'day Stephen, I agree with the installer, I would go 5kw even if standalone is in the future.

mate, I've yet to see ANYONE who regrets going larger, my regret is that I went too small.

Originally Posted by Bushbasher

No such thing as too big, lol. I have a 4.8kw system and would go bigger in a heart beat if I could. We're looking to go to a battery bank when the rebate gets cut here in 2016 and also looking into supplementing the solar with a wind generator for the overcast days.
Right now we jumped providers to get a better deal as AGL cut our rebate and upped the price of the power then refused to give us the 14% discount we had on our old contract. Dodo power now give us about the same power cost but we get our old feed in tariff rate and with a 20% pay on time discount.... which is mostly redundant as we should be in credit, for all but our mid winter bill, all the time anyway.

Cheers guys!!

I was pretty sceptical when he said our usage would double over the next 12 months. I still think it was a sales tactic but doesn't really matter to me.

No issues going bigger if required, won't happen for a little while yet, so will probably end up missing out on the government rebate, but that can't be avoided unfortunately.

[Legit290]

i had mine done with Mark group.
I have a feeling you should shop around to get it cheaper.

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by FPV_Steve

Hi All,

Has anyone dealt with the "Mark Group" for solar installations etc?

Had a quote by them on Friday night and their rep recommended a 5.0kw system for our house. He based this off his very firm belief that our current power usage of 6kWh for the first 1 and a half months in our house will double in the next 12 months.

I find this hard to believe considering that the 6kWh avg. usage so far was with either my wife or I, or even both of us at home for most of that time. However we are back at work now so I imagine our electricity usage would drop a bit?

His decision was also based on future proofing our house for when we have kids & our electricity usage goes up, but I raised the point that battery storage for any extra electricity generated is not far away which might mean a smaller system could be sufficient. Eg: 3.5kw or 4.0kw systems.

While a smaller system (incl. battery storage) might not totally cover all our electricity needs in the future, surely it would make our bills pretty small or even give us a credit occasionally?

Can anyone help shed some light on the quote & my thoughts?

Cheers,

Stephen

Sorry to disagree with some other posters, but, if you are on a net FIT, or plan on keeping your system after the gross FIT ends, then the analysis is not simply KW produced vss kw used.

For net FIT It needs to include the usage graph for your home (eg peaks at 8am and 6pm with flat all day at 1kw). This then needs to be compared to your likely generation curves, with will need to take into account how many panels face which way, and what the weather is like (eg morning fogs for 80% of the year, tree shade at 12 noon).

If you are only concerned about Gross FIT, then, face the system as north as you can, and go as big as you can afford. Panel pacing other than north would give a different Cost benefit. Shade and weather patterns will still play a part.

[CJR09]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

Have you looked at wind turbines yet?.......

Something I'm not familiar with since council simply said "you are not having a 60' tower with a 30 ' blade turbine in your yard!"

the little fellers aren't all that powerful are they?

You dont need anything that big, thats basically commercial/industrial size - it would be nice but not really necessary

The "little fellers" will give you up to 1kw/hr @ 30kt wind speed with a turbine dia of about 1.5m down to 60w/hr @ 10kt wind speed - a very good supplement taking into account generation characteristics

[CJR09]

FWIW the Mark group is a very generic supply/install - one of their subsidiary's has just gone into reveivership - there will be plenty around that will be a able to give better product at a better rate - shop around

[FPV_Steve]

The 5kw system was using Renesola panels & a Fronius IG 60 HV inverter. System would cost us $10,099.00 cash or available on finance.

Was definitely going to shop around, but didn't realise they were another generic supply/install company.

Who else is worth calling for a quote?

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by FPV_Steve

The 5kw system was using Renesola panels & a Fronius IG 60 HV inverter. System would cost us $10,099.00 cash or available on finance.

Was definitely going to shop around, but didn't realise they were another generic supply/install company.

Who else is worth calling for a quote?

If you are prepared to pay 10k for 5kw, then try Metro Solar with enphase microinverters and JA 310w panels.

Especially good if you have any trees, or panels of more that two roof segments.

[Bushbasher]

If you're paying $10k+ for 5kws then you're getting shafted. Around here they're being advertised for under $7k.

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

Have you looked at wind turbines yet?.......

Something I'm not familiar with since council simply said "you are not having a 60' tower with a 30 ' blade turbine in your yard!"

the little fellers aren't all that powerful are they?

I've found an aussie made 2kw one that is 3.2m dia. It's not cheap though and once you factor in the tower, hybrid inverter and installation there would'nt be much change from $5k.

Have a look here-- http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Wind-Turbine-Generator-OZ-Wind-2kW-48Vdc-/231459649048

Watch the video clip.

[poppa smurf]

looks good, 2 kw was the biggest I could find as well (apart from industrial jobbies that council won't have a bar of.)

last I heard with these turbines is that they need a 15 knot average to be viable.......not sure if we have that all year round.

yeah! Steve.....look, 5 kilowatts of solar can be readily had for under $8,000 almost everywhere now, some a lot cheaper than that.

as a reference, take a look at EM solar, they install pretty much everywhere, and do "interest free" payments.

[Legit290]

I got a 7.5 from Mark group for 9 grand. You are getting done.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by CJR09

You dont need anything that big, thats basically commercial/industrial size - it would be nice but not really necessary

The "little fellers" will give you up to 1kw/hr @ 30kt wind speed with a turbine dia of about 1.5m down to 60w/hr @ 10kt wind speed - a very good supplement taking into account generation characteristics

Here's my experience with domestic wind turbines over the last 20 years

30 knots is near gale force winds by the way.

10 knots and 60 watts an hour?...may as well not bother.

Small wind turbines (under 2kw) are a complete and utter waste of money.


A 2kw turbine typically produces 200watts RMS an hour.

Turbine manufacturers quote peak power outputs, a bit like quoting "music power" in audio amplifiers.

The formula is...half it, then multiply by 0.7071


So... a 2kw turbine makes 707 watts in gale force winds.

So...it really makes about 200 watts in average winds....if it's labelled a 2kw unit...LOL

That's what you can really expect, as well as all the mechanical issues like broken blades from birds crashing into it.

[supershifty]

Originally Posted by zilo

Here's my experience with domestic wind turbines over the last 20 years

30 knots is near gale force winds by the way.

10 knots and 60 watts an hour?...may as well not bother.

Small wind turbines (under 2kw) are a complete and utter waste of money.


A 2kw turbine typically produces 200watts RMS an hour.

Turbine manufacturers quote peak power outputs, a bit like quoting "music power" in audio amplifiers.

The formula is...half it, then multiply by 0.7071


So... a 2kw turbine makes 707 watts in gale force winds.

So...it really makes about 200 watts in average winds....if it's labelled a 2kw unit...LOL

That's what you can really expect, as well as all the mechanical issues like broken blades from birds crashing into it.

Not promising by any means - but food for thought for the future though.

Infantile in it's state now, however could be promising in the future Zilo.

I'm still on grid, but you've made it off grid on one of your properties.

There's still hope for the rest of us yet mate.

Cheers!

[MNM96]

OK, so I am interested in data logging from my Inverter to my computer.

Who does this, and what do we use?

Mike

[zilo]

Originally Posted by MNM96

OK, so I am interested in data logging from my Inverter to my computer.

Who does this, and what do we use?

Mike

Much more info needed mate.

What brand / make of inverter for a start?

[Uninvitedgest]

Originally Posted by MNM96

OK, so I am interested in data logging from my Inverter to my computer.

Who does this, and what do we use?

Mike

SMA, KACO, Fronius, and the Selectronic SP PRO all offer monitoring in some form, other breeds of inverter i have not much knowledge on and I have been out of the game for over a year; but nearly all companies have their own brand of monitoring equipment and it is generally incompatible with other brands
I would recommend looking at your inverter's website as most reputable brands supply information about their comms systems and then contact their listed agent to arrange supply and install (it is not a job to do yourself as most comm connections involve opening the inverter exposing you to up to 500VDC of lethal power)
Hope this helps
Andrew