Ford: Yeah; GM and Chrysler: Nay

[trburnard]

From the Article Writer.com

Ford: Yeah; GM and Chrysler: Nay
November 26, 2008 by MattK
Filed under: 2008 L.A. Auto Show, Auto Shows/Displays, Ford
Upon returning to my area of the world following my attending the Los Angeles Auto Show press days, several people asked me what I thought the long term prognosis of the auto industry was, particularly for America’s three major producers.

It didn’t take me long to respond by saying that Chrysler as we know it is finished; General Motors probably should file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, overhaul management, and close down excess brands; but as for Ford, well, the one shining light among the Big Three just so happens to be the Blue Oval.

This answer surprised some people who thought that GM had the best chance for survival, but I quickly countered, “Not when you are virtual no-show in Los Angeles.” True, GM did bring the Volt to L.A., along with the car’s lead designer Bob Boniface, but no new cars were revealed and the same could be said for Chrysler. Meanwhile, Mazda unveiled the Mazda3; Kia its Soul; Nissan the Cube and 370Z; the list goes on.

Ford, on the other hand, had a huge, splashy introduction for the Ford Mustang, an event held the eve of the press days, before a crowd of more than one thousand rabid enthusiasts. At the show, several Mustangs were on display, clearly getting the right amount of attention for the iconic pony car.

But, the best Ford introduction wasn’t the Lincoln MKZ nor the Mercury Milan, rather the most popular of the midsize trio, the Ford Fusion. Specifically, the introduction of the Ford Fusion Hybrid, a model that clearly shows that Ford is heading down the right path.

Even beyond the Ford Fusion Hybrid (39 mpg city), Ford has decided to take a different approach to bad times than GM and Chrysler. Chrysler really has nothing up its sleeve that can change the car maker’s direction unless you consider one of its three EV concepts as something that will really be built. Ask most anyone who hasn’t drunk the Detroit Kool-Aid and they’ll mutter “vaporware” under their breaths as they walk past the Chrysler EV exhibit.

GM – poor, pitiful GM – has curiously pulled back – delaying the introduction of the game changing Chevrolet Cruze by two months and stating emphatically (along with Chrysler) that they would run out of cash before year end. Ford, on the other hand, is going forward with several smaller, much more fuel efficient cars, and says they have enough money to carry them through 2009. Clearly, GM’s fortunes continue to decline while Ford just may have what it takes to weather the current economic crisis.

Personally, my thoughts are that if GM and Chrysler were to file for bankruptcy protection, Ford’s best option would be to follow them into bankruptcy too. This would allow Ford to break their life sucking union contracts, shut down excess plants, reduce its workforce, and put itself in a better competitive position with Toyota and Honda.

Oh, by the way, Consumer Reports says that Ford is virtually equal with Honda and Toyota in overall quality, is well ahead of General Motors, and far out of sight of Chrysler. With smart and exciting models in the mix and lousy union agreements cast to the side, I believe Ford has what it takes to survive for the long haul.

Of course, ditching Mercury would help and injecting flesh blood into Lincoln would be smart, but at the very least Ford is in a much better position than either General Motors or Chrysler at this point in the game. This doesn’t mean that Ford has no room for improvement elsewhere – they do – but pushing forward instead of retreating is the best evidence that Ford will survive its second century.

[Jayden]

so did they all think the production volt look like a butt ugly POS. like in the photos.

I predicted they would wreck it when they said it was going into production.

[MethodX]

I thought the Volt looks ok.

A hell of a lot better than the Prius.

[Bossxr8]

GM is pinning its future on the Volt, but Bob Lutz has claimed that it may lose money or even just break even. How the hell can you pin your companies future on a car that can't make a profit? No wonder GM are stuffed.

His reasoning is that the Prius hasn't made Toyota money but has done wonders for its reputation. :

You can do that if you actually have money to fall back on, GM don't.

And they are still expecting it to go on sale in 2010 although all the experts are saying there is no way the battery technology required for it will be ready in time. Its unproven. GM are a mess.

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by MethodX

I thought the Volt looks ok.

A hell of a lot better than the Prius.

You're really reaching into the bottom of the barrel...

Anything looks better than the Prius.

But I agree, the Volt I thought is one of the best looking hybrids I've seen. I am not just talking concept either...actual production potential.

Pity they won't make a lot out of it...

[Gobes32]

What about the Honda hybrid? Looks just like the normal car. May be boring but at least it's not as bad as the Prius.

[chevypower]

All these brands have hybrids in "normal" cars too. The Prius is a fashion statement in it's design. It basically has "green" and "hybrid" stuck all over it's image, people wan't the fashion statement. GM needed one too. They have the sportier looking Volt, which I am sure will perform better than the Prius in performance and economy.

[SM1DY]

I can't imagine ever driving a hybrid, but if times do change, I can tell you right now, that I wouldn't be caught dead in a Prius. That thing has pretentious douche-bag written all over it.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by trburnard

From the Article Writer.com

......

Personally, my thoughts are that if GM and Chrysler were to file for bankruptcy protection, Ford’s best option would be to follow them into bankruptcy too. This would allow Ford to break their life sucking union contracts, shut down excess plants, reduce its workforce, and put itself in a better competitive position with Toyota and Honda.

.....

Smartest thing said in the article.

[Jayden]

Well I just mean they could have had a really cool looking hybrid car, but instead they are just sitting in prius' shadow. Now when ever anyone looks at a volt they will think prius wannabe. sure it looks better, but its still bottom of the barrel.

[phillyc]

Prius & Volt are two different concepts. Similar in parts but very different execution.

Prius is a petrol car which uses electrics as either assistance for additional power or stand alone for short distances at low speeds.

Volt is an electric car with a petrol motor for range extension. There is no complex gearbox to match the electric motors, the petrol engine and the wheels. The battery pack will offer reasonable range of 64km just on electric charge. The petrol motor turns a generator and this feeds power to the converter which in turn feeds the batteries and or the electric motors. This is a much more elegant solution and with comparable volumes a much more cost effective solution. It also then means electric 4wd can be developed fairly easily from here. Also with ABS, ESP etc.

[vztrt]

So the Volt is using the electric motor as a gen set?

[Perana]

The Honda Insight if i remember correctly was driven exclusively by an electric motor with the petrol engine being connected to a generator, but not the wheels, and it was utilised when needed, sounds similar to the Volt concept.

[vztrt]

I meant petrol motor, not electric motor. :

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by SM1DY

I can't imagine ever driving a hybrid, but if times do change, I can tell you right now, that I wouldn't be caught dead in a Prius. That thing has pretentious douche-bag written all over it.

Try arguing with Prius owners.
Man, they think its the solution to all the earths problems.

[Perana]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Try arguing with Prius owners.
Man, they think its the solution to all the earths problems.

Just ask them how NiMH batteries are made and disposed of, then inform them how many KG of NiMH batteries the Prius has.

[FGX-351]

Originally Posted by SM1DY

I can't imagine ever driving a hybrid, but if times do change, I can tell you right now, that I wouldn't be caught dead in a Prius. That thing has pretentious douche-bag written all over it.

I agree completely.

[Ohio XB]

Originally Posted by trburnard
From the Article Writer.com

......

Personally, my thoughts are that if GM and Chrysler were to file for bankruptcy protection, Ford’s best option would be to follow them into bankruptcy too. This would allow Ford to break their life sucking union contracts, shut down excess plants, reduce its workforce, and put itself in a better competitive position with Toyota and Honda.

Originally Posted by vztrt

Smartest thing said in the article.

No, its not.

Would you buy a car from a company in bankruptcy? Not likely.

Ford is hitting the market with new products, new technology, and fuel efficiency as good as or better than the competition. They've got more coming in a constant flow. You've no idea.

The Fusion hybrid has been getting up to 46 mpg in the city. This destroys the Toyota Camry hybrid.

Ford's costs will be in line with the foreign auto makers by the end of this contract, and they are already greatly reduced.

Don't believe the $73 per hour bullcrap. It's been outed now that this lie was started by adding in the cost of the 1 million retirees and factoring that into the present worker's compensation. For comparison, the foriegn auto makers here only have about 1,000 retirees, if that. When comparing apples to apples there is only about a $9 per hour difference, and that will be going to $0, even with the Big3's 1 million retirees.

My wife's total compensation adds up to $38.84 USD per hour, wages and benefits as well as taxes that the company is obligated to pay, with a $28 per hour working wage, . Ford lists another $12 per hour in some mysterious "other" catagory but I have no idea what those costs are, according to the graph in the Appendix turned into the Feds in Ford's Plan.

Alan Mulally is happy with the progress they have made with the Union and appreciates the working together attitude. He feels we will make it as is now, but of course since the Union is making even more consessions with GM and Chrysler he expects Ford to get the same advantages, and they will.


There is too much misinformation in the news and not nearly enough coverage of all the facts.


Steve

[BIGJB]

Forget what the Prius looks like. Yes its as ugly as sin but hey
you know exactly what it is when ya see it don't ya.
You think Toyota didn't know that when they built.
The 1st ones were crap as most 1st series cars cars are.
What makes me laugh though is that all of you guys bag the crap out of them.
Have you driven one??? And I don't mean around the block.
Drive one for a few thousand klms. They aren't a bad car.
Have all the power of most 1.5 ltr cars, they handle very very well.
The gearbox takes a little getting use to but ya can live with that.
They are quite roomy and comfortable. (and I'm a big boy...135kg)
Best of all even flogging it's a$$ off I can get 980klm out of
a 45ltr tank.
No I don't own one and never will cause it's not my thing
but I have done a fair few kays in one.
Oh and as for battery life I know of a number of them that have
big klms and the battery is still fine.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by 99GHIA

Forget what the Prius looks like. Yes its as ugly as sin but hey
you know exactly what it is when ya see it don't ya.
You think Toyota didn't know that when they built.
The 1st ones were crap as most 1st series cars cars are.
What makes me laugh though is that all of you guys bag the crap out of them.
Have you driven one??? And I don't mean around the block.
Drive one for a few thousand klms. They aren't a bad car.
Have all the power of most 1.5 ltr cars, they handle very very well.
The gearbox takes a little getting use to but ya can live with that.
They are quite roomy and comfortable. (and I'm a big boy...135kg)
Best of all even flogging it's a$$ off I can get 980klm out of
a 45ltr tank.
No I don't own one and never will cause it's not my thing
but I have done a fair few kays in one.
Oh and as for battery life I know of a number of them that have
big klms and the battery is still fine.

Handle well? Are you joking, not only is it a Toyota, which never handle well, but it also has skinny low rolling resistance tyres designed for economy, not grip. Handling is not its forte.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by 99GHIA

Forget what the Prius looks like. Yes its as ugly as sin but hey
you know exactly what it is when ya see it don't ya.
You think Toyota didn't know that when they built.
The 1st ones were crap as most 1st series cars cars are.
What makes me laugh though is that all of you guys bag the crap out of them.
Have you driven one??? And I don't mean around the block.
Drive one for a few thousand klms. They aren't a bad car.
Have all the power of most 1.5 ltr cars, they handle very very well.
The gearbox takes a little getting use to but ya can live with that.
They are quite roomy and comfortable. (and I'm a big boy...135kg)
Best of all even flogging it's a$$ off I can get 980klm out of
a 45ltr tank.
No I don't own one and never will cause it's not my thing
but I have done a fair few kays in one.
Oh and as for battery life I know of a number of them that have
big klms and the battery is still fine.

I havn't driven one but my fiancee (XRchic) drives them at work all the time. She says they are the biggest peice of garbage she's ever driven. She reckons they ARE gutless (but I guess it's what you're used to hey?), handle like boats, are as ugly as sin, and the interior is worse than an early 80's Datsun Bluebird. And let's not get started on what happens if a Prius gets in a bingle and the battery is damaged....

[BIGJB]

Hmmmm lets see. Gutless compared to wat??? As I said if you learnt how to read correctly is
all the power of most 1.5ltr motors. Which they do.
And they do handle well for wat they are. I never said they were a race car.
Don't compare them to a car that has been lowered or comes off the lot as
a performance car because thats comparing chalk with cheese.
As for the batteries hey if they get damaged in an accident who gives a toss.
If you don't have insurance your a !!
Oh and did I not state myself they are ugly as sin.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by 99GHIA

Hmmmm lets see. Gutless compared to wat??? As I said if you learnt how to read correctly is
all the power of most 1.5ltr motors. Which they do.
And they do handle well for wat they are. I never said they were a race car.
Don't compare them to a car that has been lowered or comes off the lot as
a performance car because thats comparing chalk with cheese.
As for the batteries hey if they get damaged in an accident who gives a toss.
If you don't have insurance your a !!
Oh and did I not state myself they are ugly as sin.

He would be talking about the safety issue on the batteries. As there is potential for electric shock or worse.

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by vztrt

He would be talking about the safety issue on the batteries. As there is potential for electric shock or worse.

Its Pinto all over again, however I don't see people running scared.

[Nikked]

So is GM still bringing out the camero? What about the deveopment of the 4cly aussie holden?

[Perana]

Originally Posted by vztrt

He would be talking about the safety issue on the batteries. As there is potential for electric shock or worse.

Not to mention the environmental issues with NiMH batteries!

Really if you want an environmental, economical car, your better off buying a small diesel.

[Quicksand]

Originally Posted by trburnard

Of course, ditching Mercury would help and injecting flesh blood into Lincoln would be smart

Stop the presses! I didn't realise Ford had developed a way to link Mechanics and Genetics!

No wonder they are so well placed in the market they are years ahead!

[Quicksand]

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

your better off buying a small diesel.

http://www.mellor.net/mellor/enews.n...toNews_435.pdf

and

http://www.mellor.net/mellor/enews.n...toNews_439.pdf

Each file is about 4-5mb so i recommend "Right Click Save Target As"

[Perana]

That may be the case at the moment, but that is just because Diesel is at a different point in its price cycle, eventually its price will equalize with Petrol again.

Yes LPG is still the way to go at the moment (I have one myself), but not everyone wants a Falcon sized car either, and environmentally a small diesel still puts out less emissions.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

That may be the case at the moment, but that is just because Diesel is at a different point in its price cycle, eventually its price will equalize with Petrol again.

Yes LPG is still the way to go at the moment (I have one myself), but not everyone wants a Falcon sized car either, and environmentally a small diesel still puts out less emissions.

The government need to drop the extra 17.5c/l excise they have on it (that the greenies made them leave on to deter diesel cars here) first.