Expiation: worth fighting?

[abrogard]

I wait for the red turn arrow to go out. The say I've broke the law.

Anyone know the exactitude of it?

They say

"We advise that the red light camera will only take a photograph of a vehicle if it crosses the stop line and is entering the pedestrian crossing or intersection whilst the traffic light is red. A second photograph is taken following a short delay to establish that the vehicle continued to enter the pedestrian crossing or intersection. "

but in fact the traffic light not red. You can see it is green. The turn arrow is red. I am in the habit of pulling up there and waiting, the quicker to get around.
They have no photo of my going around while it is red, only of me waiting.
That's me in the grey mitsubishi waiting. Two prior pics show me in the same place.
1. What exactly is the law?
2. If I have a show what's the cost/risk of going to court and arguing it?

Very well might be the wrong venue for such queries in which case, sorry, please direct me to a better if you know of one.

[Fordman1]

Next time stay behind the line like the Nissan ( if you’re turning ) , if they say the fine is because you are turning on a red signal, you’re cooked.

If your argument is you are going straight try arguing with them, and see where that leads, it doesn’t look like you are going straight unfortunately.

[abrogard]

thanks for that. nope, I was turning right.. I do it all the time, right there.. in that way..
but I don't turn on the red. I turn when it changes, when it goes out.

is the law that the right turn lane must not move into the intersection but all the other lanes can?

[PG2]

You are not allowed to enter the intersection on a red arrow if you are in that lane.

Also, going straight ahead out of that lane is an offence.

[BENT_8]

No disrespect intended, but how long have you been driving for as thats breaking the road laws every day of the week no matter how efficient you think doing it makes you.
Infact im fairly familiar with that intersection, the turn signals are staggered and the river bound straight ahead and right turn goes before the traffic away from the rive. So the right turn arrow had already changed to red for your sequence and wouldnt be going out as the oncoming traffic was about to flow at which point the river bound straight ahead green would go red to allow the oncoming right turn towards mannum to go green.
This is why the 4 second phase shows 'amber' as all lanes in the river bound direction we're being stopped.

You simply cant cross the white line whilst the turn arrow is red.
Pay up and save your time and additional costs

[abrogard]

Ah well that seems to sort it out. I actually can't swear to exactly what I do and when in connection with the light change sequences. All I know really is that I do some waiting for red signals to change.
Looks like that must be wrong inasmuch as I shouldn't be out there waiting for them to change...
So yep, looks like I've habitually been breaking the laws...
That bit is pretty unequivocal and has the ring of authoritarian text about it, like from some rule book:

"You are not allowed to enter the intersection on a red arrow if you are in that lane.
Also, going straight ahead out of that lane is an offence. "

O.K.

Thanks for all that. $600 for a victimless crime. par for the course today. Keeps a whole swag of clerks in a job and that's what really matters isn't it?

[stock1991]

the saying goes "Can't fight city hall." my fine was 500 for doing 10 km over the limit. 60km in a 50

[abrogard]

did you miskey that or something? you did 50K in a 60 zone? you mean 60 in a 50?
Yep, that'd be a victimless crime.
It's all down to robotic judgements according to the letter of the law.
The spirit of the law is long gone. And I'm not talking airy fairy tripe, either. I simply mean the spirit of the law is to serve the people and that is long gone.
It is.
the Americans led the way, via Hollywood which is what created this insane 'reality' we all inhabit now. Where 250,000 men dying is hardly worth watching on youtube.
What the Americans did, you might remember, was makes series after series and movie after movie where the sheriff and the DA and the private detective and the super hero cops, were all 'serving the law, ma'am'. 'I just serve the law'.
And 'no one is above the law' and so on.
Whereas actually the law is there to serve us. And we, collectively, are all above the law for we create it.
Follow some law cases in the courts and see it created every day just as the banks create money.
Yup.
That's where we're at.
Good fun, eh.

[stock1991]

I made the mistake

[stock1991]

So yeah, costs money to fight in court, hence the saying. I'd pay it and , well I have paid many fines. I think finally I have learned. Been a while , now I have a full book of points to lose, look out

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by abrogard

but in fact the traffic light not red. You can see it is green. The turn arrow is red. I am in the habit of pulling up there and waiting, the quicker to get around.
They have no photo of my going around while it is red, only of me waiting.
That's me in the grey mitsubishi waiting. Two prior pics show me in the same place.

But, you're waiting in the middle of the intersection. If they ever changed the traffic light sequence you'd be in the deep ****

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by stock1991

the saying goes "Can't fight city hall." my fine was 500 for doing 10 km over the limit. 60km in a 50

What state are you in? in VIC 15-24 over nets you $370

[stock1991]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

What state are you in? in VIC 15-24 over nets you $370

city of churches it was 400seventy something

[Trendseeker]

Originally Posted by abrogard

So yep, looks like I've habitually been breaking the laws...

Nah, if this is your first ticket, you haven’t been breaking the law in any intersection with a camera. If you’ve had no previous tickets for a long time, write a letter and seek leniency on the fine. It costs nothing and you might get lucky.

[XR Martin]

I bet you they also sent a fine to the Hilux driver for not have a cover on his load.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by abrogard

Ah well that seems to sort it out. I actually can't swear to exactly what I do and when in connection with the light change sequences. All I know really is that I do some waiting for red signals to change.
Looks like that must be wrong inasmuch as I shouldn't be out there waiting for them to change...
So yep, looks like I've habitually been breaking the laws...
That bit is pretty unequivocal and has the ring of authoritarian text about it, like from some rule book:

"You are not allowed to enter the intersection on a red arrow if you are in that lane.
Also, going straight ahead out of that lane is an offence. "

O.K.

Thanks for all that. $600 for a victimless crime. par for the course today. Keeps a whole swag of clerks in a job and that's what really matters isn't it?

$600, is that all.
One of our guys got done turning right behind a truck, crossed the white line after the turn light had turned red but couldn't see it as it was obstructed by the truck...$2400

[arm79]

Not worth fighting or questioning at all. You entered the intersection on a red light, even if you were stopped and patiently waiting for the light to go green.

You're not supposed to enter the intersection until it's clear to drive though it anyways, even if the light is green.

The black Prado would have copped a fine as well.

Pay up and be happy in the knowledge you have become a paid statistic!

[abrogard]

i'll never be happy until some sense returns to the scene
I had a quick look through the handbook. I don't see that exact line about the right turn lane and all... just for interests sake, where is it, what is it?
you know we say 'they're insane' but the thing is they are us. it's just one of us going to work and pushing buttons and sending out fines.
just like those poor boys in Ukraine the people do it to themselves... we are doing it to ourselves...

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Trendseeker

Nah, if this is your first ticket, you haven’t been breaking the law in any intersection with a camera. If you’ve had no previous tickets for a long time, write a letter and seek leniency on the fine. It costs nothing and you might get lucky.

nope. not for a traffic light offence. you can get a warning for low range speeding if you have a good record, but that's all

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

$600, is that all.
One of our guys got done turning right behind a truck, crossed the white line after the turn light had turned red but couldn't see it as it was obstructed by the truck...$2400

Is that to the company and then it drops when the driver is nominated, or is it that high because of something else like a type of vehicle etc..?

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by abrogard

I had a quick look through the handbook. I don't see that exact line about the right turn lane and all... just for interests sake, where is it, what is it?

There is a solid line at the lights, you wait there until it's you turn to turn right.

Where you are stopped is the middle of the intersection.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by abrogard

i'll never be happy until some sense returns to the scene
I had a quick look through the handbook. I don't see that exact line about the right turn lane and all... just for interests sake, where is it, what is it?
you know we say 'they're insane' but the thing is they are us. it's just one of us going to work and pushing buttons and sending out fines.
just like those poor boys in Ukraine the people do it to themselves... we are doing it to ourselves...

I know you're in SA and not Vic, but this is what I could find quickly for Viccos. I'm sure that SA would have very similar, if not exartly the same, wording for their rules.

Traffic lights
If you are facing a traffic light that is:

red, you must stop and don't go into the intersection
yellow, you must stop unless you can't stop safely
green, you can go through the intersection if there is room for your vehicle on the other side. You are not allowed to block the intersection.

Reference: https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safe...20other%20side.

[raised by monkeys]

I have a similar issue.

I was recorded by speed camera doing 58km in a 50km zone. The road is a large road and there are no signs to indicate. IN addition, it was a gov work vehicle, im a child protection worker and sending a child to live with family and he needed to take documentation with him on a flight that morning.

I sought leaniency on compassionate grounds given the circumstances coupled with the fact the speed of the road was unknown.

The response from police was i failed to keep within the speed designated by signage. This is where i challenged again, based on their response (keep within the speed designated by signage), to advise there is no signage. They avoided this in their follow up response to basically say fight in court or pay the fine. Ive paid the fine. Im a little salty. But im not sure its worth the hassle. I will acknowlede i can be stubborn so im never actually sure whether im towing the line of being stubborn VS to do whats right.

[arm79]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

Where you are stopped is the middle of the intersection.

Stopped on top of a pedestrian crossing no less.

What about the poor pedestrians?????

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

From the SA Gov website:

56—Stopping for a red traffic light or arrow
(1) A driver approaching or at traffic lights showing a red traffic light must stop—
(a) if there is a stop line at or near the traffic lights—as near as practicable to, but
before reaching, the stop line; or
(b) if there is a stop here on red signal sign at or near the traffic lights, but no stop
line—as near as practicable to, but before reaching, the sign; or
(c) if there is no stop line or stop here on red signal sign at or near the traffic
lights—as near as practicable to, but before reaching, the nearest or only
traffic lights,
and must not proceed past the stop line, stop here on red signal sign or nearest or only
traffic lights (as the case may be) until the traffic lights show a green or flashing
yellow traffic light or no traffic light.

My bold.

Reference: https://www.legislation.sa.gov.au/__...4.205.auth.pdf

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Is that to the company and then it drops when the driver is nominated, or is it that high because of something else like a type of vehicle etc..?

Heavy vehicle, sent to company and redirected to on duty driver via stat dec.
$1800 fine, $600 victims of crime levy I believe, driver received it within a month of offence.

Will need to do 2 full weeks work of nett income to cover it, poor bugger was devastated but again, dont cross the line until you know you are allowed to do so, should have stopped until preceeding obstruction had cleared to see the light.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by raised by monkeys

I have a similar issue.

I was recorded by speed camera doing 58km in a 50km zone. The road is a large road and there are no signs to indicate. IN addition, it was a gov work vehicle, im a child protection worker and sending a child to live with family and he needed to take documentation with him on a flight that morning.

I sought leaniency on compassionate grounds given the circumstances coupled with the fact the speed of the road was unknown.

The response from police was i failed to keep within the speed designated by signage. This is where i challenged again, based on their response (keep within the speed designated by signage), to advise there is no signage. They avoided this in their follow up response to basically say fight in court or pay the fine. Ive paid the fine. Im a little salty. But im not sure its worth the hassle. I will acknowlede i can be stubborn so im never actually sure whether im towing the line of being stubborn VS to do whats right.

You wont win, in SA a road without a designated speed limit in force is considered an urban 50 zone.
They do this to avoid the expense of sign posting every backstreet etc. So if you turn off lets say South Rd which is 60, into a side road devoid of a signed limit it automatically resorts to 50.
The wording they use is '50km/hr in built up area unless otherwise sign posted"

[BENT_8]

Had an interesting experience this morning, travelling to work south bound where Northern Expressway becomes Northern connector at Waterloo Corner SA.
Fog was like pea soup, road full of cars all doing below speed limit.
Come up to Pt Wakefield Rd on ramp and a white BMW M3 comes flying out of on ramp and dives between me and preceeding car and into middle lane of 3.
Right at that spot is a black or dark grey van with magnifying square on back glass, standard camera vehicle. It starts triggering the red flashes obviously picking up old mate in BMW but he moved across so quick I reckon it probably only got the rest of us and they'll send us all a fine for his efforts.
Tax time coming up, they always smash the roads at this time of year as fines will go overdue just as returns start rolling in.
For the record I haven't had a traffic infringement since 1997 and I drive 1000-1500km/week on average for work etc.

[xkxlxm]

I once had a speeding fine waived after I applied for a review; I was probably caught for 108/109 on a 100 limit freeway and my licence had been clean for several years at least.

I know someone who got done for driving an unregistered car. He had not paid the renewal. The fine was over $1000.00, maybe $1300.00 or so (?).

He got the fine waived after asking for a review. He would have been driving for 40 years or so at the time of the offence and possibly had never had an infringement notice. Still, I was surprised that it got waived.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

I bet you they also sent a fine to the Hilux driver for not have a cover on his load.

"Cover your Load" You might find that law only exists in the Police state of NSW. (ACT ???)

Here in Victoria, the law states "Secure your Load" which basically means as long as the load has no means of falling off the back.

https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safe...ring-your-load

I can load my truck full of granite and as long as its "Secure" within the trays sides, headboard and rear its legal.

Though most quarries (there rules) will not allow me to leave the scales without it having a cover.

Looking at this, I think SA is the same, recommended but not the law.

https://www.police.sa.gov.au/__data/...Fact-Sheet.pdf