Will Honda Stay in Australia

[peaterj]

Honda is having a few discussions whether to stay in Australia .

https://www.caradvice.com.au/833648/...ing-australia/

[whitelion65]

Who?

They lost the plot a few years ago.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by peaterj

Honda is having a few discussions whether to stay in Australia .

https://www.caradvice.com.au/833648/...ing-australia/

Could be interesting as our Holden dealer is also the Honda dealer here.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by peaterj

Honda is having a few discussions whether to stay in Australia .

https://www.caradvice.com.au/833648/...ing-australia/

They were a crappy expensive copy of Toyota trying to emulate their white goods market 10 years ago when I started out there in the industry.

They should find their nuts and start churning out decent cars like the 1990s/00s - a lot of innovation came out of Honda during those periods then they chucked it all in to try make white goods.

They've been recycling the K20/K24 engine for 20 years now.

[marty351]

Sister had a '93 Prelude, design, engineering, build quality, damn fine car. Worked on a Jazz a few years ago, looked and felt like a Nissan Pulsar, not even close to the same quality as the prelude. I could be wrong but the Accord Euro was the last of the quality Hondas sold here.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by marty351

Sister had a '93 Prelude, design, engineering, build quality, damn fine car. Worked on a Jazz a few years ago, looked and felt like a Nissan Pulsar, not even close to the same quality as the prelude. I could be wrong but the Accord Euro was the last of the quality Hondas sold here.

Agree - Accord Euro was still built in Japan, everything else went to Thailand.

The Accord Euro would have been wicked if we got the same option of the 3.5L V6 that the US market had, unfortunately we only had the K24 variant. It was nice to drive in 6sp manual variant but its torqueless, would have been a good P plater car but they were about $40K back in the day for the midspec Luxury with the leather interior and rad stereo.

Interestingly, this year the 7th generation Accord Euro R which was a Japanese exclusive model has just been given the green light for import approval and compliance in Australia - its got the smaller K20 engine similar to the DC5 Integra Type R, a bit more power (At bloody 8000 RPM) but less torque.


My sister has a current model Jazz complete with CVT, it struggles to maintain 110km/h on the freeway when you point it up a hill, the build quality is crap and the A/C sucks too, absolute junk.

[Eurotrash]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Could be interesting as our Holden dealer is also the Honda dealer here.

That's a little awkward!

[danzvtil]

I think their reputation was a hang over from the 90s Japanese bubble when every car was over engineered and had mind blowing features compared to the rest of the worlds manufacturers. Honda had to become mainstream in order to make profit.
I had an 08 accord, it was sensational, but not as solidly built as earlier models. Now my ex wife has an ‘18 civic, and its just ok. It looks nice, will probably last a long time, but doesn’t make you excited to drive it.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by danzvtil

I think their reputation was a hang over from the 90s Japanese bubble when every car was over engineered and had mind blowing features compared to the rest of the worlds manufacturers. Honda had to become mainstream in order to make profit.
I had an 08 accord, it was sensational, but not as solidly built as earlier models. Now my ex wife has an ‘18 civic, and its just ok. It looks nice, will probably last a long time, but doesn’t make you excited to drive it.

Looking at their previous range from around 10+ years ago you had the

Jazz
City
Civic
CRZ
CRV
Accord
Accord Euro
MDX
Odyssey
Legend

The Jazz and City were middle of the road small commuters that weren't anything special compared to it's competition.

The Civic is a bigger version of the two above, it was underpowered compared to it's competition with a 1.8L or 2L engine option, the Type R model sucked compared to the older Integra Type R with less power in a heavier car.

The CRZ was a cool concept with hybrid but underpowered and too heavy, it was supposed to be a modern take on the 1980s CRX.

The CRV started out as a good compact SUV that got increasingly larger but maintained the small engine.

The Accord is a large sedan designed for the American market, albeit the shopping models came with the 4 cylinder engine, alternative to the Camry, standout was the V6 Luxury model with 3.5L V6 but it's Thailand manufactured, why would you pay more for this over Falcon and Commodore that were both RWD?

Accord Euro was the standout model for Honda - Japanese made midsize sedan, top rate build quality and a little more exciting than it's competition.

MDX was a large SUV designed for American market, more expensive and some further electronic trickery but the Territory was a much nicer ride and a cheaper buy.

Odyssey is another of Honda's standout cars, this redefined the people mover market in that it looked great, unfortunately only 4 cylinder engine option that was lacking in such a heavy car, if you put 7 people in it then it would just about go backwards if pointed at a hill.

Legend - flagship car, large sedan, AWD, massive amount of electronic trinkets but at $70K plus the Fairlane and Caprice are again much better buys.

I've driven and worked on all of them, they marketed themselves as the 'Asian BMW' in Australia but their cars were nothing special, just overpriced for what they actually were, small engines, low end to middle of the road performance because of a reliance on the same engine family across 70% of their range, everything was naturally aspirated K20/K24 engines with the larger 3.5L V6 making an appearance occasionally.

They had two models worth buying, Accord Euro and Odyssey, the latter specifically for customers who didn't understand prophylactic use.

The new Accord looks interesting and they've moved to turbocharged engines finally but again they're still underpowered, the only exciting car they have is the new Civic Type R but again it's too expensive.

Middle of the road and premium pricing, if you're happy with mundane you might as well as buy Toyota because they're cheaper to buy and maintain.

I see they've made an attempt to cap service pricing on valve clearance adjustment - it's was every 40,000km when I was there 10 years ago and it was $750 in 2010 for a 40,000km interval service at the minimum.

In terms of running costs, the Accord comes with a fairly standard three-year, 100,000km warranty. There is also a six-monthly capped price servicing program, with the first three years of servicing coming in at a hefty $1741. It's also worth noting that every 24 months, you may be up for a valve clearance adjustment, which comes in at $556.

As you can imagine doing the valve clearances on the bank of cylinders facing the firewall is great fun, everyone used to hide in the loo or take longer on their jobs if they knew a V6 was in for a 40,000km interval service and it was getting closer to the top of the pile.

We're not missing anything if they leave our market, they can take their bat and ball and go home for all I care.

[jpd80]

Honda is not the only brand making no money in RHD Australia
I bet that low priced Kia and Hyundai don’t make any money
either and both would pull out if not for the prestige of gaining
market share here.

[MethodX]

Is that why all the Honda ricers seemed to disappear?

But on a serious note The S2000 sports car was an attractive thing.
Rev happy.

[cheap]

If Honda leaves, we will be left with Toyota, Ford (only just), Nissan (only just), Mazda, the Koreans and a bunch of dysfunctional overpriced Europeans. Oh there is always Tesla 😂

[Polyal]

Honda seem to be where Toyota were 5-10 years ago. Toyota has seen the light and added some more spice to their line up.

Agreed the CRZ had potential but a limited market even if the thing was a bullet.

The Civic is nice but seems to have lost its way and the rest of the range is average. The Oddessy is getting killed by the Carnival.

RIP to the S2000 aswell, thats a gun car and used prices are starting to go silly. I see Honda has even started a program to make genuine repro parts.

Honda and Nissan need to lift there game, I guess Mitsubishi took the hardline and just culled but they are also just pumping out white goods these days.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Eurotrash

That's a little awkward!

Other than Holden and Honda they also have Mercedes, Renault, Kia, Isuzu and Jeep (Chrysler and Dodge) so they wont be exactly destitute.

[Bossxr8]

And people keep wondering why Ford are pricing their cars where they have. Because they are solidly profitable. The others selling them at bargain basement RRP's are probably making stuff all money. If not now losing money due to the drop in the aussie dollar.

Kia even admitted they will soon be losing money on all the cars they sell, and can only make some of that back on SUV's.

In terms of Honda, who cares if they do leave. Their cars are boring and look like ****e. Only the Civic Type R would be worth driving, but it looks like a 10 year old designed it. And the NSX, but they have sold less than 10 of those.

What happened to all the cool stuff they used to make?

[Smoke Pursuit]

I said this in another thread. I believe we will see more car companies exit Australia over the next few years. Profits are way down, things like longer warranties to stay competitive are all costing them a fortune.

The other thing is dealerships are no where near as profitable as they used to be due to changes in consumer credit, which means franchisees are going back to manufacturers looking for bigger incentives to stay afloat. The industry is nothing like it was 5 - 10 years ago.

[ute83]

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

I said this in another thread. I believe we will see more car companies exit Australia over the next few years.

I reckon the French will wave the white flag. (Again)

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by ute83

I reckon the French will wave the white flag. (Again)

Be No loss..once they're out of warranty nothing but a Money Pit..

[MethodX]

The new Accord might be a well made car.... but its certainly not the best looker.
Honda need to poach some Mazda designers.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by ute83

I reckon the French will wave the white flag. (Again)

I'm surprised they're still here. Hardly ever seen any French cars apart from some Koleos' and a handful of Peugeot 5008's


It's like Honda. Do they sell anything but HRV these days? I see the odd Civic and some HRV's

[oldel]

Nobody buys anything except SUVs these days and the HRV is all they have.
Honda cars aren't bad, but these days no one goes looking for them as they're not exciting. Old civics, preludes, accords were decent cars but nondescript Thai made plain cars of a brand people have forgotten is a losing strategy - just ask nissan and mits. You can't out-suv, out-sedan, out-corolla or out-bland toyota at their game.

Also something not mentioned is honda have to be hurting due to takata air bag faults. Currently having to buy back many old cars to take them off the road.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by oldel

Nobody buys anything except SUVs these days and the HRV is all they have.

They have the engineering know-how. It seems strange that they don't bother with the SUV space. I think they could do it at least as well as Toyota.

[oldel]

They could of course, but it's the risk, it's getting sales. Hyundai/Kia have gained inroads based on price and longest warranties, seems toyota don't have to do anything. I'm being mean there because of course toyota are doing hybrids well.

These days performance doesn't matter as everyone is afraid of fines or there's too much traffic on the road. So I guess tech, ICE economy, hybrids, long warranties, good looks, under cutting toyota on price is what it takes right now.

Honda are doing it with warranty right now but I had to search that to check just then, I didn't even know it's 7 year, unlimited kms so their marketing also sucks. Marketing is what got the ford ranger sold and that's fords greatest success and honda aren't doing that for sure. They've also got the problem of good cars not offered here but that's the point. EG isn't there the pilot in USA that sells well? a similar v6 engine version would be something they could sell here besides just the i4 current SUV range. E: also they need better auto trans than cvt - I think auto transmissions have been and always will be hondas weak spot.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by oldel

. E: also they need better auto trans than cvt - I think auto transmissions have been and always will be hondas weak spot.

Absolutely, the old 5sp auto was a piece of crap too, they used to regularly flog out on new cars on Accord Euros and cars with 2.4L K24 engines, every week we were pulling one out under warranty.

Turns out they couldn't handle the 'increased torque' from the K24

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by MethodX

The new Accord might be a well made car.... but its certainly not the best looker.
Honda need to poach some Mazda designers.

They are bringing the new Accord in, yet only plan on selling 150 a year because the price is near 50k.

What is the point of bringing it in, only to plan on selling 150 a year? Seems like a complete woftam.

And it's not even a V6, but a weak little 4 cylinder

[roddy1960]

One day we will be buying similar looking boring boxes on wheels that it takes an expert to distinguish what it is ....

Oh wait ....already happening now .

[CyberWasp]

Honda is another company that does not listen to what its customers want.

[MITCHAY]

The Japanese manufacturers as a whole seem to not care too much about this other than chasing a broader market and along the way made some questionable design choices.

There is a long list of cars they used to make that we liked. Much shorter these days and they are either outdated, overpriced, under specced and/or ugly

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

They are bringing the new Accord in, yet only plan on selling 150 a year because the price is near 50k.

What is the point of bringing it in, only to plan on selling 150 a year? Seems like a complete woftam.

And it's not even a V6, but a weak little 4 cylinder

They sell more Dodge RAM's a month

[Eurotrash]

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

I said this in another thread. I believe we will see more car companies exit Australia over the next few years. Profits are way down, things like longer warranties to stay competitive are all costing them a fortune.

The other thing is dealerships are no where near as profitable as they used to be due to changes in consumer credit, which means franchisees are going back to manufacturers looking for bigger incentives to stay afloat. The industry is nothing like it was 5 - 10 years ago.

There are a few others that come to mind that I could see exit the Australian market in the next year or so if the current economic climate hangs around longer than we think.

1. Genesis
2. Mahindra
3. Fiat
4. Citroen
5. Peugeot
6. Renault
7. Nissan
8. SsangYong
9. Chrysler (Not Jeep)
10. Alfa Romeo

I can almost see FCA being a two brand company, with Jeep and RAM, their only representation. Fiat and Alfa Romeo cars will go and their Fiat LCV's, the Doblo and Ducato vans could be rebadged as RAMs, like they are in the North and South American markets. After the 300 is finished, Chrysler has nothing left on offer and Dodge looks like it'll never make a return, despite the brand being in 'lets wait and see' mode for the Australian market.

While I've put Peugeot on the list, I think it's more likely we'll see Citroen go first. Citroen are only doing 400 vehicles a year in Australia now, so unless they, Inchcape do something special, I think its days are numbered.

The Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi alliance will be interesting to watch. If Nissan gets it's way, it'll be Nissan and Mitsubishi only, leaving Renault out in the cold. Renault could pull out of Australia and maybe RHD markets altogether, Nissan could also exit, as silly as that sounds, but who would've thought we'd see Honda in this situation and I feel Nissan is in the same boat. It could just leave Mitsubishi in Australia as part of the old alliance group, with Renault a Euro only brand and Nissan a US and Chinese only brand.

Genesis, well this is just like watching Infiniti all over again. Infiniti will officially leave the Australian market this year, even though it was announced in 2019.

Mahinda will go the same way as Tata, old tech and old designs, along with not meeting emission laws, will see the brand go. Interesting Mahindra is actually the parent company of South Korean brand SsangYong, which made it's re-launch last year in Australia, but I think we'll find that the market has become too competitive and I wouldn't be surprised if they make a retreat again in the next few years.

This is just my opinion ……