Falcon Ecoboost vs EcoLPI - the daily proposition

[Franco Cozzo]

Good morning ladies, gentlemen, spaceships, unicorns and ASIO

Considering replacing my tired LV TDCI Focus with either an Ecoboost Falcon sedan or an EcoLPI Falcon Ute, the Focus is still mechanically OK but body wise it's got air leaks from the door seals and the rear quarter windows have been leaking water for a long time now

There's a couple fairly cheap Ecoboost povvo spec Falcon sedans circling the second hand markets around the Eastern seaboard.

At the moment my daily commute is around 110km, 90% country highway, 10% suburban driving, I generally have an average speed of 70km/h across 850km or so between refills, at the moment a refill costs around $65 in diesel, average cost for kilometre works out to around 7.5 cents or there about over the last 5000km I've been tracking costs. Using around 5.3-5.7L/100km consistently in diesel and the car gets a bit of a hard time.

No requirement for a ute but it would come in handy due to cheaper rego costs because I live out with the dinosaurs, if I'm going the LPG route then it would be a ute, also no diff bushes.

Looking at FGII with maximum kilometres of 130,000km on the clock.

Car will do the odd interstate trip once or twice a year but I don't go remote, primarily Melbourne to Adelaide or Melbourne to Sydney.

Tows a 6x4 box trailer fairly often but I doubt this would be a problem for a Falcon.

Pros/Cons of these options, what they're like to live with as a daily and has anyone got real world examples of Ecoboost and EcoLPI Falcon?

Alternatively have also been considering LPG VF Commodore in povvo spec Evoke trim - have a VF SV6 Sportwagon with 3.6L LFX engine pool car at work and it does 8L/100km on my work commute, I think the VF LPG cars are more fuel efficient than the EcoLPI though a deficit of power and torque.

Had considered MD Mondeo Trend or Ambiente but they're around twice the price and I'm suspect on how well it's body would deal with my abusive driving style, towing and our crappy road conditions since the Focus hasn't fared real well over the 211,000km since I've owned it new.

[BENT_8]

What about a ZB Commodore?
Good straight line speed, good brakes, good for towing, good aero, fuel efficient and as no one really knows what they are, cheap.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

What about a ZB Commodore?
Good straight line speed, good brakes, good for towing, good aero, fuel efficient and as no one really knows what they are, cheap.

Had considered, would cross shop it against MD Mondeo but I think the Mondeo would drive better, has a broader range of peak torque rather than just between 3000-4000 RPM like the ZB Commodore

[EBSXR6]

Is there LPG available close to home?

[Citroënbender]

Alfa 147GTA. You only live once, this is in line with your proclaimed heritage as well.

[minheim]

If planning to keep the new car for a while I would be cautious about a dedicated LPG falcon especially if planning interstate trips out of Victoria. The ecoboost falcon looks a better proposition.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Id buy an FG2 Ecoboost for the simple fact that GAS is only getting harder to find.

Good solid car the FG2 and the ecoboosts seem pretty bullet proof (and cheap coz apparently no one wants them).

The only other option for me would be a MD Mondeo Diesel, ours has only done 80k but has been pretty faultless. Not sure how they would cope on poor roads but the taxi companies in the UK seem to get a good long term run out of them. The economy blows my mind, but they are dearer to service with the DCT needing a service every 60k.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Good morning ladies, gentlemen, spaceships, unicorns and ASIO

Considering replacing my tired LV TDCI Focus .

A Blinged up Thai Dualcab ...

[Citroënbender]

I thought Franco had gone a bit quiet, so I called his office and asked them to check on him:

Source

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by EBSXR6

Is there LPG available close to home?

Yeah, my local servo and the one near work both have LPG.

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Alfa 147GTA. You only live once, this is in line with your proclaimed heritage as well.

Would be good for weight loss becoming a cyclist with my 110km commute

Originally Posted by minheim

If planning to keep the new car for a while I would be cautious about a dedicated LPG falcon especially if planning interstate trips out of Victoria. The ecoboost falcon looks a better proposition.

Its a concern, realistically I've had my Focus for a decade now so I tend to hold onto my dailies for a long time.

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

Id buy an FG2 Ecoboost for the simple fact that GAS is only getting harder to find.

Good solid car the FG2 and the ecoboosts seem pretty bullet proof (and cheap coz apparently no one wants them).

The only other option for me would be a MD Mondeo Diesel, ours has only done 80k but has been pretty faultless. Not sure how they would cope on poor roads but the taxi companies in the UK seem to get a good long term run out of them. The economy blows my mind, but they are dearer to service with the DCT needing a service every 60k.

I'm hesitant to buy another diesel car and don't want anything with a DSG as they're too fragile, while my Focus has been reliable it had the EGR disabled early on in its life, it doesn't have a DPF and it's manual.

I do like the MD Mondeo wagon, or even the hatch but basically the FGII Falcon with the same engine under the hood with a ZF behind it is literally half the price, plus RWD

Originally Posted by hayseed

A Blinged up Thai Dualcab ...

PX Ranger single cab with a tub or cab chassis, 17" alloys, lowered 20-30mm with Shockworks magic all round and a 2.3L Ecoboost and I'm sold!

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

I thought Franco had gone a bit quiet, so I called his office and asked them to check on him:

image

Source

Was in the air between Melbourne and Brisbane when I made the OP - in flight Wifi courtesy of QANTAS.

Now I'm at work on lunch

[BENT_8]

Nice silver FG2 G6 Ecoboost here in Adelaide with 135k for under 10k Franco.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Nice silver FG2 G6 Ecoboost here in Adelaide with 135k for under 10k Franco.

Just had a look on car sales, couldn't see it, is it on Facebook marketplace?

[Swordie]

I'd go for the Ecoboost sedan over a the ute if doing lots of kms. It will be more comfortable, more space plus handle better with more airbags. Ecoboost don't seem that popular and seems some well specified ones can be found like the G6. Ecoboost sedan tows 1600kg where as the petrol is around 2300kg.

[Mr Brooksy]

It's funny, Tony, Linz, Greg and I were talking yesterday about the Ecoboost Falcons and saying how much of an interesting little package they are. Especially now that the Ecoboost has been tuned a bit here and there.

I'd take the Ecoboost over the LPG for one reason alone. Tune-ability.

An LPG NA i6 is a great motor, but ultimately (even though faster stock vs stock) the turbo 4 will have so much more potential. The only question we all had was the reliability aspect. If you break an i6, there are a million out there ready to swap in. But the turbo 4 will be much more expensive to replace and aftermarket parts is potentially a question mark.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Mr Brooksy

It's funny, Tony, Linz, Greg and I were talking yesterday about the Ecoboost Falcons and saying how much of an interesting little package they are. Especially now that the Ecoboost has been tuned a bit here and there.

I'd take the Ecoboost over the LPG for one reason alone. Tune-ability.

An LPG NA i6 is a great motor, but ultimately (even though faster stock vs stock) the turbo 4 will have so much more potential. The only question we all had was the reliability aspect. If you break an i6, there are a million out there ready to swap in. But the turbo 4 will be much more expensive to replace and aftermarket parts is potentially a question mark.

I'd say with an EFR 6258 it would wake up very quickly

It's the same engine as what's in an LW Focus ST, there's an issue with the high pressure fuel pump not being able to keep up once you start talking 350hp, and then weak ring lands on pistons after you do auxiliary port injection fuelling

You're on the money with parts availability but that's the same as my LV TDCI Focus, I've got a cracked intake pipe that makes squealing noises but it has a unique flange connecting to the turbo but they were made obsolete after a few years and they're impossible to get from wreckers.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Just had a look on car sales, couldn't see it, is it on Facebook marketplace?

Gumtree, its in a yard called Auto's123 or something at Mile End, was formerly Zooper Cars, a susidiary of the Stillwell group, Prydey bought his Tezza from them.

Still listed, easyauto123.com.au

[smoo]

Why would you take an Ecoboost over a 4.0?
The 4.0 in FG and ZF6 with a 90 % highway will return mid 7s easy.
And the greatest benefit of them is change the oil & filter every 10k and not worry about them. They would have to be one of the greatest petrol engines around as far as longevity goes wouldn't they.

I'll throw a recommendation out there.
Check out the Citroen C5.
I have a diesel one and do 220km a day.
Hydro suspension and I've never had a better ride quality. Seriously awesome highway cruisers.
Best is 5.2l/100km. Usually get 5.6-6.0.
2.2 diesel. Comparable power and torque figures to a lot of the wheezing Thai specials with larger capacities 15 years later (Hilux, Navara, Colorado etc).
Wagon isn't too much smaller than a Falcon/Commdore.
French car so resale is rubbish. Capitalise on it.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Gumtree, its in a yard called Auto's123 or something at Mile End, was formerly Zooper Cars, a susidiary of the Stillwell group, Prydey bought his Tezza from them.

Still listed, easyauto123.com.au

If you are after something cheap and cheerful, our range of Budget cars will get the job done. Budget cars may have covered a little more road in our beautiful country, or may have a few more blemishes, but nothing that affects safety.

Budget cars often have a few more dents and scratches or show a little more wear and tear.

Thats me all over

Its not listed on their website but its on Gumtree and Carsguide - I've reached out to them.

Thanks for the heads up.

I've contacted someone in Brisbane with a povvo spec XT with low KM too.

I'm after a white or silver car, preferably white, my cars live outside permanently.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by smoo

Why would you take an Ecoboost over a 4.0?
The 4.0 in FG and ZF6 with a 90 % highway will return mid 7s easy.
And the greatest benefit of them is change the oil & filter every 10k and not worry about them. They would have to be one of the greatest petrol engines around as far as longevity goes wouldn't they.

I'll throw a recommendation out there.
Check out the Citroen C5.
I have a diesel one and do 220km a day.
Hydro suspension and I've never had a better ride quality. Seriously awesome highway cruisers.
Best is 5.2l/100km. Usually get 5.6-6.0.
2.2 diesel. Comparable power and torque figures to a lot of the wheezing Thai specials with larger capacities 15 years later (Hilux, Navara, Colorado etc).
Wagon isn't too much smaller than a Falcon/Commdore.
French car so resale is rubbish. Capitalise on it.

image

I've done some interesting things in my short lifespan, dunno if I'm brave enough to go the French car

Mind you the engine in my Focus is a PSA DW10 engine which is a joint effort with those bastards and it has Siemens engine management which explains why its done in a way which defies logic.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I've done some interesting things in my short lifespan, dunno if I'm brave enough to go the French car

Mind you the engine in my Focus is a PSA DW10 engine which is a joint effort with those bastards and it has Siemens engine management which explains why its done in a way which defies logic.

Same engine I think, just smaller. I think diesel was one thing they got right.
That one has over 330k on it.
Not major km for a Falcon.
But I'd probably buy another, newer model if it **** itself and I still had a need for an economical car.

[EBSXR6]

I have a 2013 G6E Ecolpi, 109,000 Kms.
Always run it with Climate Control.
Service costs are higher than Petrol.
Commute from Doncaster East to Clayton fuel use according to computer is around 19 L/!100.
Don't do a lot of country driving but jumped on Eastlink and reset trip commuter tonight and fuel dropped to 11.7L/100.

Massive price difference in LPG the other night filled up at 60.4 /Litre and few Km away some rip off merchant charging 81.9 / Litre.

[Citroënbender]

DW10 is 2 litre, DW12 is the 2.2, both are failsafe design top ends where if the cam belt breaks, the rockers shatter. You simply pick up the shrapnel, fit new rockers (sub $300) new belt and off you go again. Used to be easy money for the people who knew this, buying “economic write offs” from those who didn’t.

The degaussing front mounted CAS is an irritation unless you replace it on an avionics style schedule.

[janddbone]

LPI ute for the win.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by EBSXR6

I have a 2013 G6E Ecolpi, 109,000 Kms.
Always run it with Climate Control.
Service costs are higher than Petrol.
Commute from Doncaster East to Clayton fuel use according to computer is around 19 L/!100.
Don't do a lot of country driving but jumped on Eastlink and reset trip commuter tonight and fuel dropped to 11.7L/100.

Massive price difference in LPG the other night filled up at 60.4 /Litre and few Km away some rip off merchant charging 81.9 / Litre.

That's been a good thing about diesel - the price is very stable, it doesn't vary up and down hugely like both unleaded and LPG seem to.

Put it into perspective, couple other cars in our family fleet on the same trips with the same driver (yours truly lol)

WZ Fiesta ST - 6.5L/100km
WS Fiesta CL - 6.3L/100km (this looks good but its the same car as the above with half as much torque and half as much power, what a ****box)
Lebonator - 15L/100km
LV Focus - 5.5L/100km

If you compare my diesel Focus to the old man's ST - the Focus is pretty lame, they both make the same amount of torque (320nm), the ST makes an extra 60KW though - Mountune package.

[383hq]

I am in a similar situation to yourself
I side stepped from a 2012 MC mondeo tdci (which I really enjoyed until service time) to a FG 2 falcon, 2013. I tend to buy a car thats 1-3 yr old with low km, run the km up to around 200k and sell it, then rinse and repeat, but I"m at 155k on the FG2 and can't see myself selling this one at 200k.

Any money saved on the fuel efficiency of the TDCI was spent on Servicing, but it was a great car. MC tdci was 1000-1200km tank (driving at 110-130 km/h, 95% highway) but at 190,000 km, I lay awake at night knowing any failure would require costly parts - turbo, fuel injection, fuel pump, gearbox etc, so i traded it in and bought a low km xr6 as I had no yard stick to measure highway longevity of the tdci mondeo.

FG2 4 litre, oil is still golden at 15k km on highway runs. I did some oil analysis at 23k and it was still well good - could have changed oil filters and gone 25k-30k km (synthetic)

I've done 110k km now in the FG2 and love its simplicty. Just get use to filling up 550-650k km if you sit on 110+ km/h regularly. I feel like it'll last mechanically until 3-400k km easily with highway driving, its probably closer to 700k km in reality...

I dunno about people who get 7L/100 km - that equates to just under 1000km/tank at 68 L. I've never seen 800k km out of a 4L falcon, let alone range starting with a nine.
Maybe I just don't want to waste my life driving for hours at 96km/h

Never an issue with the mondeo, and thought I had a slight cooling problem with the falcon after I'd driven it 90k km, so precautionary change of drive belt, tensioner, thermostat, and coolant (about $250 in parts)

PS Don't knock the french - they'll let you do 130 on the freeway, let em get on with their revolution

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by 383hq

I am in a similar situation to yourself
I side stepped from a 2012 MC mondeo (which I really enjoyed until service time) to a FG 2 falcon, 2013. I tend to buy a car thats 1-3 yr old with low km, run the km up to around 200k and sell it, then rinse and repeat, but I"m at 155k on the FG2 and can't see myself selling this one at 200k.

Any money saved on the fuel efficiency of the TDCI was spent on Servicing, but it was a great car. MC tdci was 1000-1200km tank (driving at 110-130 km/h, 95% highway) but at 190,000 km, I lay awake at night knowing any failure would require costly parts - turbo, fuel injection, fuel pump, gearbox etc, so i traded it in and bought a low km xr6 as I had no yard stick to measure highway longevity of the tdci mondeo.

FG2 4 litre, oil is still golden at 15k km on highway runs. I did some oil analysis at 23k and it was still well good - could have changed oil filters and gone 25k-30k km (synthetic)

I've done 110k km now in the FG2 and love its simplicty. Just get use to filling up 550-650k km if you sit on 110+ km/h regularly. I feel like it'll last mechanically until 3-400k km easily with highway driving, its probably closer to 700k km in reality...

I dunno about people who get 7L/100 km - that equates to just under 1000km/tank at 68 L. I've never seen 800k km out of a 4L falcon, let alone range starting with a nine.
Maybe I just don't want to waste my life driving for hours at 96km/h

Never an issue with the mondeo, and thought I had a slight cooling problem with the falcon after I'd driven it 90k km, so precautionary change of drive belt, tensioner, thermostat, and coolant (about $250 in parts)

PS Don't knock the french - they'll let you do 130 on the freeway, let em get on with their revolution

Thats interesting on the fuel economy you got out of the Mondeo, they both have the same engine, did it have a larger tank? Doesn't matter if I drive from home to Adelaide or just my daily commute to work, fuel economy doesn't really change:



the 6.1L/100km was my return trip from Adelaide - average speed was much higher

Going over there, yep 5.7L/100km even though I go point to point without stopping.

Also always with the A/C on - its never really been turned off, I leave it on and control the temperature with the heater.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

DW10 is 2 litre, DW12 is the 2.2, both are failsafe design top ends where if the cam belt breaks, the rockers shatter. You simply pick up the shrapnel, fit new rockers (sub $300) new belt and off you go again. Used to be easy money for the people who knew this, buying “economic write offs” from those who didn’t.

The degaussing front mounted CAS is an irritation unless you replace it on an avionics style schedule.

Had the timing belt, tensioner and water pump done on the Focus at around 180,000km.

The bolt in the balancer came half way out then ****ing snapped in the crank

I've also flogged out a couple full sets of engine mounts but its tuned.

[Citroënbender]

You were only 20K late on the belt by recommended scheduling, so safe as houses. Not the first snapped crank bolt I’ve heard of - winding them in and out a few times before full removal, has been mooted.

[oldel]

How good are you are welding or replacing turbos? The wastegate actuator arm seems to be made of pot metal on the ecoboost. Search "ecoboost turbo rattle" or "ecoboost wastegate rattle" Who knows what else is going to make an ecoboost uneconomical to repair in the future?

Barra for long term ownership, the ecoboost was never made to do 200k kms+ imo.
Barras are the last of the cast block dinosaurs and because it's so old in design is the reason why it will run the longest. Because we're apparently a backwater and also because ford USA let us keep the barra for so long, we got left with probably the worlds most reliable late model engine.

[jstanovic]

Originally Posted by smoo

Why would you take an Ecoboost over a 4.0?
The 4.0 in FG and ZF6 with a 90 % highway will return mid 7s easy.
And the greatest benefit of them is change the oil & filter every 10k and not worry about them. They would have to be one of the greatest petrol engines around as far as longevity goes wouldn't they.

I'll throw a recommendation out there.
Check out the Citroen C5.
I have a diesel one and do 220km a day.
Hydro suspension and I've never had a better ride quality. Seriously awesome highway cruisers.
Best is 5.2l/100km. Usually get 5.6-6.0.
2.2 diesel. Comparable power and torque figures to a lot of the wheezing Thai specials with larger capacities 15 years later (Hilux, Navara, Colorado etc).
Wagon isn't too much smaller than a Falcon/Commdore.
French car so resale is rubbish. Capitalise on it.

image

A bit off topic but any details on the W116? Plans for it?