QPoliceremain tight-lipped on tunnel speed cameras rake in $13k a day

[csv8]

Police remain tight-lipped on location of lucrative tunnel speed cams that rake in $13,000 in fines every day

by: Robyn Ironside
From: The Courier-Mail
March 20, 2013 12:00AM


POLICE have refused to reveal the exact location of Clem7 and Brisbane Airportlink fixed speed cameras that are snapping up a storm.

The tunnels might not be generating much cash for operators, but the motorists who are using the tollways are spending more than $13,000 a day on speeding tickets.

Six fixed speed cameras are rotated around 10 locations in Airportlink and there are eight in the Clem7, but their exact locations have never been revealed, unlike roadside fixed speed cameras.

Figures provided by the Queensland Police Service show in the four months from October 2012, 8291 tickets were issued to motorists in the Clem7 and Brisbane Airportlink tunnels.

Despite having less traffic, more motorists copped fines in the Clem7 (4373) than Airportlink (3918), which has speed limit signs every 60m.

However the highest speed of 191km/h - or 111km/h over the limit - was recorded in the eight-month-old Airportlink.

The highest speeds clocked in the Clem7 were 163km/h in January - more than double the 80km/h limit - and 165km/h last year.

Under current regulations, motorists can only be fined once per trip, regardless of how many times they may be detected speeding.

State Traffic Support Branch Acting Superintendent Paul Fogg said the intensive enforcement of the speed limit was necessary in the tunnels.

"Any speeding is of concern, but especially in a tunnel, which is a closed atmosphere and can be difficult for emergency services to access," Supt Fogg said, adding there were no plans to install point-to-point cameras in Airportlink to measure a vehicle's average speed.

Latest data shows an average 23,217 vehicles a day use the Clem7 tunnel, and the Airportlink averages 47,000 vehicles a day.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/q...-1226600981962

[Burnout]

Many people I've spoken to out this way, don't use the tunnels for the reasoning behind these speed cameras, I stopped using them myself after it was revealed motorists were being booked for speeding just as electronic speed signs were lowered in the tunnel due to some perceived traffic issue.
I just use the Logan/Gateway instead.

[jpd80]

Like a lot of others, I've have discovered that instead of using the Clem 7, just get on the riverside express way,
up the city-valley bypass and you're at Windsor in no time, the Clem 7 is not worth the hassle.

Sydney seems to have blocked off effective alternatives to using city tunnels and tollways,
that appears to be the main difference between Sydney and Brisbane....

[2011G6E]

Once again, the all-important question needs to be asked:

If they are catching hundreds of speeders a week in those tunnels, are there a corresponding rise in the number of crashes you could expect given the traffic volumes? If no, then do as they do in, for example, Italy, and LET THE TRAFFIC FLOW, and only worry about the odd idiot here and there doing some truly ludicrous speeds.
If there are no accidents in the tunnels, then it shows the limits are way too low, as obviously they are safe for higher speeds.

Keeping the traffic flowing should be the first and highest priority for road operators.

[Matty4]

Just out of curiosity, for those you you who state that you don't use the tunnels because of the number of cameras, if there were no cameras in the tunnels, would you then use it?

This may be an avenue that the owners of the tunnels could take to the Govt to help it start earning more money...

[ZedTee]

My 2 cents, I live in the Country so I don't often see any fixed cameras, but do see the occasional roadside speed camera or the occasional cop on duty. When I do drive to the city (usually down the Hume Freeway) I do pass the 5 or 6 sets of speed cameras they have on the bit I drive down, and I do get that feeling of "oh ****, camera here, stare at speedo till your past it" Which is a wee bit annoying. But it's pretty much a case of if you don't speed, you aint gunna get done speeding! People whinging about getting done speeding should slow down! Even if you don't think the speed limit is high enough for a certain stretch of road (Calder freeway outbound, 80k's all the way to the twin BP's is just ********** silly on that quality/size of road), you still have to obey it! Don't whinge when you get booked! Just my thoughts!

[FGX-351]

They really need to be spending less money on silly cameras and more on the Bruce highway for motorists and especially truckies that have the displeasure of driving it north of Gympie.

How many cameras do they need, if a motorist can only be done once per trip in the tunnel & since exact locations are unknown do they really need 8?

As it stands they've just about got more cameras than a catwalk!

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

That's a lot of people breaking the law every day.

Glad the cameras are there, hopefully they will assist in getting a few of the people unable to drive a car according to the road rules off the road.

[ZedTee]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

That's a lot of people breaking the law every day.

Glad the cameras are there, hopefully they will assist in getting a few of the people unable to drive a car according to the road rules off the road.

Exactly, That is spot on mate!

[GTP owner]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

That's a lot of people breaking the law every day.

Glad the cameras are there, hopefully they will assist in getting a few of the people unable to drive a car according to the road rules off the road.

No it doesn't! It just means that there are lot more driving around without a licence.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Once again, the all-important question needs to be asked:

If they are catching hundreds of speeders a week in those tunnels, are there a corresponding rise in the number of crashes you could expect given the traffic volumes? If no, then do as they do in, for example, Italy, and LET THE TRAFFIC FLOW, and only worry about the odd idiot here and there doing some truly ludicrous speeds.
If there are no accidents in the tunnels, then it shows the limits are way too low, as obviously they are safe for higher speeds.

Keeping the traffic flowing should be the first and highest priority for road operators.

it's a good point. if you are paying for the privilege of using the road, why not make it more attractive to use (as opposed to making other roads worse).

[EVLKNEVL]

Originally Posted by ZedTee

People whinging about getting done speeding should slow down!

Who has posted on here whinging about getting done speeding?

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

That's a lot of people breaking the law every day.

Glad the cameras are there, hopefully they will assist in getting a few of the people unable to drive a car according to the road rules off the road.

As has already been mentioned, there is an issue in this case with people being wrongfully booked as the electronically controlled speed limits are reduced.

[steve.zissou]

Originally Posted by ZedTee

stare at speedo till your past it" Which is a wee bit annoying. But it's pretty much a case of if you don't speed, you aint gunna get done speeding!

and while your staring at your speedo to ensure you dont go 3kmh over the limit a kid runs out on the road - then what - when you hit him he'll survive because you were doing 100kph not 103kph.

any one that thinks speed cameras are about road safety is the reason this country is going nanny state.

over half of all speeding fines issued in NSW are for offences in the lowest category; 0-10 km/h over the speed limit.

Less than 1% of fines issued have been for speeds greater than 30km/h over the speed limit.

and if they worked where's the drastic reduction in accidents (remember the greatest reason for reduced accidents and fatalities are better cars (ABS etc)

and if they worked are reducing people speeding - wouldnt speed camera revue drop following installation as people slowed down to avoid fines? but that doesn't happen - speed camera revenue per camera remains fairly consant. so in effect speed cameras dont slow people do they

[2011G6E]

The big issue is this: yes, they should have cameras in the tunnel...for safety reasons, to monitor for breakdowns, people doing stupid things, slow drivers folding up the flow of traffic, and accidents.

However, in a closed environment like a tunnel especially, you want people staring out their windscreen, not at their speedos or scanning the roof for ever-changing speed signs.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

That's a lot of people breaking the law every day.

Glad the cameras are there, hopefully they will assist in getting a few of the people unable to drive a car according to the road rules off the road.

Its probably not worth coming here preaching your a model citizen, im sure you have broken the law at some stage.

Do you live in Brisbane? Do you know the tunnel/road or the issues with some fines that have been given?

Heaven forbid you pull alongside someone doing 64 in a 60 zone, you might spontaneously combust and everyone will die.

[Nic85]

It's no wonder the company who built the tunnel went broke when there's friggen 10 speed cameras in the thing. No one wants to use it because they're all afraid of getting done doing 83 in the 80 zone. It's so easy to do too on those couple of downhill sections in the tunnel. Get a couple cars beside you, concentrate on watching other traffic, check your mirrors, look back to the speedo and bam, you're doing 85km/h, ticket time.

They had some copper on the news the other night defending the stance on not revealing the locations of the cameras in the tunnels. He had the biggest ***** eating grin on his face I've ever seen. Completely smug a-hole.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Nic85

It's no wonder the company who built the tunnel went broke

you'd think once bitten, twice shy right?? wrong! the company that built the second tunnel also went broke. i believe they are working on a third and probably with similar consequences. the numpties worked it out using a too high amount of traffic and then compounded the problem with the tolls set excessively high. you'd think after the first one they would adjust the tender accordingly next time round but no, same thing happens quite comical really.

there was an article in the courier mail recently where a person successfully argued against a fine received via a variable speed camera because the camera hadn't been calibrated/tested at the new limit. luckily for govco it was only a small article well in to the paper, as thats a can of worms if i ever saw one.

Originally Posted by ZedTee

When I do drive to the city (usually down the Hume Freeway) I do pass the 5 or 6 sets of speed cameras they have on the bit I drive down, and I do get that feeling of "oh ****, camera here, stare at speedo till your past it" Which is a wee bit annoying.

CRUISE CONTROL!!!

want to know what i find annoying. people who drive cars that keep their cruise control in 'as new' condition by never using it.

i've just been in brisbane for a month and travelled to sunshine coast and gold coast whilst there. heading north of brisbane is actually pretty good. most keep left, most keep speed constant etc. travelling south on the pacific is a nightmare. people drive anywhere from 70 - 140 in the 110 zone. i sit on cruise nearly every time i drive, regardless of speed zones. numerous times i'd merge on to the pacific motorway and have a good kilometre of free road in front of me, hit the cruise up to 110 only to get passed by someone who then likes your lane better and slows down, or to gain on traffic that is incapable of maintaining the signposted speed.

don't get me started on all those who 'back off' or slow down whenever they pass a camera, even if they aren't speeding. does my head in.

[Werd.]

Originally Posted by prydey

don't get me started on all those who 'back off' or slow down whenever they pass a camera, even if they aren't speeding. does my head in.

Sorry but us P platers can't take the risk, one fine and we lose our license and our jobs, better to just back off to 50 rather than risk getting fined due to speedo error or something.

[2011G6E]

I notice a lot of people saying "cruise control".

Yes, in the country, on rural highways and major highways...but the problem we are talking about is suburban areas and tunnels...not the place you should even be considering using cruise control at all if you have a grain of common sense...

Even on the highway you can't use it all the time, not these days...driving from our home town down to Bundaberg on Friday during the day, I could count on one hand the number of times the cruise control was on for longer than five minutes or so...the heavy traffic, slightly slower drivers, trucks, etc, meant you can't just set it and leave it on...I was "driving" through most of the areas I know speed cameras are likely to be on the Capricorn and Bruce highway and honestly can say I was watching the road less and my speedo more in those areas...now that's safe...

Cruise control for most people has become an interesting toy...something you can use sparingly now and then if the road happens to be reasonably empty for five minutes.

[EVLKNEVL]

Originally Posted by Werd.

Sorry but us P platers can't take the risk, one fine and we lose our license and our jobs, better to just back off to 50 rather than risk getting fined due to speedo error or something.

Sorry, but that's a dangerous way to drive.

And therein lies the problem. If speed cameras are causing the less experienced drivers to do things more dangerous than creep over the speed limit by a few clicks, then the speed cameras should be abolished.

No offence to you intended mate, but thanks for demonstrating yet another fundamental flaw to the speed trap system.

[Werd.]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Cruise control for most people has become an interesting toy...something you can use sparingly now and then if the road happens to be reasonably empty for five minutes.

If you're doing around 100KMH and not passing or getting passed by trucks and just cruising in the left lane (F3) cruise can work fine and be left on for 20-30 minutes at a time before needing to be touched, at 110KMh though you're always going to run into morons doing 90 in the middle and right lanes which makes it a fairly pointless affair.

[gtxb67]

i live, drive and speed in the most dangerous state of all and don't get caught - if people know they are in the tunnel, why are they speeding in it

yes, they are for revenue, but most people make sure that their revenue raising is not even the slightest bit challenging

[prydey]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I notice a lot of people saying "cruise control".

Yes, in the country, on rural highways and major highways...but the problem we are talking about is suburban areas and tunnels...not the place you should even be considering using cruise control at all if you have a grain of common sense...

Even on the highway you can't use it all the time, not these days...driving from our home town down to Bundaberg on Friday during the day, I could count on one hand the number of times the cruise control was on for longer than five minutes or so...the heavy traffic, slightly slower drivers, trucks, etc, meant you can't just set it and leave it on...I was "driving" through most of the areas I know speed cameras are likely to be on the Capricorn and Bruce highway and honestly can say I was watching the road less and my speedo more in those areas...now that's safe...

Cruise control for most people has become an interesting toy...something you can use sparingly now and then if the road happens to be reasonably empty for five minutes.

sorry but i disagree 100%. i use cruise all day every day. in town, on the highway, it doesn't matter. the buttons are right there on the wheel. most times if i have at least a couple of car lengths in front, i have it on. the mentality that it is only there for the open road is very 1960's. cruise systems these days are incredibly easy to use and it then allows you to not have to worry about your speed creeping up or getting done by a 'safety' camera.

i drove from the gold coast to brisbane on the pacific motorway in peak hour (5pm) many times and managed to have my cruise on the whole way, even though i was surrounded by traffic.

perhaps if you learnt how to use it better, you could spend more time looking out the windscreen!

[gtxb67]

my cruise control has a reset button, so a quick tap on the clutch pedal allows me to slow down and the reset button gets me back up to speed

oh wait - most of my driving is done in the coupe or a 121 jellybean and neither have cruise control (one even has mph on the speedo) . . . how the hell do i not get fined; or to put it the correct way, how the hell does everyone else get fined

[prydey]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

or a 121 jellybean

you are aware this is a public forum, right?

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I notice a lot of people saying "cruise control".

Yes, in the country, on rural highways and major highways...but the problem we are talking about is suburban areas and tunnels...not the place you should even be considering using cruise control at all if you have a grain of common sense...

Even on the highway you can't use it all the time, not these days...driving from our home town down to Bundaberg on Friday during the day, I could count on one hand the number of times the cruise control was on for longer than five minutes or so...the heavy traffic, slightly slower drivers, trucks, etc, meant you can't just set it and leave it on...I was "driving" through most of the areas I know speed cameras are likely to be on the Capricorn and Bruce highway and honestly can say I was watching the road less and my speedo more in those areas...now that's safe...

Cruise control for most people has become an interesting toy...something you can use sparingly now and then if the road happens to be reasonably empty for five minutes.

Agreed, when i had Cruise it was only used on the highway. It was never used in town or on the way to work.
Now i dont have it, i have still done 5 Bris-Albury trips and not had one fine. I dont miss it either to be honest

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Keeping the traffic flowing should be the first and highest priority for road operators.

No, safety should ALWAYS be the first & hishest priority!!

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

No, safety should ALWAYS be the first & hishest priority!!

Which is keeping the traffic flowing.

The overwhelming majority of crashes occur when traffic is chaotic regardless of whether this is due to weather, contention or any other external influence including speed cameras.

ANYTHING that artificially attempts to change natural behavior of a system introduces chaos to that system.

[prydey]

when it comes to road stats, the only ones we ever hear are the fatalities.

i wonder how the statistics have trended for crashes esp minor bingles. cars are much safer now, speed limits seem to be getting lowered, but i bet peoples concentration and awareness are also at all time lows.

it wouldn't surprise me if stats showed that there are actually MORE crashes now than ever before, just less fatalities.

when peoples attention is focused everywhere but looking out the windscreen, its no surprise really.

the notion that obeying the limit makes you a safe driver is negligent in my opinion.

[gtxb67]

the only part of the road system that works is the fines that are handed out

the powers that be have no idea on how to make the roads safer
the average driver has no idea on how to be a safe driver

the fines are the only thing that work the way they are intended - for revenue
and round and round and round we go - what about the xr8 guys . . . who would buy one if ford made one