GM Situation in US getting worse

**buggerlugs** · 27-02-2009, 07:54 AM

http://www.news.com.au/business/stor...54-462,00.html

prydey · 27-02-2009, 08:29 AM

and Ford's situation
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/s...5-3122,00.html

not good for either company but at least the light at the end of Ford's tunnel is still burning brightly and not starting to flicker like GM's.

**buggerlugs** · 27-02-2009, 08:42 AM

No, that's not real flash either but I'd rather be in Fords position at the moment than GM's............

**FTE217** · 27-02-2009, 09:19 AM

I know from a couple of small local suppliers their last orders from GM was last Nov !

Wally · 27-02-2009, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

No, that's not real flash either but I'd rather be in Fords position at the moment than GM's............

How so? Ford mortgaged all it's assets to raise the US$25b, burnt US$21b of it's cash last year, it's employees are all being offered redundancy, no CPI wage rises, no bonus', the pension fund is only getting half the entitlement, the CEO and Chairman are taking a 30% pay cut, the shares are only =~ US$2, they are currently burning US$1b a month, etc.

If it was your business would you be happy it's playing follow the leader with the other two? I'd rather be in GM's position, because when Ford put their hand up, there is going to be hell to pay and probably some seroius delays in them getting any funding.

XR6_190 · 27-02-2009, 03:45 PM

I think the big difference between Genreal Motors, and Ford is that GM is unsure if they can remain viable, whereas Ford has a viable restructuring plan, including vital new models that will help to point them in the right direction (more so than a sole future plug in hybrid model)

As for the fact you mentioned about Ford losing about $1 Billion a month, GM posted a $30.8 billion loss last year, after a $38.9 Billion loss the year, that equals to $69.7 billion between two years averaging out to $2.9 Billion a month, considerably worse than Ford.

So yes, I too would rather be in Ford's shoes if I had to pick out of the big three. or better yet Hyundai/ Kia's

**Elks** · 27-02-2009, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

How so? .

It will be a last man standing affair. FoMoCo will emerge battered and bruised having ripped billions to do so..

On the other hand GM & Chrysler will be lucky to emerge at all leaving Ford / Toyota / Honda as the other major players left to pick up market share and volume and eventually profitability.

This scenario is by no means certain, but it's my outsiders view.

Wally · 27-02-2009, 06:31 PM

I hear Sol Trujillo is looking to buy all three.

_2:

myts, I think your guess as as good as anyone's at the moment. I'm sure there are those Schadenfreude types who are getting some joy out of the situation, but to me it's a shame to see two great brands in trouble.

vanman_75 · 27-02-2009, 07:50 PM

the brand would have to have a go at rebuilding even if they go bottom up ,the jobs alone are worth reviving these major players, even though to a great extent it being their own fault ....sad to see it affecting so many families .

just hope when the good times come back these companies are smarter with their money,but i doubt it

uranium_death · 27-02-2009, 08:05 PM

Merely a sign of the times.

I am still not convinced that the US will allow its biggest car maker to die...although a threshold will be reached and the point of no return will be realised.

I'm not one for politics, but I don't think Mr. Obama will let GM die right away...backlash isn't exactly what he needs right now.

But either way, it's a sinking ship it appears.

Joe5619 · 27-02-2009, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

How so? Ford mortgaged all it's assets to raise the US$25b, burnt US$21b of it's cash last year, it's employees are all being offered redundancy, no CPI wage rises, no bonus', the pension fund is only getting half the entitlement, the CEO and Chairman are taking a 30% pay cut, the shares are only =~ US$2, they are currently burning US$1b a month, etc.

If it was your business would you be happy it's playing follow the leader with the other two? I'd rather be in GM's position, because when Ford put their hand up, there is going to be hell to pay and probably some seroius delays in them getting any funding.

No-one, no-one can be that silly?? surely?

Anyone & everyone can see Ford is in a better postion than GM.

Gobes32 · 27-02-2009, 09:54 PM

It has been mentioned before that Ford shall be profitable by next year. In fact it was supposed to be this year but the US economy made sure that would not happen. Rest assured that Alan Mulally is the right man to be leading ford right now. His foresight to offload luxury brands in order to have a cash flow is now being praised as genius ever since the financial crisis started hitting the big three hard.

SSbaby · 27-02-2009, 10:32 PM

Ford to be profitable by 2011 at the earliest. That means, if they keep losing money at the current rate, Alan Mulally will be given the proverbial boot.

http://jalopnik.com/5100803/ford-exp...sedan-for-2011

I wouldn't be so confident if I were a supporter of Detroit.

Wally · 27-02-2009, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

No-one, no-one can be that silly?? surely?

..

Hey I got called worse when I predicted the FG wouldn't be a big selller, but really what is it you know that no one else knows? Ford themselves have admitted the bleed can't continue for long.

gtfpv · 28-02-2009, 12:05 AM

this is scary scary stuff . imagine . how many cars are on the planet, yet manufacturers going broke !!!! think about it. the U.S has a population of 240 000 000 people and 1 in 10 employed people work in the automotive related industry, car manufacturers going belly up , would just about send the world back to growning vegetables and raising chickens in your one room tree shack. serious serious stuff !!!!

Yellow_Festiva · 28-02-2009, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtfpv

this is scary scary stuff . imagine . how many cars are on the planet, yet manufacturers going broke !!!! think about it. the U.S has a population of 240 000 000 people and 1 in 10 employed people work in the automotive related industry, car manufacturers going belly up , would just about send the world back to growning vegetables and raising chickens in your one room tree shack. serious serious stuff !!!!

U.S.A.'s pop cracked 300 mil last year.

Re the chickens and vegies.. if that what it takes than so be it. I wonder if there was ever an economic crisis back when people lived off the land, using a barter system instead of 'I owe yous' when people needed something.

Anyway... These economic downturns will show the 'Survival of the fittest'... perhaps just what the world needs???

greenfoam · 28-02-2009, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtfpv

this is scary scary stuff . imagine . how many cars are on the planet, yet manufacturers going broke !!!! think about it. the U.S has a population of 240 000 000 people and 1 in 10 employed people work in the automotive related industry, car manufacturers going belly up , would just about send the world back to growning vegetables and raising chickens in your one room tree shack. serious serious stuff !!!!

Lol funny isn't it because in the end that's the only viable option for civilization. It has to happen sooner or later. Not really scary once you accept that's how it has to be

EgoFG · 28-02-2009, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

Hey I got called worse when I predicted the FG wouldn't be a big selller, but really what is it you know that no one else knows? Ford themselves have admitted the bleed can't continue for long.

That is not disputed - it is just that GM is bleeding worse

greenfoam · 28-02-2009, 01:03 AM

Ford are selling zillions of Focus and Fiestas where they are available. Only problem is they can't make them fast enough. Once they can build them everything will be OK with Ford I'm sure of it (especially once they can sell them in the states). I've had people sending me messages from all over the world (heaps of Americans) asking me how the Fiesta is. They are hanging out to buy one allready and it wont go on sale there for years. You have to give the people what they want and it wasn't and FG, Ford have it right now but they just can't make enough of them

Sprint XR8 · 28-02-2009, 01:06 AM

GM Said to Need Europe Aid or Opel May Be Insolvent

Feb. 27 (Bloomberg) -- General Motors Corp. plans to tell Germany and other European governments it needs 3.3 billion euros ($4.17 billion) in aid within weeks or it may run out of cash to run the Adam Opel GmbH unit, a person familiar with the matter said.

The request, being discussed today in Russelsheim, Germany, by Opel’s supervisory board, would include a GM commitment to invest 3 billion euros to help revamp the unprofitable carmaker, said the person, who asked not to be named because the details aren’t public.

GM is seeking $1.2 billion in annual savings in Europe that may include plant closings to return to profit in the region by 2011, the person said. Detroit-based GM can’t use its $13.4 billion in U.S. loans outside the country, and has spent billions of dollars since 2002 supporting Opel, the person said.

Union workers in Europe protested this week against any GM factory closings, and labor leaders want to separate Opel from the biggest U.S. automaker. GM is seeking as much as $16.6 billion in new U.S. aid to keep operating in its home market.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...Zao&refer=home

gtfpv · 28-02-2009, 01:15 AM

i strongly recommend watching this movie online ( simply stunning) zeitgeist addendum
click on the eye pupil movie . and watch. it is a real shame that wealth and greed pharking ruins everything .http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

barbarian · 28-02-2009, 03:30 AM

I cant believe Opel is bleeding out as well

Ohio XB · 28-02-2009, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Ford to be profitable by 2011 at the earliest. That means, if they keep losing money at the current rate, Alan Mulally will be given the proverbial boot.
.

Not going to happen. Mullaly has made monumental changes at Ford that never would have happened without him. Bill Ford himself couldn't make those changes, that's why he got a guy with a proven track record from outside of the company to do it.

The only reason Ford is losing money now is because nobody is selling cars in any appreciable quantity. As soon as the market turns around the ball will start rolling.

In the dismal sales that have happened in the US Ford has GAINED market share in each of the past 3 months.

If you still think Ford is doomed then go here.....

http://www.media.ford.com/news/

...and read up on what's been happening. This Ford is not the Ford of even 3 years ago.

Steve

Ohio XB · 28-02-2009, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtfpv

this is scary scary stuff . imagine . how many cars are on the planet, yet manufacturers going broke !!!! think about it. the U.S has a population of 240 000 000 people and 1 in 10 employed people work in the automotive related industry, car manufacturers going belly up , would just about send the world back to growning vegetables and raising chickens in your one room tree shack. serious serious stuff !!!!

It's what Democrats want so that we can all depend on the government.

Steve

Ohio XB · 28-02-2009, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenfoam

Ford are selling zillions of Focus and Fiestas where they are available. Only problem is they can't make them fast enough. Once they can build them everything will be OK with Ford I'm sure of it (especially once they can sell them in the states). I've had people sending me messages from all over the world (heaps of Americans) asking me how the Fiesta is. They are hanging out to buy one allready and it wont go on sale there for years. You have to give the people what they want and it wasn't and FG, Ford have it right now but they just can't make enough of them

The Euro Focus and Fiesta will be available in the US next Spring, which is March/April 2010 time frame.

I am one of those Yanks hanging on to buy one. I was waiting for the Fiesta but I think now will have to consider the Focus as well.

BTW our US Focus plant was running 3 shifts, 24 hours a day, to keep up with demand this past summer. I don't know how they are selling now though.

Steve

Ohio XB · 28-02-2009, 09:18 AM

Ok, so now where are the articles on Toyota and Honda?

Oh, they are not having any problems???

Ok.....where are the articles about how Toyota and Honda don't have the problems that the Big3 are having; how they are fine even with the global reduction in car sales???

Steve

**Elks** · 28-02-2009, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

Ok.....where are the articles about how Toyota and Honda don't have the problems that the Big3 are having; how they are fine even with the global reduction in car sales???

Good question Steve. Perhaps they are managing the media a bit better. I know the huge media spend here in Oz buys influence. Not outright control but definately influence.

One of the by-products of Fords relatively modest spend on media (compared to Toyota and Holden) is that the media isn't as afraid of offending them. Whereas they live and die on Toyotas tens of millions of media income.

If you go searching you can find that Tiyota is also losing money and that it's cash reserves are reduced to about US$18b which is about the same as Fords. "Worlds biggest car company cops massive loss" that's no headline

prydey · 28-02-2009, 01:03 PM

toyota have apparently shut down all factories in japan until stocks reduce.

imugli · 28-02-2009, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ohio XB

The Euro Focus and Fiesta will be available in the US next Spring, which is March/April 2010 time frame.

I am one of those Yanks hanging on to buy one. I was waiting for the Fiesta but I think now will have to consider the Focus as well.

BTW our US Focus plant was running 3 shifts, 24 hours a day, to keep up with demand this past summer. I don't know how they are selling now though.

Steve

And that model is based on the one that is now nearly 2 generations old in the rest of the world...

Joe5619 · 28-02-2009, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

Hey I got called worse when I predicted the FG wouldn't be a big selller, but really what is it you know that no one else knows? Ford themselves have admitted the bleed can't continue for long.

Your comments where not a Ford only coment!! The original comment was "Ford is in a better postion than GM".. You said "no they are not!!". And that statement is just plan wrong no matter what you say, it is just wrong.. Now, that is not to say Ford is in a "good position",they are just not as bad as GM currently is