Should an FG Territory replace a wagon lineup?

[AWD Chaser]

Hi Guys.

Just a quick poll after reading another thread,

Once Ford update the Terriroty to FG spec, should they bother having a wagon lineup, or would the Territory suffice?

[uranium_death]

THe wagon is not aimed at the family market like the Territory and VE Sportswagon are.

Keeping the wagon should not come down to a Territory v Wagon comparison. The wagon should be looked at on its own merits. If it's still selling, keep it.

If not, then it may have to go.

[Gobes32]

Wagon was supposed to go when FG came along, we are still making them because people still keep buying them.

[Kieron]

I what supposed to go with the intro of the Territory too, but fleets buy em.

Even if its marginal sales, it's still a drawcard for large fleets who need a mix of wagons and sedans, one stop shop for both.

[uranium_death]

Keeping the wagon would not have cost Ford much either, so it makes sense.

I saw a white sportswagon at the G yesterday, and I thought it looked terrible.

In "Drive", they sportswagon was in the "HITS" area, saying that it has revitalised wagon sales blah blah blah, although either Holden or Commodore sales have decreased by 17% or something like that. With the introduction of the sportswagon, as stated, Commodore sales have not increased at all either. It is merely a tradeoff for a wagon instead of a sedan.

The FG was called a "MISS", although the FG has only seen sales drop 4%, and is a great car. They called it Australia's greatest ever car, but their argument was that Ford isn't selling enough of them. Given the large car segment as gone to pot with high petrol prices, as well as perception, is that the FG's fault?
Couple that with the economic collapse, it is highly unlikely that car sales were ever going to meet its targets.

While I understand the FG may be considered a miss purely on a sales-level, the Sportswagon isn't the saviour it is made out to be. For every Sportswagon sold, there is one sedan that isn't. There are no extra sales being generated, meaning that in a sense, Holden is making nothing on the Sportswagons.

Ford on the other hand operate their wagons in a different market, so for now, it's viable to retain them.

[4VCLEVO]

I am new to the wagon thing haveing not long bought a AU 3 wagon. I do not want a 4 wheel drive based wagon like the Territory in the future, and find the large storage and floor space in the back of the wagon very usefull and practical.

[XR6_190]

Ford wouldn't still be selling the BFIII wagon if people weren't buying them. it doesn't cost Ford any money to keep making them, until about 2010 when they have to either make a new model, adjust it for the upgraded I6, or dump it all togethor, personally, I don't think they will be changing anything till then.

[atec77]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Wagon was supposed to go when FG came along, we are still making them because people still keep buying them.

The day ford makes a decent v8 wagon I will sell the sport wagon and return , I hear the 6.7 v8 proposal might go ahead and the sohc drives with the low torque of a pushrod motors , if it's anything like a chev then I would buy one in a heartbeat ( sorry but I don't enjoy driving a 5.4)

[Mr Hardware]

My good men, THINK OF THE TAXIS!
Next time you're at the airport with your family in 2014 when there's no more falcon wagons and you've got a shedload of luggage, you'll have one choice. A stinky diseasel toyota commuter maxi. You will rue the day ford ever killed the wagoon.

THINK OF THE TAXIS! THINK OF THE TAXIS!

[Luke Plaizier]

I'm on the fence.

A low-ride-height 2WD Tezza might be satisfactory. I'm not sure why people are chosing a BFIII wagon over a 2WD tezza. Is it the cost, the fuel consumption, no LPG option or the payload volume? Not sure. But Ford could effectively avoid developing a new FG wagon if they can find out why people are still buying wagons and try to make a Tezza version of the wagon that satisfies all those criteria.


Lukeyson

[Buzz Box]

Well I say KEEP THE WAGON.

You get a territory and a wagon and you try loading both of them up to go away and I'll tell you now which one you'll find more room into and is easier to load into.

The territory is just a big falcon its not a wagon its simply a big falcon with a high driving position

[Mr Hardware]

Is it the cost, the fuel consumption, no LPG option or the payload volume?

Probably all four!

[Dazza XLT]

Keep the wagon, but put some effort in this time (XR Versions etc)

[XR6_190]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

I'm on the fence.

A low-ride-height 2WD Tezza might be satisfactory. I'm not sure why people are chosing a BFIII wagon over a 2WD tezza. Is it the cost, the fuel consumption, no LPG option or the payload volume? Not sure. But Ford could effectively avoid developing a new FG wagon if they can find out why people are still buying wagons and try to make a Tezza version of the wagon that satisfies all those criteria.


Lukeyson

All of the above probably

The BF wagon does have a bigger payload, uses less fuel, is available with dedicated LPG and is cheaper, add this to the fact that the styling is pretty similar and you can see why certain people might be likely to prefer a wagon to a Territory.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Ford have no real reason to update the Wagon with the current financial circumstances. It's proven popular, doesn't cost anything to make (R + D would have been paid for years ago) and Ford do not have enough money to throw away some on a worthwhile upgrade.

As for the people who want an XR8 wagon, I'll put it rather bluntly, Ford don't care if you want a V8 Falcon wagon, truth of the matter is not enough people want one, you might, and another hundred might, but if there was a big enough market for it, then Ford would have built it. they aren't going to build a special car for every individual out there. At the end of the day, the bean counters at Ford don't care if the Wagon is pretty much unchanged since 1998, it still sells.

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by Dazza XL

Keep the wagon, but put some effort in this time (XR Versions etc)

Read my previous post.

There is NO demand for wagons as far as incremental sales go. Those that sell merely take sales away from sedans.
What is the point of spending money on a vehicle that will not earn Ford anything, especially at a time like this where companies are folding faster than Superman on laundry day.

It's nice to meet the demand of a few die-hards, but the return will be negligible, and people will then lambast Ford for a stupid decision that results in millions lost.

The wagon meets its purpose.

[Mr Hardware]

Yeah, i don't agree with you uranium death. Holden has a track record of doing rather well with marketing and selling cars, and ford would be STARK RAVING MAD not to follow suit with the current 'sportswagon trend' (and i know, holden didn't start it, it was 'ze germans' :P) but holden has brought it to the masses in australia. Ford will CLEAN UP if they follow suit with turning the FG, car of the year, into a sportswagon too or even just a nicely styled, full variant wagon.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

It's nice to meet the demand of a few die-hards, but the return will be negligible, and people will then lambast Ford for a stupid decision that results in millions lost.

True................. so true !!

[Dave R]

Definitely keep the wagon. The Territory is a heavier and thirstier car with a smaller cargo capacity aimed at families not fleets. The Falcon wagon is more practical for commercial use. As long as it's selling, leave it alone.

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Yeah, i don't agree with you uranium death. Holden has a track record of doing rather well with marketing and selling cars, and ford would be STARK RAVING MAD not to follow suit with the current 'sportswagon trend' (and i know, holden didn't start it, it was 'ze germans' :P) but holden has brought it to the masses in australia. Ford will CLEAN UP if they follow suit with turning the FG, car of the year, into a sportswagon too or even just a nicely styled, full variant wagon.

Have Holden increased sales by having a wagon? You tell me.

Statistics may suggest "no". The wagon has simply taken sales away from the sedan. In the end, there is hardly any benefit, other than the image.

So, look at all the costs of developing the wagon and outfitting the damn factories to build everything compared to the return, and in the end, it is totally not worth it.

Ford had XR, Futura, Fairmont and Fairmont Ghia wagons. Well before this global collapse, they did not sell well then. Do you think Ford can afford to throw money to appease to a few people who are part of the ant mob. Just because Holden do something, why should Ford if there is no absolute benefit?

Holden HAD to make a wagon, since fleets go for the Falcon wagon, and for the family market, Ford has the Territory. Holden on the other hand had nothing.

It would be START RAVING MAD for Ford to waste money on a new-age wagon when the current offering costs Ford bugger all to retain, and they are still selling.

In direct contrast, it may be inferred that Holden is making little to nothing on their wagons (other than an image lift) since they spent money on developing the wagon, but they are not selling any more vehicles per month.

In response to "Holden marketing cars", the Monaro was a great for marketing brand image. However, what did it actually do for the company? Not a hell of a lot.

This romance is sickening.

In these current economic times, it would be grossly irresponsible for Ford to release a "Sportswagon" when there is frankly no demand for it.

[XR6_190]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

As long as it's selling, leave it alone.

EXACTLEY!

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by XR6_190

EXACTLEY!

Yep, provided it remains a fairly basic vehicle, costing Ford less to update and produce, meaning it remains viable to retain.

Only months after release, the Sportswagon has had a price reduction.

Ford will keep it, and it's a smart move.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

Yeah, i don't agree with you uranium death. Holden has a track record of doing rather well with marketing and selling cars,

And loosing money hand over fist doing it......

uranium_death is on the money.

[outback_ute]

Another scenario - what if Ford bring in the Mondeo - 2.2L TD and DSG gearbox. Would be a pretty good package

[XR Martin]

LWB Territory, add 20cm to the floorpan and youve got yourself a new large wagon.

[XR6_190]

Originally Posted by outback_ute

Another scenario - what if Ford bring in the Mondeo - 2.2L TD and DSG gearbox. Would be a pretty good package

Ford NEED this combo available here, I was reading up on this in a recent Top Gear UK magazine, storms all over the 2.0TDCi/ Auto we already have. add that to the idea of a Mondeo Wagon (with a similar rear load capacity to Holden Sportwagon) and Mondeo sales will raise, but then again, that isn't what this thread is about, and a Mondeo wagon will almost definitely take sales off other Fords.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Dazza XL

Keep the wagon, but put some effort in this time (XR Versions etc)

Wagons have only sold well at a base level for Ford. Only 50 AU3 Fairmont wagons were sold, that was a few years before the Territory was on sale, so it was dropped from the range. The ED/EF XR6 wagons only sold a few hundred, and the Ghia wagon was dropped because of low sales.

Do you see the emerging trend there? Only base model wagons sell in the Falcon range and thats why they have kept it that way since the BA. Fleets make up 95% of wagon sales and they are the only buyers keeping it alive, because they love the space in the back to carry their equipment. A sportswagon version of the Falcon will have the fleets leaving in droves and sales would probably drop, as private buyers as a majority prefer the Territory, so why would they bother spending hundreds of millions of dollars on a wagon version that would never in a million years make the investment money back. It would be corporate suicide.


All this talk is a waste of time anyway as there are no plans to ever build an FG wagon. Come 2010 when the whole range needs to be Euro 4, the wagon may not justify the costs needed to fit the new engine and 5 speed auto in them and it just may be killed off. Selling something like 400 a month may not be enough sales to keep it alive.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Wagons have only sold well at a base level for Ford. Only 50 AU3 Fairmont wagons were sold, that was a few years before the Territory was on sale, so it was dropped from the range. The ED/EF XR6 wagons only sold a few hundred, and the Ghia wagon was dropped because of low sales.

Do you see the emerging trend there? Only base model wagons sell in the Falcon range and thats why they have kept it that way since the BA. Fleets make up 95% of wagon sales and they are the only buyers keeping it alive, because they love the space in the back to carry their equipment. A sportswagon version of the Falcon will have the fleets leaving in droves and sales would probably drop, as private buyers as a majority prefer the Territory, so why would they bother spending hundreds of millions of dollars on a wagon version that would never in a million years make the investment money back. It would be corporate suicide.


All this talk is a waste of time anyway as there are no plans to ever build an FG wagon. Come 2010 when the whole range needs to be Euro 4, the wagon may not justify the costs needed to fit the new engine and 5 speed auto in them and it just may be killed off. Selling something like 400 a month may not be enough sales to keep it alive.

But common.... surely a supercharged V10 superwagon with 5 subs, 22" rims and dumped on its guts would sell by the thousands right??!!!

Ford are kidding themselves if they don't build it..... :

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

But common.... surely a supercharged V10 superwagon with 5 subs, 22" rims and dumped on its guts would sell by the thousands right??!!!

Ford are kidding themselves if they don't build it..... :

That and an FG coupe body mounted over a Ford GT chassis with mid mount 700hp GTX1 5.4 and rear transaxle. Its costing them thousands of sales not having one on the market.

Ford have no clue.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

That and an FG coupe body mounted over a Ford GT chassis with mid mount 700hp GTX1 5.4 and rear transaxle. Its costing them thousands of sales not having one on the market.

Ford have no clue.

yeah.. no idea!!!!

[Trendseeker]

Originally Posted by Buzz Box

Well I say KEEP THE WAGON.

You get a territory and a wagon and you try loading both of them up to go away and I'll tell you now which one you'll find more room into and is easier to load into.

The territory is just a big falcon its not a wagon its simply a big falcon with a high driving position

[From the Ford website]

Falcon Wagon luggage capacity (rear seats up): 1260l
Territory luggage capacity (second row seats up): 1153l
Falcon sedan luggage capacity: 535l

Just a big Falcon and not a wagon? My rego papers say its a wagon. The Falcon wagon is 200mm longer than the Territory so it ought to have a larger capacity. It would be interesting to compare capacities with the Territory's second row down. It would be a very close result given the Territory's superior headroom. Easier to load? Depends how tall or short you are.