Petrol for under $1 litre - NO MORE

Lightning Strike GT · 27-09-2005, 08:33 AM

Petrol prices

John H claims we will never pay less then $1 a litre in the future and has told us to get use to it

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MITCHAY · 27-09-2005, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AU XR8

John H claims we will never pay less then $1 a litre in the future and has told us to get use to it

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Yeah and a lot of people will be saying he can get used to being on the back bench come next election.

bindi · 27-09-2005, 08:48 AM

I heard on the news this morning that the ACCC will publish petrol prices and how much goes where, updated every day. Then we will be able to see where our money goes.

merlin · 27-09-2005, 08:54 AM

I don't mind these higher prices - there is alot less traffic on the roads and I am getting to work much faster.

If someone had said to me before all this happened would you pay $5 a week to halve traffic congestion I would have said yes - basically that is what has happened.

4.9 EF Futura · 27-09-2005, 09:16 AM

Perhaps we should never have paid less than $1 per litre??? We sure as hell wouldnt have run out of oil so damn quickly, would we?

For those who have been monitoring the situation, you would be aware that the refining premium has come off significantly over the last two weeks... but is still almost double the average (average something like $4/barrel, currently $9/barrel down from $19/barrel the other week). However, oil still remains at a very high price and this will keep petrol prices high. Although I am not aware of JH's magical powers to control the price of an international commodity, my fellow countrymen seem to be of a different opinion.

Commodity markets aside, I must once again admire the media's amazing ability to translate one form of english to another.

The quote from JH:

Quote:

"I think the whole community will have to accept, regrettably and unfortunately, petrol is going to be dearer than what it was, say, a year ago, and is likely to remain like that for some time,"

Was somehow transformed into this:

Quote:

Mr Howard said motorists would probably never again will see petrol at $1 a litre or less.

Which inevitably leads to comments like this:

Quote:

Yeah and a lot of people will be saying he can get used to being on the back bench come next election

If we all scrutinised the media like we do politicians I think we'd all be a damn sight better informed.

hrtrip · 27-09-2005, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

If we all scrutinised the media like we do politicians I think we'd all be a damn sight better informed.

and how true this is.

there was also talk of making pete costello force the ACCC to investigate price collusion as well. i just find it funny how petrol can one minute be 1.19 and then suddenly hike up to 1.35 within the space of a couple of minutes.

but then again im on gas so it doesnt really worry me that much, but im still afraid that the next car i buy will be petrol

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HRT R.I.P

HSE2 · 27-09-2005, 09:38 AM

There is a reality to this situation that is undeniable. I am not convinced some of what is being said is correct. Basically the oil companies haven't invested much in the way of improvement or finding new supply. That changes next year where they start actively looking for more reserves and build new refineries.

That part that is of concern to me is this get used to it part.

That’s ok. But petrol is a TAX on TAX on TAX on TAX. If people stop using their car they stop spending money in small business like road side shops. If that happens they have to lay people off and perhaps even shut down. They then need to be supported by the rest of Australia and on it goes. Drive away theft is on the march and pretty soon you will need stainless tanks to prevent your tank from being milked.

The rate that this has happened is the issue. Johnny said he can’t cut GST because he needs to get that money because people don’t have it to spend in the markets. He says he misses out in one hand so he has to get it with another. When you compare people buying food and petrol the man has a problem. One of those circumstances has a far greater impact. If people cut spending on consumables in order just to get to work the implications on the economy are far greater then “just get used to it”

the_scotsman · 27-09-2005, 02:04 PM

The ACCC has released the document explaining fuel pricing, I too heard it mentioned on the radio this morning.
It can be download from HERE from the ACCC website.
Its a 500k PDF document. Havent had a look at it myself yet.

jmc-007 · 27-09-2005, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSE2

That’s ok. But petrol is a TAX on TAX on TAX on TAX.

You have nailed it, So if you take away the tax it would be like 75 or 80cpl.

vino3o2 · 27-09-2005, 02:23 PM

Yeah.... petrol is expensive and it seems that it will keep costing more and more, the question is...how much do we have left?? 10 years? 20 years? It's going to run out one day.....very worrying

flappist · 27-09-2005, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

Yeah and a lot of people will be saying he can get used to being on the back bench come next election.

Howard will never be on the back bench, he would retire.
I would be very surprised if he ever lost an election. They are far too well informed with the mood of the people and if knew he was going to go splat I suspect he would retire for "health" or "family" reasons (like so may others).

But petrol over $1.00/litre is not end of the world. It is just a cost of living. There was a time, once, when a new Falcon was less than $1000 and most could not afford to buy one.

4.9 EF Futura · 27-09-2005, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vino3o2

Yeah.... petrol is expensive and it seems that it will keep costing more and more, the question is...how much do we have left?? 10 years? 20 years? It's going to run out one day.....very worrying

We'd almost be better off if it just ran out one day. Gone, nothing left. What will happen is that we will be unable to pump as much as we are at the moment. Production will slowly start to fall. Considering supply is only just meeting demand at the moment, we have a problem. As soon as supply is unable to meet demand, prices will skyrocket as oil will go to the highest bidder. $200 a barrel of oil? $300?

Desperate is as desperate does. Im betting there are plenty of countries (USA, China, India) willing and able to go to war for the last of it. Will be interesting to say the least.

vino3o2 · 27-09-2005, 02:39 PM

It's scary stuff...I read in some news articles that the U.S have capped off thier own oil wells to keep for themselves!! Thier theory is to use all the worlds oil resources..and when this runs out...to hell with everyone else we've got our own oil now!!! what the!!

b2tf · 27-09-2005, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

But petrol over $1.00/litre is not end of the world. It is just a cost of living. There was a time, once, when a new Falcon was less than $1000 and most could not afford to buy one.

Exactly.

OzJavelin · 27-09-2005, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

We'd almost be better off if it just ran out one day. Gone, nothing left. What will happen is that we will be unable to pump as much as we are at the moment. Production will slowly start to fall. Considering supply is only just meeting demand at the moment, we have a problem. As soon as supply is unable to meet demand, prices will skyrocket as oil will go to the highest bidder. $200 a barrel of oil? $300?

Desperate is as desperate does. Im betting there are plenty of countries (USA, China, India) willing and able to go to war for the last of it. Will be interesting to say the least.

Yes .. scary. I don't have kids, but I'd be a bit worried about bringing them up in a world on the brink of a REAL oil crisis. I think this has been a good "shock" to us all. Time to think about how we use fuel, how to save it, what the alternatives are. It's not just a case of alternatives, but probably a lot of social change ... things like re-engineering cities, job market, etc.

I'd be happy for fuel to stay about 1$/litre, but not at the current $1.40+/L .. about $1.20/L "seems" manageable (I'm currently using about 130L/week!!). We can't give petrol away or we'll just waste it like we've been doing (like water!). We can't let the Yanks (and us) build bigger and bigger SUVs (which make my Dodge Phoenix look like a Mazda 323) to drive a single person to work everyday.

Hmmm ... all very interesting.

TuMor · 27-09-2005, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmc-007

You have nailed it, So if you take away the tax it would be like 75 or 80cpl.

The government would still find a way to get that money back off you.

4.9 EF Futura · 27-09-2005, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmc-007

You have nailed it, So if you take away the tax it would be like 75 or 80cpl.

Great. So we're willing to chew through the world's most precious resource in half the time just so you can save a few bucks driving your gas guzzler around?

That's a long term solution, isnt it

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parawolf · 27-09-2005, 05:30 PM

Personally i'm happy for the government not to reduce taxation on petrol.

HOWEVER those people that are in jobs that require you to have a car for work should be given an allowance by the employer to pay for the petrol (or get given a fuel card which incorporates private usage at a rate of perhaps $80 inc gst a month).

Those that require a car to get to work (no public transport) should be given monthly/fortnightly whatever concessionals (or a concessional card) from Centerlink which the federal and state government pay for until regular and reliable public transport is generated so that you can get to work in a timely fashion. Having to transfer over three types of vehicle/routes should be deemed 'acceptable', eg bus to train station, train station and then tram to nearby.

As the state and federal governments would both be losing revenue - they would then also get centerlink collecting information on where people live and where they work therefore giving them some planning as to what areas need more public transport.

It's a bit harsh - but if there is say only 20 years of petrol left - then may as well start planning now...

**Falcon Coupe** · 27-09-2005, 05:33 PM

4.9 EF Futura is John Howard under alias, who else thinks petrol doubling in price in 2 years is good ? does that mean $2.80 a litre in 2007 will be ok as well ?

4.9 EF Futura · 27-09-2005, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

4.9 EF Futura is John Howard under alias

Lol. Let's not say anything we cant take back....

So, what about $10/L in 2020? $20/L in 2021? As the oil supply dries up this is what you can expect. There's not a thing you, me, or JH can do about it. Yeah, that 38c/L excise will make a huge difference at $5/L wont it? What ever will you complain about then? Insist the PM of the day ban 4 cylinders to make fuel cheaper for V8 falcons?

The more it costs, the less we buy, the longer it lasts. Would you rather pay 50c/L for 2 years, use 3 times as much and deplete oil 3 times as quick? Or would you prefer to pay $1.50/L and have it last 3 times as long? Remembering there is more to oil than our cars - plastics, fertilizers, medication etc etc

**Falcon Coupe** · 27-09-2005, 05:54 PM

I believe the price hike is due more to OPEC and oil companys being greedy rather than supply running out, call me synical, but that's what i think, and the governments crocodile tears don't go over well with me, John Howard "feels our pain"...yeah right, he knows the pain as well as a man knows what it's like to give birth.

VertexZ · 27-09-2005, 06:00 PM

one should only blame the government for things that they actually have control over. People who blame the government for **everything** are dillusional.

The federal government cant impact the price of crude - that is determined by the world market price, which is heavily influenced by the collusion of OPEC. THe only control the government has over the price of petrol is in the taxation of it, which currently amounts to about 50cpl. Yes, expensive, but it has been like this for a very long time!

The bottom line is that if the government were to reduce the excise, then they would have to find money from somewhere else to maintian a static amount of revenue. You can have petrol for 80cpl, but then your income tax will be higher. Basically, get used to it and blame economics, not the government.
As stated, there is about 20-25 years worth of oil reserves at current best estimate. The less oil there is on the planet, the more its going to cost. Basic economics there. So now is the time to start acting on alternative fuels.
The big factor is China and India - as their massive populations grow in wealth through industrialisation, so will the amount of disposable income which can and will be spent on cars!
The situation is only going to get worse over time, so get used to it - its a fact of life!

I'm sure if there are people here old enough to remeber, todays situation would probably be very similar to what the world went through in the late 70's early 80's!

**Falcon Coupe** · 27-09-2005, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VertexZ

THe only control the government has over the price of petrol is in the taxation of it, which currently amounts to about 50cpl. Yes, expensive, but it has been like this for a very long time!

Wrong, GST came in a few years ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VertexZ

The bottom line is that if the government were to reduce the excise, then they would have to find money from somewhere else to maintian a static amount of revenue.

What about GST ? that can and should be removed, when i voted for the GST i was under the impression all other taxes would be removed, quite naieve ehh....

MrQuan · 27-09-2005, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

There was a time, once, when a new Falcon was less than $1000 and most could not afford to buy one.

But back then peoples salary was waaayyyyy lower (in dollar terms), however a dollar was worth waaaaaayyyyyy more! So it all balanced out in the end. Over time prices and saraly have all rised due to inflation.

Petrol prices have risen about 130% quickly over recent time, but has everyone's salary risen? No. This means that I'm spending more and more on petrol, but I'm not getting any extra income - so I'm out of pocket. I think the price of petrol has risen too fast for inflation to catch up.

I don't think your arguement really applies to this situation.

Marlin_Girl · 27-09-2005, 06:45 PM

i'm so getting a bike and a house in town..................

HSE2 · 27-09-2005, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmc-007

You have nailed it, So if you take away the tax it would be like 75 or 80cpl.

That’s not exactly what I was getting at. Everything you buy has to increase because of transport. It’s the cost of living that gets hit each time. You pay for it at the bowser then at the corner store then again and so on. It’s the speed at which this has happened that is the problem. Our wages haven't gone up accordingly.

When I quote on a job I have to include the increase in transport but families don't have the extra money coming in. If they want the work done they have to find the money else where or go without. If they go without I need to find more work.

HSE2 · 27-09-2005, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

The more it costs, the less we buy, the longer it lasts. Would you rather pay 50c/L for 2 years, use 3 times as much and deplete oil 3 times as quick? Or would you prefer to pay $1.50/L and have it last 3 times as long? Remembering there is more to oil than our cars - plastics, fertilizers, medication etc etc

Well that is certainly one way of looking at it. Problem is it is wrong.

The more it costs the less we have out of our budgets to spend on other things. The cost of everything increases and as it does so to will unemployment.

For sure the nice weekend trips will be the first to go, then the take away food, clothes movies, DVD rentals and so on. The quality of living will drop off because people need transport. If you are in remote places or places where public transport doesn't have a strong infrastructure you have very little choice. It’s essential. What this will do is hasten the development of alternate fuels. If OPEC prices themselves out of the market the auto industry will move on to plan b if only for the sake of the global economy.

As it is this has probably served as a wake up call to fast track alternate energy. By the time it is close to running out they may not be able to give it away as no one will be relying on it. This is an unsustainable situation.

parawolf · 27-09-2005, 07:35 PM

Just to be self centered - did anyone read my response - i thought it was a little contraversal and would have gathered a little attention... or is it actually possible and people are scared that it could work?

MrQuan · 27-09-2005, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parawolf

Just to be self centered - did anyone read my response - i thought it was a little contraversal and would have gathered a little attention... or is it actually possible and people are scared that it could work?

I think it's a good idea. It would give the public transport some attention from the government, that's for sure! They'd want to get everyone off the fuel cards ASAP :P!

Black XR6 · 27-09-2005, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parawolf

Just to be self centered - did anyone read my response - i thought it was a little contraversal and would have gathered a little attention... or is it actually possible and people are scared that it could work?

I read the first part and glossed over the rest. Wont ever happen.