"Set Price"

[Crazy Dazz]

I've read a few posts lately, with people referring to "set prices".

Are these maximum prices set down by the manufacturers to prevent gouging with limited supply?

Otherwise, what has changed? Actually setting the price ("Retail Price Maintenance") has been illegal in Australia for the past 50 years.

[kypez]

Tesla does it, Honda is following that and a Mercedes is doing this with the EQ lineup. No haggling, no discounts, nothing. Order online and the price is set. Mercedes are side stepping their dealers in the process and Tesla doesn't have dealers anyway.

Think Subaru did it with the BRZ too and side stepped dealers.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[Franco Cozzo]

Good - now when can we buy new cars online and they turn up in our driveway before close of business if you ordered it before 10AM or next business day at the latest?

Buying a new car is such a ****ty customer experience with all the hoops you need to jump through and ****ers in dealerships.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by kypez

Tesla does it, Honda is following that and a Mercedes is doing this with the EQ lineup. No haggling, no discounts, nothing. Order online and the price is set. Mercedes are side stepping their dealers in the process and Tesla doesn't have dealers anyway.

Think Subaru did it with the BRZ too and side stepped dealers.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

As does Genesis.

I believe one of the larger manufacturers (Mercedes??) is being challenged in court by the Australian dealer network over this pricing structure.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

As does Genesis.



I believe one of the larger manufacturers (Mercedes??) is being challenged in court by the Australian dealer network over this pricing structure.

I think Hyundai are doing it with their electric range as well.

Not sure about the Mercedes court challenge though. I Might have to do some googling there.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Buying a new car is such a ****ty customer experience with all the hoops you need to jump through and ****ers in dealerships.

What?! You don't like being wheeled to the "accessories lady" in the hope they sell you some overpriced accessories?! And a coffee

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[fiestaz]

Originally Posted by kypez

What?! You don't like being wheeled to the "accessories lady" in the hope they sell you some overpriced accessories?! And a coffee

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

When we bought our i30, that lady was blown away that I could get tint for less than half the price she was offering and didn’t understand I didn’t want ceramic coating as I detail the cars myself.

I hate being in dealerships. The sales person for our i30 when I told her how much I wanted to pay, said give me your credit card to prove to my manager your serious. What a load of BS.

I’d much rather click and collect a new car (after driving it ofcourse).

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by kypez

What?! You don't like being wheeled to the "accessories lady" in the hope they sell you some overpriced accessories?! And a coffee

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

Or the “Ming Mole”

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by kypez

What?! You don't like being wheeled to the "accessories lady" in the hope they sell you some overpriced accessories?! And a coffee

Also known as the Ming Mole or Wynns Wench.

Dr Terry

[ozpacman]

Originally Posted by kypez

What?! You don't like being wheeled to the "accessories lady" in the hope they sell you some overpriced accessories?! And a coffee

Or the Bling B***h!

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by fiestaz

When we bought our i30, that lady was blown away that I could get tint for less than half the price she was offering and didn’t understand I didn’t want ceramic coating as I detail the cars myself.

I hate being in dealerships. The sales person for our i30 when I told her how much I wanted to pay, said give me your credit card to prove to my manager your serious. What a load of BS.

I’d much rather click and collect a new car (after driving it ofcourse).

Imagine if said lady in low cut top sold accessories that were around the going market rate - their conversation rate would be so much higher and they'd probably make more money at less gross profit margin.

I feel because of the dealership model it's always encouraged 'negotiation', which just causes price negotiations with potential customers, it's a really horrible method for both sales staff and customer, they just set a very high base price that no one will pay in anticipation for the 'negotiation' to occur.

Just put a value on it, sell it online, then you don't need a ridiculous building with ****ers in suits and a bunch of smarmy assholes on the books.

Even if you didn't want it delivered well then the customer could pick it up from the main preparation facility or something.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by kypez

I think Hyundai are doing it with their electric range as well.

Not sure about the Mercedes court challenge though. I Might have to do some googling there.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

https://www.drive.com.au/news/merced...e-sales-model/

https://www.drive.com.au/news/merced...-fast-tracked/

[vbomber]

Originally Posted by kypez

Tesla does it, Honda is following that and a Mercedes is doing this with the EQ lineup. No haggling, no discounts, nothing. Order online and the price is set. Mercedes are side stepping their dealers in the process and Tesla doesn't have dealers anyway.

Think Subaru did it with the BRZ too and side stepped dealers.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

Subaru are still doing it across their vehicle range if you buy from the dealers owned by the Subaru importer however if you find a independently owned dealer can still negotiate a discount.

[Bossxr8]

It's probably inevitable that most manufacturers will move to the set price model. A lot of them will be looking at Honda and seeing how they go. Doesn't look good for them so far, but then again, their cars are largely crap and not worth paying inflating prices for. Mercedes can get away with it because their buyers aren't likely people who would need to haggle anyway, or would find it beneath their status?

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

It's probably inevitable that most manufacturers will move to the set price model. A lot of them will be looking at Honda and seeing how they go. Doesn't look good for them so far, but then again, their cars are largely crap and not worth paying inflating prices for. Mercedes can get away with it because their buyers aren't likely people who would need to haggle anyway, or would find it beneath their status?

You'd be surprised about the haggling at a Mercedes dealership. No one ever pays retail there.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[hackney]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

It's probably inevitable that most manufacturers will move to the set price model. A lot of them will be looking at Honda and seeing how they go. Doesn't look good for them so far, but then again, their cars are largely crap and not worth paying inflating prices for. Mercedes can get away with it because their buyers aren't likely people who would need to haggle anyway, or would find it beneath their status?

Don’t know about that,I have just purchased a new HRV Hybrid(not due for delivery for a few weeks yet).They have a fairly healthy order bank for them, I think once this particular model finds its feet it will sell quite well.They are generating a lot of interest.The car it self wants for nothing, packed to the ‘gunnels’ with features.Interesting days ahead.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

It's probably inevitable that most manufacturers will move to the set price model. A lot of them will be looking at Honda and seeing how they go. Doesn't look good for them so far, but then again, their cars are largely crap and not worth paying inflating prices for. Mercedes can get away with it because their buyers aren't likely people who would need to haggle anyway, or would find it beneath their status?

Have to reply on this one that their cars are ‘crap’,nothing further from the truth.Civic is very good, overpriced?More than likely.CRV? Great car,I am just about to sell mine,typical Honda build quality & engineering.They have some good stuff coming down the line.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

It's probably inevitable that most manufacturers will move to the set price model.

Or, it could completely backfire on them.

Essentially they are trying to make an end-run around Australian Law. They are making Dealers sign contracts to become only "agents" and therefore claim that the Dealers are nolonger actually retailers.

There's three massive problems with this approach.

Firstly, 50 years ago the Australian Federal and High Courts would have said "yep, technically you are complying with a valid interpretation of the letter of the law."
Now days? LOL. They're more likely to tell Mercedes to drop their trousers and bend over. Just ask all the thousands of people who have technically complied with the letter of Tax, Companies, and Finance Legislation, only to have the High Court delivery the mother of all Pineapples.

The other problem is this: Exclusive agencies are technically illegal in Australia. In theory, anybody should be able to set themselves up to sell Mercedes (and anything else they want.) In practice the TPC, ACCC, and Courts have typically held that the measures used to exclude such arrangements are acceptable provided they don't lessen competition. HOWEVER, where is no competition, the courts have found in favour of the little guy.

Lastly, there has always been a reason that Manufacturers don't appoint agents. It's called "Agency Law". It's one of these old British Common Law doctrines that is a real head ****.
I'm paraphrasing centuries of case law here, but the basic underlying principle is that as an agent you can do anything the Principal can do, in their name.
Now obviously you can try and impose limits on this, via the Agency Agreement, but there are still big risks, the simplest being that any wrongdoing can also be blamed on the Principal.

[b0son]

So how do Apple get around it? Pricing of their products is remarkably uniform across multiple retailers?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by hackney

Have to reply on this one that their cars are ‘crap’,nothing further from the truth.Civic is very good, overpriced?More than likely.CRV? Great car,I am just about to sell mine,typical Honda build quality & engineering.They have some good stuff coming down the line.

They used to make good cars. They were ahead of the competition. Then they decided to become like Toyota.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

They used to make good cars. They were ahead of the competition. Then they decided to become like Toyota.

Still make very good cars.Absolutely nothing wrong with them.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by hackney

Still make very good cars.Absolutely nothing wrong with them.

Mechanically they're good, they're underpowered and boring though.

They used to make exciting cars, then they decided to kill off the Integra Type R/Type S, S2000 and then that absolute joke of the 8th generation 'Civic Type R' we got from the UK

The Civic Type R we got from the UK was absolute crap in comparison to the real 'FD2' Civic Type R Japan had, it was a 'Type R' only by name.

The Accord Euro was also another great car they killed.

The current model Civic Type R is great though, but its too little too late, they went from one of the great Japanese manufacturers, then tried to emulate Toyota with their white goods strategy (which has suddenly changed to attract younger buyers) and failed miserably.

What Bossxr8 says is correct in my eyes, you wouldn't get me in a Honda aside from the current model Civic Type R.

Honda should look into a RHD variation of the Ridgeline IMO, might be what their brand needs in our market thats obsessed with dual cab utes:

https://www.caranddriver.com/honda/ridgeline

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Honda should look into a RHD variation of the Ridgeline IMO, might be what their brand needs in our market thats obsessed with dual cab utes:

https://www.caranddriver.com/honda/ridgeline

On that topic where is Hyundai/Kia in the dual cab ute market. It's way overdue.

Dr Terry

[hackney]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Mechanically they're good, they're underpowered and boring though.

They used to make exciting cars, then they decided to kill off the Integra Type R/Type S, S2000 and then that absolute joke of the 8th generation 'Civic Type R' we got from the UK

The Civic Type R we got from the UK was absolute crap in comparison to the real 'FD2' Civic Type R Japan had, it was a 'Type R' only by name.

The Accord Euro was also another great car they killed.

The current model Civic Type R is great though, but its too little too late, they went from one of the great Japanese manufacturers, then tried to emulate Toyota with their white goods strategy (which has suddenly changed to attract younger buyers) and failed miserably.

What Bossxr8 says is correct in my eyes, you wouldn't get me in a Honda aside from the current model Civic Type R.

Honda should look into a RHD variation of the Ridgeline IMO, might be what their brand needs in our market thats obsessed with dual cab utes:

https://www.caranddriver.com/honda/ridgeline

My local Honda dealer has quite a few orders for the Type R manual.They are not due until much later this year, or possibly next.As far as the Ridgeline goes,it is never going to happen.The market is already over saturated.The funny thing is though, the CRV is one of the top sellers in the North American market.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by hackney

My local Honda dealer has quite a few orders for the Type R manual.They are not due until much later this year, or possibly next.As far as the Ridgeline goes,it is never going to happen.The market is already over saturated.The funny thing is though, the CRV is one of the top sellers in the North American market.

My local Honda dealership doesn't exist anymore

When I started my apprenticeship there it had the busiest service department in the country out of all the Honda dealerships, 12 years later the dealership doesn't exist anymore.

With the Civic Type R orders it shows you that people have a want for their capabilities, it's a shame Honda turned their back on their performance car capabilities for a good 15 years.

Bringing it back on topic there's another toxic side to the dealership model in that some have an incentive scheme for the service advisors and mechanics that if they hit certain profit averages across the working week they can receive bonuses.

Dealerships and LV automotive pays SFA in general, so they dangle the carrot to lowly paid people and it encourages poor and unethical behaviour when you set basic KPIs on gross profit figures without proper context around them - the amount of power steering flushes, AC deodorises and brake pad changes I did on near new cars that the service advisors upsold was ridiculous.

Banks have had a similar issue in the past but they got pulled up in an inquiry where their dodgy predatory behaviour got aired to the public.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

My local Honda dealership doesn't exist anymore

When I started my apprenticeship there it had the busiest service department in the country out of all the Honda dealerships, 12 years later the dealership doesn't exist anymore.

With the Civic Type R orders it shows you that people have a want for their capabilities, it's a shame Honda turned their back on their performance car capabilities for a good 15 years.

Bringing it back on topic there's another toxic side to the dealership model in that some have an incentive scheme for the service advisors and mechanics that if they hit certain profit averages across the working week they can receive bonuses.

Dealerships and LV automotive pays SFA in general, so they dangle the carrot to lowly paid people and it encourages poor and unethical behaviour when you set basic KPIs on gross profit figures without proper context around them - the amount of power steering flushes, AC deodorises and brake pad changes I did on new cars that the service advisors upsold was ridiculous.

We only have one in our area now, but the upside is that I have a service & parts centre set up on my side of town.The main sales area is on the other side of the city.Whether this agency style model is a success remains to be seen.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Bringing it back on topic there's another toxic side to the dealership model in that some have an incentive scheme for the service advisors and mechanics that if they hit certain profit averages across the working week they can receive bonuses.

Dealerships and LV automotive pays SFA in general, so they dangle the carrot to lowly paid people and it encourages poor and unethical behaviour when you set basic KPIs on gross profit figures without proper context around them - the amount of power steering flushes, AC deodorises and brake pad changes I did on near new cars that the service advisors upsold was ridiculous.

Banks have had a similar issue in the past but they got pulled up in an inquiry where their dodgy predatory behaviour got aired to the public.

Yep, I have a few mates who work as Service Advisors and without those bonuses, its hard to make ends meet. Its so bad one was saying. And if you don't get these "up sales", you get pulled up for not hitting targets. One finally got sick of it and quit. It hurt his ethics way too much. 20 years in the game and he stepped away completely now. This guy was at a Ford dealership.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kypez

Yep, I have a few mates who work as Service Advisors and without those bonuses, its hard to make ends meet. Its so bad one was saying. And if you don't get these "up sales", you get pulled up for not hitting targets. One finally got sick of it and quit. It hurt his ethics way too much. 20 years in the game and he stepped away completely now. This guy was at a Ford dealership.

Going rate in Melbourne is $1000/week for an LV mechanic, a bit less for a spud and a bit more for a star - they've got a serious problem getting people into the industry and it got worse during COVID because they were relying on 457 visas to fill skills shortages.

Because the wages are junk, you either end up with people who are really passionate about the industry, but then throw in the towel once they get sick of it, or the spuds of society, because the contrast with our construction industry is so vast, the few kids you get doing apprenticeships, get sucked up by our construction industry and it leaves a small pool of left overs for the LV auto trades.

Throw in crap wages and predatory KPI's and its a recipe for what the automotive industry has been for a while, its why everyone hates car dealerships and to a degree auto tradies.

[hackney]

It now looks like @ least 50% of manufacturers will be going to an agency style model in the UK.VW,Alfa Romeo,DS automobiles,MB & Lotus.This is going to happen here eventually.I have no problem with it, but many will not like this type of purchasing a vehicle this way.I paid a fixed price for my Honda HRV Hybrid.(still to be delivered).This seems the way of the future.

[DJM83]

In Dec last year we ordered a new hyundai tuscan.
When chatting to the dealer about price, he just bought up the hyundai oz website.
This the price. End of story basically. Made it so much easier.