Insurance/traffic accident question

[scottc]

Hey everyone, just wanted to get some opinions on this.

I was driving down the road in my ute, and the traffic ahead was turning right, so a couple of cars moved into the left lane to go around and then merge back to the left, as you do.
I went around, and then was indicating to merge left, when a woman from behind tried to come up my inside, and her mirror was knocked off by the back corner of the tray. (no damage to the tray)

6 odd weeks later, I get a demand from the insurance company, saying that I caused the accident, and I have to pay for the $1000 mirror.

I felt that the accident was not caused by me, but by the other driver.
One thing that annoyed me was that the other drivers insurance company did not contact me, or ask for my version of events.

Any thoughts on this one?

Cheers,
Scott.

[Fed]

So you were on the footpath?

[scottc]

No, it is a 2 lane road, with parked cars 100m further up. Does that make sense?

[Godzilla73]

Think you’ve written it up wrong, you moved left to go around cars waiting to turn right then moved back into the right lane? Or as mentioned if you went left again you were on the footpath... Do you have insurance? Handball it to them.

[.:4:.]

I've been the claimer in a similar incident but I was 3/4 up on the tray back that can opened me when the other driver didn't indicate. I was deemed right of way. Because you and the other vehicle were moving and it wasn't a rear ender it may be a bit of an argument even if the other driver sped up to close the gap you were merging into. It's up to the insurance companies to argue it out to place blame I guess. My experience is insurance companies don't make direct contact only solicitors letters. I've never been at fault but it's still unsettling

[chrisandsharon]

I’m with Godzilla - handball it to your insurance mob

[scottc]

My mistake, I meant merge back to the right.

I have insurance, but with $1000 excess, doesn't make sense to go through insurance.

Wonder why the insurance company wouldn't contact me?

Originally Posted by scottc

I was driving down the road in my ute, and the traffic ahead was turning right, so a couple of cars moved into the left lane to go around and then merge back to the left right?, as you do.
I went around, and then was indicating to merge left right, when a woman from behind tried to come up my inside, and her mirror was knocked off by the back corner of the tray.

As per others, what you've written doesn't make sense unless you meant to say what I edited above.

If that's the case, I actually think that you're in the wrong. If her mirror was in line with the back corner of your tray then her bonnet was even further ahead so the lane was not clear for you to merge into.
You're supposed to indicate... check it's clear... merge. Did you do the ol' indiciate-as-i'm-merging-without-having-a-decent-look-for-traffic? It sounds like you did because if you'd indicated and waited any decent length of time afterwards, the other driver would have had time to brake a smidge and let you in. so it sounds to me like you've quickly jumped back into the right hand lane without checking as you'd presumed noone could have come up into that lane in the time it took you to go around.

However... drivers that race up to close gaps really **** me off. Particularly when it's two lanes about to merge into one. If I'm in the left lane and someone is way back in the right but speeding up to try and pass me before it merges, we both know damn well that they're not going fast enough to get clear infront before the merge arrives, which will result in me having no road left to drive on as we're now side-by-side at the merge point.
So the only option for the driver in the left lane is to merge before it becomes necessary and practically cut off a speeding driver who almost always then gets the ****s. Can't win!

[scottc]

Hi Leesa, yes you are correct, I merged back right, as corrected above.

No I did not do the old indicate as i'm merging, I never do that, and I rarely move into a left lane where cars are, unless it's safe to do so.
It was clear that all the traffic was flowing and merging, but I felt the car behind me was just not happy with me merging in front of them.

[wodahs]

the way I see it is
you except being in the wrong and pay the 1000 for the mirror (or ask for a re quote/negotiate price)
or
you get your insurance involved and gamble your 1000 that they deem you to be right so you don't pay or loss you 1000 if they don't deem you right

[mac_man_luke]

I had a similar incident recently

When i got the demand letter i just replied with my detailed side of the story and thats the last i heard of it. Much easier if you dont have damage as well as you have no motivation with needing your car fixed etc.

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by scottc

Hi Leesa, yes you are correct, I merged back right, as corrected above.

No I did not do the old indicate as i'm merging, I never do that, and I rarely move into a left lane where cars are, unless it's safe to do so.
It was clear that all the traffic was flowing and merging, but I felt the car behind me was just not happy with me merging in front of them.

I think you might be mistaken and your indicator was on, in addition your indicator had never shone brighter as it did that particular day...if you get my drift.

[sr71]

It seems the other driver could be in the wrong. But the rules might go against you.
5 seconds of indicator required before changing lanes. (what I was told at a driver education course this year. I always thought it was 3sec, as tapping the indicator stalk gives a 3 second signal)
Lane change requires giving way to cars on your right.

Regarding insurance. If you end up being at fault, even with a protected 'no claim bonus', Compulsory Third Party Insurance (CPT Greenslip in NSW) will be higher for the next 3 years.(they always ask " have you had an at-fault claim in the last 3 years"). So handing over the $1000 excess could end up amounting to $1200-1500 (after paying a bit extra on CPT).
If, after legal advice, it looks to be going against you. Declare that you will settle (pay the other driver) without Insurance involvement. Then you technically haven't had an 'at fault claim'.

Good luck.

[yearby]

Well, I think your totally in the right, you don't have to pay for the other vehicle damage.
From what I recall, if the other vehicle is behind your front bumper, they have to give way regardless of if you indicated or not.

[LTDHO]

If I have interpreted your description correctly, you are not responsible or at least not entirely.

However you don't know what the other party told their insurer.

Request their insureds incident description from the insurer. Then you can discuss who is at fault with them. It is worth you providing your factual description also.

[Fed]

I'd ignore the letter of demand.

[CyberWasp]

Isn't it a standard practice for car insurance companies to claim damages on behalf of their client?
Even if the client is in the wrong and the other persons pays, they have saved money.

[lra]

Originally Posted by sr71

5 seconds of indicator required before changing lanes. (what I was told at a driver education course this year.) Lane change requires giving way to cars on your right.

Correct. I told this to my grandson when he got his Ls. It is one of those rules that you 'just know' when driving a heavy vehicle.
But it is not in the NSW road rules book that learner drivers use.
With a bit digging, I eventually found it somewhere in the Motor Vehicle Act or a similar obscure reference that I have now forgotten.
It is a crime that it is not widely advised to the general public.

[Fed]

Never heard of a 3 second or a 5 second rule.
It used to be blinker a 100 ft before a corner (30 M?) which I'd take as 30 M before changing lanes as well.

Never heard of "Lane change requires giving way to cars on your right" but not your left assuming it means cars in the lane to the right of you.
If you're changing lanes you have to give way to anyone in the lane you're moving into.

The witch has tried to out maneuver you but you left the gate open, put it down to a racing incident with no further action but if you ever hear from her insurance again totally deny any fault at all. You were already half way across the lane when she decided to turn one lane into two lanes, that's right isn't it?

Point to remember, this is changing lanes not merging.

[Work Horse]

I'm not sure what State you are in or what lines were marked on the road.

I've just been through this in Victoria; I believed I was in the right. I merged left to right in stop start traffic; the car behind me wanted to block the car behind them and got too close to me. The hinge on the back corner of my trailer opened up their front guard like a can opener.

My insurance company deemed me at fault quoting the following road law;

http://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/...7208/s148.html

148 Giving way when moving from one marked lane or line of traffic to another marked lane or line of traffic

(1) A driver who is moving from one marked lane (whether or not the lane is ending) to another marked lane must give way to any vehicle travelling in the same direction as the driver in the marked lane to which the driver is moving.

In my instance there were lines on the road, so it was deemed my fault.

If no lines are marked on the road then road rule 149 covers it and the car in front when merging has right of way.

My insurance company decided to put the claim on my trailer policy so the excess was only $50, not worth me arguing.

[commodorenutt]

If she was tailing you in the traffic prior, and went around the obstruction (turning cars) behind you, then it could be argued she tried to speed up as you were merging, making it her fault - now here's the kicker, and what you need to say - the lane was clear when you checked the mirror, you put your blinker on, head check, still clear, and as you moved over she sped up to close the gap and hit the corner of your tray.

If that's the honest truth, then that's what I'd be writing back to the insurance company - making particular emphasis on the point that she was previously behind you for a period of time, and followed you around the obstruction as well - it's her impatience that caused her to hit you.

Do NOT say you hit her - they will take that as an admission of guilt.

But also be aware that if she has a dashcam, your story will need to match the footage, or they'll mark your claim as dishonest.

[Fed]

But in scottc's case both drivers moved from the left lane to the right lane because at some point the witch had to be directly behind scott in the left lane due to cars turning right.
I see impatient people try it all the time, I shut the gate & don't even bother with a blinker because I make it impossible for someone to get up the side of me. I think most people would do the same.

[Fed]

We cross posted commodorenut, your advice is 100% but I'd still not write back at this stage, I'd ignore them & keep my powder dry until later if they bother continuing on with it.

[Tassie f100]

If there is doubt over who was right the the other parties company will demand payment from the you.This is almost normal procedure and really is just bluff.If you admit fault they will demand payment,if you deny fault it most likely will not be pursued any further

[NTF6]

Originally Posted by Fed

Never heard of a 3 second or a 5 second rule.
It used to be blinker a 100 ft before a corner (30 M?) which I'd take as 30 M before changing lanes as well.

Never heard of "Lane change requires giving way to cars on your right" but not your left assuming it means cars in the lane to the right of you.
If you're changing lanes you have to give way to anyone in the lane you're moving into. Regardless of whether they are partially in front or behind your car.

The witch has tried to out maneuver you but you left the gate open, put it down to a racing incident with no further action but if you ever hear from her insurance again totally deny any fault at all. You were already half way across the lane when she decided to turn one lane into two lanes, that's right isn't it?

Point to remember, this is changing lanes not merging.

^^^ this bloke is correct!
ADR design rules has lane change indicators giving 4 blinks of the indicator which is roughly 4-5 seconds, travelling at 60kph this gives a distance of over 66 metres BUT most people lane change after only a few blinks or 2-3 seconds into the maneuver but this still gives around 32-34 metres of lane change warning.

[NTF6]

Originally Posted by scottc

Hey everyone, just wanted to get some opinions on this.

I was driving down the road in my ute, and the traffic ahead was turning right, so a couple of cars moved into the left lane to go around and then merge back to the left, as you do.
I went around, and then was indicating to merge left, when a woman from behind tried to come up my inside, and her mirror was knocked off by the back corner of the tray. (no damage to the tray)

6 odd weeks later, I get a demand from the insurance company, saying that I caused the accident, and I have to pay for the $1000 mirror.

I felt that the accident was not caused by me, but by the other driver.
One thing that annoyed me was that the other drivers insurance company did not contact me, or ask for my version of events.

Any thoughts on this one?

Cheers,
Scott.

Quick question Scott.
If she was behind you and she had to follow you around the cars waiting to turn right, how did she manage to get up the inside of you?
Did you delay lane changing back to the right hand lane and she didn't because if you had lane changed as soon as you had cleared the cars waiting to turn right she would've still been in the left lane clearing those cars and she wouldn't have been able to come up the inside. So, if you did delay moving back into the right hand lane and she didn't then I think you have lane changed into her...sorry.

[hawke]

How did the other insurance company find you?

[Sioso]

Do you still have the envelope the letter came in?
Re-seal and write - RTS - Not at this Address.
Otherwise wait for the next letter, don't open it and do the above.

Originally Posted by NTF6

^^^ this bloke is correct!

Technically I think it depends on whether the marge is on marked or unmarked lanes.
If it's two lanes merging into one marked lane, even if you're ahead you can't cut infront, you have to give way as the lane is deemd not clear to merge.
It it merges on unmarked lanes, whoever is infront has right of way.

That's for QLD at least.

https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/saf...les/road/lanes

[NTF6]

Originally Posted by leesa

Technically I think it depends on whether the marge is on marked or unmarked lanes.
If it's two lanes merging into one marked lane, even if you're ahead you can't cut infront, you have to give way as the lane is deemd not clear to merge.
It it merges on unmarked lanes, whoever is infront has right of way.

That's for QLD at least.

https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/saf...les/road/lanes

You are correct but this was lane changing not merging.

On merging, if the broken marked line continues all the way to the very end of the lane that merges then the lane that wishes to merge to the right has to give way to any traffic in the right hand lane, IF the broken marked line stops before the lane runs out then the vehicle in front has right of way.