E.t.s

snappy · 22-11-2009, 12:11 AM

The Extra Tax Scheme ,
What do we actually know about it . So far i know that the goverment is pushing hard for it to be in by copenhagen .
We also know that the money from it will go to the UN 0.7% of our gdp.
But they have not released any info on it,it actually seems they are keeping it quiet on purpose
Some question is what it going to cost us tax payers . What is this billions of dollars going to be spent on . Anything basically

Basically im just after info anyone know anything concrete about it.

Mods i know this is a political thread , so if it not ok i understand (sorry).
If it ok boys and girls keep it clean in hope to keep open

Work Horse · 22-11-2009, 10:06 AM

I found this with google in .38 seconds.
http://www.climatechange.gov.au/publ...reenpaper.aspx
It's over 500 pages long, and calls for submissions from any interested party. It was released over a year ago.

Happy reading :evil3:

Ohio XB · 22-11-2009, 03:20 PM

I heard this on the radio two days ago. Take it with a grain of salt because I can not verify the validity of the info.

The personality on the radio stated that in the UK they were looking at creating "Personal Carbon Credits" where each citizen would be permitted to purchase only a certain amount of goods that contribute carbon dioxide to "Climate Change." The way it would work is that you get a card that you use to purchase things like petrol and other CO2 creating goods until your credits on the card are used up.

So what do you think happens after that? You are done? No. You get locked up if you buy/use more? No. You can BUY more credits.

Ok, so how does this reduce emissions? It doesn't, but money goes into someone's pocket.

Like I said, I can verify none of that.

Steve

Green X · 22-11-2009, 05:25 PM

At least one Federal West Australian senator echoes what most people already believe and that's the Government's ETS is a con.

"Senator Cormann argues that the Rudd Government's ETS is a con. It will do nothing to reduce global emissions while it will push up the price of everything, cost jobs, put pressure on our economy and put our energy security at risk."

**Falcon Coupe** · 22-11-2009, 07:21 PM

Some info and a petition:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMe5dOgbu40

http://www.barnabyjoyce.com.au/Issue...9/Default.aspx

rodderz · 22-11-2009, 09:59 PM

Building a house as a good example will go up a fair bit, as all the businesses involved in manufacturing various products will be spending $$ to comply with this ETS crap, which then gets passed on to the customer. By the time the builder puts his cut on, and all the materials are put into the house, the cost of building will be a pretty hefty rise compared to what it is now.

snappy · 22-11-2009, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Work Horse

I found this with google in .38 seconds.
http://www.climatechange.gov.au/publ...reenpaper.aspx
It's over 500 pages long, and calls for submissions from any interested party. It was released over a year ago.

Happy reading :evil3:

Well ive made a start on it , But still yet to have found anything relevent to info i think we need.
Well as we know anything carbon related will go up , which is basically everything but it seems no one is prepared to give any figures or predictions.
As rodderz has said building a house will increase by quite alot which considering this scheme every single nail,screw or really any materials will warrant a price rise.
But are we talking 0.1 % or 50% i just dont think the goverment is being transperant enough with what the a rushing to implement.

Work Horse · 23-11-2009, 08:44 AM

It's not gone through parliament yet snappy84. It's anyone's guess what will be in or out in a lot of cases.

We know big "polluters" will be hit with the biggest taxes and then get the biggest concessions. So they have no reason to put up prices.

I'm sure no one will take advantage of the confusion.....

**Polyal** · 26-11-2009, 10:35 PM

I just saw a short news break, what the heck happened to the Liberals, apparently 10 members have quit.

csv8 · 26-11-2009, 10:55 PM

ETS same as Brock Polariser.
The CSIRO will punish one of its scientists after he published a paper on climate change that criticised the government's emissions trading scheme. It has accused Dr Clive Spash of breaching protocol by releasing the paper before it was vetted by the peak science body. "These breaches of fundamen...

rodderz · 26-11-2009, 11:01 PM

Also a bit more said by Joyce, that the phones have been running hot at parliament house with public ringing to express their objections to signing the ETS deal
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574...-29277,00.html

naddis01 · 26-11-2009, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Work Horse

It's not gone through parliament yet snappy84. It's anyone's guess what will be in or out in a lot of cases.

We know big "polluters" will be hit with the biggest taxes and then get the biggest concessions. So they have no reason to put up prices.

It will make it through, but it wont be implemented until 2011 I beleive.

The big polluters will get some consessions towards their obligations, however they will not cover it all. Basically it is a discount, so they will put their prices up.

Basically it seems everything will go up. Agriculture for example, even though it has been excluded directly, will be impacted indirectly. Inputs such as fertiliser, fuel, electricity etc will all impact on agriculture. Farmers will probably not get anything else for their produce forcing more to go out of the business, but Coles and Woolies will put their prices up blaming the CPRS.

naddis01 · 26-11-2009, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

I just saw a short news break, what the heck happened to the Liberals, apparently 10 members have quit.

Quick story mentioning it.

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574...-29277,00.html

SB076 · 27-11-2009, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naddis01

It will make it through, but it wont be implemented until 2011 I beleive.

The big polluters will get some consessions towards their obligations, however they will not cover it all. Basically it is a discount, so they will put their prices up.

Basically it seems everything will go up. Agriculture for example, even though it has been excluded directly, will be impacted indirectly. Inputs such as fertiliser, fuel, electricity etc will all impact on agriculture. Farmers will probably not get anything else for their produce forcing more to go out of the business, but Coles and Woolies will put their prices up blaming the CPRS.

I agree, it will simply cost jobs and increase the profit margins of big business.

**Polyal** · 27-11-2009, 10:41 AM

Its a complete joke. I remember reading that in order to get concessions or credit that companies can buy trees to plant in povo countries and thus get credit at a cheaper rate than either paying or doing something here.

The large polluters are getting concessions but should they just work towards bettering their processes?

AH!

csv8 · 27-11-2009, 08:50 PM

Did you notice Joe Hockey drives a Tezza on tonights news ?

Romulus · 27-11-2009, 11:02 PM

Yes, a TS from memory. Would have laughed hard if it was a TTG!

Ducati888 · 27-11-2009, 11:08 PM

Seems to me that Rudd was voted in on the strength of the ETS and workchoices. Put your hand up if you are guilty....

naddis01 · 28-11-2009, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

Its a complete joke. I remember reading that in order to get concessions or credit that companies can buy trees to plant in povo countries and thus get credit at a cheaper rate than either paying or doing something here.

The large polluters are getting concessions but should they just work towards bettering their processes?

AH!

I dont think it is just povo countries. They can do it here as well taking away productive country from food production.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducati888

Seems to me that Rudd was voted in on the strength of the ETS and workchoices. Put your hand up if you are guilty....

They got voted in on Work Choices. I dont think many people really had much idea on the ETS at that stage, but I feel that it is starting to hit home how much it will impact on everyone.

**ebxr8240** · 28-11-2009, 12:35 PM

I agree something should be done but why go about it this way ??

Why give it back to them ?? If the $$ was to subsidise solar panels on our homes so
energy dropped below 50% on domestic homes I can see the point..

All these tax's over the years including GST etc and our schools, hospitals and roads are the same!!!

onfire · 29-11-2009, 01:05 PM

I think the facebook group that started the day after Rudd took control, remains true, it's titled " Dont blame me, I voted Liberal. "

cupic · 29-11-2009, 02:29 PM

ETS=FOS
When the US agrees to ETS it means that its a Tax slug that will reaps trillions of dollars worldwide.IMHO global warming is Bu*@@@ITE.as IMHO its a natural occuring throughout the eons of time

cheers

**Elks** · 29-11-2009, 02:39 PM

It concerns me that if you are against the ETS, you are branded a climate change sceptic.

These are two seperate matters.

1. Human induced climate change seems to be widely agreed upon and with the intruduction of idustrialization and the destruction of forests the balance has shifted. This makes sense to most people. And for the record I believe that this is real.

2. The ETS is a tax on emmisions. The Canberra economists figure that if we increase the costs demand will drop. Very basic economics. But here's the problem. Does anyone really think that increasing the cost of running an A/C on a 30 or 40 dergee day from $1.00 and hour to $1.10 an hour will make you switch it off. Thats as stupid as the acopops tax. The concept of an extra $0.30 a bottle is going to stop someone buying a Jack and Coke in a nightclub where they are already $9.00!!!!... I digress.

So the deal gets worse as the major emmitors are being subsidised so they dont need to change. Add to that we gleefully export billions of tonnes of coal to china so they can burn it without any real emmisions standards and we are kidding ourselves.

If you want lower emmisions, set lower emmission standards and make people comply. Yes somethings will change but industry is createive and will find a way. Remember (you oldies) when the introduction of unleaded fuel was the end of the performance car?

All I can see coming of the ETS is a bunch of suits in collins street getting very rich trading carbon credit derivatives. The ETS is a scam, and we are all going to pay for it.

Who voted for these numbskulls..

Bucknaked · 29-11-2009, 02:47 PM

Cool. Another thread on the same topic.

AndrewR_AUII · 29-11-2009, 03:31 PM

Simple..we implement ETS, China or similar countries don't
Swings economics further to shifting activities off shore.

End result: Jobs lost to countries that place even less emphasis on environmental impact than we do...

Hillbilly F Truck · 29-11-2009, 03:48 PM

Yep. We'll all be broke - rego, fuel etc, for our beloved vehicles will be through the roof if not outlawed to run/operate. Driving little cheap cars made in Korea or China. Then the rich Chinese and other third worlders will move in to retire here.

BA-Fan · 29-11-2009, 04:38 PM

You will all be delighted to know that we (the tax payers) will all have to foot the bill for these extra carbon credits companies buy.

BA-Fan · 29-11-2009, 04:40 PM

Also in perspective our emissions are miniscule in this country compared to others. Wasn't it compared to only 1km in length and a human hair wide?

mickyyyy · 29-11-2009, 08:05 PM

It's all crap and all there trying to do is get extra money out of us and have more control over ourselves and money.

Do not fall for the trick that climate change is from humans, its been proven wrong!!!

rodderz · 30-11-2009, 12:41 AM

Article on roughly how much it will cost us- http://www.news.com.au/business/mone...017313,00.html

But they say by the time it is implemented will be a lot more