Revive Car Industry in Australia

[kmav23]

Labor promises car cash splash to build electric and hydrogen-powered vehicles in Australia

Exclusive by political editor Andrew Probyn

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-...ustry/10985458

Tens of millions of dollars will be offered to the world's automotive giants to resurrect the Australian car industry, centred around manufacturing electric and hydrogen-powered cars, under a yet-to-be unveiled Labor plan.

The ABC has learned the Labor Party has been quietly working on the plan for the past couple of years, with high-ranking executives from the United States travelling to Australia to discuss "co-investment" options with Opposition figures.

It is understood Labor plans to offer major carmakers research and development grants from a $1 billion fund aimed at re-stocking Australia's manufacturing sector.

Labor wants 50 per cent of all new car sales to be electric vehicles by 2030 and it believes many of them should be built in Australia — potentially using repurposed car factories in South Australia and Victoria.

Australia's last mass-produced cars rolled off the production line in October 2017, when Holden closed its Adelaide plant. Toyota closed its Altona plant in Victoria the same month, leaving 2,500 workers redundant.

Labor leader Bill Shorten has hinted at his plan for a car industry renaissance in recent days, saying he wants Australia to be a "manufacturing nation".

In his Budget reply speech, Mr Shorten said he wanted Australia to use its vast natural resources of lithium to create an Australian battery industry.

"So instead of the usual trope of shipping the minerals overseas and buying back the finished product at vastly inflated prices,let's make the batteries here," he said.

"And let's do this with electric vehicles and charging equipment and stations too."

Labor industry spokesman Kim Carr argues that the car industry is far from dead in Australia, with thousands of skilled workers, automotive engineers and designers ready for deployment as part of an existing "ecosystem".

Australian manufacturers of automotive components exported $862 million of goods in 2017-18 and while cars are no longer being mass-produced in Australia, Ford still employs 2,100 people in its design, research and development divisions.

Holden GM has announced an expansion of its engineering and design workforce to 500 and Toyota has 160 working in R&D, specialising in hydrogen technology.

A multi-billion-dollar road funding black hole is looming, caused by the growing popularity of fuel-efficient cars.
Firms active in the Australian automotive sector include Bosch, Unidrive, Nissan Casting, Carbon Revolution, MHG Plastics and Seeing Machines, which is working with Holden on autonomous vehicles in Canberra.

Queensland company ACE Electric Vehicles is building a $40,000 two-door electric van pitched at small businesses and companies. It wants to have 100 built this year in its Brisbane factory.

There are 65 firms still registered with the Automotive Transformation Scheme, which will distribute $1 billion between 2016 and 2020 to motor vehicle producers and component manufacturers who invest in research and development and innovation.

Senator Carr last week launched the Australian Manufacturing Workers Union's industry blueprint with a pledge to boost the sector.

"We will forge an alliance of blue collar and white coat, to rebuild the industrial system for the 21st century," he told the AMWU.

[Poetic Justice]

May also want to put some funding in to working out how the power industry is going to cope with the extra demand on electricity needs.

[kmav23]

Originally Posted by SCUD

May also want to put some funding in to working out how the power industry is going to cope with the extra demand on electricity needs.

Most will charge at off peak rates where there is plenty of available supply and capacity of electricity.

e.g 11 cents a Kw off peak would only cost a 50kw electric car around $5.50 compared to say $60 for fuel.

[Wretched]

Tens of millions of dollars will be offered to the world's automotive giants to resurrect the Australian car industry, centred around manufacturing electric and hydrogen-powered cars, under a yet-to-be unveiled Labor plan.

LoL, car makers would spend that on their lunch room budget.
I am all for attempting it, but i think trying to lure an overseas maker is flogging a dead horse. Better off trying to assist a local startup or focus on engineering and forget assembly.

I'm more interested in his 10min charge time; best i could find was Porsche claiming their prototype charge system will provide ~100km range in 8 min of charging.

[Bossxr8]

Pie in the sky.

[Poetic Justice]

Originally Posted by kmav23

Most will charge at off peak rates where there is plenty of available supply and capacity of electricity.

e.g 11 cents a Kw off peak would only cost a 50kw electric car around $5.50 compared to say $60 for fuel.

Is the available supply going to remain available in the distant future?

[Fordman1]

Let’s make our Country bankrupt !

Nice work Labor / Tesla man, thanks !

[The Yeti]

So let me get this right

The alternative gvt want a **** tonne of electric cars on the road, awesome I think it’s great, I think the technology is improving far faster than it ever did in the IC world, and electrics / electronics lend themselves to cheaper design chnages than IC ever did and will.

I’ve worked with battery electric machines for over 25years and as much as I IC cars I think all the short falls we see in BE vehicles are easily overcome if we set the infrastructure up

But this alternative gvt are saying 2030 there 50% of new cars will be electric, we can even sort the NBN out by then how the hell are we going to tool up for electric cars in this time frame

But the government is reliant on the eleventy squillion dollars that fuel taxes bring in each and every year

They are selling it on how cheap it is to charge these vehicles

How are they proposing on recovering this lost revenue?

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by kmav23

Most will charge at off peak rates where there is plenty of available supply and capacity of electricity.

e.g 11 cents a Kw off peak would only cost a 50kw electric car around $5.50 compared to say $60 for fuel.

You tried this in the other thread. Where do you get electricity for 11c per kW?

This is mine as of last Dec and it's the cheapest I could find.

Peak Usage cents per kWh 35.5800... inc gst 39.1380
Off-Peak Usage cents per kWh 19.4000...inc gst 21.3400
Shoulder Usage cents per kWh 33.3200...inc gst 36.6520
Controlled Load Off-Peak 2 cents per kWh 20.5200...inc gst 22.5720
Supply Charge Controlled Load2 cents per day 13.5000...inc gst 14.8500
Supply Charge cents per day 141.0100...inc gst 155.1110

[RANGEREST]

Originally Posted by SCUD

Is the available supply going to remain available in the distant future?

This^^^
Solar is not the answer, unless we have a shipload of batteries to store the over supply at peak production times.
Some businesses are getting better savings by putting in voltage stabilizers, that make lighting and appliances more efficient, than they would gain from solar.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...b8olmS_7UjsL2t

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

You tried this in the other thread. Where do you get electricity for 11c per kW?

This is mine as of last Dec and it's the cheapest I could find.

Peak Usage cents per kWh 35.5800... inc gst 39.1380
Off-Peak Usage cents per kWh 19.4000...inc gst 21.3400
Shoulder Usage cents per kWh 33.3200...inc gst 36.6520
Controlled Load Off-Peak 2 cents per kWh 20.5200...inc gst 22.5720
Supply Charge Controlled Load2 cents per day 13.5000...inc gst 14.8500
Supply Charge cents per day 141.0100...inc gst 155.1110

Bit of a Topic Hijack, But; We're only Paying 28.74C/kw & 15.1c/Kw (both + GST)for our electricity. Supply charge is identical.

We live only an Hour & a half north of Wagga ...

[Itsme]

I see Labour is dreaming and spreading lies with this talk of resurrecting a car industry in this country, FFS why did they not offer this hopeful solution to the existing industry when it was in trouble before wiping their hands on the car industry.

[roddy1960]

I honestly can't see why people bag this before the detail is explained .. Judge the horses chance after it's left the starting gate , not before .

Many a bookie has been done chancing on pre race form or lack of more's the point .

How I look at this is that EV's are inevitable . Why shouldn't we be on the front foot for a change instead of letting others make the bulk of the calls for us .

I bet there's enough of the smarts in this country to give it a decent go .

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by Officemanager

I see Labour is dreaming and spreading lies with this talk of resurrecting a car industry in this country, FFS why did they not offer this hopeful solution to the existing industry when it was in trouble before wiping their hands on the car industry.

The Treasurer for the other mob didn't help either ...remember his little dummy spit with Holden .

[Tonz]

woow...watch out flying pig season.

[DJR-351]

Think about it Roddy, it doesn't matter whether they run on petrol, diesel, electricity, hydrogen or the farts of angels, the same conditions that killed our car manufacturing industry in the first place still exist and still apply.....

[kmav23]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

You tried this in the other thread. Where do you get electricity for 11c per kW?

This is mine as of last Dec and it's the cheapest I could find.

Peak Usage cents per kWh 35.5800... inc gst 39.1380
Off-Peak Usage cents per kWh 19.4000...inc gst 21.3400
Shoulder Usage cents per kWh 33.3200...inc gst 36.6520
Controlled Load Off-Peak 2 cents per kWh 20.5200...inc gst 22.5720
Supply Charge Controlled Load2 cents per day 13.5000...inc gst 14.8500
Supply Charge cents per day 141.0100...inc gst 155.1110

Actually I stand corrected, it was 11 cents for a long time, they raised it now to 14 cents per kwh off peak

[Sprintey]

Well, it's gotta be better than closing our value-adding capability, selling the raw materials overseas cheaply, then buying them back at higher international spot prices (cough! gas cough!). The resultant deficit financed by selling off parts of the nation...

Here's some info from the UK (notwithstanding certain events unfolding about right now...), where they realised after some pain that the 'services economy' ain't all it's cracked up to be:

https://www.smmt.co.uk/2013/07/uk-mo...titive-sector/

https://issues.org/the-second-coming...rial-strategy/

https://assets.publishing.service.go...dy-version.pdf

Just like the Germans in the early 60's, the Japanese at the same time, the Thais, the Malaysians, the South Africans, the Chinese more recently; they realised that industry, if you want it, needs some support.

[kmav23]

The traditional auto makers won't be interested in returning to Australia. I can only see pure EV automakers tempted to come. EVs require 60% less parts and if they have more robotic automation in their factories like Tesla they would require less Labour. Also Tesla manufacturers its own batteries which which Australia has all the raw materials. Thus they will also sell storage batteries. Labor has been negotiating with overseas car makers about what would interest them. I would presume they had some interest before announcing the policy.

[kmav23]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Well, it's gotta be better than closing our value-adding capability, selling the raw materials overseas cheaply, then buying them back at higher international spot prices (cough! gas cough!). The resultant deficit financed by selling off parts of the nation...

Here's some info from the UK (notwithstanding certain events unfolding about right now...), where they realised after some pain that the 'services economy' ain't all it's cracked up to be:

https://www.smmt.co.uk/2013/07/uk-mo...titive-sector/

https://issues.org/the-second-coming...rial-strategy/

https://assets.publishing.service.go...dy-version.pdf

Just like the Germans in the early 60's, the Japanese at the same time, the Thais, the Malaysians, the South Africans, the Chinese more recently; they realised that industry, if you want it, needs some support.

Australia should be manufacturing high quality, advanced products that cheaper nations can not reproduce like the Germans and Japanese do.

[CyberWasp]

Isn't it a bit like shutting the gate after the horse has bolted?

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by kmav23

Australia should be manufacturing high quality, advanced products that cheaper nations can not reproduce like the Germans and Japanese do.

But the Germans and Japanese both use manufacturing facilities in cheaper countries.

[kmav23]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

But the Germans and Japanese both use manufacturing facilities in cheaper countries.

Yes they move the cheaper models and keep the high quality, biggest margin and most advanced within Germany.

That's why advanced electric cars in the premium range have a chance to be built here. Anything that requires advance skills and engineers.

[zipping]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

I honestly can't see why people bag this before the detail is explained

Government actions often provide substantial benefits to a few while imposing small costs on many.

An enterprise started by a group of people in the private sphere may succeed or fail. Most new enterprises fail (if the enterprise were clearly destined for success, it would probably already exist). If the enterprise fails, it loses money.
The people who own it have a clear bottom line. To keep it going, they have to dig into their own pockets. They are reluctant to do that, so they have a strong incentive either to make the enterprise work or to shut it down

Suppose the same group of people start the same enterprise in the government sector and the initial results are the same. It is a failure; it does not work. They have a very different bottom line. Nobody likes to admit that he has made a mistake, and they do not have to. They can argue that the enterprise initially failed only because it was not pursued on a large enough
scale. More important, they have a much different and deeper pocket to draw on. With the best intentions in the world, they can try to persuade the people who hold the purse strings to finance the enterprise on a larger scale. And governments do.


Once the activity begins, whether it proves desirable or not, people in both the government and the private sector acquire a vested interest in it. If the initial reason for undertaking the activity disappears, they have a strong incentive to find another justification for its continued existence (Freidman)

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

You tried this in the other thread. Where do you get electricity for 11c per kW?

This is mine as of last Dec and it's the cheapest I could find.

Peak Usage cents per kWh 35.5800... inc gst 39.1380
Off-Peak Usage cents per kWh 19.4000...inc gst 21.3400
Shoulder Usage cents per kWh 33.3200...inc gst 36.6520
Controlled Load Off-Peak 2 cents per kWh 20.5200...inc gst 22.5720
Supply Charge Controlled Load2 cents per day 13.5000...inc gst 14.8500
Supply Charge cents per day 141.0100...inc gst 155.1110

I get electricity for 11.8 cents per kWh off peak (11-7 weekdays, and for all day Saturday/Sunday) (Semi-rural Vic)

[fordomatic]

Originally Posted by kmav23

Actually I stand corrected, it was 11 cents for a long time, they raised it now to 14 cents per kwh off peak

Wish i could get 14 cents P/KWH, haven't seen those prices in my area since 2012

You are off ya head mate, not answering the hard questions in most threads and when you do you only answer them to suit you? Not a politician are you?

[kmav23]

Originally Posted by fordomatic

Wish i could get 14 cents P/KWH, haven't seen those prices in my area since 2012

You are off ya head mate, not answering the hard questions in most threads and when you do you only answer them to suit you? Not a politician are you?

Do you live in a remote or less populated area?

[UTXR8]

must be an election looming.....stick to the plasma grant, Labor.....

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by kmav23

The traditional auto makers won't be interested in returning to Australia. I can only see pure EV automakers tempted to come. EVs require 60% less parts and if they have more robotic automation in their factories like Tesla they would require less Labour. Also Tesla manufacturers its own batteries which which Australia has all the raw materials. Thus they will also sell storage batteries. Labor has been negotiating with overseas car makers about what would interest them. I would presume they had some interest before announcing the policy.

The thing is the batteries are cheaper out of India so they will come from there, the factories will be heavy Union and expensive and as a result the cars will be expensive

And the clincher

Australians typically won’t buy the product

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kmav23

Do you live in a remote or less populated area?

Its not Melbourne or Sydney so yes