Red vs Blue - Politics in Forums

Crazy Dazz · 30-06-2013, 10:32 PM

Something I have observed in many different forums is just how stuck in out-dated traditions many Australian men are when it comes to politics. There are four attitudes that I find particularly annoying:
1) I'm an “A,” so I MUST vote for party “X.” (Where A can be just about any irrelevant label.)
2) I support Party X, so ALL their leaders are Great Australians, ALL their policies are wonderful and what's best for the universe, and I will support them with my dying breath. Of course ALL the leaders of Party Y are liars and transvestites, and ALL their policies are the epitome of evil.
3) Even though it is universally acknowledged and accepted that my party is strongest on ROUND issues and their opposition strongest on SQUARE issues. I will argue til I'm blue in the face that my party is better for the SQUAREness of Australia.
4) I am passionate about Widgets, I have devoted my entire life to Widgetism, and I bleed Widget. Yet when party X plans to ban Widgets, and party Y plans to invest Billions in Widget centres, I make up all sorts of spurious stories about how my Party’s aggressive ANTI-widget stance is actually the best thing since sliced bread.

Now in case you can’t tell, all of the forgoing descriptors are generic and can be applied to just about anyone and any party. Nor does anything there apply to directly to any current issue relevant to this forum.

This thread is about men’s irrational devotion to voting one way or the other, irrespective of current affairs. Please feel free to debate, but a warning to us all; starting saying “Party X is better because…” or otherwise turn this into a slanging match, and I predict this thread’s (limited) lifespan will be reduced dramatically.

The one specific thing I will say is this: I am passionate about the Falcon, the Australian Automotive Industry, and Australian Manufacturing Employment in General.
(I understand that you can be a motoring enthusiast and even a FORD enthusiast, without sharing those passions, that’s just where I'm at.)
Personally, in regards to this, I see no major difference between the attitudes and policies of the major parties. (And please don’t start with “Party X is better because…” I'm simply stating MY personal opinion with which the MAJORITY will disagree one way or the other.)
If one of the major parties clearly, demonstrably, and dramatically changed their policies to drastically protect Australian Manufacturing & Jobs, THAT WOULD be a vote-winner for ME.

Lotte · 30-06-2013, 10:39 PM

This can also be applied to... all of life

I drive a holden/ford therefore it is better and all people that drive them are better etc etc. It's also not limited to men.

mum told me today that one day she was talking politics (as our family is wont to do) with her parents and she asked gran who she voted for and why. When she said 'x', because your father does, and he must be right, grandpa looked shocked as all hell and told her that wasn't a decent reason to vote for them

(albeit, he would have told her why she wrong had she said party 'y').

Personally I don't vote for either/any party. I vote for policies (or don't vote for a lack of decent ones as it may be). I don't drive a car because it's got a blue badge, I drive it because I trust it, and I've driven and owned others.

At the moment in relation to policies which are important to me it comes down to: manufacturing and jobs; urban sprawl control (and therefore reducing the amount of arable land we're selling off for development); sustainability, both environmentally and economically; education; and poverty. Will I find a party that fits my personal little state of euphoria? I doubt it, unless I run for it myself (lulz, can't be stuffed with that, but I'm tempted). So it's about working out which party will do the least amount of the opposite to what ideals I have.

Mickxr8 · 01-07-2013, 05:56 AM

Raise the voting age to 30 for a while ? ( before you scoff , think about it ? , young people are getting bought out and misled by gifts and bonuses so will vote for who ever "promises" more ? , no offence to smart under 30`s but bogan shaz and dazz count for a lot of this age group and probably don`t care much . A more Demanding voter base will hopefully bring a better class of politicians to the table ? , not holding my breath ... We have a Great country here but it can only cope with so much selling off/out till it busts , Many a good young,smart and well intentioned pollie just gets eaten by the rot that is imbedded in our "leaders and puppet people" , sighs and dreads sept 14th :( , ( more to add but see if the thread stays open lol ) , Ford aside , we need to keep local business alive ? , how ? , 64k Q

Lotte · 01-07-2013, 06:37 AM

I disagree, it's the late twenties to mid thirties who are pushing for a better class of politicians and want the scourge gone. Too many parents and what not of my gen tell us it's pointless and we just need to vote for the lesser of two evils, or worse, actually think either one of our major parties is a solution.

**redxm** · 01-07-2013, 07:44 PM

option 5 - vote 1 homer simpson.

Lotte · 01-07-2013, 08:20 PM

I'm possibly voting hodor this year

Barnaby · 01-07-2013, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotte

I disagree, it's the late twenties to mid thirties who are pushing for a better class of politicians and want the scourge gone. Too many parents and what not of my gen tell us it's pointless and we just need to vote for the lesser of two evils, or worse, actually think either one of our major parties is a solution.

Gen Y?

Lotte · 01-07-2013, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barnaby

Gen Y?

Technically yes.

Barnaby · 01-07-2013, 08:52 PM

As far as political awareness goes, there is good evidence around (ABS did a study...tried to find a link to it) that you are in the minority for your generation.

There was some bizarre data there like the majority thought that the right to vote was very important yet democracy wasn't? Don't know what that's all about...

Lotte · 01-07-2013, 09:03 PM

And? Doesn't change the fact a lot of people's parents I know vote blindly for a party "because they always have" or their "family always has". Hell, I know some boomers who tell their kids who to vote for, not explain the system, who to vote for.

Democracy in this country is a joke. Bipartisan politics is not a democracy, yet we're told it is.

My statement was in reply to raising the voting age to 30, tongue in cheek as it,may have been, or not, ignorance runs across the board.

Additionally, I've already heard of this study, I can pretty much tell you now, unless they do a census on it, I'll accept it with a grain of salt. Statistics when determined from a portion of a population can lie.

Barnaby · 01-07-2013, 09:13 PM

Yep, I agree. I just don't think your generation could be that dumb!

Politics - team left, team right or team apathy. None of them can do wrong in the eye of the beholder.

There is a difference between progressive and conservative though...but that's another story.

Lotte · 01-07-2013, 09:17 PM

Believe me, we aren't. And those that are we're never given the information from their elders to understand all of it (refer, telling the kids who to vote for).

Barnaby · 01-07-2013, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotte

Believe me, we aren't. And those that are we're never given the information from their elders to understand all of it (refer, telling the kids who to vote for).

Maybe the boomers had the same issue?

Lotte · 01-07-2013, 09:33 PM

It's quite possible, but the way the issues are seen to be gen y specific, you wouldn't think so.

Spudz27 · 01-07-2013, 09:43 PM

My gran was party x all the way, as was/is my mum, my dad also was (he changed but I do not no why nor care) as an 18yr old I voted party x as it was the way my gran voted plus my gran although x party only, studied politics at uni and was very knowlegable, it was always a pleasure to go to grans and talk politics. Anyhow her knowledge and enthusiasm was instilled in me and I learnt to vote on policies etc. Sadly I am now in a situation where neither party interests me, nor do I trust them. So voting will be tough this time round.

Lotte · 01-07-2013, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spudz27

My gran was party x all the way, as was/is my mum, my dad also was (he changed but I do not no why nor care) as an 18yr old I voted party x as it was the way my gran voted plus my gran although x party only, studied politics at uni and was very knowlegable, it was always a pleasure to go to grans and talk politics. Anyhow her knowledge and enthusiasm was instilled in me and I learnt to vote on policies etc. Sadly I am now in a situation where neither party interests me, nor do I trust them. So voting will be tough this time round.

I was brought up similar, minus the studying politics.
I always thought my grandparents were staunch "y", turns out they were staunch "x" like the rest of us, just chose to play devils advocate. Same with mum though I always suspected she was disagreeing on purpose because I knew she had the opposite mindset

made it easier to just look at her and go "Mum, I know youre lying" and walk off.

Crazy Dazz · 02-07-2013, 03:04 AM

I suspect that party devotion DOES become more entrenched with the passage of time. Perhaps part of it is an unwillingness to admit to past mistakes.
(It was often been suggested that the reason many US presidents get a 2nd term, even when faced with unpopularity, is that voters don’t want to say they made a mistake.)

This is not to say that young voters are necessarily “correct” in their reasons for voting, but at least the reasons are contemporary rather than historical.

However for that very reason, I do believe that the voting age should be progressively raised. Unfortunately what I am seeing now with my own children, is a very spoiled generation. They have grown up in the late 90’s and 00’s, a very prosperous time with plentiful employment (in WA) high disposable income (WA) and cheap consumer goods. They are too young to remember recessions we suffered through the late 70’s and 80’s, the AUD at 53c, youth unemployment at 30%, and mortgage rates at 17%. Consequently they are fuelled with glassy-eyed idealism about how the world should be run.
(And that’s a not a criticism aimed at one party over the other, I'm just saying that Australia currently faces a lot of challenges, which will get even harder over the next decade, and politicians should be evaluated over their ability to tackle those challenges rather than on some airy-fairy idealism.)

Lotte · 02-07-2013, 06:42 AM

If you are voting fir what you believe in, then you are voting correctly.

Me first syndrome is a parenting issue, not a political or economical issue, therefore is not a reason to raise the voting age, nor is an opinion on whether the younger gen are voting correctly. At the end of the day: we are the ones that will have to deal with the short and medium term consequences, those before us had their chance and it's arrogant to think someone knows better than someone else due to a generational gap.

As you said yourself, people vote the same because they don't want yo admit their wrong, or they believe it's the best party for the country. Since issues across the board aren't to one generation, why not do away with the voting system (as no one generation can be trusted with the future of this country) and put in place a dictatorship where we have no choice? What's good for the goose is good for the gander so to speak.

Kevxr8Leexr6 · 02-07-2013, 07:03 AM

With the op,s title in mind, politics,religion.footy,cars,and almost any other choices we can make. as parents,we can only give our children advice on what we know. children look up to their parents for guidance and have trust in our judgments. so with this in mind as they grow up,what has been taught will impact on their decisions in their life as well. for most it will be follow the parents,for some it will be venture further to explore new ways .
Each generation has changed and will change forever, and with children staying at school for the extra 2 years bettering education and gaining more knowledge, future politicians may be better equipped to govern than our previous fibro v,s brick, employers v,s employees.

pauljh74 · 02-07-2013, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spudz27

Sadly I am now in a situation where neither party interests me, nor do I trust them. So voting will be tough this time round.

This is what I think of when I think of the current political offerings
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LPdTXRjIKQ

A recent strategy I employ is vote for the Coalition as my seat is a safe Labor seat. I do my part in narrowing the margin and therefore keeping the bugger elected on his toes as a safe seat is a lower priority electorate when it comes to funding. I'm not sold on either LNP or Labor and have switched between the 2 over the years, state and federal

mr smith · 02-07-2013, 07:18 PM

I live in one of the most marginal seats and its great, we get stuff we don't need compared to safe seats. Worst place to live is safe Labour seats, (I have been there) usually the fastest growing areas and are always playing catch up.
When I first started voting I followed my family and the workers I was surrounded with.
If you said you voted Libs especially Jeff Kennett in the early nineties on a union site you wouldn't have made it out the door!
Things are much more open now and I do think we are slowly waking up to the "system"

Franco Cozzo · 02-07-2013, 08:07 PM

My old man was a staunch Liberal supporter and all the way through growing up it was always passed onto us that we should vote Liberal etc.

Then Labor started promising more tools for your trade bonus towards apprentices or something like that so he voted Labor for my sake at the last election.

I asked him this morning who he likes better these days.

He replies he doesn't like both and will donkey vote.

Mum never tells who she voted for.

Bring on the future, the generations before us managed to survive, so I'm sure we'll make it through the bad times too.

Keepleft · 02-07-2013, 08:11 PM

We have one party, but two brand branches you might say?!

Each branch will do as directed, on the rarish times direction is made.

Bossxr8 · 03-07-2013, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr smith

I live in one of the most marginal seats and its great, we get stuff we don't need compared to safe seats. Worst place to live is safe Labour seats, (I have been there) usually the fastest growing areas and are always playing catch up.
When I first started voting I followed my family and the workers I was surrounded with.
If you said you voted Libs especially Jeff Kennett in the early nineties on a union site you wouldn't have made it out the door!
Things are much more open now and I do think we are slowly waking up to the "system"

I live in the most marginal seat in the country. I'm expecting both parties to throw everything but the kitchen sink at us to buy our votes.