Freo vs Saints whats your opinion???

crannersEL · 30-04-2006, 10:27 PM

Im guessing most people have heard about todays game against Fremantle and StKilda and the issues with the final siren and the draw.

What was the AFL's final say on the matter?

What do you think about the game being played after the final siren, just because the ump didnt hear it?

Paul

LukeyBAXR6 · 30-04-2006, 10:32 PM

Quote:

League launches probe
8:03:26 PM Sun 30 April, 2006
Paul Gough
Sportal for afl.com.au

The AFL has launched an official investigation into the controversial finish to the St Kilda-Fremantle clash in Launceston on Sunday.

The league refused to be drawn on Sunday night into whether the official result - a draw - would stand after St Kilda kicked a behind through Steven Baker after the umpires failed to hear the final siren with the Dockers one point in front.

Fremantle launched an official protest after the game after coach Chris Connolly and chief executive Cameron Schwab stated their team should have won the game given they were leading when time officially elapsed.

However no decision on the final outcome of the match is expected now until Monday at the earliest.

"The AFL is conducting an investigation into the circumstances surrounding the end of the match in Launceston between St Kilda and Fremantle, following a complaint received by the Fremantle Football Club after the match," AFL football operations manager Adrian Anderson said in a released statement from the league on Sunday night.

The AFL refused to discuss any of the details of the controversial finish, following a meeting between league heavyweights on Sunday night, only adding to its statement that 'there will be no further update from the AFL this evening'.

The drama unfolded when the siren - which was quiet throughout the course of the match - was not heard by field umpire Matthew Nicholls with the Saints trailing by one point but deep in attack.

The Dockers players heard the siren with Byron Schammer clearly seen telling the umpire the siren had sounded and that Fremantle had won the game as the umpire prepared to re-start play, having called for a bounce.

Play then continued for about 15 seconds as Fremantle players surrounded the umpires telling them the game was over.

As play continued the Saints then won the clearance with the ball ending in the hands of Baker, whose shot at goal missed but levelled the scores.

Incredibly as chaos ensued with Fremantle coach Connolly and key officials already on the ground protesting, Baker was offered another kick having been bumped illegally after his shot at goal.

His initial behind was cancelled, with the Dockers thinking they had been awarded the match as a result, but Baker had another shot and missed again with the game being declared a draw at 94 points apiece, denying the Dockers what would have been their first ever win in Tasmania.

Under AFL rules a game or a quarter is not declared over until the umpire has heard the siren and signalled the end of the game or quarter.

In the past this had led to countless debates about whether certain goals should have been awarded from marks taken right on the siren at quarter, half and three-quarter-time, given that often those marks have been taken after the siren has sounded but before the umpire could signal the end the quarter.

However it is rare for play to continue after the final siren has sounded and for the outcome of a match to be changed as a result as the siren is supposed to continue sounding until the umpires hear it.

The last time this occurred was in the 1980 night grand final when Kerry Good kicked the winning goal for North Melbourne against Collingwood to give the Roos' a three-point win when the umpires failed to hear the final siren when Malcolm Blight had the ball in the middle of Waverley Park - just before he kicked it to the leading Good with Collingwood in front by three points.

The result of that game stood but there is a precedent for the result of a league game to be overturned on appeal but it happened more than a century ago and ironically also involved St Kilda.

It was in the opening round of 1900 and St Kilda was awarded a victory over Melbourne on protest - their first ever win in the competition having lost every match in their first three seasons - after the game had initially been declared a draw.

The league awarded the game to the Saints some six days later after ruling that the field umpire had wrongly allowed a mark to be paid to Melbourne's captain after the final siren, from which a behind was scored making the game a draw - with the league instead ruling the behind should be cancelled with the Saints awarded a one-point win.

I think it's quite crap, and if i was a Fremantle supporter i would be jumping up and down to. This is a worst case scenario in my opinion, the League needs to get the rule changed ASAP and the stadium must do something about there siren.

Surely with a lot of people, including Fremantle players screaming at the umpiring he would have actually stopped to check that the siren hadn't gone. It's quite a load of crap, I personally don't think the result will be overturned, but i do hope.

**Polyal** · 30-04-2006, 10:32 PM

Well I am a saints fan, but if I was a freo supporter I would be SPEWING!!!

We didn't deserve any points from that game, id be very suprised if it doesn't get turned around. But if it stays, im going to be very pi$sed off at baker, he had two shots and still missed! He kicks a footy for a living FFS.

Either way what an ending!! I was yelling at the telly for the last 5 mins.

eminvil_12 · 30-04-2006, 10:48 PM

It's an absolute JOKE !!!

The win should be awarded to Fremantle no questions asked.
Maybe the umpires need to invest in hearing aids, not to mention visual aids !!!

HLC · 30-04-2006, 11:09 PM

Gay-fl... :|

JTFG · 30-04-2006, 11:12 PM

Well as some people may know on the forums I'm a pretty keen Freo fan and my god was I p1ssed off, never really swore at the TV before :P

But it's really good now this has gotten such big publicity and everyone agrees that the 4 points should go Freo.

Also I wonder how many weeks Fraser Gehrig will get.

**Polyal** · 30-04-2006, 11:16 PM

Oh Gehrig did nothing....a love tap...the dockers were all over him.

JTFG · 30-04-2006, 11:16 PM

even if he doesn't get anything it was still funny to watch

MickyB · 30-04-2006, 11:28 PM

Freo deserved to win the game for sure, but the AFL won't reverse the decision. As Thomas said, the game isn't over until the umpire blows his whistle and raises his hands. I heard on SEN tonight that someone reviewing the tape of the game (a 13 yr old supporter i think) raised the point that the Channel 9 time goes from 2:36 to 2:27 in one jump, probably irrelevant, but a bit strange all the same.

LTDHO · 01-05-2006, 07:41 AM

I thought the game was over with the siren and the the ump blows the whistle as confirmation. So you could play for as long as you like after the siren and each score wouldn't be recorded.

How can the ump not hear the siren?

crannersEL · 01-05-2006, 08:24 AM

The TAB have paid out winnings as if it was a draw i heard this morning so this could also effect the final decissions.

Fraser Gehrig will prob get 2 weeks for striking im guessing.

FPV8U · 01-05-2006, 09:18 AM

The result is a joke and must be changed! (No im not a freo Fan)

DivHunter · 01-05-2006, 12:51 PM

It was played in Launceston, what more do you want to know? Shouldn't the Siren not have gone when it supposedly did anyway seeing as play was stopped? Meaning the siren would have to go again (they have gone off prematurely before) to stop the game?

Meh who cares, this is what matters from last weekend's footy:
Anthony Rocca (5)
Chris Tarrant (4)
Nathan Buckley (4)

And Essendon wtf were they doing lol 2 potentially match winning kicks out on the full and one from the goal square! Looks like they have forgotten how to play wet weather footy with the dominance of the pansy pass(tm) game thinking they could run 8 mins with a 1 goal lead.

Ringo · 01-05-2006, 01:02 PM

There is no debate. Play stops on the umpire's whistle. That was the rule before, during and after the game. It's a draw. End of story - move onto the next round.

The procedure is the bit that needs to be looked at to minimise the time b/w the siren sounding and the umpire calling the game.

RG · 01-05-2006, 01:03 PM

: The siren blew at the same time that the ump was bouncing the ball, which we wll know can't happen. Looks like a timekeepers mistake to me.

As for Essendon, don't get me started on them.

:

Walkinshaw · 01-05-2006, 01:11 PM

If somone made a mistake like that in a "real job" they would be sacked no questions asked. Why are ump's any diffrent? They need to stop hiding behind AFL's rules regarding "umpire protection" and face the music every single week. Don't like it? Get another job

Mack 6 · 01-05-2006, 01:14 PM

Tassie should get louder sirens or less yelling fans.

I picked saints and my footy tipping comp gave a point to everyone for the draw and won't be taken away if they rule freo gets the 4 points.

A little annoying, but the rules are the rules.

01-05-2006, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ringo

There is no debate. Play stops on the umpire's whistle. That was the rule before, during and after the game. It's a draw. End of story - move onto the next round.

The procedure is the bit that needs to be looked at to minimise the time b/w the siren sounding and the umpire calling the game.

End of discussion right there. Thems the rules, the umpire has final say when the game is off, and he didnt hear it.

I am a saints fan by the way, but I think, if the rules were disregarded, that Saints should accept the loss. I can understand Freo's anger...

Bucket · 01-05-2006, 02:06 PM

All true..but lets say the game goes on for a further few minutes because the referee hasnt heard the Siren...what happens then?? It all gets a bit rediculous i think

crannersEL · 01-05-2006, 02:14 PM

Just think if stkilda ended up kicking that goal at the end rather than the point how much freo would be not happy jan.

JTFG · 01-05-2006, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crannersEL

Just think if stkilda ended up kicking that goal at the end rather than the point how much freo would be not happy jan.

so true

_

DJL351 · 01-05-2006, 02:18 PM

One pi$$ed Freo fan here!

:

I've said it before I'll say it again..... "Rulz is rules Macca!"

:

Maybe they should get rid of the siren and use a watch.... like they do in soccer. <shudder>

D

:

svo347 · 01-05-2006, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fairmont99

It was played in Launceston, what more do you want to know? Shouldn't the Siren not have gone when it supposedly did anyway seeing as play was stopped? Meaning the siren would have to go again (they have gone off prematurely before) to stop the game?

Do i need to be drunk to understand this????.....

FRA · 01-05-2006, 02:56 PM

This is Lorraine here and I can tell you even us girls aren't too happy.......I have been a HUGE AFL fan now for years and I think if you can't do it in the time given.....THEN GIVE UP!!!! And I LOVE the Saints!

turboute · 01-05-2006, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ringo

There is no debate. Play stops on the umpire's whistle. That was the rule before, during and after the game. It's a draw. End of story - move onto the next round.

The procedure is the bit that needs to be looked at to minimise the time b/w the siren sounding and the umpire calling the game.

So if the umpire tripped up and broke his whistle play would never end?
I fthe umpires had that much control why do they have a timekeeper who blows the siren, and why do the umpires not check/update the match time themselves? The umpires have too much pressure to keep an eye on the play they can not manage the time keeping duties themselves. Therefore there is a guy who manages time for them to stop them having the problems.

In my opinion it isn't the umpires fault though, it's the ground management's / AFL's fault for not making sure there was a decent horn that could be heard.

Sainter · 01-05-2006, 05:07 PM

As a Saints fan I'm happy we got some points. However, the umpire should be shot. This whole thing is a joke. Freo players were jumping and yelling at the ump and he just shook them off. What a tool.

**TUF_302** · 01-05-2006, 05:21 PM

Fremantle were robbed, its no harder than that, sorry to the saints fans but i think freo has been very hard done by.

eminvil_12 · 01-05-2006, 05:26 PM

Another scenario.

Cricket match.
1 ball left with 2 runs to win, batsmen hits a single.
umpire thinks theres another ball.
Batsmen then hits another single to draw the match.

The umpire should be sacked.

Im a carlton supporter, so in no way do i like fremantle.
I think any team in there situation would do the same thing !!!

rapidxr6 · 01-05-2006, 05:28 PM

I used to do the time keeping for our local football club when i was 14-17.
Funny enough "that" was a common thing to happen in our league. So it was protocol to sound the bloody siren again and again till the dumb- white maggot can hear it..!!..
Freo was robbed no questions asked.

Kenaz · 01-05-2006, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fairmont99

And Essendon wtf were they doing lol... Looks like they have forgotten how to play wet weather footy with the dominance of the pansy pass(tm) game thinking they could run 8 mins with a 1 goal lead.

It's been ages since we (Essendon) knew how to play wet weather footy. Our wet weather record over the last 5 years is terrible. I blame Telstra Dome.