"Sealed" Batteries - Have we been conned?

[Crazy Dazz]

Like many people, I still have functioning lead-acid batteries that are almost a decade old. The batteries on my boat are ancient, but they keep working and because I have multiples, they keep doing the job. Just keep topping them up and charging them.

I've just disposed of a bunch of batteries, all relatively new, and all expensive models, all useless, and all supposedly "sealed".
Except they're not.

They still have vents, which means that gasses and some vapour still escapes.
What they are is non-refillable.

From what I could tell, from the translucent models, they were all low on water. I toyed with the idea of drilling holes in the top, but couldn't think of what to use as plugs.

Supposedly technology has moved beyond the need to top up batteries, and perhaps for some it has, but clearly not for these.

[roddy1960]

I've pretty much always used Century batteries but lately I've not done that well out of them . They're a sore point for me . Next time I might try something else ..like Delkor or whatever .

[falconhell74]

If you want a truly sealed battery you need to get an AGM (absorbed glass mat) battery

[Electrolyte Burns]

If they were looking low then it's entirely possible they were being overcharged.
Sealed batteries should not go as high in Voltage when charging.

[arronm]

No use telling us. Tell Ford.

[Itsme]

The average car battery life span these days is about 4 to 6 years, if you get more then consider yourself lucky.

How often do owners check the Alternator, wiring, battery, cables & connections for maintenance? it would have to be the most abused bit of equipment in a car for regular maintenance.

Cheers.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

I've pretty much always used Century batteries but lately I've not done that well out of them . They're a sore point for me . Next time I might try something else ..like Delkor or whatever .

yeah, me to. Not as good as they once were.

[Franco Cozzo]

For what ever reason my LV Focus kills batteries every 12-18 months ever since I bought it new off the showroom floor, may be because of diesel engine though with vibrations, tight engine bay, heat etc.

Retrofitted the big-*** DIN85L into it which has another circa 200CCA capacity about 2 years ago, its starting to get a bit slow to crank in mornings.

The thing with non sealed batteries is 99% of people didn't maintain them anyway so its a moot point.

I'm big on Century - anything with the yellow and blue case is Australian made, but I've moved to ACDelco, out of all the cars I've replaced batteries on - AC Delco have consistently lasted the longest.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

The thing with non sealed batteries is 99% of people didn't maintain them anyway so its a moot point.

I've been using them for a RAP system, in my case they do get checked regularly.
With the older Century 200amp "Truck and Farm" I usually get 10-12 years out of a system like this because they can be maintained.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

I've been using them for a RAP system, in my case they do get checked regularly.
With the older Century 200amp "Truck and Farm" I usually get 10-12 years out of a system like this because they can be maintained.

They still have a range of non sealed industrial batteries:

https://www.centurybatteries.com.au/.../8d-n200z/info

https://www.centurybatteries.com.au/...ery/c1275/info

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

They still have a range of non sealed industrial batteries:

https://www.centurybatteries.com.au/.../8d-n200z/info

https://www.centurybatteries.com.au/...ery/c1275/info

Yep that's them, look a little big shorter now, They were originally called, "T and F", then heavy equipment now just HDuty. Big wide 11 platers perfect for solar, wind.

[DJR-351]

Just replaced the house bank on the boat, 8 x Trojan 105s 6v 225ah Deep-Cycle Flooded, next time i'll be giving AGM's a shot......

For the engine i bought 2 Century 780 Marine Pros N70ZM, supposedly maintenance free, will see, previous ones where 6 year old Century 720 Marine Pro's......

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

Just replaced the house bank on the boat, 8 x Trojan 105s 6v 225ah Deep-Cycle Flooded, next time i'll be giving AGM's a shot......

For the engine i bought 2 Century 780 Marine Pros N70ZM, supposedly maintenance free, will see, previous ones where 6 year old Century 720 Marine Pro's......

AGM on a yacht is a good idea as flooded LA can loose juice in a severe heel or knockdown. I have two of those 200 FLA T and F centuries aboard myself. 6 years so far.
Wasn't Trojan part of the Century group once. ?

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

The thing with non sealed batteries is 99% of people didn't maintain them anyway so its a moot point.

I'm big on Century - anything with the yellow and blue case is Australian made, but I've moved to ACDelco, out of all the cars I've replaced batteries on - AC Delco have consistently lasted the longest.

Listen and learn from this man, he's an auto electrician by trade, and he knows his stuff.

[arronm]

Batteries are now sealed like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJdPTLZees0

This is the century battery I use to buy. They dont make it anymore , they are now FULLY sealed. Now I will buy AGM.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4StoOMsrBw


Not like this anymore.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

AGM on a yacht is a good idea as flooded LA can loose juice in a severe heel or knockdown. I have two of those 200 FLA T and F centuries aboard myself. 6 years so far.
Wasn't Trojan part of the Century group once. ?

AGM's have come a long way these days but there used to be some horror stories on them failing early in boat house banks, plus the price differance between a T105 225ah FLA and a T105 217ah AGM is staggering, 225ah FLA i paid $250ea and the best price i could find for the 217ah AGM was $410ea!, i couldn't find any T105 225ah AGM's in Aus....

Am hoping next time around the price and availability is a bit more reasonable for the AGM Lol......

Not sure about the Trojan/Century connection but heres a little history on Trojan US.....

https://www.trojanbattery.com/corpor...ew/#ourhistory

[XP6]

"I'm big on Century - anything with the yellow and blue case is Australian made"


Yep, I refine and blend the custom lead alloys they use for the plates

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by XP6

"I'm big on Century - anything with the yellow and blue case is Australian made"

Yep, I refine and blend the custom lead alloys they use for the plates

Yeah agree, like I said earlier, those 11 platers are better than any so called "Solar Battery" others are selling at 3 times the price.

Double thumps up to Century for still being Aussie made.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

Just replaced the house bank on the boat, 8 x Trojan 105s 6v 225ah Deep-Cycle Flooded, next time i'll be giving AGM's a shot......

For the engine i bought 2 Century 780 Marine Pros N70ZM, supposedly maintenance free, will see, previous ones where 6 year old Century 720 Marine Pro's......

The previous generation non sealed N70ZM had issues with the caps on them not sealing properly - they'd leak all the time, we did tons of those under warranties.

Just quietly the N70ZM and the N70T are identical internals, one has a blue case and one has a black case and labelled as 'deep cycle' but you didn't hear it from me

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

Just replaced the house bank on the boat, 8 x Trojan 105s 6v 225ah Deep-Cycle Flooded, next time i'll be giving AGM's a shot......

For the engine i bought 2 Century 780 Marine Pros N70ZM, supposedly maintenance free, will see, previous ones where 6 year old Century 720 Marine Pro's......

'Trojan' 6V 225AH deep cycle flooded you're saying?

Sounds suspiciously like Century C105:

https://www.centurybatteries.com.au/...tery/c105/info

Something interesting is look at the weight, size and capacities of the industrial range compared to the automotive versions of 'deep cycle' batteries.

Those weighs nearly 30kg a pop - there is a lot of lead in that.

There is a lot of conjecture about AGM batteries - Optima D34 is a favorite on this forum for use in Falcons, they halve their charging capacity at above 60 degrees ambient temperatures and virtually stop charging once they reach 80 degrees, AGM isn't ideal for under bonnet applications, especially when you have a bigass turbo in the engine bay in a modified XR6T and you beat on it.

I guess if its a garage queen and it sits on float charge 24/7 then its fit for purpose but for a daily, not ideal.

AGM is a good option for house batteries on a boat, a secondary deep cycle in the back of a 4x4 or a car with a battery in the boot like Euros or VE/VF Commodore.

If you have a Falcon as a daily - Century 67EF MF, is locally made and 640CCA with a 3 year warranty:

https://www.centurybatteries.com.au/...duct/67ef%20mf

[roKWiz]

Maybe not their fault but I must admit I had a bad run of smaller truck size Century NS70's probably due to being a twin 12V starter set up.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Maybe not their fault but I must admit I had a bad run of smaller truck size Century NS70's probably due to being a twin 12V starter set up.

24V start setup? Did they blow holes in the battery posts or did they just crap out?

Heat and vibration are two big killers of batteries, Kenworth trucks have a 4x N70ZZ start battery setup, there is a particular range of battery that Century has for these trucks:

https://www.centurybatteries.com.au/...difference.pdf

If you put the regular 4x4 ones in Kenworth trucks they flog them out in 6 months tops if you're lucky, its vibration in particular on those trucks and where the batteries are that does them in on those trucks.

The small Jap trucks may have a similar issue.

Originally Posted by arronm

Batteries are now sealed like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJdPTLZees0

This is the century battery I use to buy. They dont make it anymore , they are now FULLY sealed. Now I will buy AGM.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4StoOMsrBw


Not like this anymore.

image

https://www.centurybatteries.com.au/...n70zzlxhd/info

Thats the previous generation Century battery - majority of the range has gone to sealed variants, this is non sealed N70ZZ sized new generation for 4x4s

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

24V start setup? Did they blow holes in the battery posts or did they just crap out?

No, 12V in parallel, sometimes it's hard to get a good earth with a second chassis mount or one battery would drain the other down due to the same earthing / charging problems.
Earlier model truck has a single larger 12V 120amp 1000cca battery, just a better setup.
Jap trucks above, my KW uses 2 12V 1100cca Delkor in series 24v start 12v run.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

No, 12V in parallel, sometimes it's hard to get a good earth with a second chassis mount or one battery would drain the other down due to the same earthing / charging problems.
Earlier model truck has a single larger 12V 120amp 1000cca battery, just a better setup.
Jap trucks above, my KW uses 2 12V 1100cca Delkor in series 24v start 12v run.

What sucks about that setup is if one battery is cactus or on its way it pulls the other one down as well, with our customers we'd fit 2x NS70X which is a higher capacity variant if there was a lack of room or convert to 2x N70ZZ if we had the room and could hang the batteries out of the holder a little further.

There was only about $5 difference in margin between the smaller NS70 and the bigger N70ZZ, so mostly we retrofitted the bigger ones in.

Bigger is always better

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

What sucks about that setup is if one battery is cactus or on its way it pulls the other one down as well, with our customers we'd fit 2x NS70X which is a higher capacity variant if there was a lack of room or convert to 2x N70ZZ if we had the room and could hang the batteries out of the holder a little further.

There was only about $5 difference in margin between the smaller NS70 and the bigger N70ZZ, so mostly we retrofitted the bigger ones in.

Bigger is always better

I'll go that route soon as one truck has the batteries pulled every time I lay it up for a couple of weeks, problem with space is it has side skirts. I do have a spare single larger battery holder like off the older one I want to convert to later.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

'Trojan' 6V 225AH deep cycle flooded you're saying?

Sounds suspiciously like Century C105:

https://www.centurybatteries.com.au/...tery/c105/info

Because of there reliability the T105 has been the mainstay for house-banks of the boating world for many many years, originally built for golf carts way back when, they where adopted by long range sailing boats that spend extended lengths of time in remote locations away from support, they take an absolute beating from the solar panels, wind generators, alternators and chargers not to mention the environment they operate in, there are probably more of these batteries floating around out at sea than any other, the Chandlery here in Bundy always has them on stock for visiting overseas boats.....

As for the Century C105? there are plenty of other makes that have 6v 225ah Deep Cycle batteries, nothing unusual there it's a popular size, but i would take a sizeable bet that the T105 was around long before the C105

Unfortunately the C105 doesn't have the reputation of the Trojans outside of Australia cause for the most part they are unknown, even i have no idea of how reliable they are or what sort of life can be expected from them, but i do know that the Trojans i replaced where originally fitted in Nov 2009 and are still soldiering on, although at a reduced rate now, so for where i plan on going it's best to stick with what i know...until someone can prove to me otherwise that is

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by falconhell74

If you want a truly sealed battery you need to get an AGM (absorbed glass mat) battery

Make sure they are suitable for automotive general use or for your vehicles specs., seen plenty of numpties using the wrong type AGM battery wondering why they fail prematurely.

[gregaust]

http://www.lionbatteries.com.au/

I had a bad run of century many years ago, 3 in 6 mths ..

Had a few of these lion batteries now last just on 10 yrs

[roddy1960]

Currently I have a new Century in the XR6 . (67 MF) with 640 cold cranking amps. The one in it when I bought the car in 2016 was a Delkor 22EFR 520 . No worries yet of course as it's only about 4 months old .

In the AU it's on it's third Century in the past five years. Last year I put a 67 in it , same as XR6 now. I have pretty much always used Century but if either of these fail too quick I'll consider something else . I reckon at least three years isn't unreasonable . Hopefully that'll happen with the current ones . My Honda has a Delko in it. Had the car since late 2016 and has not shown any sign of a problem .

[gregaust]

I've also got a couple Optima red tops . Oldest is 8 yrs now , other is near 5 yrs