NSW pressured to extend point-to-point speed cameras

[Express]

NSW pressured to extend point-to-point speed cameras



Sean Nicholls
James Robertson
Nick Ralston

3 November, 2016



NSW remains the only Australian state not using existing point-to-point speed camera technology to catch cars breaking the limit, despite a soaring road toll and having signed a national commitment to do so more than five years ago.

The technology, shown to reduce death and serious injury from crashes by up to 85 per cent, was endorsed by the Australian Transport Council's National Road Safety Strategy for 2011-20.

The strategy was agreed to by Australia's federal, state and territory roads and infrastructure ministers in 2011 and committed them to "install where appropriate point-to-point cameras to improve speed compliance among all vehicles" by 2014.

In NSW there are 25 point-to-point speed camera zones – which average a vehicle's speed over an extended distance – deployed to detect speeding trucks at accident black spots.



Failed to extend use of point-to-point speed cameras: Roads Minister Duncan Gay. Photo: Edwina Pickles


They were introduced in 2010 by the then Labor government, but only for heavy vehicles.

Despite signing the strategy – and a recommendation by the NSW Staysafe Committee in 2013 that the transport department consider extending their use to cars and other light vehicles – Roads Minister Duncan Gay has failed to do so.

The issue has resurfaced ahead of a summit of roads ministers in Perth on Thursday to be attended by Mr Gay and at which federal roads minister Darren Chester has nominated the national road toll as a priority for discussion.

On Wednesday, Mr Gay – a senior Nationals MP – said not introducing point-to-point speed cameras for cars and light vehicles "is an election commitment and will not change".

The technology "is and will continue to be used exclusively for heavy vehicles because the program has shown to be effective for long-haul trips up and down the main highways", he said.

He argued the government's speed camera and police enforcement strategy for light vehicles is working and fatalities have decreased 90 per cent at fixed-speed camera locations.

However, a spokeswoman for Mr Chester, when asked if the federal minister would like to see NSW extend its point-to-point cameras to cars, told Fairfax Media: "Road safety is on the agenda and the minister intends to discuss this issue at the [Thursday] meeting."

Existing point-to-point systems are in place and used for all vehicles in Victoria, Queensland, South Australia and the ACT and a trial has begun in Western Australia.

As of Tuesday, 332 people had died on NSW roads so far in 2016 – 42 more people than at the same time last year. The three-year average for road deaths at this time of year is 275.

Of those killed on the road this year, 220 died in crashes in country areas – an 18 per cent increase on the same time last year.

Dr John Crozier, chairman of the Royal Australasian College of Surgeons National Trauma Committee, said Mr Gay should extend point-to-point cameras to cars due to "a rising death and serious injury rate, particularly concerning this last 12 months".

"As a vascular and trauma surgeons we do see in our day-to-day work the consequence of serious injury on our roads," he said.

"Every state with point-to-point cameras uses them in the way they had been intended except NSW. It's just a case of turning a switch on."

Professor Max Cameron, from the Monash University Accident Research Centre, noted that the NSW system "could be turned on tomorrow and prosecute cars for speeding. There's no rational explanation for it."

Professor Cameron suggested the inaction could be political, noting that conservative governments in particular are reluctant "to threaten rural motorists" with the technology.

In a letter to Premier Mike Baird last month, copied to Mr Gay, the Australian Trucking Association urged them to consider applying the point-to-point regime to all vehicles.

The chairman of the Pedestrian Council, Harold Scruby, who has championed the push to extend use of the cameras for cars, criticised Mr Gay's inaction.

A freedom of information request by Mr Scruby in 2011 revealed that almost 100,000 drivers were detected speeding by point-to-point cameras in NSW in nine months in 2010, but none was penalised due to the trucks-only application.

"Evidence from his own office has revealed 42 per cent of deaths are speed-related, yet he steadfastly refuses, without reason, to flick a switch which will save countless lives and limbs," Mr Scruby said.

A spokesman for the NRMA said the organisation's current policy was to support the government's policy of only monitoring heavy vehicles and favoured increased highway patrols to reduce speeding.

"It's around getting the balance right," he said.

"When it comes to road safety, our view is that changes to the system need to be based on evidence. We are always open to anything that saves lives."

.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/nsw-pressu...02-gsg8de.html

[Taily]

Thank god we have a half way reasonable (OK don't lynch me, but by a measure of his actions he is well above and beyond ANY who have held the position previously) Roads Minister with a decent set of nads to really keep the 'Everyone should Stay Home So No-One gets hurt' committes etc at bay.

Fair Dinkum, they need to realise that road death toll figures go up and down from time to time and that while obviously no deaths are preferred it is an unobtainable goal, best only minimised by better driver and rider training and better roads (something Old Duncan seems to be right onto). Besides, what does old mate Scruby say we should do about peeps wandering along with their ipods etc blaring in their ears wandering into the paths of vehicles.... Or kids running out in front of cars chasing something... He's strangely silent... Besides NSW figures are often going to be higher than other states as people traverse the state driving between Vic and Qld and vice versa.

[mike_nofx]

I hope this doesn't come in for cars!
I regularly drive through one between Bulli and Wollongong and it's a ridiculous idea even for trucks as the road it's on is quite hilly. So trucks will do 120+km/h down hills then 40-50kmh uphill and in the end the speed averages out.

[Sioso]

"NSW remains the only Australian state not using existing point-to-point speed camera technology to catch cars breaking the limit, despite a soaring road toll and having signed a national commitment to do so more than five years ago."

They keep dropping speed limits in NSW yet we have a soaring road toll, that's the only statistic you need.

[Peter B - CV8]

I'm all for their introduction - but with one condition... if their installed on a tollway & your average speed is lower than the posted speed limit/s (due to traffic jams etc) - then you don't get charged a toll fee...

[Trump]

Originally Posted by Peter B - CV8

I'm all for their introduction - but with one condition... if their installed on a tollway & your average speed is lower than the posted speed limit/s (due to traffic jams etc) - then you don't get charged a toll fee...

Oh look there's a pig flying...

It is the nation's worst kept secret that these cameras are instruments of raising revenue and nothing else. Considering how pacified (and scared witless) the driving population is, there wouldn't be an outcry if they came out and admitted as such.

There are only three ways to reduce the road toll:

- better cars
- better driver education
- better roads

[bathurst-racer]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

Oh look there's a pig flying...

It is the nation's worst kept secret that these cameras are instruments of raising revenue and nothing else. Considering how pacified (and scared witless) the driving population is, there wouldn't be an outcry if they came out and admitted as such.

There are only three ways to reduce the road toll:

- better cars
- better driver education
- better roads

When it comes to heavy vehicles no sane person could argue about these point to point cameras. Yes I do drive heavy vehicles nearly every day and I depise the cowboy element who ignore the posted speed limits and poor road conditions.
I do agree that point to point for cars without a generous tolerance would be revenue raising at its cynical worst.

[commodorenutt]

Gotta give Duncan Gay credit for opening up the NSW Historic Rego system to be more flexible & encourage the (legal) use of historic vehicles, as well as taking steps to try to encourage self-management to weed out the abusers.

I just saw a headline on the TV this morning that said NSW rakes in $700k/day from speed cameras - up some 3 digit % amount, yet the road toll is up 15%.

Statistics are now telling them it's simply revenue raising - that the cameras are not improving the road toll numbers, and Duncan Gay has listened to them, and to the people. No doubt they'll shunt him sideways for for having a brain....

[commodorenutt]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

There are only three ways to reduce the road toll:

- better cars
- better driver education
- better roads

2 more:
1. Lower the population
2. Have less people on the road.

It always amuses me that the media bangs on about the road toll increasing, comparing this year's road deaths to those of previous years - even up to 20 years ago, but don't take into account not only the boom in population, but also the additional road user numbers.

More of the population are spending time on the road compared to the "old days" when less families had both parents working, kids walked to school or rode bikes, and people could afford to live closer to work - thus driving fewer km.

On a per-capita basis, and on a per-km spent on the road, our road toll numbers have dropped dramatically.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by commodorenutt

2 more:
1. Lower the population
2. Have less people on the road.

It always amuses me that the media bangs on about the road toll increasing, comparing this year's road deaths to those of previous years - even up to 20 years ago, but don't take into account not only the boom in population, but also the additional road user numbers.

More of the population are spending time on the road compared to the "old days" when less families had both parents working, kids walked to school or rode bikes, and people could afford to live closer to work - thus driving fewer km.

On a per-capita basis, and on a per-km spent on the road, our road toll numbers have dropped dramatically.

Be off with you and your facts and logical arguments...

[Sabantien]

I'm surprised anyone speeds in NSW, the number of speed cameras is phenomenal.

Personally, I prefer point to point speed cameras. People don't slam on their brakes to drop 20 below the speed limit, they just drive normally. (well, plenty of people still speed through them despite it being bloody obvious it's there)

[b0son]

I'm not sure what they hope to achieve on our statistically safest roads, other than sending us all to sleep and making things worse.

[FG50T]

Nothings more exciting than a cruise control race in a point to point zone and trying to overtake.

Also doesn't stop everyone from flying through the sections who know they are getting off in between the cameras.

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by b0son

I'm not sure what they hope to achieve on our statistically safest roads, other than sending us all to sleep and making things worse.

A big bank account.
They need the money to pay for the medical treatment of those who fell into a coma and crashed.

[CyberWasp]

Here are examples of why there are deaths on Australian roads.

Has nothing to do with speed limits or the amount of revenue raising cameras that are around the place.
It is just that a small percentage of the population are just complete morons who stuff it up for the vast majority of drivers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIJFQWHepSA

[Mowdit]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

Here are examples of why there are deaths on Australian roads.

Has nothing to do with speed limits or the amount of revenue raising cameras that are around the place.
It is just that a small percentage of the population are just complete morons who stuff it up for the vast majority of drivers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIJFQWHepSA

Would give this post by CyberWasp 10 thanks if I could
You see some things weekly !
Largely it is some seriously STUPID car "operators"
(yes, there may be more of them, but seriously, how did they get a licence ? )

[Sabantien]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

Here are examples of why there are deaths on Australian roads.

Has nothing to do with speed limits or the amount of revenue raising cameras that are around the place.
It is just that a small percentage of the population are just complete morons who stuff it up for the vast majority of drivers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIJFQWHepSA

To be fair, a good few of those were due to people speeding.

But absolutely, it's not the only factor. Inattention to driving due to mobile phones or whatever else people are doing is a big thing. While I don't agree that speeding isn't a problem, I think there's a whole bunch of other problems that are not enforced and should be.

I recognised one of those locations too. Lytton Road here in Brisbane. It was one of my pet hates, people cutting into the other lane when the road curves/on corners. I've had to slam on my brakes more than a few times for people like that, but as that person discovered, trucks don't brake so well.

[commodorenutt]

Originally Posted by Mowdit

(yes, there may be more of them, but seriously, how did they get a licence ? )

I have work colleagues who "sat" their licence in South Africa, and for a few hundred rand, didn't even need to pass. Come to Oz on a 457, go to the NSW RMS after 3 months with your paperwork, pay the fee, and bingo, gold licence.

There's numerous other countries with poor testing standards that assume older drivers who have held a licence there for a decade or more must be OK, but one Chinese girl said she'd only ever driven a few km a year in China before coming to Oz, and couldn't believe how easy the process was to convert over to a NSW licence. She was smart, and listened to advice from another immigrant friend who had been through the same, and took driving school lessons to get used to our local road rules & driving standards, but many people don't....

[EDManual]

So 100000 speeders were detected, says Scruby. Surely it wouldnt be hard to see if any of these exact cars crashed and burned? Oh, of course no one will do that statistic as none did...

[Blue Dog]

The NSW Government supposedly nets $700,000.00 per day in traffic violations.
They claim that all money raised is put back into road safety initiatives.
Yet the road toll keeps rising.........

[Express]

Originally Posted by EDManual

So 100000 speeders were detected, says Scruby. Surely it wouldnt be hard to see if any of these exact cars crashed and burned? Oh, of course no one will do that statistic as none did...

I hang my head in shame as I admit I’m one of those drivers that survived.

I was between 5 and 10 k’s over the limit while driving through a point to point camera zone on a recent trip up to Forster.

And it’s only since reading this article I’ve become aware that the cameras weren’t there for cars.

[theunfairadvant]

Originally Posted by bathurst-racer

When it comes to heavy vehicles no sane person could argue about these point to point cameras. Yes I do drive heavy vehicles nearly every day and I depise the cowboy element who ignore the posted speed limits and poor road conditions.
I do agree that point to point for cars without a generous tolerance would be revenue raising at its cynical worst.

Heavy vehicles used to have a sticker at the back saying 130km/h,
but this is going back more than 25 or 30 yrs ago now.

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by commodorenutt

I have work colleagues who "sat" their licence in South Africa, and for a few hundred rand, didn't even need to pass. Come to Oz on a 457, go to the NSW RMS after 3 months with your paperwork, pay the fee, and bingo, gold licence.

There's numerous other countries with poor testing standards that assume older drivers who have held a licence there for a decade or more must be OK, but one Chinese girl said she'd only ever driven a few km a year in China before coming to Oz, and couldn't believe how easy the process was to convert over to a NSW licence. She was smart, and listened to advice from another immigrant friend who had been through the same, and took driving school lessons to get used to our local road rules & driving standards, but many people don't....

I was talking to a local copper a while back about a notorious section of the Brand hwy.
You could easily drive along this stretch of road at 160. It's a well maintained bit of asphalt..
So why the fatal accidents?

According to her it's always tourists and usually is a head on after they attempt overtakes on blind corners and on double lines.
Accidents that never should happen.

[theunfairadvant]

I remember back then i was on M4 it was a 100 or 110km/h zone and after Wallgrove road it becomes 130km/h, i'm not sure what the limit is now as i don't drive down that road anymore cos i move closer towards the city.

Maybe some of you guys who live out that way can tell me.

Back then the leeway was 15km/h.
Say a 80km/h road and you do 95km/h they will not bother you
but if you were to do a 100 or more then they pull you over giving you a ticket
of your speed minus the leeway.

Now there is no leeway anymore just pure and blant revenue raising,
they can do a blitz everyday on every traffic lights with mobile phone usage
and they will catch at least more than 1,000 people daily who talk or text
while stop at the lights.

This has got to stop or else when green lights the
car doesn't move till a horn is sound.

[Express]

Our laws don't go far enough.

Red flag law in the United Kingdom[edit]

Main article: Locomotive Acts

In United Kingdom, the Locomotive Acts (also known as Red Flag Laws) was a policy requiring self-propelled vehicles to be led by a pedestrian waving a red flag or carrying a lantern[citation needed] to warn bystanders of the vehicle's approach.
Firstly, at least three persons shall be employed to drive or conduct such locomotive, and if more than two waggons or carriages he attached thereto, an additional person shall be employed, who shall take charge of such waggons or carriages;Secondly, one of such persons, while any locomotive is in motion, shall precede such locomotive on foot by not less than sixty yards, and shall carry a red flag constantly displayed, and shall warn the riders and drivers of horses of the approach of such locomotives, and shall signal the driver thereof when it shall be necessary to stop, and shall assist horses, and carriages drawn by horses, passing the same,
The Red Flag Law was repealed in 1896, by which time the internal combustion engine was well into its infancy.[1]

Red flag laws in the United States[edit]

In the United States, the state of Vermont passed a similar flurry of Red Flag Laws in 1894. The most infamous of the Red Flag Laws was enacted in Pennsylvania circa 1896, when legislators unanimously passed a bill through both houses of the state legislature, which would require all motorists piloting their "horseless carriages", upon chance encounters with cattle or livestock to (1) immediately stop the vehicle, (2) "immediately and as rapidly as possible ... disassemble the automobile", and (3) "conceal the various components out of sight, behind nearby bushes" until equestrian or livestock is sufficiently pacified.[1] The bill did not become law, as the Governor of Pennsylvania used an executive veto.

[aussie muscle]

NSW remains the only Australian state not using existing point-to-point speed camera technology to

...cash in on new speed revenue

[Sioso]

Why don't they ever release statistics on how many of these accidents involve white Toyota Camry's.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Sioso

Why don't they ever release statistics on how many of these accidents involve white Toyota Camry's.

Corollas are the same. Have you ever noticed half the Corollas on the road yank the wheel to the right (partly into the other lane) just before making a left turn. Or vice versa when turning right.
I mean lane sharing in a truck or bus is one thing, lane sharing in a Corolla is just silly. They don't feel that big from the inside. I have driven one once unfortunately.

There are more mobile (hidden) speed cameras right now than ever before in history, but the road toll went up? Wow it like as if there might be other things that affect the road toll and not just doing 3 over the limit.

[Top_Ghia]

Originally Posted by Sioso

Why don't they ever release statistics on how many of these accidents involve white Toyota Camry's.

You're right. Sadly a Camry wrote off my last Territory. That was after another Camry and a Corolla has had their turns in 3 separate accidents. None of them my fault.
Now I watch out for Camry's. There out there.
I have noticed Camry's don't seem to able to stay in a lane. They just seem to wander all over the road.

I hate to stereotype but only one of the crashes was an Asian lady who "didn't see you" and merged right into the side of our 2.2 tonne Territory.

The end came via a little old lady who failed to give way.
RIP Terri.

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by Express

Our laws don't go far enough.

I believe in Victoria it's still law for taxis to carry a bale of hay with them to feed the horses.