Advice needed re: first infringement

[RAREV8]

Hi all,

I posted this in someone elses thread but it really wasn't the right place for it- I really need some proper advice on what to do next...those of you that know me would realise that this is not the kind on situation that I get myself in regularly- in fact, its the first time.



I have (had) a faultless driving record and at the age of 32, drove a lot of miles too......I was pinged doing 62 in a school zone the week before Christmas by a mobile radar setup.

What really made me upset was that I adhere so heavily to the speed limit in school zones but A)this was the only school in our area that wasn't broken up for holidays (most round us are private and break up earlier) and B) the signage was average to say the least...no lights, worn out road marks.

So, I wrote an extremely apologetic letter asking if they would be willing to review this particular case and received the answer that no, it was considered a very serious offence (no arguement from me) and in their opinion, the signage was adequate.

Well, a slightly bitter pill to swallow but essentially, I had broken the law and was dealt 3 demerits and a pretty high fine. I should be ok with this and normally, I suppose that I would be BUT for driving down the same stretch of Pacific Highway in Waitara, Northern Sydney, less than 2 weeks later, HUGE new 40 zone signage and big flashing lights have been erected!!!!!

One might pose the question that if the authorities believed that the signage was indeed adequate, why would you spend a lot of money to make it even more "adequate"??

Suffice to say I am very upset but am not sure what I will do next....presumably, I have to take it to a dispute court case............

Here is the exact content of the reply I received:

Dear Mr Lewis,

we are writing about your contact with us regarding penalty notice 5*******

We examined the details of the penalty notice and considered the issues you raise. Based on the circumstances you describe we cannot, under our guidelines, cancel or offer leniancy for this offence. We confirm the penalty notice was legally issued and conclude that the penaltl still applies.
While flashing lights are not used in every school zone, restrictions are clearly signposted with details of the speed limit and times at which restrictions are in place.
Demerit offences that occur in a school zone are considered to be serious offences. Because of this we are unable to consider leniancy based on a clear driving record for this type of offence.

Is this worth persuing? I just find it a little hypocritical when they immediately renewed the signage-= I am a proudly safe driver and agree with the sentiments that this should be considered a serious offence...any advice gladly taken on board.

Cheers, Jamie

[IAM58L]

I can understand where you are comming from with this but I think you will find if the signage was in place and comlied with the australian road rules well you pretty much have to pay the fine and cop it sweet. How much was the fine for? if its only for a smallish amount easier just to pay it and forget about it than fight it. Maybe contact the RTA or council and find out why they changed the signs then atleast if they say it was cause the old signs were not clear and so on you will have something to build a case around when you go to court.

[BFYOOT]

mate, having never been done for this im not sure on exeactly what to do, but id be looking at the other reason more closely i reckon, the fact that you said the majority of schools were on holidays. the signage thing is a bit of a dead end i think, but if you could somehow prove that say 4 out of 5 schools were on holidays, then to me this says that more effective signage should have been used (eg lights, etc), like they have since done. what is the limit at normal hours?

[TOASTED]

yep its bullshit mate. but what can you do.

[fordel]

Dont know what you would be able to do, but did you get any pics with a time/date stamp of the bad signage etc, and then some of the new ones with the new date etc ?

Might be able to prove that they werent the best and upgraded right after you got done ?

Good luck with the outcome though.

[cs123]

There must be some record in the council or main roads dept about the upgrade to the signage. There is normally a business case as to why something happens. They don't replace adequate signage for no reason.

Perhaps a FOI search for those details may yield something. But it'll cost

BTW, I feel for you. Sounds like you're pretty serious about being a responsible driver.

[XA-Coupe]

If you have paid up you are SOL. If you haven't, don't seek advice from people on the internet !! Give a legal centre a call and see what they think.

[RAREV8]

Originally Posted by XA-Coupe

If you have paid up you are SOL. If you haven't, don't seek advice from people on the internet !! Give a legal centre a call and see what they think.

Nope, haven't paid yet- the whole reason that I am asking people on the internet is that there are a handful of well informed members who know the legalities well.......

I will start by finding our exactly when the signage was changed and more importantly, why as was suggested earlier. I haven't tried to say that I was not in the wrong, its just a strange set of circumstances that led me to question the offence.

[DoreSlamR]

what kinda school is still open a week before xmas??

Are you 100% sure it wasn't closed?

[Conrad]

Mate, you just PAYED for that new sign.

[fangq]

Originally Posted by RAREV8

Hi all,

I posted this in someone elses thread but it really wasn't the right place for it- I really need some proper advice on what to do next...those of you that know me would realise that this is not the kind on situation that I get myself in regularly- in fact, its the first time.



I have (had) a faultless driving record and at the age of 32, drove a lot of miles too......I was pinged doing 62 in a school zone the week before Christmas by a mobile radar setup.

What really made me upset was that I adhere so heavily to the speed limit in school zones but A)this was the only school in our area that wasn't broken up for holidays (most round us are private and break up earlier) and B) the signage was average to say the least...no lights, worn out road marks.

So, I wrote an extremely apologetic letter asking if they would be willing to review this particular case and received the answer that no, it was considered a very serious offence (no arguement from me) and in their opinion, the signage was adequate.

Well, a slightly bitter pill to swallow but essentially, I had broken the law and was dealt 3 demerits and a pretty high fine. I should be ok with this and normally, I suppose that I would be BUT for driving down the same stretch of Pacific Highway in Waitara, Northern Sydney, less than 2 weeks later, HUGE new 40 zone signage and big flashing lights have been erected!!!!!

One might pose the question that if the authorities believed that the signage was indeed adequate, why would you spend a lot of money to make it even more "adequate"??

Suffice to say I am very upset but am not sure what I will do next....presumably, I have to take it to a dispute court case............

Here is the exact content of the reply I received:

Dear Mr Lewis,

we are writing about your contact with us regarding penalty notice 5*******

We examined the details of the penalty notice and considered the issues you raise. Based on the circumstances you describe we cannot, under our guidelines, cancel or offer leniancy for this offence. We confirm the penalty notice was legally issued and conclude that the penaltl still applies.
While flashing lights are not used in every school zone, restrictions are clearly signposted with details of the speed limit and times at which restrictions are in place.
Demerit offences that occur in a school zone are considered to be serious offences. Because of this we are unable to consider leniancy based on a clear driving record for this type of offence.

Is this worth persuing? I just find it a little hypocritical when they immediately renewed the signage-= I am a proudly safe driver and agree with the sentiments that this should be considered a serious offence...any advice gladly taken on board.

Cheers, Jamie

Bet you a dollar that's a canned reply aka the computer says" No"

Steve

[RAREV8]

Originally Posted by DoreSlamR

what kinda school is still open a week before xmas??

Are you 100% sure it wasn't closed?

Yep- I checked their terms on their website to be doubly sure- I think that it was on the 18th of december.
Maybe I'm fighting a losing battle but the stupid thing is that this experience hasn't and wont change my driving at all....mainly because I'm a pretty attentive driver anyway....pointless lesson- I'd rather have been pulled over in a school zone by an RBT- that at least would add some value to society.

[ebxr8240]

Be a good citizen and pay your fines...
The gov is building good transport system, so why complain....Lol.....
Your not Robinson Crusoe...

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by RAREV8

Yep- I checked their terms on their website to be doubly sure- I think that it was on the 18th of december.
Maybe I'm fighting a losing battle but the stupid thing is that this experience hasn't and wont change my driving at all....mainly because I'm a pretty attentive driver anyway....pointless lesson- I'd rather have been pulled over in a school zone by an RBT- that at least would add some value to society.

What does the calendar state re: school holidays?

With the introduction of better notification of the school zones operating times, and obscure holiday periods for that school, you may have an argument. Sounds like its a public school so the dates will be uniform for public schools and the dates on the calendar, which would limit you to questionable signage. If it meets all the ADR's, youve got bubkiss.

[jcxr]

07 school hols in NSW,4th term, 14th oct-21st dec.

[ltd]

Sorry to hear about it mate.
Two people you can call though, Dennis Moralis who is the solicitor that takes cases such as these on although you will have to pay money for his services or you could call the radio station 2GB as they have Eric (mummy's boy) Roosendahl on as a regular around these farcical offences. Best to call before midday. Good Luck mate, it sounds suspiciously that they found that their signage was inadequate as a result of your request and don't want to set the precedent. Just remember though, RTA now stands for Road Tax Authority.

[ebxr8240]

A call cam up on 2UE yesterday... Said he pullled out of a friends place which was inside school speed zone and wasn't sign posted...