Help! Can i service my own car?

[carrot13]

Originally Posted by Bobman

Best enjoyment comes from servicing your own vehicle!

Originally Posted by blueluvr

Bobman, I agree, but the problem is when and if it comes time to claim warranty, they see no service stamps and they will say : "ah ha!, sorry bud, we no fix your car for free"

Originally Posted by BAsuction

my service book has never been filled I service the car my self from new it only got the first complimetary service done at ford.

Hi guys,
this is doing my head in.
I bought my brand new SYII Territory on friday assuming that i could service the vehicle myself & still keep the standard 3year warranty current.

Ive done this with other new cars ive bought - although it was 5years or ago, back then the manufacturers stipulated in the manual/warranty conditions the work must be carried out by a competent person (I have a trade certificate in mechanical fitting & machining.
Although i dont work on the tools anymore I am pretty handy at fixing/modifying cars).

anyway the dealer i bought the car off said the servicing must be carried out by a registered workshop or the warranty will be void - wtf, where does it say this in the warranty conditions?

page 20 of my 'customer assistance, warranty & service guide' book, under point 8 - 'When will the ford vehicle warranty not apply?' says this-

failure to have the vehicle properly, regularly & punctually serviced in accordance with the instructions & recommendations specified for the vehicle by ford

so where does it say that servicing must be done by a workshop?
im confused :/
thanks

[Kryton]

Well if Ford are saying that it must be an accredited workshop then that is the terms and conditions of your warranty.

Do the work yourself and then when something that is a common failure does fail - they'll wash their hands of you and it will be your fault that it happened.

So essentially, unless you have a registered workshop, the NO YOu cant service your car and expect to keep the warranty.

Theres no ifs, theres no buts - if your not happy about that then either sell the car, dont service it or deal with it.

BTW - you dont have to use Ford to service it either - any registered accredited workshop can but Ford will make any warranty claims a hassle if you dont use them.

[Windsor220]

Think about it. If you sold someone something, you'd want to be the one servicing it if you were providing a warranty.

Nissan said the same thing to my mum when she bought a new car last year. Service there or no warranty.

[carrot13]

Originally Posted by davway

Well if Ford are saying that it must be an accredited workshop then that is the terms and conditions of your warranty.

all ive had in this regard is verbal from a saleman, where is this in writing? shouldnt it be clearly written down somewhere??

Do the work yourself and then when something that is a common failure does fail - they'll wash their hands of you and it will be your fault that it happened.

So essentially, unless you have a registered workshop, the NO YOu cant service your car and expect to keep the warranty.

Theres no ifs, theres no buts - if your not happy about that then either sell the car, dont service it or deal with it.
no i wont be selling the car, if i cant service it it will be done by a workshop



BTW - you dont have to use Ford to service it either - any registered accredited workshop can but Ford will make any warranty claims a hassle if you dont use them.

also the saleman said the 3000km service must be done by the dealer that sold me the car, i cant find this written down anywhere either, sounds like BS..

so like i said where is this condition that the vehicle must be serviced by a registered workshop?
thanks

[carrot13]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

Think about it. If you sold someone something, you'd want to be the one servicing it if you were providing a warranty.

Nissan said the same thing to my mum when she bought a new car last year. Service there or no warranty.

it is common knowlege that FORD does not have to service the car, a registered workshop can do it.
but why cant a competent owner do it as well, i will fill in the books & provide receipts for genuine parts.

lots of hearsay about this so i was expecting it to plainly spelt out in the service guide, but its not clear to me.

the quote i provided above is the most relevant info i can find.
cheers

[Bucknaked]

Unless you are a qualified mechanic from an accredited workshop, then theres no hope in hell. It's like people who mod their cars, something breaks and they expect ford to foot the bill. Bottom line is that ford honor the warranty. If your not prepared to follow their rules, then they are well within their right to void the warranty.

Would you really want to risk warranty on your new car because you don't want to pay for professional servicing? I know I wouldn't.

[aussiblue]

See http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11282954 and my post there. And yes; despite what others may say as the ACCC makes it clear as I quoted, you can service it yourself and retain the warranty.

However, you will need evidence that you have serviced the vehicle strictly in accordance with Ford's requirements; this means buying a Ford factory workshop manual (NOT a Gregorys, Max Ellerys, Haynes etc) and any service bulletins issued (consumer law in most states requires them to sell service manuals and related updates and bulletins to you on request - but from my experience expect to have to show them a copy of the relevant State or Commonwealth consumer legislation before they sell you the bulletins), servicing it strictly according to that factory manual, buying any special tools specified in the Ford manual, buying all the oils and other fluids specified in the Ford manual and keeping receipts of all these items (i.e to demonstrate you had the factory manual before you commenced servicing your car) and any consumables used to service the car and being able to demonstrate your mechanical competence and knowledge should a dispute about warranty go to court or arbitration. I have done this with new cars and actually had no dispute with the dealer when it came to warranty fixes (albeit the items being replaced under warranty could in no way have been damaged by service failure).

Note I just checked getting bulletins relies on Section 74F of the Commo0nwelath's Trade Practices Act and the bulletins being listed as parts or having a part number.

[carrot13]

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

Unless you are a qualified mechanic from an accredited workshop, then theres no hope in hell. It's like people who mod their cars, something breaks and they expect ford to foot the bill. Bottom line is that ford honor the warranty. If your not prepared to follow their rules, then they are well within their right to void the warranty.

Would you really want to risk warranty on your new car because you don't want to pay for professional servicing? I know I wouldn't.

mate ive allready posted above that i will get a workshop to service the car if i have to, so no i wont be risking the warranty.

im just asking where is this condition written down?

[carrot13]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

See http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11282954 and my post there. And yes; despite what others may say as the ACCC makes it clear as I quoted, you can service it yourself and retain the warranty.

However, you will need evidence that you have serviced the vehicle strictly in accordance with Ford's requirements; this means buying a Ford factory workshop manual (NOT a Gregorys, Max Ellerys, Haynes etc) and any service bulletins issued (consumer law in most states requires them to sell service manuals and related updates and bulletins to you on request - but from my experience expect to have to show them a copy of the relevant State consumer legislation before they sell you the bulletins), servicing it strictly according to that factory manual, buying any special tools specified in the Ford manual, buying all the oils and other fluids specified in the Ford manual and keeping receipts of all these items (i.e to demonstrate you had the factory manual before you commenced servicing your car) and any consumables used to service the car and being able to demonstrate your mechanical competence and knowledge should a dispute about warranty go to court or arbitration. I have done this with new cars and actually had no dispute with the dealer when it came to warranty fixes (albeit the items being replaced under warranty could in no way have been damaged by service failure).

THANKYOU, excellent info i will read thru it now.

as we will we only doing 10k kms a year i think the actual amount of servicing to be done will be minimal in the warranty period, but any tricky stuff will be farmed out if needed.
its just the oil/filter changes (yearly services) that im interested in

cheers

[saber]

Originally Posted by carrot13

it is common knowlege that FORD does not have to service the car, a registered workshop can do it.
but why cant a competent owner do it as well, i will fill in the books & provide receipts for genuine parts.

How then do you determine who a "competant owner" is?
For all Ford knows, you may have bought the parts, but not have a clue how to correctly dismantle car and install said part.
I'm only guessing here, but from Fords standpoint, they allow any certified mechanic to perform work on your car because they have the relevant qualifications in that field, and the pieces of paper to back that up.

I was in the same situation as you when my car was under warranty. It sucks I know, but if thats what you have to do, well thats what you have to do.

Now that my car is out of warranty, I do all the work I can do on my car, and if there is something I can't do, I take it in to a local mechanic.

[aussiblue]

As I said he will have to demonstrate competence. The poster having a trade certificate in mechanical fitting & machining will be well on his way and probably can also show some relevant years of work experience. In the event that there was a dispute that went to court , Ford (or any other manufacture disputing a warranty claim) could (and would probably need to) also produce relevant photographic evidence or expert witness evidence, if it existed, that a part was not fitted or service competently or according to their factory workshop specs.

There is obviously some risk in doing it yourself in terms of a major warranty claim and the manufacturer trying to wriggle out from their obligations. However, the offset is the cost savings in DIY and the small likelihood of a major failure against the risk of a major failure and that the manufacturer could then show that it was reasonably likely that it was due to incompetence of the service or service not being done strictly as they specified. And of course if you do make a mistake or not follow the specified service an repair requirements (including when done in terms of time and Kilometres) your are our in the cold.

[carrot13]

Originally Posted by saber

How then do you determine who a "competant owner" is?

well, i dont have the warrany conditions that went into this detail for the peugeot i bought, (sold the car) but it listed occupations & qualifications that were used to define what was ok - my trade quals were fine.


For all Ford knows, you may have bought the parts, but not have a clue how to correctly dismantle car and install said part.
I'm only guessing here, but from Fords standpoint, they allow any certified mechanic to perform work on your car because they have the relevant qualifications in that field, and the pieces of paper to back that up.

I was in the same situation as you when my car was under warranty. just out of interest, do you have a trade certificate in mechanical fitting? It sucks I know, but if thats what you have to do, well thats what you have to do.

but where is this a condition in the service guide? surely if this is definatley the case it should be spelt out in black & blue?


Now that my car is out of warranty, I do all the work I can do on my car, and if there is something I can't do, I take it in to a local mechanic.

cheers

[carrot13]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

As I said he will have to demonstrate competence. The poster having a trade certificate in mechanical fitting & machining will be well on his way and probably can also show some relevant years of work experience. In the event that there was a dispute that went to court , Ford (or any other manufacture disputing a warranty claim) could (and would probably need to) also produce relevant photographic evidence or expert witness evidence, if it existed, that a part was not fitted or service competently or according to their factory workshop specs.

There is obviously some risk in doing it yourself in terms of a major warranty claim and the manufacturer trying to wriggle out from their obligations. However, the offset is the cost savings in DIY and the small likelihood of a major failure against the risk of a major failure and that the manufacturer could then show that it was reasonably likely that it was due to incompetence of the service or service not being done strictly as they specified. And of course if you do make a mistake or not follow the specified service an repair requirements (including when done in terms of time and Kilometres) your are our in the cold.

also the fact that ford have not specifically spelt out anywhere that i can read, that servicing must be done by an accredidted workshop - which i am not.

also my dad is a motor mechaninc with 40years experience including doing some work on the london/sydney marathon winning XT GT's!

so he can supervise me changing the oil, filters & other required service work

cheers

[aussiblue]

also the fact that ford have not specifically spelt out anywhere that i can read, that servicing must be done by an accredidted workshop - which i am not.

also my dad is a motor mechaninc with 40years experience including doing some work on the london/sydney marathon winning XT GT's!

so he can supervise me changing the oil, filters & other required service work

Sounds like you are on pretty firm ground to me.

[aussiblue]

Just make sure you buy a good OBDII code reader with CAN capabilities and use it regularly ( i.e at each servvice interval to check for fault codes). A cheap secondhand laptop and something like this http://cgi.ebay.com.au/USB-Car-Diagn...item414c99d0e4 might be the cheapest option.

[carrot13]

ive got a laptop & thanks for the link

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by carrot13

it is common knowlege that FORD does not have to service the car, a registered workshop can do it.
but why cant a competent owner do it as well, i will fill in the books & provide receipts for genuine parts.

Yeah I know others can service it its just you can understand Ford wanting to do it themselves.

Just make sure you do use the genuuine parts with everything as Ive seen a few warranty claims turned down because of this.

[carrot13]

what i cant understand is why ford dont make it plainly clear in their conditons who they will allow to service the car, especially to a new car buyer.

yeah, i allways use genuine parts for all my new cars
cheers

[Kryton]

If its such an issue then why not take it up with them.
They are supplying the warranty at the end of the day - their rules.

It may not say it in your handbook but i bet it is written somewhere.

[carrot13]

i will take it up with them, but isnt asking questions about your ford car what this forum is all about?

i bought the car/warranty so the rules should be provided i would have thought

[Kryton]

The forum is about asking questions and learning.
You have had the question answered numerous times already though.
The salesman even gave you verbal notice that its not on - it isnt much more clear than that.

[carrot13]

do you believe everything a car salesman tells you? lol

there are also conflicting answers to my question here & maybe someone has seen the actual wording from ford & if it is actually provided when you buy a new car from them.

pretty important issue regarding their warranty i would have thought

as i said above the salesman also told me the free 3000km 'service' must be done at the selling ford dealer - i cant find that in writing anywhere either, so if it sounds like BS or fact please comment if you know.
thanks

[left]

This is not a fight I'd want to wage. It is hard enough to get Fraud to actually attend to issues under warranty when you do take your car to them; how many of us can attest to that! What chance do you have if you haven't?

[aussiblue]

They are supplying the warranty at the end of the day - their rules

Not so; they don't have complete freedom to make the rules; are constrained by various consumer and trade legislation including the Trade Practices Act. In fact the salesman may well be guilty of a breach in knowingly making a false and misleading statement.

[carrot13]

Originally Posted by left

This is not a fight I'd want to wage. It is hard enough to get Fraud to actually attend to issues under warranty when you do take your car to them; how many of us can attest to that! What chance do you have if you haven't?

i realise the warranty is not worth alot, this servicing issue was the final straw for me not taking out the extended warranty.

but as i see it i should be able to change the engine oil & filters etc & if the rear diff bush goes or the aircon stops working the work ive done should be irrelevant - this car will be kept stock, but my argument is similar to the ones purported by those who wish to modify their cars.
cheers

[aussiblue]

To quote from the link I gave in my first post:

Australian Federal Law sets forth requirements for warranties and contains a number of provisions to prevent vehicle manufacturers, dealers and others from unjustly denying warranty coverage. With regard to aftermarket parts, the spirit of the law is that warranty coverage cannot be denied simply because such parts are present on the vehicle, or have been used. The warranty coverage can be denied only if the aftermarket part caused the malfunction or damage for which warranty coverage is sought. Disputes in this area usually boil down to arguments over facts and technical opinions, rather than arguments over interpretations of the law.

Whilst head of the ACCC Professor Alan Fels felt that in the interest of fairness to the Australian public he commented on the offensive and unfair nature of Franchise Motor Dealers. In particular their predisposition to convincing the public at a large that they would void their vehicle warranty by choosing a service providor other than the seller of their vehicle.

Here is what Professor Fels said:

Here is some information that has been published by the ACCC about new car warranties.

"A common concern for new car buyers is their right to have someone, other than the dealer, service the car without putting warranties at risk. Judging by the large number of calls received by the ACCC many buyers are uncertain.

To put the record straight, dealers cannot declare a warranty void if the buyer has the vehicle serviced by someone else. The buyer, however, has an obligation to ensure that the selected service centre employs qualified staff, that servicing matches manufacturer’s specifications and only genuine or appropriate quality parts are used. If the centre implies that it can perform genuine servicing but falls below expectations then the customer has rights and remedies against it regardless of staff qualifications

Where a problem arises (other than in servicing) and it is covered by the warranty, the vehicle should be taken to the dealer for repair.

Under the Trade Practices Act dealers cannot limit their warranty obligations or claim the warranty is void if the vehicle is serviced by someone other than the dealer or its agent. The statutory warranty applies to new and second hand cars.

[mik]

if i was a car manufacturer, no disrespect intended, i would`nt be letting joe bloggs service the car and allow warranty either , tool maker or not, that would be setting a precedent that every tom deek or harry would be trying, if you did how could you police the owners that are doing the wrong thing then claiming warranty.

[carrot13]

but why dont they spell this out clearly in the terms & conditions of the warranty then??

also any mistakes the tom deek or harry might make would give them grounds to refuse the claim anyway, which is fair enough imo.

so you saying a ford trained motor mechanic is not allowed to service their own car at home & keep the warranty?

[last fairlane]

By the way the XT GTs didnt win the marathon it was won by a Hillman Hunter Andrew Cowan I think was the winning driver over 40 years ago
John

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by last fairlane

By the way the XT GTs didnt win the marathon it was won by a Hillman Hunter Andrew Cowan I think was the winning driver over 40 years ago
John

Where the hell did this /\ come from

Anyway I think a key sentence in aussiblue's post is "The buyer, however, has an obligation to ensure that the selected service centre employs qualified staff, that servicing matches manufacturer’s specifications and only genuine or appropriate quality parts are used." Would you consider 'qualified'? especially if you had to fight a claims battle if it came to that.?

Of course the major downside to self servicing a new(ish) car is that when you sell it you have no logbooks to show the buyer that servicing had been done when it was supposed to be.