Interesting Drive article E10 vs 91RON vs 95 RON

[Yellow_Festiva]

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...9627&vf=2&pg=2

So... it seems that E10 is the Prius of the fuel industry.

[BIGJB]

Doesn't suprise me in the slightest.
I normally refuse to use anything but 98 (which is proving to be hard in NZ)
quite often have to splash 10 ltrs of 95 in to get to next town that has 98.
Over here Shell v power is only 95 : and BP ultimate is hard to come by.

[Ives]

I wouldnt go below 98RON.

[nugget378]

the thing is, e10 is more like 10+ cp/l cheaper than 98, so with that price difference there would be a saving I would think..

[EDManual]

I think e 10 is useless, in my new Hyundai Elantra, I swear it uses at least 20% more! Its terrible, and worse than that, it makes food prices go up. Its a scam.

[Whitey-AMG]

Here in VIC , Ive seen a number of SHELL and UNITED servos rennovate and re open with brand new E10 bowsers.

The main issue with any fuel is the car's engine management programming to deal with the fuel. It wasn't that long ago that independent tests clearly showed that running Premium Unleaded on cars primarily designed to run on standard uleaded yielded inconclusive benefits.......In fact, the best compromise was to run 95 RON fuels.

It's like switching from Unleaded to LPG......If the car is tuned to run strictly on LPG, there are huge benefits with only minor performance losses.

I'm sure the new EURO V standards will see car's running much better on E10 / 20 fuels than the current cars as it will be inherent in their design and operation.

[Rodp]

United Petroleum general manager David Szymczak...

Holy crap, I think his parents may have been sniffing petrol when they filled in his birth certificate.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by ESP

Here in VIC , Ive seen a number of SHELL and UNITED servos rennovate and re open with brand new E10 bowsers.

The main issue with any fuel is the car's engine management programming to deal with the fuel. It wasn't that long ago that independent tests clearly showed that running Premium Unleaded on cars primarily designed to run on standard uleaded yielded inconclusive benefits.......In fact, the best compromise was to run 95 RON fuels.

It's like switching from Unleaded to LPG......If the car is tuned to run strictly on LPG, there are huge benefits with only minor performance losses.

I'm sure the new EURO V standards will see car's running much better on E10 / 20 fuels than the current cars as it will be inherent in their design and operation.

Finally some sense in this thread.
One article talks to a person that works on high performance cars and says E10 is crap, or they do there ACA style 'independant' tests and you all jump on it.
But I only run 98ron on my base model Falcon....jeez paying extra money for nothing. Remember ulitmate runs 3% ethenol as a cleaning agent.

Oh ESP btw United has had E10 95 for over 2 years now.

[Zed7fiddy]

I run E10 in my 92 Lancer, the only car i would ever let it near, its $400 shi77er that i only use when its raingin too much to use the bike!

The bike i never put anything other then ultimate in!

[csv8]

Sugar belongs in my coffee, not my car.....
Ghia runs rough on E10 and my FIESTA gets around 11l per 100kms on E10. Sticking to PULP in both cars.

[Ives]

Since when alcohol = sugar?

[Spanrz]

Love the answer diversion there.

"United Petroleum general manager David Szymczak says overseas studies find the fuel consumption difference between E10 and unleaded can be as low as1 percent."

"United’s E10 fuel has a higher octane rating (95RON ) than that of other distributors. ‘‘When you consider that you can get 3 percent to5 percent better economy just by having the right air [pressure] in your tyres, it’s a very minor issue,’’ Szymczaksays.

"But the head of engine development for Porsche’s Cayman sports car, Jurgen Kapfer, says there is no doubt E10 is less efficient. Kapfer should know."

I thought Porsche cars can't run Ethanol?? But alas, when you read it, it talks about a new release that can.
So all previous models can't use it. But the latest one can, lol, lots of trade-ins happening.....You'll wonder why there is such a cheap porsche soon!

Originally Posted by Ives

Since when alcohol = sugar?

Since Jim Beam, Beer, Bundy became drinks :

[The Monty]

I get flat tyres when I put in Ethanol.

I get 700k's to a tank on 95 ethanol, 600 on regular, and some 98's make it so horrible to drive its not funny.

Its all dependent on the car, the tune, how its driven, etc etc etc.

[EDManual]

In the latest Motor Mag, they show the v8 supercars will be running on e85, and that its uses something like 40% more fuel!

Also litre for litre the emissions are basically 40% down on some things with e85, but as it uses 40% more for the same power, its the same! Even worse for some types of emmisions.

This is all tuned for e85, so its best case.

e10 has only been mandated in QLD and NSW because of the farmer vote. They want high prices for their crops.

[xtremerus]

Originally Posted by EDManual

In the latest Motor Mag, they show the v8 supercars will be running on e85, and that its uses something like 40% more fuel!

Also litre for litre the emissions are basically 40% down on some things with e85, but as it uses 40% more for the same power, its the same! Even worse for some types of emmisions.

This is all tuned for e85, so its best case.

e10 has only been mandated in QLD and NSW because of the farmer vote. They want high prices for their crops.

Spot on.
Just think of the cost/km when the fuel excise tax on ethanol will be the same as petrol in a few years time.
Each year the tax will slowly increase to match petrol. With the dive in petrol prices at the moment, ethanol is more expensive to produce than petrol. That reduced price of E petrol is an artificial one and not the real cost.

[Nikked]

E1o is bad for you car, i causes fuel prices to go up and has no plus benifets. Elvis is still alive, and recons that he will never use it in his cadillac. Also of interesting note is that when i filled up with e10, my car grew a holden badge and sprouted tulips out of its plenum grill.

[MAGPIE]

Originally Posted by 99GHIA

Doesn't suprise me in the slightest.
I normally refuse to use anything but 98 (which is proving to be hard in NZ)
quite often have to splash 10 ltrs of 95 in to get to next town that has 98.
Over here Shell v power is only 95 : and BP ultimate is hard to come by.

: Where do you live that you find Ultimate hard to come by

[Buzz Box]

So what PULP does everyone use then??

Shell? BP? Caltex?

[Ives]

BP Ultimate cos it's pretty convenient to get to.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by EDManual

e10 has only been mandated in QLD and NSW because of the farmer vote. They want high prices for their crops.

What on earth is wrong with that? We could divert some of our fuel expenditure to Australian primary industry, who will then put that money back into our economy. Or we could put that money in the bank account of some overseas oil tycoon that will spend it on his next gold plated Rolls Royce or Bugatti Veyron, to sit in the warehouse along with all the others that he has.

No brainer if you ask me.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Oh ESP btw United has had E10 95 for over 2 years now.

Yes, you are absolutely correct , Its just that I've noticed more bowsers with the E10 lately. As mentioned, our local SHELL shut down for renos and then re opened with a stack load of new E10 bowsers..........seems there is quite a push to get this fuel distributed to the public.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by ESP

Yes, you are absolutely correct , Its just that I've noticed more bowsers with the E10 lately. As mentioned, our local SHELL shut down for renos and then re opened with a stack load of new E10 bowsers..........seems there is quite a push to get this fuel distributed to the public.

A Shell near me got rid of all their 95 bowsers for that E10 crap. Wasn't happy. Luckily non of the others in the area did. Mine chews through the juice on E10, its a false economy. I'd rather pay a little more for quality 95 rather than something that may cause problems down the track, and so I also don't have to fill up so often.

[g220ba]

i've been warned by a cylinder head specialist to steer clear of e10 in anything with alloy heads. apparently the combustion temps are raised by using e10 inturn melting/warping the alloy in the heads. I' ve heard of 1 case a 4 stroke boat motor so there may be some truth to it.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by 84ltd

i've been warned by a cylinder head specialist to steer clear of e10 in anything with alloy heads. apparently the combustion temps are raised by using e10 inturn melting/warping the alloy in the heads. I' ve heard of 1 case a 4 stroke boat motor so there may be some truth to it.

I find that hard to believe........LPG would burn much hotter than any E10 fuel and there doesn't seem to be a plethora of LPG Falcons reporting melted cylinder heads !!!

In fact, I'd question that theory as Ethanol ( or any alcohol based fuel ) would actually burn cooler ???

[g220ba]

mate didn't say it was fact or that i 100% believe just something that was put to me. i still believe it's to early to see any real long term effects from using it.

[Nikked]

-E85 tends to use 20-30% more fuel then unleaded, so anyone claiming that they are using 20% more fuel on E10 is a lier.

-People complain that after on ethanol their car runs rough, ethonl is a great cleaning agent, your cars running rough because you've had a dirty fuel filter, and that dirt is runing though the system.

-Australias e10 is from sugercain by products that are largly unused and allready extracted, environment impact is very little. Most studies are based around american ethanol, made from specialy planted maze crops.

-this also rules out the raising of food prices argument.

-As stated before, some higher octane fuels use a % of Ethanol in the fuel blend, so you may already be using ethanol

-Most e10 has a rating of 95+ron

I have a loose theory that any hardline anti E10 folk have a tin foil hat tucked away in the cupboard.

[Swordsman88]

I have recently switched to E10 95 RON for my EF. It is pretty much the only fuel i use now. This is quite a change for me, since i previously ran 91 RON and avoided ethanol blends. I found the EF chugged through the shell E10 91, to the point it didn't make it cost effective (highway running was the only certain proof - 0.8-1 l/100km more: ). THe 5% E 91Ron at BP was good on fuel burn, but wasn't as cheap (same cost as other 91Ron non Ethanol fuels).

Then my local caltex woolies changed to Freedom fuels (independent). They are running the whole 'green is better trip' and so have only E10 blends (except for diesel obviously, but they claim it is partialy biodiesel so whatever). They have E10 91, 95, 98. The price is what is attractive though, because they are cheaper, sometimes much cheaper than competitors and atcually seem to pass on the ethanol cost advantage so to speak. The 91 E5 up the road from BP was 99c the other day, but Freedom had 95 E10 (whcih i use) for 94.9. So i started using the 95E10 and found it to be just the same on fuel as the 91 Unleaded of competitors, but is actually cheaper and the car seems to 'rev out' more cleanly (could be in my head). Idle was at first less stable, but has settled down (probably cleaning any crap out).

What is strange is that 91E10 is often more than 95E10 at Freedom? Is this because the 95E10 is just united fuel?? I was told Freedom blend their own fuels (who else has 98E10???) but maybe the 95 they don't because how on earth can it be cheaper??? Does anyone else use Freedom fuels or know much about it because the car seems to quite like the stuff????

[opto]

Originally Posted by EDManual

In the latest Motor Mag, they show the v8 supercars will be running on e85, and that its uses something like 40% more fuel!

Also litre for litre the emissions are basically 40% down on some things with e85, but as it uses 40% more for the same power, its the same! Even worse for some types of emmisions.

This is all tuned for e85, so its best case.

e10 has only been mandated in QLD and NSW because of the farmer vote. They want high prices for their crops.

Some things here dont add up, E85 is a blend of 75% Ethanol and 25% Petroleum, hypothetically if say at Bathurst an average Supercar uses 600 Litres of 98 Ron fuel, that means it would use 840 Litres of E85, out of that about 300 litres is the petroleum so 50% less emission, however the carbon footprint to manufacture the Ethanol is significantly larger than petroleum.

So V8 Supercar is seen as doing the right thing, and that would be a good sales point especially for CSR, when in actual fact they are supporting a fuel that will have a negative impact on the environment.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by ESP

Yes, you are absolutely correct , Its just that I've noticed more bowsers with the E10 lately. As mentioned, our local SHELL shut down for renos and then re opened with a stack load of new E10 bowsers..........seems there is quite a push to get this fuel distributed to the public.

Yeah I've noticed a whole heap of shells starting to sell E10 as well. Also alot of united servo's springing up...just no 98E10 anymore but a couple of 100E10's on the other side of town.

I like the E10 stuff, same fuel economy but the car seems to go better, so I'll continue to use it.

[ebxr8240]

Originally Posted by opto

Some things here don't add up, E85 is a blend of 75% Ethanol and 25% Petroleum, hypothetically if say at Bathurst an average Supercar uses 600 Litres of 98 Ron fuel, that means it would use 840 Litres of E85, out of that about 300 litres is the petroleum so 50% less emission,petroleum. however the carbon footprint to manufacture the Ethanol is significantly larger than

So V8 Supercar is seen as doing the right thing, and that would be a good sales point especially for CSR, when in actual fact they are supporting a fuel that will have a negative impact on the environment.

Not correct in this part as there is NO carbon being made growing plants..
They actually absorb it and we burn it in our cars..